Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[glk]

21 minutes ago, macedan said:

I'm assuming some exaggeration is all that's needed, I do tend to play with a stronger grip, maybe a slightly weaker trail hand in relation to my lead hand. Seeing other responses, I understand the mentality of "how can you not possibly do this it's literally the first step" because it literally should be just that simple (hands to here, 90 deg., and flat lead wrist), but in all honesty Hands to 7 perplexes my body for whatever reason. I understand feel does not equal real, but I find myself feeling I am whipping inside again purposefully trying to achieve a flat lead wrist by lead arm parallel. 

Grip will determine how much one flattens the lead wrist.     Zach Johnson is a great example - his lead wrist never flattens and at impact he has a extended left wrist.   But he is less extended at impact than at address.
 

Fort Worth pro, who has seen lots of tour 3D graphs, has shared that about 70% of tour pro measured have extended wrists at the top.    But have to be careful when seeing this on video - 5* extended at the top can certainly look flat to the eye.
 

Point is there is variation but the movement pattern in general is to be more flexed at impact than at address - Tyler Ferrell has said tour guys are somewhere around 25*-30* more flexed - but if you start with a very strong lead hand you can easily be extended greater than 30*.  
 

so in the early part of the backswing the wrist due to the trail wrist extended should flex - does it get flat, maybe - but I’ve even seen graphs where the wrist flexes early only to extend by the time the top is reached.   Key movement is to extended the trail wrist and to flex the lead wrist sometime before shaft parallel - and earlier is easier when the club is moving slower.   Folks with neutral or weak grips would more typically get the wrist flatten bowed in the backswing but even that depends.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by glk

[TheDeanAbides]

30 minutes ago, macedan said:

I'm assuming some exaggeration is all that's needed, I do tend to play with a stronger grip, maybe a slightly weaker trail hand in relation to my lead hand. Seeing other responses, I understand the mentality of "how can you not possibly do this it's literally the first step" because it literally should be just that simple (hands to here, 90 deg., and flat lead wrist), but in all honesty Hands to 7 perplexes my body for whatever reason. I understand feel does not equal real, but I find myself feeling I am whipping inside again purposefully trying to achieve a flat lead wrist by lead arm parallel. 

Do it slowly. There's no need to go inside at all - it'll happen naturally to correct amount if you c0ck your wrists correctly. It might be frustrating, but start with the drill Monte gives to find the correct position by presetting before turning. Once you know the destination you can figure out how to move your wrists to get there. I know this can be frustrating, but if you get it correct the backswing is pretty much over. 

[Mustu]

I bought the NTC video a while ago, but wanted to didn't want to try it until the off season.  I loved the original NTC drill.  I was able to take it to the course after watching the drill without even trying it at the range and it worked really well for me.  Super simple.  It seems like I've gotten away from it lately.

 

Watched the new video and realized that Monte has put a lot of thought into this.  The turn from 7 to 8 in the backswing is new.  Even though I hit really solid shots with the original drill I felt like I lost distance.  Now I think it's because I wasn't going from 7 to 8.

 

For me the transition move is really hard to sequence and the first cast to 8 is key.  At that point I don't even think about 2nd cast...it just comes naturally.

 

My first range session with these new moves were tough.  Lots of thin, fat shots, off the toe, big hooks.  2nd range session was much better.  Tried it out on the golf course yesterday.  I took plenty of golf balls with me thinking I'd lose a bunch.  I hit tons of quality shots that felt great and didn't lose any balls aside from the 1st tee when I pushed it into the trees.  I don't really play winter golf, but am excited to put this into play next spring.

 

For anyone on the fence this is a great investment in your golf game for very little money.

[acekun]

I've been extremely frustrated since I got onto Trackman a few weeks ago. Showed poor path and face control. I was trying to cast to 8 (even 9), but my buddy said my hips were spinning too early so it kept resulting in over the top move. So I had this swipey move where I wasn't compressing the ball.

 

I've been trying to fix this for last few weeks but no improvement. Finally had an epiphany. In Efficient Swing, Monte explains different feels to execute a certain movement. You just need to find a feel that works for you.

