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Toe Hang vs Stroke


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Is the goal to find a putter that matches your stroke or complements your stroke? 

 

For instance, I have a lot of face rotation in my stroke (maybe too much). Thus, I assume I should look for a more face-balanced putter to try and help minimize this natural tendency. Am I correct? 

 

 

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In general lots of rotation would want maximum toe hang. If going by your misses, pulls left will need more toe hang and pushes right will need less to "fix". It seems slightly counterintuitive but what helps me is to think the putter wants to get back to where the toe hangs, thus more toe hang keeps the face open (if that makes sense).

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 The best answer would be to get fitted according to a knowledgeable fitter. The money spent I feel would be worth it since the majority of your round's strokes are with the putter. I have always heard that the more arc in the putting stroke, the more toe hang you need. It may surprise you after you demo several styles to see what actually does fit you.

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I kinda hate the "Oh you have this stroke so you need this neck" talk, it's wrong or at least not good advice. The best neck for your stroke is the one you deliver square at impact, how do you figure that out? Well a fitting is usually best or lots of trial and error but that can get expensive. 

 

For you OP many people would say you need lots of toe hang because of your stroke but in a lot of cases face balance like you mention could probably help your situation to get that face square at impact. 

Lefty

Driver: 9° Ping G410 Plus - HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 6.0

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6 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

I kinda hate the "Oh you have this stroke so you need this neck" talk, it's wrong or at least not good advice. The best neck for your stroke is the one you deliver square at impact, how do you figure that out? Well a fitting is usually best or lots of trial and error but that can get expensive. 

 

For you OP many people would say you need lots of toe hang because of your stroke but in a lot of cases face balance like you mention could probably help your situation to get that face square at impact. 

This

I have a pretty strong arc and was of the mindset that face balanced putters would not suit me at all. On a whim I bough a Bobby Grace high M.O.I. mallet to play around with last year. I tried making a more SBST stroke and would miss right by a mile. Put the club in the closet and went back to my Detour 2.5 which is a slant neck blade. Like a fool I sold the detour even though i putted great with it. Gave the mallet another try this season and finally figured out that if I use an arcing stroke I can start the ball on my line. Have been rolling it very well and think it will be my gamer for a while. Interestingly enough, with the detour, my miss was a pull and i had to feel more of an inside down the line stroke to start it online. I guess what I'm getting at is that the general rule of thumb should be viewed as more of a suggestion. Best bet is to get fitted but if you can't go with whatever starts the ball on your line consistently.

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1 hour ago, naj959 said:

This

I have a pretty strong arc and was of the mindset that face balanced putters would not suit me at all. On a whim I bough a Bobby Grace high M.O.I. mallet to play around with last year. I tried making a more SBST stroke and would miss right by a mile. Put the club in the closet and went back to my Detour 2.5 which is a slant neck blade. Like a fool I sold the detour even though i putted great with it. Gave the mallet another try this season and finally figured out that if I use an arcing stroke I can start the ball on my line. Have been rolling it very well and think it will be my gamer for a while. Interestingly enough, with the detour, my miss was a pull and i had to feel more of an inside down the line stroke to start it online. I guess what I'm getting at is that the general rule of thumb should be viewed as more of a suggestion. Best bet is to get fitted but if you can't go with whatever starts the ball on your line consistently.

 

Yeah don't fight your natural tenancies, if your body naturally putts with a strong arch then master that strong arch, don't try and force your body to do a SBST stroke. That's what I've done this year, just ignore my stroke, go all on feel and line and my putting has been on fire this year, I think this year I've had only one round over 36 putts, the rest low 30s and 2 under 30 putts. So my putts per hole is under 2 this year which is really good. 

 

I hope you stick with what you're doing and see your scores drop and confidence go up.

Lefty

Driver: 9° Ping G410 Plus - HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 6.0

3W: 13.5° Ping G410 LST - Aldila NV 2KXV Green 75X

3H: 19° Ping G410 - Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: 4i - 7i Srixon 585 / 8i - PW Srixon 785 - AMT Tour White S300

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Putter(s): TP Mills Handmade - Kingdom Putter - NCW Boyd - and more. 

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Here are a couple good reads about Tiger Woods and the putters he has used over the years. It appears to be a diverse selection of had shapes, weight, and neck styles. It just goes to show that even the professionals search for that magic putter, using many different formulas until they find the one that suits them.

