Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[games]

9 hours ago, higgle-the-elder said:

Like some others in this thread, I struggled with hooks after starting this program, especially with my driver and longer clubs. I finally got fed up and started opening the face a bit at address with all my clubs and that’s when everything started clicking. I feel like I can fully release the club without fear of the ball going left.

 

Welcome!  An open face at address "invites" me to approach the club from the inside to swing out.  Also, I find what you are finding in that I can make small adjustments with predictable outcome of those adjustments.

 

Additionally, I'm finding I am more in tune with alignment and "start line."  If I hit my start line but see a lot of curvature, it's usually my alignment is out of whack.

[KUSwaff]

Question about the no turn/cast concept: 

 

I am right handed, but play left handed (like Phil Mickelson). Everything I have ever understood about the concept makes a ton of sense for a right hand dominant golfer playing from the right side, because their dominant "throwing hand" is the trail hand, so it is much easier to grasp that concept when you can imagine throwing a ball/skipping a stone after the wrists are set. 

 

Is there an image or "feel" to accomplish the same thing when your dominant hand is the lead hand? 

[TheDeanAbides]

36 minutes ago, KUSwaff said:

Question about the no turn/cast concept: 

 

I am right handed, but play left handed (like Phil Mickelson). Everything I have ever understood about the concept makes a ton of sense for a right hand dominant golfer playing from the right side, because their dominant "throwing hand" is the trail hand, so it is much easier to grasp that concept when you can imagine throwing a ball/skipping a stone after the wrists are set. 

 

Is there an image or "feel" to accomplish the same thing when your dominant hand is the lead hand? 

Don't overthink it. I'm a lefty who plays righty and I've had no issues. Your hands are a unit so think of them as one. 

 

If anything it should be easier to feel cast a with your top hand being dominant. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[games]

1 hour ago, KUSwaff said:

Question about the no turn/cast concept: 

 

I am right handed, but play left handed (like Phil Mickelson). Everything I have ever understood about the concept makes a ton of sense for a right hand dominant golfer playing from the right side, because their dominant "throwing hand" is the trail hand, so it is much easier to grasp that concept when you can imagine throwing a ball/skipping a stone after the wrists are set. 

 

Is there an image or "feel" to accomplish the same thing when your dominant hand is the lead hand? 

 

I'm lefty playing right-handed.  There is no disadvantage on any of the key movements.  I maintain a strong grip to help transition from Cast A through Cast B.

[higgle-the-elder]

On 7/17/2021 at 2:55 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Post a video.

 

I don't have video to post, but I took some for my own reference after you responded. It appears I'm still not incorporating Cast A at all. I'm basically just throwing the butt of the handle at the ball like I always have, getting too steep, and then flipping/chicken-winging at impact. It's really ugly.

 

Through process of elimination, I'd say what's helped my swing since starting the NTC drills is the no-turn part. I've always had a problem with swaying and not getting back to my lead foot, but even with these other swing flaws not turning has apparently allowed me to make much better contact and shoot lower scores.

 

One thing I've noticed is that not turning seems to make Cast A more difficult for me for some reason. Not sure why. If I take a big backswing, it feels easier to exaggerate Cast A, almost like I have more time to do it before starting the downswing. Think the Justin Rose drill where he drops his arms with his back to the target. However, that hasn't helped my ballstriking the way not turning has. Just food for thought.

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, higgle-the-elder said:

 

I don't have video to post, but I took some for my own reference after you responded. It appears I'm still not incorporating Cast A at all. I'm basically just throwing the butt of the handle at the ball like I always have, getting too steep, and then flipping/chicken-winging at impact. It's really ugly.

 

Through process of elimination, I'd say what's helped my swing since starting the NTC drills is the no-turn part. I've always had a problem with swaying and not getting back to my lead foot, but even with these other swing flaws not turning has apparently allowed me to make much better contact and shoot lower scores.

 

One thing I've noticed is that not turning seems to make Cast A more difficult for me for some reason. Not sure why. If I take a big backswing, it feels easier to exaggerate Cast A, almost like I have more time to do it before starting the downswing. Think the Justin Rose drill where he drops his arms with his back to the target. However, that hasn't helped my ballstriking the way not turning has. Just food for thought.

