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Monte's new No Turn - Cast


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3 hours ago, aswile said:

I found that when I did the initial "cast" as a pump drill twice or three times and then let the swing go, I hit the ball very well with the right body reactions. I never spend multiple range sessions doing this though...usually I do it a dozen times that then incorporate it into the normal swing, which usually lasts about three balls.  I have spent 20 years swinging the wrong way and should be able to undo all of that learned behavior in 10 range balls...sure.

Five balls if you're really trying. 😉

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Everyone doing this has been doing it for a week.  Ask a tour player how long it takes to fully implement a new concept.   How would you expect more than a general answer when the swing isn’

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8 hours ago, games said:

 

In fact, @MonteScheinblum, I think it would be really cool if you did a segment analyzing the overhead view of your swing!  You can more easily see the arms and hands performing Cast A, and also a limited view of hips and pivot.

This would be a great idea! Or not, if Monte has a reason why it wouldn't work.

 

I'll be really embarrassed if overhead is showing on either of the video compilations that deal with wrists/NTC.

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On 1/18/2021 at 2:58 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

Pros spend 40-60 hours a week at the course and will spend as much as 6-18 months getting one thing right.  
 

The vast majority of ams will be disappointed in themselves if they can’t make something work in their hour on the lesson tee and will call themselves stupid when they can’t magically change a 10 year ingrained move in a month or two.

 

The recent article by Jordan Spieth speaks volumes at how long and hard a pro will work on something.  Many will debate its mental more than physical with him, but that’s not relevant to this discussion.  Tiger was often heard saying 12-18 months to ingrain a new move.  Most ams would scoff at it needing to take 12-18 days.;

 

Even more important.  Pros recognize how improvement is incremental and not linear.  
 

Ams will be upset with themselves When their 30 yard slice turns into a 10 yard fade.  “It’s still slicing, I want to hit a draw.”

 

They will also have 3 consecutive great trips to the range, then start distracting the process with a bad session 4.

 

Im not trying to be harsh, but all these things are nearly universal and lead to changing the course or even giving up.

 

Improvement is measured in months and years, not hours and days...or even weeks.

 

Soap box rant over, but it’s the hardest part of my job to watch people work so hard, make great progress and let the above revert them to the norm.

 

Not gonna derail the thread or this train of thought but it's so important for the guy attempting to ingrain something new to ask yourself if they are committed to the change. Because a true change takes a true commitment to the change or it will never occur. Patience is a virtue in most things and especially in golf. Not everything is gonna go your way or as you perceive it, right off the bat. Just decide of the change is what you really need and ask for some help in making this decision. It'll save you a lot of frustration in the long run. I distinctly remember how much crap Geoff Jones took when saying most folks would have to hit 10k 9 to 3 wedges just to get the idea of how to swing it his way and everyone was like, "OH HELL NO!". He wasn't wrong.

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I have not seen this posted in the thread yet but I'm sure some of you practiced this way(assumption on my part...) I had been doing the drills for cast A and B and noticed improvement with my ball striking, at least with driver. I had a pretty reliable fade going. My practice was pretty much just the drills and swings where the swing thought was cast B. I changed this recently based on some comments in a different thread. 

 

The last couple of sessions I have worked on the drills as before but added in some full swings with driver where my thought was to just hit the ball. I don't recall the last time prior to this where I was on the range and just trying to hit the ball as my only focus. I noticed a positive change in my ball striking when I played a few days ago. I suddenly felt like I was doing one of the casts during my swing w/o thinking about it. It was kinda odd for me. A definite change in the feel of my swing. The result was that I started hitting mostly draws with less pushes as well. Weather wasn't great, about 40* with 15+ mph winds, so I can't draw much of a conclusion with regard to distances. I can say contact was more solid and ball flight was very good looking. I'm just hoping this isn't one of those flash in the pan things were the stars were in alignment for one day, lol.

 

 

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I agree with that line of thinking. It took me a lot of practice without a ball to get the positions correct and coordinated.  And as I have said, watched the videos in between many times. So many small nuggets in the videos. I’m starting to think about the positions less on the course and just think about leading the backswing with my hands up to the right position of “no turn” and then get the hands and clubhead head to and through the ball, which in reality is cast A and then cast B. But it feels like one movement.  Ball-striking has improved dramatically.

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8 hours ago, nitram said:

 

Not gonna derail the thread or this train of thought but it's so important for the guy attempting to ingrain something new to ask yourself if they are committed to the change. Because a true change takes a true commitment to the change or it will never occur. Patience is a virtue in most things and especially in golf. Not everything is gonna go your way or as you perceive it, right off the bat. Just decide of the change is what you really need and ask for some help in making this decision. It'll save you a lot of frustration in the long run. I distinctly remember how much crap Geoff Jones took when saying most folks would have to hit 10k 9 to 3 wedges just to get the idea of how to swing it his way and everyone was like, "OH HELL NO!". He wasn't wrong.

