Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

I have been doing a lot of rehearsals and continuing to work on things, I think at this point nailing the transition move is what will really help me. But my tendency in the past is for my arms to disconnect from my turn. I have had great success working with the smart ball and I know Monte has referenced this or something similar for my exact issue. My question is how do you square the use of that with a 'no-turn' concept for the initial part of the backswing. This is probably related to my depth questions as well. 

The smart ball is totally compatible. The first move will get you in an ideal but not over rotated BS. It's not that there's actually no turn - it's just that we're not focusing on the turn which leads to over rotation, too deep arm swing and overswinging naughtiness. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

3 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

The smart ball is totally compatible. The first move will get you in an ideal but not over rotated BS. It's not that there's actually no turn - it's just that we're not focusing on the turn which leads to over rotation, too deep arm swing and overswinging naughtiness. 

 

That makes sense, I think if anything my tendency in the past was to be under-rotated/hips too restricted. I like the idea of simply not focusing on it.

Edited February 8, 2021 by TLUBulldogGolf

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

That makes sense, I think if anything my tendency was to be under-rotated. I like the idea of simply not focusing on it.

Then you probably need to let the hips go a bit... although not focusing on it and seeing where it leads you is a worthy investigation. You're a good player - I'm sure you'll figure it out. 

[ColoradoMike]

Curious if anyone here has completely committed to this swing? I'm a few range sessions in and was looking for some feedback from some folks who have made the leap. Are you more consistent? The key for me was keeping my back to the target with that first cast. When I spin out or open up it's disaster and I definitely had disaster grooved for a few bags. But when I do this properly, I've never hit the ball better. 

[ferrispgm]

16 hours ago, ColoradoMike said:

Curious if anyone here has completely committed to this swing? I'm a few range sessions in and was looking for some feedback from some folks who have made the leap. Are you more consistent? The key for me was keeping my back to the target with that first cast. When I spin out or open up it's disaster and I definitely had disaster grooved for a few bags. But when I do this properly, I've never hit the ball better. 

 

Been working on it since last year February.  Around August shot my first round in the 60s with a 67 which was my best by 3 shots.  Struggled a little for the next few months and now 3 of my last 4 rounds were 69.  Bottom line...it works if you stick with it.  The key is that it's not a swing method or model....it's a move that nearly all good/great players do.

[ColoradoMike]

2 hours ago, ferrispgm said:

 

Been working on it since last year February.  Around August shot my first round in the 60s with a 67 which was my best by 3 shots.  Struggled a little for the next few months and now 3 of my last 4 rounds were 69.  Bottom line...it works if you stick with it.  The key is that it's not a swing method or model....it's a move that nearly all good/great players do.

Thanks for the feedback and nice shooting! Yes, I agree it's a move all good players do and it feels fantastic when done properly. My miss is a push fade and it haunts me for a spell each season. The more I work on this move, the more I can see where the push fade comes from. I'm liking the results so far. I'd rather hit the ball solid and not score than scratch out a low score. 

[Lordswood]

Started with this 'move' a few weeks ago, unfortunately courses/ ranges are closed here in the UK and the weather has been bad so not been able to practice. I did get a few days in at the end of Jan and from the videos I've taken I can see some improvement in my backswing. 

 

Ive always had a slight over the top move and that seems to have disappeared. I still need to nail the second cast but so far the strike seem much improved. 

 

Havent tried it with the Driver yet but looking forward to the season ahead, if lockdown will ever be eased

[JayMas]

Is cast A accomplishing the same things as separating the left shoulder/getting the left shoulder off the chin?

[games]

I would say Cast A causes the left shoulder to separate.

[JayMas]

22 minutes ago, games said:

I would say Cast A causes the left shoulder to separate.

👍 The reason I ask, is the feel of getting my left shoulder down and off my chin as the first thing I do (from drive 4 dough and efficient swing) to initiate the downswing is definitely more comfortable for me. But if it's not as effective at creating other necessary parts of a good transition then I'd rather focus on something that is uncomfortable at first. Are there other things cast A accomplishes that consciously moving the left shoulder off the chin doesn't?

