Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, Sean2 said:

I am still coming over the top. 

Post a video. I suspect that you're not getting the backswing and transition move down. If you get those right it's hard to come over the top even without the cast because you've made so much room for your arms. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by TheDeanAbides
Typo

[MrHateCoffee]

On 11/20/2020 at 9:47 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Isn't feel a strange thing? For me coming from a pivot driven swing this feels completely handsy, and I'm still only working on the transition sit and 9 o'clock with cast b. 

 

Today I had two sessions in the field. I just take two balls and spend half my time chipping with a wedge and the other half split between 9 o'clock swings and slow motion versions of the full NTC. The 9 o'clock is starting to feel like a totally usable shot now and the slomo full swing with cast a is beginning to make sense. 

 

Are you doing 9 o clock with no wrist hinge and only cast B?  I assume you're doing a 9 o clock backswing with a face on clock view, not Monte's top down clock view correct?

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, MrHateCoffee said:

 

Are you doing 9 o clock with no wrist hinge and only cast B?  I assume you're doing a 9 o clock backswing with a face on clock view, not Monte's top down clock view correct?

My apologies. I'm so used to what Monte calls 7 o'clock being 9 o'clock I let that slip in. I'm doing a fully hinged 7 o'clock backswing with cast b. 

[YouDaHamHider]

I'd love to see more examples of how people's swings are coming together. 

 

Reading this thread you get the impression that people have watched the video, had a range session and then immediately been able to shoot a score with their new swing. 

 

If I took this to the course at this stage and actually did the moves I'd be lucky to break 100.

 

What's people's secret to making a successful swing change so quickly? 

 

 

 

[bortass]

1 hour ago, YouDaHamHider said:

I'd love to see more examples of how people's swings are coming together. 

 

Reading this thread you get the impression that people have watched the video, had a range session and then immediately been able to shoot a score with their new swing. 

 

If I took this to the course at this stage and actually did the moves I'd be lucky to break 100.

 

What's people's secret to making a successful swing change so quickly? 

 

 

 

It's not quick, at least for me. What I have seen is overall improvement but not "wow I shot my best ever and am set for life". I have had one solid 9 hole round and stretches of very good holes in others. I also had a complete clunker this last weekend. However my driver seems to be doing fairly well of late. It takes work, which takes time, there is no silver bullet IMO. So I'll keep working on it. Seeing things improve is all I need. Sure it's not spectacular but @MonteScheinblum has said a number of times that swing changes take time. 

[MrHateCoffee]

Does anyone else feel like they're looping the club when they do NTC full speed?  Is that the intent?

[MrHateCoffee]

1 hour ago, YouDaHamHider said:

I'd love to see more examples of how people's swings are coming together. 

 

Reading this thread you get the impression that people have watched the video, had a range session and then immediately been able to shoot a score with their new swing. 

 

If I took this to the course at this stage and actually did the moves I'd be lucky to break 100.

 

What's people's secret to making a successful swing change so quickly? 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you asked.  I think with any new golf drill or method, folks get very excited and will be overly optimistic about initial results.  That's why I try to ask people how things are going a year later.  If they've stuck with it then it's truly a good method.

 

As for myself, I started off really excited thinking I've finally figured it out but have been humbled since then.  I've only been at it for a little over a week however.  But now I'm just going to focus on doing the drills slowly until I get it down.  I expect a long journey ahead.

[bcc624]

1 hour ago, MrHateCoffee said:

Does anyone else feel like they're looping the club when they do NTC full speed?  Is that the intent?

Yes, I have had that feel. I’m also not sure if that is intended, or if I am throwing my arms down too much when I am making the cast with the wrist. If it’s not intended, I’m thinking I might need to slow it down and keep working on the Cast A drills. Anyone else have thoughts?
 

This swing video is an example of where I felt a massive loop and I think it can be seen in real time. Disregard my 20 handicap swing 🤣

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by bcc624

[bdcava]

I'll tell you it's a great drill to stop a backward sway. I bought the video but didn't connect the dots with my swaying problem. Thanks Monte.