 

4 hours ago, sthompson42 said:

I agree with that line of thinking. It took me a lot of practice without a ball to get the positions correct and coordinated.  And as I have said, watched the videos in between many times. So many small nuggets in the videos. I’m starting to think about the positions less on the course and just think about leading the backswing with my hands up to the right position of “no turn” and then get the hands and clubhead head to and through the ball, which in reality is cast A and then cast B. But it feels like one movement.  Ball-striking has improved dramatically.

Just adding to this line of thought of getting lots of reps in...  As a righty I picked up a lefty driver for the range as an attempt to help balance the stresses in my aching lower back (gone now thanks to things I mentioned in the "golf is bad for the back" thread).  Lefty backswing felt so weird and foreign.  Through-swing not so bad.  After picking up NTC, I figured why not commit to it from both sides?  Can't say I've played much yet other than inside swing reps, but that lefty swing that was so foreign is feeling a lot more natural now.

 

So far for me the no turn 7-8:00 hand set feels great lefty - I mean 5-4:00 lefty!  It really simplified things.  For my normal righty swing I'm trying to ingrain the whole prolonged no turn transition combined with cast A and B, as someone with fast hips who can get stuck.

 

Anyway, it's a fun experiment with a fresh swing perspective from the other side of the ball - as if the game isn't hard enough from one side!  Might as well ingrain these mechanics.

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I decided to give it a go as well.  I have been struggling for a few years with inconsistent ball striking, mainly with my irons.  Watched the series last night, dabbled with the moves, today I will be taking it to the range.  I have a tournament in a few weeks and it’s probably a bad idea to incorporate a change now, but I don’t think I could hit my irons any worse 😂.  Worst case scenario I guess work on NTC the next couple of weeks and if it isn’t taking yet, just play my “old swing” for the tourney and then back to NTC after.  I’m excited, I think some instructors are way over complicating things, Monte from all the videos I’ve watched keeps it simple and doesn’t overload you with confusing information.

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The takeaway is what I've been focusing on recently but I'm struggling with getting the wrist flat at 7 o'clock. My tendency is to get too far from the inside and fight a hook and this feels like a more shut position that what I'm used to. I know if I can link it up with a proper transition it won't be shut but what can I do to ingrain this feel? It feels like I need more forward press if I do the hinge into rotate my wrist flat move. 

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34 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

The takeaway is what I've been focusing on recently but I'm struggling with getting the wrist flat at 7 o'clock. My tendency is to get too far from the inside and fight a hook and this feels like a more shut position that what I'm used to. I know if I can link it up with a proper transition it won't be shut but what can I do to ingrain this feel? It feels like I need more forward press if I do the hinge into rotate my wrist flat move. 

Monte says that it will feel shut but it isn't. Have you tried slow reps of the drill he gives in the video? I have a tendency to lose the flat wrist too if I don't rehearse it before swinging. 

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After one range session I can tell already my ball striking will be better.  Obviously no where near mastering it but was able to get consistent center contact.  Can’t imagine what it will be like when I get the movement and sequence down better.  
Two things I did notice...

1) cast 1 seems to be a weird difficult move for me. 

2) years of having a hip slide snuck into a few swings which created a block.  
 

overall very happy and excited to see how this goes.

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5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Monte says that it will feel shut but it isn't. Have you tried slow reps of the drill he gives in the video? I have a tendency to lose the flat wrist too if I don't rehearse it before swinging. 

 

It's hard for me to feel the flat wrist and also have the club steep enough, it tends to point too far outside the ball. 

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6 minutes ago, acekun said:

When you say flat, do you mean perfectly flat? Where is your wrist at the top of the backswing? 

 

I am mainly focused on the 7 o'clock checkpoint, as I find many of my issues arise early in the backswing.

 

It tends to be flat to slightly cupped at the top of the backswing. 

Edited by TLUBulldogGolf

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32 minutes ago, acekun said:

Yeah, I know. I was trying to understand where it's causing you to end up at the top of the backswing. 

 

Sorry, edited my post. 

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33 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

Sorry, edited my post. 

 

I assume you've done the backswing A drill where he lifts the club in front of him before he rotates. That at least should help with the feel of a flat left wrist. Personally, I feel like I'm really bowing my wrist in my backswing and that gets me to flat to just slightly bowed.

 

The other feel that I've used (that's personally more effective) is to concentrate on my right hand feel instead of my left. I also always practice in front of a mirror. 

 

The other thing that I would mention is that it doesn't have to be perfect. In Efficient Swing, Monte says that if it's slightly cupped or slightly bowed at the top of the backswing, it's OK. You just want to be in a pretty good position and not at one end of the extreme. Even in NTC (I just watched that segment again), he shows the movement to left arm parallel and says if you basically look like this, you can skip the rest of this section and go to the next. He doesn't mention that the wrist has to be flat at that point. He just says if you look close to something like this, then you're fine. 