Edited February 16, 2021 by JayMas

[games]

Well, as Monte would say, if you're making a change that feels comfortable, you're probably not changing very much!  I would say doing Cast A properly, and in the correct direction, will have several benefits, one of which is getting separation of the lead shoulder...

[JayMas]

9 minutes ago, games said:

Well, as Monte would say, if you're making a change that feels comfortable, you're probably not changing very much!  I would say doing Cast A properly, and in the correct direction, will have several benefits, one of which is getting separation of the lead shoulder...

Perfect! That's kind of where my gut was telling me to go. Sometimes you just need the reassurance.

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, games said:

I would say Cast A causes the left shoulder to separate.

Just to add a caveat for the original question. I would say that Cast A causes the left shoulder to separate from the chin, but only in conjunction with the No Turn part (ie you're not turning your torso; or stated another way, keeping your back to the target). If you try to Cast A without that No Turn part, you're going to have a difficult time making it work. 

[Liveonce]

Can someone describe more in depth the casting/firing of the right arm?

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, Liveonce said:

Can someone describe more in depth the casting/firing of the right arm?

You are not casting or firing the right arm. You're ulnar deviating and flexing the left wrist alone. That motion in conjunction with a bump/recentering does all the magic. From there you just turn as hard as you want. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[Hilts1969]

To me the cast A is a shallowing and closing the clubface move. I can do it without the shoulder coming off the chin.

 

The left shoulder down is a problem for me. It feels slow and I'm not used to being that close to the ground.

[PracticeSwinger]

4 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

The left shoulder down is a problem for me. It feels slow and I'm not used to being that close to the ground.

It has to happen 'slowly' to let everything sync up 'lower' & 'later'- by left arm parralel - at that moment, maximum pressure in your lead foot (pushing into the ground forward and left); triggers an aggresive pivot magic, only then the left shoulder goes up and through by sheer momentum; creating space for your club (that many think they don't have by 'lowering' their lead shoulder/body earlier)

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

It has to happen 'slowly' to let everything sync up 'lower' & 'later'- by left arm parralel - at that moment, maximum pressure in your lead foot (pushing into the ground forward and left); triggers an aggresive pivot magic, only then the left shoulder goes up and through by sheer momentum; creating space for your club (that many think they don't have by 'lowering' their lead shoulder/body earlier)

I like that description.

[Hilts1969]

3 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

It has to happen 'slowly' to let everything sync up 'lower' & 'later'- by left arm parralel - at that moment, maximum pressure in your lead foot (pushing into the ground forward and left); triggers an aggresive pivot magic, only then the left shoulder goes up and through by sheer momentum; creating space for your club (that many think they don't have by 'lowering' their lead shoulder/body earlier)

 

Yeah i need to find trust in it. I shallow with the arms but the pivot isn’t getting low enough because I think I’m going to dump the club into the ground.  I stop going down and dump the club. It’s funny because I thought shallowing would rectify my habit of staying tall and throwing my arms. 

 

I think I know what gankas means by eating the ball and I saw a video from someone whose name slips my mind who said get your left shoulder low forever.  It feels like a Japanese good morning to me at P6 but it’s only a few inches lower at impact than usual. 

 

I certainly have to open up my hips and extend left thru impact.  If a 60 degree wedge is giving me problems in slow motion god knows what will happen when i get longer clubs in my hands.

[JayMas]

10 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You are not casting or firing the right arm. You're ulnar deviating and flexing the left wrist alone. That motion in conjunction with a bump/recentering does all the magic. From there you just turn as hard as you want. 

To be fair (maybe I'm wrong), but the right wrist is going through extension/radial deviation because the left wrist flexes/ulnar deviates. So if you flip it and cast by extending/radial deviating the right wrist toward 8, you'd still get the left wrist in flexion/ulnar deviation like it should be. It's really the same move generated through right side thoughts/feels vs. left side.

