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Monte's new No Turn - Cast


Hawkeye77

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^ I strongly feel the NTC should be the benchmark swing for all golfers. Austin, Torres, even Jack Nicklaus -- to name a few -- have alluded to it for years but none have actively taught it and explained the science behind it and how to actually implement it. Monte has. 

 

The best part about NTC is once you find the feel it is the easiest swing to repeat. Maybe more importantly, there is so little strain on the body. It feels effortless. My swing through the years has always felt not quite there. It never felt natural -- kind of like I was fighting something and couldn't quite find out how to shake it. NTC gave me that AH HA moment as I alluded to above. I just had to throw "conventional" golf wisdom out the window and implement this swing. All the years of thinking I've got it almost figured out or "I'm almost there" are gone. Now all I have to do is stick with this swing because it is THE swing. Practice will be to fine tune it and master it through reps and then those compensatory strategies will slowly fade away. Stick with it folks!

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3 minutes ago, BTP said:

Stick with it folks!

That's truly the hardest thing to do. Too many false promises and shiny objects. It's like asking a meth addict to stop using. No one has the patience nor the will if it doesn't work well immediately.

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I was a student with Monte back at Oak Creek and then took a break for a few years. I started to see him ~10 months into starting golf. Before seeing Monte, I saw a couple of local teachers that helped, but I felt like I wasn’t improving enough. (I know I was still new and I now understand that I shouldn’t have expected improvements so quickly). I would get some really good ball strikes and then I would also make some horrible shots immediately after. 

 

Monte helped me out quite a bit with my consistency with my irons, but my faults with my driver were the upper body sway on the downswing and slicing pretty bad. Seeing that I did have a good swing in me at times, Monte assured me that my swing could get me to my goals and that I needed to work on my sequencing to get the consistency that I’m seeking. That gave me confidence knowing that my swing was alright, but I had a few things I needed to work on.

 

I started playing again right before COVID, and I am finally back to where I was when I was first seeing Monte. My misses weren’t as bad as when I first saw Monte, but my consistency was still lacking. I picked up the new NTC video to try to support Monte. I watched the original foggy Oak Creek youtube video a few years back and while I understood what he was trying to say back then, I didn’t feel like it was a feel that would work for me. I even asked Monte in my lesson if this was something that I needed to work on and he told me no. This new video had so much more detail than the original video and I am so glad that I purchased it. The first cast is exactly the feeling that I get when I strike it pure. It’s a feel that I can tell when I do it, but had no idea how to replicate it. It’s amazing that something so simple can get that feeling that I was seeking for years. 

 

I read through every page of this thread as I was so excited about the improvements. I noticed that some people had issues with hooking it after watching the video. I had the same problem and recently started to figure some things out for me. I had a really strong right hand grip along with a strong left grip with driver. I would sometimes stripe it (~40% at best) and mostly slice or hit it fat the rest of the time. I think I was still having the sway issue that Monte called out in a previous lesson. After working on the first cast from the video, I started hooking drives hard for about 2 rounds. After weakening my right hand to where it probably should have been (slightly stronger than neutral pointing at my shoulder), I’m hitting so many more fairways and getting the right height I would expect compared to my irons and hybrids. I’ve always been a low ball driver compared to the rest of my bag. 

 

I thank you Monte for this video. While I’m not shooting in the 70’s yet, I just broke my personal best today. I also thank you for warning the viewers that you will NOT turn it around in a few days after watching the video for the first time. It’s going to take time and lots of repetition to get this to be natural. Yeah, I am still slicing it when I am making a horrible swing and I am also hitting it fat like some others have also posted. My body is still getting used to this feel and I am confident that I will eventually get it. I am seeing the majority of my shots improving, so I will continue to work on it through the good rounds and the bad..

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For me the critical part of NTC is that I already turn…. A bloke stopped me today and complimented me on how a big lad gets a deep turn……. That was with NTC!  ……

 

so what does my active turn look like? I probably get and 25 degrees and come out of posture.  It feels like you are cheating when you do the no turn and that you are making a false turn.  
 

I changed my posture to the one George bank as recommends where you are pretty stood up with rounded shoulders…. Hit some pearlers

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12 minutes ago, Tpfol said:

I think the brilliance of the NTC is that the "no turn" piece teaches how to turn/rotate properly and the "cast" part teaches how to prevent early extension. It's like a yoda mind meld sitch...

The no turn part is weird in how it just happens.  

 

For me my feel for no turn  is set the wrist (push down with left palm and bend right wrist back which lifts club up and away) and fold right elbow up like a bicep curl simultaneously.   I then check my position and I'm pretty much 3/4 swing position.

 

The cast part..... I'm genuinely stuck on.  I  use the no turn and do my downswing and get decent results but I desperately want that bowing left wrist and turn feel.  It's similar to clay Ballard's tennis racket drill and clearly the release/downswing I need 

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41 minutes ago, hafnia said:

The no turn part is weird in how it just happens.  

 

For me my feel for no turn  is set the wrist (push down with left palm and bend right wrist back which lifts club up and away) and fold right elbow up like a bicep curl simultaneously.   I then check my position and I'm pretty much 3/4 swing position.