Something else is going on. Honestly, when your swing is working efficiently you'll feel like you have more time to hit the ball, but you won't need to do it with a long BS. 

 

Why can't you post the video?

[higgle-the-elder]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Something else is going on. Honestly, when your swing is working efficiently you'll feel like you have more time to hit the ball, but you won't need to do it with a long BS. 

 

Why can't you post the video?

 

Appreciate the response. I wasn't happy with the camera angles so I'd like to take some better ones when I have more time.

[TheDeanAbides]

34 minutes ago, higgle-the-elder said:

 

Appreciate the response. I wasn't happy with the camera angles so I'd like to take some better ones when I have more time.

Sounds like a plan. With that in mind, don't analyse the ones you have too much. 

[calvin4w]

Bought NTC this week after working on UTB, D4D, Complete wedges series, Efficient swing as well as the original NTC YouTube video over the past year.

 

I found this new version of NTC to be very helpful and expand on a lot of the 'no turn' drills that have appeared in the past videos. The ulnar deviation and and left wrist flexion is a very new feel and after a week I'm still having trouble with cast A when putting the steps together. I can get everything up to Cast A in a pretty fluid motion, but I have to pause and do a small cast to 8 before setting my wrist again and swinging. Also like many others, my wrist is pretty sore.

 

I was wondering if anyone else finds similarities between Cast A and the other shallowing feels Monte has used in the past (working the elbow towards the belly button, getting shoulder off chin, secondary tilt). The examples I gave are all feels that I've really liked an had no trouble integrating, and my thought is that if I can add a little wrist flexion and ulnar deviation to one of those feels, it might help with the hiccup. For some reason, the Cast A feel doesn't trigger a downswing for me the same way getting shoulder off chin and elbow to belly button does, and when I think about casting the rest of my body forgets what to do and I end up just making wrist movements. 

 

Cast B seems very familiar too, I tried to look through the other videos to find what it reminded me of but couldn't pinpoint it. I think it was in UTB or wedges video where Monte breaks down a partial wedge shot as a shallowing and then an almost flipping wrist-casting motion that seems like cast B. But without confidence I was doing Cast A correctly I wasn't sure my cast b feel was quite right either.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

35 minutes ago, calvin4w said:

Bought NTC this week after working on UTB, D4D, Complete wedges series, Efficient swing as well as the original NTC YouTube video over the past year.

 

I found this new version of NTC to be very helpful and expand on a lot of the 'no turn' drills that have appeared in the past videos. The ulnar deviation and and left wrist flexion is a very new feel and after a week I'm still having trouble with cast A when putting the steps together. I can get everything up to Cast A in a pretty fluid motion, but I have to pause and do a small cast to 8 before setting my wrist again and swinging. Also like many others, my wrist is pretty sore.

 

I was wondering if anyone else finds similarities between Cast A and the other shallowing feels Monte has used in the past (working the elbow towards the belly button, getting shoulder off chin, secondary tilt). The examples I gave are all feels that I've really liked an had no trouble integrating, and my thought is that if I can add a little wrist flexion and ulnar deviation to one of those feels, it might help with the hiccup. For some reason, the Cast A feel doesn't trigger a downswing for me the same way getting shoulder off chin and elbow to belly button does, and when I think about casting the rest of my body forgets what to do and I end up just making wrist movements. 

 

Cast B seems very familiar too, I tried to look through the other videos to find what it reminded me of but couldn't pinpoint it. I think it was in UTB or wedges video where Monte breaks down a partial wedge shot as a shallowing and then an almost flipping wrist-casting motion that seems like cast B. But without confidence I was doing Cast A correctly I wasn't sure my cast b feel was quite right either.

 

It takes time for the brain to reprocess this move. Just do lots of slow motion swings and the cast A set and turn drill. 

 

I found that doing cast A alongside the Justin Rose drill worked wonders. So that would be Monte's bump, dump and turn, but with cast A as part of the dump. 

[Hilts1969]

4 hours ago, calvin4w said:

Bought NTC this week after working on UTB, D4D, Complete wedges series, Efficient swing as well as the original NTC YouTube video over the past year.