 

If I understand Monte in Efficient Swing, he literally teaches that to people who feel better doing right handed things.

 

So maybe "firing" the right arm toward 8 can accomplish that? But firing the right arm overall feels a little scary vague to me personally, as the angle of that and what it means to the wrists doesn't necessarily indicate the wrists are working properly.

Edited February 17, 2021 by JayMas

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, JayMas said:

To be fair (maybe I'm wrong), but the right wrist is going through extension/radial deviation because the left wrist flexes/ulnar deviates. So if you flip it and cast by extending/radial deviating the right wrist toward 8, you'd still get the left wrist in flexion/ulnar deviation like it should be. It's really the same move generated through right side thoughts/feels vs. left side.

 

If I understand Monte in Efficient Swing, he literally teaches that to people who feel better doing right handed things.

 

So maybe "firing" the right arm toward 8 can accomplish that? But firing the right arm overall feels a little scary vague to me personally, as the angle of that and what it means to the wrists doesn't necessarily indicate the wrists are working properly.

You're absolutely correct. Sorry, I'm left-handed playing righty and kinda forgot that we have two arms!

[JayMas]

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You're absolutely correct. Sorry, I'm left-handed playing righty and kinda forgot that we have two arms!

Totally understandable! Same thing happens to me sometimes even though I'm a righty playing righty. I honestly find left hand things resonate better with me when it comes to the golf swing. No idea why.

 

Related question, is your left handed playing righty just something that happened when you were young or kind of similar to how my brother is (he throws with his right hand but swings lefty)?

[thesamwise]

Love this thread and this swing.

 

I've been working on this for a while now and shot my best round ever two weeks ago and then nearly beat it on Monday. Hit 61% of greens and then 51%, which is great for me, as irons had been my weakness. I lost it about three weeks ago and realized that I was getting lazy with the no-turn part of the backswing--I was turning my hips too much, which threw everything out of sync.

 

When I focus on the no-turn part and then the first cast, my pivot works perfectly and I end up with a well-balanced swing. The feeling I've noticed is that I have so much room to swing the club through. 

 

I know I can get better if I get more technical, but this is just too much fun right now. 

 

Thanks, Monte, for such a great vid. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by thesamwise

[TheDeanAbides]

49 minutes ago, JayMas said:

Totally understandable! Same thing happens to me sometimes even though I'm a righty playing righty. I honestly find left hand things resonate better with me when it comes to the golf swing. No idea why.

 

Related question, is your left handed playing righty just something that happened when you were young or kind of similar to how my brother is (he throws with his right hand but swings lefty)?

I'm not sure, tbh. I do play cricket and bat right handed, but play all racket sports left-handed. 

 

The only clubs available to me were righty as a kid, but I never even considered there being a difference. I'm glad as I feel like I've always been very straight because of it. 

[TheDeanAbides]

49 minutes ago, thesamwise said:

Love this thread and this swing.

 

I've been working on this for a while now and shot my best round ever two weeks ago and then nearly beat it on Monday. Hit 61% of greens and then 51%, which is great for me, as irons had been my weakness. I lost it about three weeks ago and realized that I was getting lazy with the no-turn part of the backswing--I was turning my hips too much, which threw everything out of sync.

 

When I focus on the no-turn part and then the first cast, my pivot works perfectly and I end up with a well-balanced swing. The feeling I've noticed is that I have so much room to swing the club through. 

 

I know I can get better if I get more technical, but this is just too much fun right now. 

 

Thanks, Monte, for such a great vid. 

I'd be interested to see that swing because it's almost impossible to turn the hips too much on the backswing. 

 

Well played though. 🙂

[JayMas]

7 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I'm not sure, tbh. I do play cricket and bat right handed, but play all racket sports left-handed. 

 

The only clubs available to me were righty as a kid, but I never even considered there being a difference. I'm glad as I feel like I've always been very straight because of it. 

👍👍 That's very interesting, that you're rackets left handed. Guess it just goes to show, start something early enough you can really ingrain it.