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, bcc624 said:

Yes, I have had that feel. I’m also not sure if that is intended, or if I am throwing my arms down too much when I am making the cast with the wrist. If it’s not intended, I’m thinking I might need to slow it down and keep working on the Cast A drills. Anyone else have thoughts?
 

This swing video is an example of where I felt a massive loop and I think it can be seen in real time. Disregard my 20 handicap swing 🤣

 

 

 

What I do notice is that you're locking out your right leg. 

[leftymatt]

6 hours ago, YouDaHamHider said:

I'd love to see more examples of how people's swings are coming together. 

 

Reading this thread you get the impression that people have watched the video, had a range session and then immediately been able to shoot a score with their new swing. 

 

If I took this to the course at this stage and actually did the moves I'd be lucky to break 100.

 

What's people's secret to making a successful swing change so quickly? 

 

 

 

Glad you pointed this out. I agree with what @MrHateCoffee commented in that what you're seeing is people's excitement from early success (myself included). I think this happens because parts of this concept can legitimately give you instant improvement when you focus on 1 or 2 things. The reality is that bad swing habits come back so quickly and I'm speaking from experience. In one of the vids Monte did with Brendon's Be Better Golf series, he said that even he still occasionally fights the urge to pull the handle of the club toward the ball in the down swing

 

I'm willing to bet that the majority here are having to spend more than just a couple range sessions on this concept getting it to stick.

Edited November 24, 2020 by leftymatt

[MonteScheinblum]

4 hours ago, leftymatt said:

Glad you pointed this out. I agree with what @MrHateCoffee commented in that what you're seeing is people's excitement from early success (myself included). I think this happens because parts of this concept can legitimately give you instant improvement when you focus on 1 or 2 things. The reality is that bad swing habits come back so quickly and I'm speaking from experience. In one of the vids Monte did with Brendon's Be Better Golf series, he said that even he still occasionally fights the urge to pull the handle of the club toward the ball in the down swing

 

I'm willing to bet that the majority here are having to spend more than just a couple range sessions on this concept getting it to stick.

Yea, and I have the ability to do it right, shoot a low number and I know better............and I still do it wrong at times.

Edited November 25, 2020 by MonteScheinblum

[berndgeurts]

11 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

Does anyone else feel like they're looping the club when they do NTC full speed?  Is that the intent?

As long as it is with your arms. Watch the efficient swing push hook video. 

[pgetzen]

19 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

Does anyone else feel like they're looping the club when they do NTC full speed?  Is that the intent?

I kind of feel like that too, and my playing partners, who never notice anything, noticed that the swing is different

[DrOptimtor]

21 hours ago, YouDaHamHider said:

I'd love to see more examples of how people's swings are coming together. 

 

Reading this thread you get the impression that people have watched the video, had a range session and then immediately been able to shoot a score with their new swing. 

 

If I took this to the course at this stage and actually did the moves I'd be lucky to break 100.

 

What's people's secret to making a successful swing change so quickly? 

 

 

 

 

For me, it took 3-4 weeks, at home, with just the club, to make the move not feel like s***.  I'm talking slow motion repetition of the movements, without a ball.  

2-3  days at the range with NTC, still struggling.  

On the course, first ~3 rounds I played, I was thinning everything, but my typically fade to slice was gone.  Draws to overdraws was now my miss.

 

Now that the NTC move is more incorporated, my impact feels good, everything is going pretty straight, ball flight is lower than before.

 

I think, previously, I didn't really understand what I needed to do to make a correct golf/swing motion.  I've seen videos of it, but I wasn't doing it.

After watching NTC, and doing the drills, I now realize, from the top of backswing position, I WAS basically starting the downswing by turning my shoulders and expecting my hands/arms to get the club to the right position.

 

With NTC movements, at top of backswing, downswing and through to impact, it feels like I don't really turn my shoulders at all, and the cast motion just puts the arms/club/hands into the correct position.  It's like magic, feels really weird still. 

 

This video for me, has probably been the best cost/effectiveness money I've ever invested in my golf swing.

 

Good luck with your journey.

Edited November 25, 2020 by DrOptimtor

[glk]

On 11/23/2020 at 8:00 PM, mjedwards409 said:

Do you see two different videos or only one? tried to post 2 - one of the cast-A drill, and one of the full swing.