 

I found this new version of NTC to be very helpful and expand on a lot of the 'no turn' drills that have appeared in the past videos. The ulnar deviation and and left wrist flexion is a very new feel and after a week I'm still having trouble with cast A when putting the steps together. I can get everything up to Cast A in a pretty fluid motion, but I have to pause and do a small cast to 8 before setting my wrist again and swinging. Also like many others, my wrist is pretty sore.

 

I was wondering if anyone else finds similarities between Cast A and the other shallowing feels Monte has used in the past (working the elbow towards the belly button, getting shoulder off chin, secondary tilt). The examples I gave are all feels that I've really liked an had no trouble integrating, and my thought is that if I can add a little wrist flexion and ulnar deviation to one of those feels, it might help with the hiccup. For some reason, the Cast A feel doesn't trigger a downswing for me the same way getting shoulder off chin and elbow to belly button does, and when I think about casting the rest of my body forgets what to do and I end up just making wrist movements. 

 

Cast B seems very familiar too, I tried to look through the other videos to find what it reminded me of but couldn't pinpoint it. I think it was in UTB or wedges video where Monte breaks down a partial wedge shot as a shallowing and then an almost flipping wrist-casting motion that seems like cast B. But without confidence I was doing Cast A correctly I wasn't sure my cast b feel was quite right either.

 

 

Same as me can't blend them both together, I don't think the notion that if you do cast A then the  rotation will follow automatically applies to everybody. Cast B does make you open up but it's too late for me by that stage 

[jds_mlb]

8 hours ago, calvin4w said:

Bought NTC this week after working on UTB, D4D, Complete wedges series, Efficient swing as well as the original NTC YouTube video over the past year.

 

I found this new version of NTC to be very helpful and expand on a lot of the 'no turn' drills that have appeared in the past videos. The ulnar deviation and and left wrist flexion is a very new feel and after a week I'm still having trouble with cast A when putting the steps together. I can get everything up to Cast A in a pretty fluid motion, but I have to pause and do a small cast to 8 before setting my wrist again and swinging. Also like many others, my wrist is pretty sore.

 

I was wondering if anyone else finds similarities between Cast A and the other shallowing feels Monte has used in the past (working the elbow towards the belly button, getting shoulder off chin, secondary tilt). The examples I gave are all feels that I've really liked an had no trouble integrating, and my thought is that if I can add a little wrist flexion and ulnar deviation to one of those feels, it might help with the hiccup. For some reason, the Cast A feel doesn't trigger a downswing for me the same way getting shoulder off chin and elbow to belly button does, and when I think about casting the rest of my body forgets what to do and I end up just making wrist movements. 

 

Cast B seems very familiar too, I tried to look through the other videos to find what it reminded me of but couldn't pinpoint it. I think it was in UTB or wedges video where Monte breaks down a partial wedge shot as a shallowing and then an almost flipping wrist-casting motion that seems like cast B. But without confidence I was doing Cast A correctly I wasn't sure my cast b feel was quite right either.

 

According to Monte that cast A move doesn’t have to be a big move. If you are starting with a flat or nearly flat wrist and add a couple degrees of a flexing motion that’s enough. It’s stopping you from doing the opposite which is cup/extend the wrist and get steep. You don’t need enough flex to make your wrist sore. 

[calvin4w]

15 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

It takes time for the brain to reprocess this move. Just do lots of slow motion swings and the cast A set and turn drill. 

 

I found that doing cast A alongside the Justin Rose drill worked wonders. So that would be Monte's bump, dump and turn, but with cast A as part of the dump. 

 

I thought of this too as I noticed on the range that when I was doing the cast A set drill, I always started the final turn with my hips and my arms would fall behind. In my normal swing I tend to get to my left side a little quickly and get OTT so I've done the Rose drill before. Tried putting them together with some swing at home today and it feels great! I've struggled with the rose drill in the past because I thought of it as slowing down every part of the start of the backswing, which threw my rhythm out of whack. The feel that really works for me is the AMG guys did a 'Justin Rose drill' video where one of them describes the feeling of increasing the angle of the lead arm at impact vs address. After that I realized that its really slowing or delaying your hips so that the arms/hands/club can get in optimal position to rotate into the ball and not be left behind.