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/golfweek.usatoday.com/2018/07/02/tiger-woods-happy-after-putter-switch-to-taylormade-model/amp/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/golf.com/gear/putters/every-putter-tiger-woods-used-career/amp/

Edited by hybrid25

>Mavrik Max 12.5* 

>Mavrik 16.5* 4w

>Mavrik Max 4, 5, 6, 7 hybrids

>7--SW Dynacraft Prophet Muscle Blade Irons

>MD5 Jaws 58* W grind LW

>Odyssey Stroke Lab Double Wide Putter

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Best option is to get on a SAM Putt Lab and see what your ARC and ROTATION are, how they work together dictate a more informed choice of Toe Hang, Style of putter and grip size based on how consistent your rotation is.  Everyone has some ARC and some rotation, if anyone tries to manage those two by manipulation of the natural stroke it is just some inconsistent band-aids.  

Take my stroke, 'Slight Arc' with 'Increased Rotation'...some will see slight ARC and go Face Balanced, but what it really means is my hands are rotating the face off the ARC and need a putter that demands my rotation, hence 60* works best for me.  IT is not as simple as ARC to determine toe hang...

 

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over the years I used a lot of different putter, I tend to gravitate to the toe hang putters

I do have a lot of natural rotation in my stroke which isnt  good for putting

I used a less toe hang putter and changed to LHL to get my "face squarer" and less arcbut doesnt feel naturally to me

Gong back to convention grip I find that if I position the ball further in front of my stance with my hands forward I can reduce my arc and rotation

 

Edited by harolease
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I believe you should putt with something that has the mass in close relation to the vertical access.  Old school putters were shorter from heel to toe. Really didnt matter if it was a heel shafted blade if the total length was say 3" you could putt with an arc or straight back straight through.  4" or 4.25" blades make your stroke sometimes look like a steel beam getting hoisted up by a crane on a windy day.

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My putter face stays square to the path throughout the stroke (unless I happen to make a really, really bad stroke...the word that starts with Y and ends with IP) so in theory that matches up to a face-balanced putter. And that's confirmed by Ping little putter app thingy they had a few years ago.

 

In practice, either face-balance or near-face-balanced or a plumber's neck Anser with 20, 30, 40 degrees of toe hang all work equally well for me. The only that that does not work at all is a heel shafted putter, like an 8802 or some of the more modern heel-shafted flange designs. Those just fight me every inch of the way.

 

So I don't think you need a perfect match between how much your face fans open and closed and some exact amount of toe-hang. But you do want to stay away from extremes unless your stroke happens to match up to that extreme. I have an "extreme" low-rotation strokes so an "extreme" face balance is fine. If you have "extreme" rotation, face balance is probably going to feel pretty funny for you.

From August 18, 2021 I will be away from GolfWRX for a while.

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For myself I've found that I can feel and control the face better on a toe-hang putter. Heel-shafted looks the best too me. If the putter is too face-balanced it tends to stay open for my stroke, then if I try to close the face I'll yank it left. It actaully feels like I'm fighting the putter.  

I've just moved back to my old Heel-Shafted Mizuno 0803, it's seen some better days and could do with a major refinish but it's solid. I've won to minor tournaments with it (won a tourney with my old TM B7s as well, A 1/2 toehang)

The bad news - my lovely shiny Bettinardi QB8 only has a small about of toe hang but is more face-balanced than not ? ---- Bettinardi "PLEASE" release a true heel-shafted putter with honeycomb milling again!  

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I did a SAM Puttlab fitting 2 years ago.  Found I had an inside-in stroke, but was playing with a face-balanced TM Ghost Corza, which I thought I loved.  They put me in an Odyssey O-works 7s with a good amount of toe hang (45 deg?) and my putting improved a lot.  I don't feel the toe-hang.  The other thing that I learned is that with my forward press, I was delofting the fact quite a bit and pounding the ball into the surface.  They ordered my putter with 2 deg extra loft.

 

So I found the putter fitting to be well worth what it cost me.

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I look at it a bit different.

 

Is your miss a pull or push?

 

Toe hang for me should be matched to your RATE of face closure. I know people with heavily gated strokes but their miss is a push so less toe hang helps fix that.

 

I know a guy with a relatively straight path but had pull misses and he now he putts lights out with an Odyssey #9.

 

 

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