 

Here’s the full swing where i’m across the line at the top. (or at least I believe that I am)

Across the line isn’t the issue.  Issue is you turn into your right hip and don’t turn your right hip - result is your arm swing and hip turn are out of synch and you end up thrusting your hips toward the ball, ee, and straighten the right arm early and flip/roll.     Without turning your right hip up and back you bring the center of your pelvis toward the ball in the backswing - when you try to turn your right hip in the downswing it brings your pelvis toward the ball (the ee) which causes a hip stall and the right arm  straighten, etc.  You do this in both the full swing and drill.   
 

This player has a poor hip turn too but notE the difference in his after and his ability to synch his arms and pivot.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH8rnCzF2Me/

[glk]

On feeling a loop.     All swings involve a loop.   Most inefficient swings have a loop where the shaft goes back flat and comes down upright - club is heavy going back and light coming down.    Efficient swings do the opposite.   The feel of a loop is the sense of the com of the club dropping behind and below the hands - something you won’t feel in the flat to upright.    Exaggerating arm roll is not necessary and can actually be detrimental.     Some swings will have more pronounced arm roll based on the backswing - think fury and Wolff.    The opposite is true of a Kutcher and Garcia.    Most find a middle ground.   
 

I was a flat to upright swinger and first time I feel the opposite was a lesson with iteach and we talked about the feel of a loop but then the video showed no loop just the shaft travel of a different, more efficient plane.

todd sums it up pretty well in this ig

 

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, glk said:

On feeling a loop.     All swings involve a loop.   Most inefficient swings have a loop where the shaft goes back flat and comes down upright - club is heavy going back and light coming down.    Efficient swings do the opposite.   The feel of a loop is the sense of the com of the club dropping behind and below the hands - something you won’t feel in the flat to upright.    Exaggerating arm roll is not necessary and can actually be detrimental.     Some swings will have more pronounced arm roll based on the backswing - think fury and Wolff.    The opposite is true of a Kutcher and Garcia.    Most find a middle ground.   

This is very interesting!

 

Would you say that the looping effect : causing the center of mass of the club to fall behind and below the hands (what we want) is what sets the lead wrist in a bowed position and more importantly the trail wrist in a cupped angle 'passively' (i.e. caused by the weight of the clubhead dropping behind) and that the cast to 8 triggers the ulnar deviation of both wrists (i.e. stopping the clubhead momentum and rerouting it deep / shallow / from 'in-to-out') all good things : everything set for a good transition and downswing (falling down on your lead side and turning on your lead hip)

 

Also, as an aside, would it be correct to say that ‘presetting’ the wrists (bowed lead / cupped trail) early in the backswing (aka DJ) could be dangerous because it can block that good looping effect (unless you reroute the center of mass of the club; which DJ does obviously very well)?

[glk]

3 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

 

This is very interesting!

 

Would you say that the looping effect : causing the center of mass of the club to fall behind and below the hands (what we want) is what sets the lead wrist in a bowed position and more importantly the trail wrist in a cupped angle 'passively' (i.e. caused by the weight of the clubhead dropping behind) and that the cast to 8 triggers the ulnar deviation of both wrists (i.e. stopping the clubhead momentum and rerouting it deep / shallow / from 'in-to-out') all good things : everything set for a good transition and downswing (falling down on your lead side and turning on your lead hip)

 

Also, as an aside, would it be correct to say that ‘presetting’ the wrists (bowed lead / cupped trail) early in the backswing (aka DJ) could be dangerous because it can block that good looping effect (unless you reroute the center of mass of the club; which DJ does obviously very well)?

The feel of a loop is the effect of the mechanics.  It doesn’t cause anything.   There really is t a loop.

 

Some of the feel is due to the motorcycle - the ud actually happens much later in the downswing around p6.     Bowed wrist doesn’t stop the effect some of which is also the lead forearm pronating a bit and the trail shoulder moving to external rotation.    Have no idea what dj feels.
 