 

 

11 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Same as me can't blend them both together, I don't think the notion that if you do cast A then the  rotation will follow automatically applies to everybody. Cast B does make you open up but it's too late for me by that stage 

 

The above might help with this. When you say its 'too late' I'm assuming you mean by the time you finish cast A you're already too far into your rotation because thats how I feel. I have always felt my hips as the start of my downswing so when I try to do Cast A my hips start rotating too and I end up with my arms way behind. What helped is what DeanAbides mentions above, doing the Rose staying closed drill and thinking about my hips following the arms. Ideally the feel would be hip rotation starts once hands get to the right position (p6), but as Justin rose says himself, the feel needs to be exaggerated because your hips and shoulders are never going to not turn at all and stay closed to wait for your arms (they'll start moving from the very start of your downswing). 

 

The key feel that got good results for me was to have my arms feel like they were moving down and behind and then leading my hips in the rotation.

 

[Hilts1969]

On 7/27/2021 at 11:44 PM, calvin4w said:

 

I thought of this too as I noticed on the range that when I was doing the cast A set drill, I always started the final turn with my hips and my arms would fall behind. In my normal swing I tend to get to my left side a little quickly and get OTT so I've done the Rose drill before. Tried putting them together with some swing at home today and it feels great! I've struggled with the rose drill in the past because I thought of it as slowing down every part of the start of the backswing, which threw my rhythm out of whack. The feel that really works for me is the AMG guys did a 'Justin Rose drill' video where one of them describes the feeling of increasing the angle of the lead arm at impact vs address. After that I realized that its really slowing or delaying your hips so that the arms/hands/club can get in optimal position to rotate into the ball and not be left behind.

 

 

 

The above might help with this. When you say its 'too late' I'm assuming you mean by the time you finish cast A you're already too far into your rotation because thats how I feel. I have always felt my hips as the start of my downswing so when I try to do Cast A my hips start rotating too and I end up with my arms way behind. What helped is what DeanAbides mentions above, doing the Rose staying closed drill and thinking about my hips following the arms. Ideally the feel would be hip rotation starts once hands get to the right position (p6), but as Justin rose says himself, the feel needs to be exaggerated because your hips and shoulders are never going to not turn at all and stay closed to wait for your arms (they'll start moving from the very start of your downswing). 

 

The key feel that got good results for me was to have my arms feel like they were moving down and behind and then leading my hips in the rotation.

 

 

Im kind of the opposite which shows how we all have our own individual issues, if I go back and concentrate on cast A my pivot becomes pretty much non functioning. Eventually I rotate but it’s far too late. There is an AMG video where they hold back the pivot and get the arms and club to the ball without a pivot. I become a slightly less extreme version of that. I need to speed up my pivot not hold it back. 

 

Speeding up my pivot whilst doing cast A then B is beyond me. 

[Mustu]

I drifted away from the no turn cast swing this spring.  I started concentrating on it again when I started my annual playing badly stretch.  I normally don't take any kind of rehearsal or practice swing.  However, the past couple of rounds I've been setting up to the ball, taking a back swing and then just unhinging my wrists a couple of times for cast A while looking down at the ball (rather than at the club).  I then take my actual swing.  When I swing badly I find that I'm probably casting more towards 6 o'clock rather than 8 o'clock.  This little rehearsal has helped me to cast correctly toward 8 o'clock and has worked pretty well for me.  Thought I'd share what's worked for me.

[DaveLeeNC]

I have run into some pretty serious physical issues (spinal stenosis related) that seriously hamper my ability to really work on NTC stuff  (or even play golf). But this is abundantly clear to me - using that concept, or more specifically the idea that you have to get your lead wrist bowed early, has helped my pitch and chip shots immensely. Have others noticed that? 

 

dave

[Will29]

3 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

I have run into some pretty serious physical issues (spinal stenosis related) that seriously hamper my ability to really work on NTC stuff  (or even play golf). But this is abundantly clear to me - using that concept, or more specifically the idea that you have to get your lead wrist bowed early, has helped my pitch and chip shots immensely. Have others noticed that? 

 

dave

I don’t have anything to add other than good luck to you sir. Hope this game doesnt get taken away from you. 

[DaveLeeNC]

11 hours ago, Will29 said:

I don’t have anything to add other than good luck to you sir. Hope this game doesnt get taken away from you. 