 

So for the "bump", I've started just thinking about "re-centering" like the AMG guys talk about -- so I'm not worried about front leg pressure, my hips, back to the target, etc. My only thought is to re-center the ball to the middle of my body so I know exactly how much to move forward and it keeps my shoulders from opening too soon.

 

For cast A, instead of throwing/casting, I am focused on quickly dropping my club parallel to the ground while having my handle pointing at the ball. I'm doing the same movement as Cast A, but now I'm just using a different feel. 

 

Before the NTC video, I had viewed the NTC as a feel from Monte's old youtube video. But understanding that it's not just a feel but a movement allowed me to find feels that fit within the framework of NTC. 

 

I am now compressing the ball better than I have for a long time. 

 

 

 

 

 

[PracticeSwinger]

38 minutes ago, acekun said:

So for the "bump", I've started just thinking about "re-centering" like the AMG guys talk about -- so I'm not worried about front leg pressure, my hips, back to the target, etc. My only thought is to re-center the ball to the middle of my body so I know exactly how much to move forward and it keeps my shoulders from opening too soon

I hope I won’t get flame for this as it seems counter-intuitive but, for the bump/re-center/Rory-lead-flex move to delay rotation, I’ve been practicing with the Wolff lead ankle lift (although not that extreme) in the backswing (but making sure the left knee goes toward toes and doesn’t dive in at the ball)...

 

You still can get deep and wide - and it’s an awesome trigger for the ‘bump’... as you stomp on your front toes at the top, kills a few birds all at once : gets you back centered and stops the horizontal force (gliding too far forward) / also delays in transition (keep your back to the target; Nicklaus/Rose) as Monte mentions... and as you do both casts from the top (feel vs real) you can pushback on your front toes (all the front pressure is on your toes and you get it to your lead heel) : generates the rotational and vertical force needed in the downswing/hitting area (as Wolff does so well; tremendous rotational and vertical ground forces before impact)... fun move to practice!

[TheDeanAbides]

At what length backswing do we switch from cast b to cast a/b? 

[Hilts1969]

 

A couple of things I have noted which may or may not help others. These could be my struggles alone but I will put them out there, out of interest to myself as much as anything.

 

without a ball and slowly the moves are easy to do

if you do the cast in isolation you will get too shallow

with a ball there and at normal or even half speed the urge to move the club head toward the ball is hard to get rid of

using your right shoulder to help with the wrist movement is common and destructive

[sthompson42]

I’ll chime in with my experience over the last month or so. 

 

- Watching the video several times while having a club in hand to mimic the moves really helped me. Then practicing each move in slow motion, no ball to really feel how this backswing, and both casts feel different, odd, new awkward. Just picking the club in the house for 5 minutes 4 or 5 times a night helped with retention of the feel (watch for ceiling fans!)

- Although I think the slow motion swings feeling each position is essential, I feel equally as strong the you have to mix that up with hitting balls.  The slow motion is a series of separate thoughts for me, but the full swing has to be one fluid motion. Too much slow motion work for me lead me to try to replicate these moves separately when I got over the ball which resulted in fat, thin, etc. shots. Getting these individual moves into one fluid motion where you are just going along for the ride was important for me.

- I choose to take this swing to the course immediately versus practicing it on the range but use my old swing on the course.  Being in between swing moves is a disaster for me. 

- the first few rounds were great. Then a few bad ones where I could feel I wasn’t quite executing properly. That led me back to slow motion swings. This a long process  as Monte says that you have to commit to but you also will see some immediate improvements right away if you commit.

- I think* Monte did mention that some feels will be different for each person and individual adjustments may need to be made.  I agree with that based on your normal swing tendencies. For example, I tend to come way from the inside on the downswing normally. So with experimentation, I found that I have to “feel” like my first cast move is to 6 o’clock But on video it’s much more like 8 o’clock. Point being is you may have to feel something different to get to Monte’s positions. Once I made that change, I had much more consistency especially with the longer clubs and driver.  With that said, some seem to be taking only the parts of Monte’s Swing and mixing it with their own preferences. That likely will spell disaster. You need to be all in.