Edited November 25, 2020 by glk

[YouDaHamHider]

For those that haven't already or have but might have forgotten some of it (that's me!) ... Watch segment 4 of Monte's efficient swing series. The external rotation of the trail shoulder drill (segment 4.8) has really helped me with the NTC. I'm sure that one of the other 7 drills in that segment might help anybody who's struggling with the NTC. 

[Miker20890]

Watched the series yesterday and was able to play 9 holes with some range time today. Really struggled on the course til the 8th and 9th hole with ball striking. Then had some range time to help sort it out. Ended up striking the irons pretty well but had a hard time incorporating it into the driver swing. Anyone else have this issue?

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, Miker20890 said:

Watched the series yesterday and was able to play 9 holes with some range time today. Really struggled on the course til the 8th and 9th hole with ball striking. Then had some range time to help sort it out. Ended up striking the irons pretty well but had a hard time incorporating it into the driver swing. Anyone else have this issue?

If you're expecting to implement this immediately without issues you might need to reign in your expectations. Monte did a NTC Q&A that's available at the end of the free Use the Bounce series on his site. Go watch that - it's gold and will help you to set realistic targets. 

[YouDaHamHider]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

If you're expecting to implement this immediately without issues you might need to reign in your expectations. Monte did a NTC Q&A that's available at the end of the free Use the Bounce series on his site. Go watch that - it's gold and will help you to set realistic targets. 

That sounds good. I've got the Use the Bounce series but can't see the NTC Q&A... Do you have any idea where else I could find it please? 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, YouDaHamHider said:

That sounds good. I've got the Use the Bounce series but can't see the NTC Q&A... Do you have any idea where else I could find it please? 

My bad. It's at the end of the grip and setup fundamentals series.

[dachtor]

Sorry for being an idiot, but which video are you guys talking about? The new No Turn Cast Video or the Efficient Swing video? Or both?

 

 

[glk]

4 hours ago, YouDaHamHider said:

That sounds good. I've got the Use the Bounce series but can't see the NTC Q&A... Do you have any idea where else I could find it please? 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFU3Dt9lH-R/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CFVAzzMl2Es/

 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, dachtor said:

Sorry for being an idiot, but which video are you guys talking about? The new No Turn Cast Video or the Efficient Swing video? Or both?

 

 

Which guys? The entire thread? 

[PracticeSwinger]

Disclaimer: I bought the NTC video series (to validate that I can ask this question?)… without giving any explicit details on cast A – I definitely know what is expected, the correct move to do it… but, coming from a ‘neutral’ position (that was previously set at P3) I always struggle to get it accomplished… it is an easy concept, but it’s a lot tougher to implement correctly it seems (for me anyway)…

 

Believe me – I’m definitely not ‘fighting’ it / nothing psychological related to mainstream golf (don’t cast bla bla)… it’s really about getting it done physically… anybody else with me on this?

 

So, any tip on how to get it done?... I’m about to get too much technical, I know that… but would letting the club rest on the tip of your trail thumb at the top and initiate transition by pushing it out and back be a way to do it?

[dachtor]

22 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Which guys? The entire thread? 

 

I was just asking which video the original post was speaking about. I realize there are probably comments about both.

[PracticeSwinger]

18 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

Disclaimer: I bought the NTC video series (to validate that I can ask this question?)… without giving any explicit details on cast A – I definitely know what is expected, the correct move to do it… but, coming from a ‘neutral’ position (that was previously set at P3) I always struggle to get it accomplished… it is an easy concept, but it’s a lot tougher to implement correctly it seems (for me anyway)…

 

Believe me – I’m definitely not ‘fighting’ it / nothing psychological related to mainstream golf (don’t cast bla bla)… it’s really about getting it done physically… anybody else with me on this?

 

So, any tip on how to get it done?... I’m about to get too much technical, I know that… but would letting the club rest on the tip of your trail thumb at the top and initiate transition by pushing it out and back be a way to do it?

Don't want this to turn into a critique my swing thread obviously... but just to gain traction on the post above... couple of vids and pics from DTL and FO (I know, not the best angles)

 

Definitely some weight/pressure issues (can't say I add much lead flex in transition quite the opposite actually causing the reverse pivot look at impact)... but trying to focus on the casts: not getting it done with both moves required at castA... grinding it out; improvements!