 

Thanks for the concern. The physical situation is only relevant because I discovered this seeming relationship with short chip/pitch shots when looking for a way to work on NTC principles when I could not do many consecutive full swings. 

 

dave

 

ps. I will admit that it is quite a shock to walk/carry my clubs with no problem at all on 2/23/21, and 3 days later (first time back on the course) I could not play golf out of a cart. 

[Dino81]

I purchased NTC about 3 weeks ago. I've been doing a ton of work over the last 8 months in the gym and have gotten longer and more stable while swinging, but would have rounds where I felt like my ball striking was really inconsistent, especially on approaches. I figured for the low cost, I had little to lose. 

 

After watching the cast portions of the video, I took a couple videos of my swing. While I wasn't consciously trying to "hold lag", man was I pulling that handle straight down and getting stuck. I knew I was struggling with early extension and a chicken wing, but NTC helped really identify that those things were EFFECTS of my position from the top, not flaws in themselves.

 

Turns out, the No Turn part was just as important for me as the cast. I was trying to create so much width I was swaying terribly to the right and not really turning. I'm a 5-6 handicap and found usefulness in every one of the 5 parts that Monte describes.

 

Put it to use this weekend for the first time "under the lights" during the yearly Invitational I play in. NTC is a game changer! My swing held up under pressure all weekend (despite way too many beers) and I had a framework to fall back on when I hit a less than stellar shot. It also helped straighten out the driver a little more and give me what felt like more consistent distance. I ended up on the plus side of scratch in strokes gained approach for the weekend and shot 77-75 in competition. @MonteScheinblum thank you! This framework is easy to digest, easy to practice, and for me was immediately beneficial!

[ewaldbeukes]

Just been on the NTC voyage! Started with the video series, then the Monte IG Q&A and then this thread including all the videos and supports that go with it… what a wonderful resource to have to work from!

 

Think the thing that stands out the most is as Monte says:

 

• Find the root cause
• Practice, Practice, Practice

 

I have two simple questions for the forum / Monte.

 

Question 1: Backswing

 

• Thank you for doing this NTC backswing, for years I have struggled (even getting down to scratch) with a "wide" backswing that came too far inside (because  and then had to go OTT to save it. However, in working on the inverse ie early wrist c0ck to 7 then body shift to 8 - is there such a thing as a right arm that is too straight? In most videos I see that right arm getting to 70-90 degrees. What is the downside of it say staying at 30 degrees (feels really wide)

 

Question 2: Downswing

 

• It is spoken of changing the pressure into the left side and keeping the belt buckle back. What is the role of the knee flex in the downswing to enable the belt to stay back? I have felt like a bit of a squat motion, which is really just me returning flexion to the right knee gives me the feel of the lower body slowing down appropriately and not spinning out.  Anyone able to comment on this? Concerned this might drop the right shoulder…

 

Thanks all!

[rchang72]

The added knee flex in the front leg is to give time to “recenter”. Monte just did IG post on this. Also checking out AMG golf on YouTube. This is one of their key moves 

[Hilts1969]

11 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Just been on the NTC voyage! Started with the video series, then the Monte IG Q&A and then this thread including all the videos and supports that go with it… what a wonderful resource to have to work from!

 

Think the thing that stands out the most is as Monte says:

 

• Find the root cause
• Practice, Practice, Practice

 

I have two simple questions for the forum / Monte.

 

Question 1: Backswing

 

• Thank you for doing this NTC backswing, for years I have struggled (even getting down to scratch) with a "wide" backswing that came too far inside (because  and then had to go OTT to save it. However, in working on the inverse ie early wrist c0ck to 7 then body shift to 8 - is there such a thing as a right arm that is too straight? In most videos I see that right arm getting to 70-90 degrees. What is the downside of it say staying at 30 degrees (feels really wide)

 

Question 2: Downswing

 

• It is spoken of changing the pressure into the left side and keeping the belt buckle back. What is the role of the knee flex in the downswing to enable the belt to stay back? I have felt like a bit of a squat motion, which is really just me returning flexion to the right knee gives me the feel of the lower body slowing down appropriately and not spinning out.  Anyone able to comment on this? Concerned this might drop the right shoulder…

 

Thanks all!