[coops]

9 hours ago, JayMas said:

Totally understandable! Same thing happens to me sometimes even though I'm a righty playing righty. I honestly find left hand things resonate better with me when it comes to the golf swing. No idea why.

 

Related question, is your left handed playing righty just something that happened when you were young or kind of similar to how my brother is (he throws with his right hand but swings lefty)?

 

I'm another Lefty playing golf right handed...

Write left handed, throw a ball left handed, kick left footed, tennis/squash/badminton play left handed, use a spoon in my left hand, left eye dominant..

 

But swing a baseball bat, or golf club, or cricket bat RIGHT handed - all due I think to school days where we played field hockey... and in field hockey you can NOT swing left handed, so became accustomed to any two handed swinging motion (cricket, hockey, baseball, golf etc) is 'right handed' style - but a single handed swing is left handed. Used to have a decent top spin tennis one arm (left) backhand on a low bouncing grass court which is kind of how a golf swing can feel for me as I do feel more control with my left arm/hand.

 

I once (many years ago) got so fed up with my swing, that I wondered if I was standing on the wrong side of the ball 😉 - and since my Dad was lefty in golf, I borrowed a 7 iron when I next went to the range... blimey. Was bad enough trying to get my hands on the club properly as a lefty.. but I could literally NOT make a backswing. Not even start it - like it was now hard wired in me to turn to my right.. gave up after not even hitting a ball, lol.

 

 

ps I think this may be why Monte's NTC video has helped my swing so much... I could never really get my right elbow to feel like it was leading (like in a right handed throw), because I am after all left handed.

I kind of prefer for me as a lefty to get the wrist movement in transition for that cast A with my left hand - and that shallows the club and incidentally gets that right elbow following the belly button as I think I heard Monte describing it as another feel.

Edited February 18, 2021 by coops

[TheDeanAbides]

3 hours ago, coops said:

 

I'm another Lefty playing golf right handed...

Write left handed, throw a ball left handed, kick left footed, tennis/squash/badminton play left handed, use a spoon in my left hand, left eye dominant..

 

But swing a baseball bat, or golf club, or cricket bat RIGHT handed - all due I think to school days where we played field hockey... and in field hockey you can NOT swing left handed, so became accustomed to any two handed swinging motion (cricket, hockey, baseball, golf etc) is 'right handed' style - but a single handed swing is left handed. Used to have a decent top spin tennis one arm (left) backhand on a low bouncing grass court which is kind of how a golf swing can feel for me as I do feel more control with my left arm/hand.

 

I once (many years ago) got so fed up with my swing, that I wondered if I was standing on the wrong side of the ball 😉 - and since my Dad was lefty in golf, I borrowed a 7 iron when I next went to the range... blimey. Was bad enough trying to get my hands on the club properly as a lefty.. but I could literally NOT make a backswing. Not even start it - like it was now hard wired in me to turn to my right.. gave up after not even hitting a ball, lol.

 

 

ps I think this may be why Monte's NTC video has helped my swing so much... I could never really get my right elbow to feel like it was leading (like in a right handed throw), because I am after all left handed.

I kind of prefer for me as a lefty to get the wrist movement in transition for that cast A with my left hand - and that shallows the club and incidentally gets that right elbow following the belly button as I think I heard Monte describing it as another feel.

My story is almost exactly the same. I do all the same things lefty as you, and I cannot swing a golf club left-handed at all.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Finally able to get back out and work some, seeing some positive signs, biggest issue seems to be getting the club to stop crossing the line so much as it falls, I guess that's going to take continued work with the cast A portion. But I think I'm on the right track.

 

 

Edit: Lesson with Monte this weekend to dive into it more. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by TLUBulldogGolf

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Finally able to get back out and work some, seeing some positive signs, biggest issue seems to be getting the club to stop crossing the line so much as it falls, I guess that's going to take continued work with the cast A portion. But I think I'm on the right track.

 

 

Edit: Lesson with Monte this weekend to dive into it more. 

What happens when you don't pause at the top? It'll be interesting to see what Monte says. 🙂