- last piece of advice is too be sure to turn through and get the hands through at impact. I can get too focused on the first cast and forget to fire cast 2 & really turn through the shot.

 

Hope that may help someone. Highly recommend this video. So inexpensive and Monte really has developed something special here.

[berndgeurts]

1 hour ago, sthompson42 said:

I’ll chime in with my experience over the last month or so. 

 

- Watching the video several times while having a club in hand to mimic the moves really helped me. Then practicing each move in slow motion, no ball to really feel how this backswing, and both casts feel different, odd, new awkward. Just picking the club in the house for 5 minutes 4 or 5 times a night helped with retention of the feel (watch for ceiling fans!)

- Although I think the slow motion swings feeling each position is essential, I feel equally as strong the you have to mix that up with hitting balls.  The slow motion is a series of separate thoughts for me, but the full swing has to be one fluid motion. Too much slow motion work for me lead me to try to replicate these moves separately when I got over the ball which resulted in fat, thin, etc. shots. Getting these individual moves into one fluid motion where you are just going along for the ride was important for me.

- I choose to take this swing to the course immediately versus practicing it on the range but use my old swing on the course.  Being in between swing moves is a disaster for me. 

- the first few rounds were great. Then a few bad ones where I could feel I wasn’t quite executing properly. That led me back to slow motion swings. This a long process  as Monte says that you have to commit to but you also will see some immediate improvements right away if you commit.

- I think* Monte did mention that some feels will be different for each person and individual adjustments may need to be made.  I agree with that based on your normal swing tendencies. For example, I tend to come way from the inside on the downswing normally. So with experimentation, I found that I have to “feel” like my first cast move is to 6 o’clock But on video it’s much more like 8 o’clock. Point being is you may have to feel something different to get to Monte’s positions. Once I made that change, I had much more consistency especially with the longer clubs and driver.  With that said, some seem to be taking only the parts of Monte’s Swing and mixing it with their own preferences. That likely will spell disaster. You need to be all in.

- last piece of advice is too be sure to turn through and get the hands through at impact. I can get too focused on the first cast and forget to fire cast 2 & really turn through the shot.

 

Hope that may help someone. Highly recommend this video. So inexpensive and Monte really has developed something special here.

I did exactly this. Every night 5 to 10 minutes. Slowmotion and normal speed. Worked like a charm.

Ofcourse you'll still have some bad days, but it is no trick or gummies, you'll have to work work work.

[danno66]

Sounds like I’m not the only struggling with the transition piece. I can’t identify any type of ‘feel’ - I just feel like I’m sliding to the left and getting really steep. It’s almost like I’m toppling over to the outside of my left foot. 

[Golfbeat]

28 minutes ago, danno66 said:

Sounds like I’m not the only struggling with the transition piece. I can’t identify any type of ‘feel’ - I just feel like I’m sliding to the left and getting really steep. It’s almost like I’m toppling over to the outside of my left foot. 

 

Maybe this helps. Making it a bit more dynamic.

 

 

 

[danno66]

That absolutely helps - thank you. I also found AMG’s re-centre drill that was mentioned higher up. Definitely more relatable ‘feels’ (for me, personally)

[DrDon]

3 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Maybe this helps. Making it a bit more dynamic.

 

 

 

 

Same ideas as espoused by the AMG guys.

 

Very helpful to my golf swing.

 

 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

On 12/6/2020 at 12:43 PM, berndgeurts said:

I did exactly this. Every night 5 to 10 minutes. Slowmotion and normal speed. Worked like a charm.

Ofcourse you'll still have some bad days, but it is no trick or gummies, you'll have to work work work.

Lots of practice.  9-3 drill, and right arm only swings helped me feel the transition.  Planemate helped my hips turn better, but NTC is putting all of the pieces together.  My irons are straighter and longer with a smoother swing since committing to NTC.  Still working on driver, and that is my winter project.

[mooney]

My question centers around the initial backswing to 7. It feels very unnatural for my body to "stay closed" while moving the arms back. Of course its not staying fully closed but more so than my current swing. In my current backswing, the hips, shoulders and arms all turn back at the same time, and my hips are much more rotated when my arms reach parallel. My position at the very top is fairly close to where the NTC backswing ends up, just in a different sequence. 