 

Is it possible to only have 30 degree bend? With a full shoulder turn and relaxed arms? 

 

The trail arm is also a lever that produces speed when you allow it to straighten. 

 

That would be a slow stiff robotic swing IMHO 

[ewaldbeukes]

38 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Is it possible to only have 30 degree bend? With a full shoulder turn and relaxed arms? 

 

The trail arm is also a lever that produces speed when you allow it to straighten. 

 

That would be a slow stiff robotic swing IMHO 

30 Degrees is more like the “feel” the real lets call it less than 90 degrees.

[Hilts1969]

1 hour ago, ewaldbeukes said:

30 Degrees is more like the “feel” the real lets call it less than 90 degrees.

 

Most pros are less than 90 from what I've heard between 75 and 85 seems the norm 

[Tpfol]

Pardon my ignorance, as I'm fairly new to this site and Monte's instruction. After a 15 year hiatus from golf, I became committed to playing again last year. I'm fascinated with the multitude of instruction that's available and after stumbling on to this thread, I took a look at Monte's youtube channel and website and am very impressed. So for those who are familiar I have a question. Are all of his video series a la carte, or are they all available if you sign up for an annual membership? (Like Gankas old site)

[GoGoErky]

16 minutes ago, Tpfol said:

Pardon my ignorance, as I'm fairly new to this site and Monte's instruction. After a 15 year hiatus from golf, I became committed to playing again last year. I'm fascinated with the multitude of instruction that's available and after stumbling on to this thread, I took a look at Monte's youtube channel and website and am very impressed. So for those who are familiar I have a question. Are all of his video series a la carte, or are they all available if you sign up for an annual membership? (Like Gankas old site)

A la carte

[games]

12 hours ago, Tpfol said:

Pardon my ignorance, as I'm fairly new to this site and Monte's instruction. After a 15 year hiatus from golf, I became committed to playing again last year. I'm fascinated with the multitude of instruction that's available and after stumbling on to this thread, I took a look at Monte's youtube channel and website and am very impressed. So for those who are familiar I have a question. Are all of his video series a la carte, or are they all available if you sign up for an annual membership? (Like Gankas old site)

It is ala carte for the videos. 

 

Based on that, I would either do a one-off video lesson with Monte for $90.  He'll send you some snips from Instagram and pay video that support his critique.  And in your questions back, you could ask him what video would be most beneficial for you to purchase.

 

Or, simply start with the new No Turn Cast for $30.  I've touted the benefits of the new NTC, which turned on a major light bulb for my image of the golf swing.  It's just a few basic keys (and don't sleep on the backswing video).  But, again, what I think is great is the quantitative approach Monte took with it.  Monte said (in a video interview he did for Hackmotion) the new NTC helps amateurs perform movements that meet key biometric measures of pro swings taken through tools like Hackmotion, BodiTrak, and GEARS.  This is the game changer in this video that no one is talking about! 

 

Yes, it's a primer with just a few variables, but it's rooted in factual, quantitative data.

[Chonchgolf]

I’ve noticed that my backswing already has a flexed lead (left) wrist at 8, which makes it kind of hard to throw and turn the wrist on cast A. I wonder if I have my wrist set at the back swing I can just hold it and throw it, if that makes any sense

[Tpfol]

All I can say is that was the best $27 I've spent in a very long time. Like many struggling golfers, the pursuit of shallowing the downswing has been an arduous and frustrating task. I've tried countless drills, swing path and backswing adjustments, and none of them hit on my biggest issue. So after my second range session working the technique, I was amazed at the handful of swings where the club dropped in the slot. It's a long road ahead since there were many clankers missing the mark but for once I feel I have something to work with. And all things considered, it isnt a complete overhaul, start from scratch swing change. Just a real good explanation and most important, shows how the angles/views we see can be misleading.

[Golfbeat]

21 hours ago, Chonchgolf said:

I’ve noticed that my backswing already has a flexed lead (left) wrist at 8, which makes it kind of hard to throw and turn the wrist on cast A. I wonder if I have my wrist set at the back swing I can just hold it and throw it, if that makes any sense

 

Possibly but it is hard to overdo the flexion of the left wrist. You need to experiment a bit with it.