 

If you're getting to a good position at the top of the backswing, I'm guessing that your move to 7 o'clock is fine. Obviously, this is just a guess. 

 

 

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So I’ve been watching the series the past few days and got some swing time focusing on cast A. Even with only focusing on cast A and going full swing from there, I was getting solid contact. The feel of cast A is completely foreign to me. The right forearm is a little odd and the bowed wrist will take some getting used to, but from the cast A as I go toward impact the face is square and on plane without thought. It also feels my downswing has lengthened, and that gives the impression my old swing has jumped on a moving walkway in the airport; definitely more club head speed. I’m going to continue practicing cast A for a few more days before focusing on cast B and then the whole package but dang I cannot wait to see the long term results.

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35 minutes ago, BombinJim said:

So I’ve been watching the series the past few days and got some swing time focusing on cast A. Even with only focusing on cast A and going full swing from there, I was getting solid contact. The feel of cast A is completely foreign to me. The right forearm is a little odd and the bowed wrist will take some getting used to, but from the cast A as I go toward impact the face is square and on plane without thought. It also feels my downswing has lengthened, and that gives the impression my old swing has jumped on a moving walkway in the airport; definitely more club head speed. I’m going to continue practicing cast A for a few more days before focusing on cast B and then the whole package but dang I cannot wait to see the long term results.


I felt exactly the same.   I really worked yesterday on breaking it down in pieces getting myself to the right positions and it was fine.  Then I thought let’s just try and see if I can build some speed and wasn’t as successful.  I did get to the point where I did speed up the whole swing, got to 8 in the backswing and transitioned to cast 2, hit the ball fantastic.  I didn’t video myself so I’m wondering if I shallowed out naturally and because I play from a strong grip I already had the bow.  I will work on it more today, I love how simple it is.  

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15 hours ago, acekun said:

 

I assume you've done the backswing A drill where he lifts the club in front of him before he rotates. That at least should help with the feel of a flat left wrist. Personally, I feel like I'm really bowing my wrist in my backswing and that gets me to flat to just slightly bowed.

 

The other feel that I've used (that's personally more effective) is to concentrate on my right hand feel instead of my left. I also always practice in front of a mirror. 

 

The other thing that I would mention is that it doesn't have to be perfect. In Efficient Swing, Monte says that if it's slightly cupped or slightly bowed at the top of the backswing, it's OK. You just want to be in a pretty good position and not at one end of the extreme. Even in NTC (I just watched that segment again), he shows the movement to left arm parallel and says if you basically look like this, you can skip the rest of this section and go to the next. He doesn't mention that the wrist has to be flat at that point. He just says if you look close to something like this, then you're fine. 

 

If you're getting to a good position at the top of the backswing, I'm guessing that your move to 7 o'clock is fine. Obviously, this is just a guess. 

 

 

 

It's a little more complicated, I really just need to work on the cast A portion until the feel is ingrained because when I add speed things change (arms get disconnected more). I think I just need to do a lesson with Monte. 

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58 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

Am I an outlier when I say that the back swing part actually seems to be helping me the most?

I wouldn't say you're an outlier! My sense from reading this thread and having worked through the concepts tells me plenty of people are benefiting from the back swing pieces. I think it comes down to what your backswing has looked like prior to applying Monte's concepts

 

For the longest time, I convinced myself that I didn't need to spend much time working on my backswing. I had committed to what felt natural and then focused on impact from there. My mind has completely changed on this... I recorded my swing DTL last year for the first time in a long time and it was extremely telling. I think there's huge value in working on the transition, Cast A/B pieces, but for me, getting in the right (or "better") positions on the way back has been the game changer. 

 

 

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Update: been practicing in the backyard net at home with my 3 iron. It’s not exactly the easiest to hit but my gaming clubs are at my home course during the week. Anyway, Cast A only swing has left me with the majority of shots in the red, some outliers in green mostly toward heel, and one or two toe hits in blue. I’ve been setting up in the backswing, doing two or three pumps of Cast A and getting a full swing in from there. Trying to ingrain the feel of the cast will take a while. I struggle to just go for a full swing without a pause and a practice cast but hopefully the feels will develop. As Mick said in Rocky “you gotta put in 10,000 hours” (or something like that)

 

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Had a really good practice session sticking with this, really starting to get my backswing more organized. Ironed out getting the wrist more flat going back as well, just need more reps. Would still like to get some more depth, been having some trouble controlling the low point.

 

 

Edited by TLUBulldogGolf
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10 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Had a really good practice session sticking with this, really starting to get my backswing more organized. Ironed out getting the wrist more flat going back as well, just need more reps. Would still like to get some more depth, been having some trouble controlling the low point.

 

 

For your consideration

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