 

Anybody else have a similar sensation? See much improvement going to the hands first, then body rotation  backswing, even when ending up roughly the same spot at the top?

 

Searched this thread but couldn't find this really being discussed.

[TheDeanAbides]

Today was the first time I've played golf since NTC, and it felt like being a different golfer. 

 

I played our par 3 course to practice partial shots - I didn't hit a single full wedge. It was so relaxing hitting little punched wedges and having control of the ball. I left a couple short and hit a couple a groove thin, but I never felt like there was a big fat disaster around the corner.

 

This coupled with the insane magic that is voodoo green reading led to a level par 9. I had every single line. The only ones I missed were because of pace on our slow AF winter greens. 

 

Thank you for turning me into a golfer, Monte. I haven't shot a level nine for two decades. 

[NewJerseySwingin]

anyone have suggestions on how to reduce the backswing? To me I feel like I’m making a putter backswing but when I look at my video, I’m way past 90.  I get lucky sometimes and hit it great but I think my over backswing is hurting me. Suggestions appreciated. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by NewJerseySwingin

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, NewJerseySwingin said:

anyone have suggestions on how to reduce the backswing? To me I feel like I’m making a putter backswing but when I look at my video, I’m way past 90.  I get lucky sometimes and hit it great but I think my over backswing is hurting me. Suggestions appreciated. 

Do exactly what it said in the video.

[Rbsiedsc]

On 12/8/2020 at 5:33 AM, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Lots of practice.  9-3 drill, and right arm only swings helped me feel the transition.  Planemate helped my hips turn better, but NTC is putting all of the pieces together.  My irons are straighter and longer with a smoother swing since committing to NTC.  Still working on driver, and that is my winter project.

Did you ever do NTC with the planemate?

[Puttersaurus Rex]

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Did you ever do NTC with the planemate?

Honestly, only once with a 9-3 swing.  In my mind I need to separate planemate videos from NTC.  The bands will mess up my “no turn”.  

 

I use planemate for the feel of firing my hips/keeping club from sucking inside, and use the ntc series as my current swing thoughts.  Since ntc was a concept before planemate, I see planemate as a device for the cast muscle memory.  

 

Monte’s videos do a better job of explaining the concepts for me.  People have different learning styles, and ntc resonated better than the planemate by itself for a full swing.  Different methods of intruction.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

12 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Do exactly what it said in the video.

 

I want to throw in my comment on this. I fight a way over long backswing and had a range session the other night trying the concepts (just bought the video). I did it exactly as outlined and I already feel as though my swing shortened up some.

 

I think the video has really good keys for me in the cast A portion especially. For a while I have battled with knowing where the club needs to go but struggling to make it happen when I actually go to hit a golf ball. Something about doing it the way the video outlines made it click for me, I need more time with it but initial impression has me excited to work with it more.

Edited December 10, 2020 by TLUBulldogGolf

[DaveLeeNC]

19 hours ago, NewJerseySwingin said:

anyone have suggestions on how to reduce the backswing? To me I feel like I’m making a putter backswing but when I look at my video, I’m way past 90.  I get lucky sometimes and hit it great but I think my over backswing is hurting me. Suggestions appreciated. 

Simply turn age 71 - did wonders for my formerly too long backswing 🙂

 

But seriously, I don't see how you can make a WAY too long backswing and do anything close to what Monte is teaching in NTC. 

 

dave

[TheDeanAbides]

8 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

Simply turn age 71 - did wonders for my formerly too long backswing 🙂

 

But seriously, I don't see how you can make a WAY too long backswing and do anything close to what Monte is teaching in NTC. 

 

dave

Yes, just go back to the first stage. If you're backswing is way too long you really need to feel that 8 o'clock position that Monte shows - it's there exactly for you. 

 

Show reps at first then gradually speed it up. When I introduced the cast a concept I was hitting full wedges 15 yards. Go as slow as that. 

[flipmode]

I ended up buying the Efficient Swing for black friday. It is absolute GOLD! It fills in so many questions for me that I had with NTC. I highly recommend it before getting the NTC.

[Hilts1969]

On 12/10/2020 at 5:08 AM, NewJerseySwingin said:

anyone have suggestions on how to reduce the backswing? To me I feel like I’m making a putter backswing but when I look at my video, I’m way past 90.  I get lucky sometimes and hit it great but I think my over backswing is hurting me. Suggestions appreciated. 

 

Same ongoing problem mate, if I do the drill c0ck then hinge then complete backswing it’s perfect. Normal swing I get too high with the arms and overswing. For me the 7 o’clock to 8 o’clock has to feel completely horizontal with no lift. Also because you think 7 then 8 that delay makes the hands go higher than desired. 

 

Ive been down the route of just trying to shorten the backswing but it doesn’t work because if I do it I haven’t enough turn. 

 

Keep repeating the drill all all the time with and without a club.  I have to go to 8 when I feel the hands are waist high.  c0ck and hinge very early so your in the 7 o’clock position by waist high rather than chest high(you won’t be)then get the arms horizontal to 8. Check video.

 

i have a feeling merging the two moves(7 to 8 ) will take some time. No quick fix.

[leftymatt]

I'm in the long backswing boat, as well

 

What has been most eye-opening to me are two things: how steep my backswing has been (and consequently, the downswing) and how cupped my lead wrist is (was) at the top of the backswing.  Flattening out the lead wrist has been a very weird feeling to me, but I know it needs to happen so I'm really focusing on that.

 

Two suggestions:

If you haven't done so yet, record yourself from a couple of different angles. This may not be the case for everyone, but I was shocked at what I'm actually doing versus what I'm feeling.

 

Consider working on lead arm parallel swings for quite a while to groove that control of the backswing and get other pieces in a good place for the full swing. The NTC concept had an immediate impact for me, but recognizing that I had more flaws than I thought, I took a step back and this has been huge for me. I think the @TheDeanAbides mentioned working on lead arm parallel swings exclusively for a while

 

[TheDeanAbides]

14 minutes ago, leftymatt said:

I'm in the long backswing boat, as well

 

What has been most eye-opening to me are two things: how steep my backswing has been (and consequently, the downswing) and how cupped my lead wrist is (was) at the top of the backswing.  Flattening out the lead wrist has been a very weird feeling to me, but I know it needs to happen so I'm really focusing on that.

 

Two suggestions:

If you haven't done so yet, record yourself from a couple of different angles. This may not be the case for everyone, but I was shocked at what I'm actually doing versus what I'm feeling.

 

Consider working on lead arm parallel swings for quite a while to groove that control of the backswing and get other pieces in a good place for the full swing. The NTC concept had an immediate impact for me, but recognizing that I had more flaws than I thought, I took a step back and this has been huge for me. I think the @TheDeanAbides mentioned working on lead arm parallel swings exclusively for a while

 

I was forced into that by lockdown in the UK, but it was invaluable. I can now hit 3 iron with that swing, and am in the process of building from there. 

[Divot License]

The only issue I'm having with the NTC swing is as I'm getting more comfortable with the swing my ball flight is gradually getting lower, to the point where its starting to feel detrimental.  

 

Does anyone else have any experience with this or an idea why it might be happening?

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, Jedaigeki said:

The only issue I'm having with the NTC swing is as I'm getting more comfortable with the swing my ball flight is gradually getting lower, to the point where its starting to feel detrimental.  

 

Does anyone else have any experience with this or an idea why it might be happening?

Are you doing both casts?

[berndgeurts]

10 hours ago, Jedaigeki said:

The only issue I'm having with the NTC swing is as I'm getting more comfortable with the swing my ball flight is gradually getting lower, to the point where its starting to feel detrimental.  

 

Does anyone else have any experience with this or an idea why it might be happening?

This can be a because of the amount of loft delivered at the ball. There can be many reasons, but I would video the swing and review all the steps of the NTC to find the cause. Then do the practice drills again.

Edited December 14, 2020 by berndgeurts