 

The cast part..... I'm genuinely stuck on.  I  use the no turn and do my downswing and get decent results but I desperately want that bowing left wrist and turn feel.  It's similar to clay Ballard's tennis racket drill and clearly the release/downswing I need 

I am in no way a teacher and hopefully am not misinterpreting what Monte is preaching, but 2 things help me with the "cast" part

1) At range I do the step drill 4-5 times then try to duplicate in full swing. The set, rotate, "cast" and then fire. When I bow the L wrist I focus on the right elbow dropping straight down and the left wrist does its thing. I know I must look like an idiot on the range but it beats looking like an idiot on the course. Haha

2) I have a shaft with grip, and no club head, I practice the transition move at night when Im watching TV (basically when the family is in bed so they dont think Im a lunatic)

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1 hour ago, Tpfol said:

I am in no way a teacher and hopefully am not misinterpreting what Monte is preaching, but 2 things help me with the "cast" part

1) At range I do the step drill 4-5 times then try to duplicate in full swing. The set, rotate, "cast" and then fire. When I bow the L wrist I focus on the right elbow dropping straight down and the left wrist does its thing. I know I must look like an idiot on the range but it beats looking like an idiot on the course. Haha

2) I have a shaft with grip, and no club head, I practice the transition move at night when Im watching TV (basically when the family is in bed so they dont think Im a lunatic)

 

When you say right elbow dropping down do you mean you unfold it?  So my feel on backswing is that the right elbow fold elevates the club in front of me, so you unfold the elbow to lower it? 

 

I have my son's toddler club to use! Lol

Edited by hafnia
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17 minutes ago, hafnia said:

 

When you say right elbow dropping down do you mean you unfold it?  So my feel on backswing is that the right elbow fold elevates the club in front of me, so you unfold the elbow to lower it? 

 

I have my son's toddler club to use! Lol


I use Jake Hutt’s video to drop the right elbow. 

 I still bow the L wrist and feels like I’m doing the yo-yo throw while the left wrist is revving a motorcycle. If that makes any sense haha

Edited by Chonchgolf
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Anyone have any luck with just forgoing cast B and just focusing on cast A? For all I know I may be doing cast B unintentionally but I find that if I try and cast to 12 then my body just stalls and I flip. I found some success just thinking of cast A and torso facing target and doing both at full speed. The club releases and looks good on video but I think I was screwing myself up with the cast B part. 

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In my opinion, if you have a strong grip, you get some "Cast B" for free, every time you do Cast A.  Then, over time, Cast B can be "ingrained" as a timing move. 

 

I'm nowhere near it yet, but I do believe as you ingrain Cast B, you start to unlock more power.  But, again, I don't think you want to ingrain or force more Cast B at the expense of Cast A.

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1 hour ago, Tengu said:

Any suggestion how to best train the drills? Just one ball with cast drill A on the range followed by a real swing till the bucket runs dry?

 

Two things I am doing differently in rehearsal and set-up:

1) Take two practice swings behind the ball that are the no turn and the move to cast to 8'oclock, a slower motion swing into impact.

2) At address I have my hands up higher, a feeling of elbow straight and left wrist flat.

 

So I'd recommend perhaps just doing the no turn and cast to 8 as a drill and then just get that sensation when beating balls. Keep it simple. See where that gets you. For me, I had to rehearse the case move over and over and ultimately found that just getting my hands higher at address helped me for some reason feel the cast easier.

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16 hours ago, Chonchgolf said:


I use Jake Hutt’s video to drop the right elbow. 

 I still bow the L wrist and feels like I’m doing the yo-yo throw while the left wrist is revving a motorcycle. If that makes any sense haha

 

I love this bloke, brilliant.  What a great feel, look forward to trying this.

 

it’s annoying how it takes guys like Monte, Jim Waldron and Jake to debunk that illusions of golf.   Thanks for sharing……
 

do people use the same feels for half shots chipping etc?

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Hi All,  Is this just one specific video?  

 

Where does one get it?

 

Cheers.

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3 hours ago, hafnia said:

do people use the same feels for half shots chipping etc?

Watch this from Jake Hutt on your question.

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CEun_tinxfx/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

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These videos are kinda blowing my mind a little.  

 

I'm a low single digit, but really don't ever "throw" the club at the top....   I do struggle the most in my game with the longer clubs.  Going to def give these feels a try.

Edited by DNice26
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So how are you guys handling the NTC moves with less than a 3/4 or full swing? Are you doing a no turn 9-3 kind of thing where you make no conscious turn, or what? I've been thinking probably best to transition to a use the bounce kind of swing for those short pitches and swings...hinge it back then cast b all the way, just wondering what everyone else is doing.

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3 hours ago, Higglesworth said:

So how are you guys handling the NTC moves with less than a 3/4 or full swing? Are you doing a no turn 9-3 kind of thing where you make no conscious turn, or what? I've been thinking probably best to transition to a use the bounce kind of swing for those short pitches and swings...hinge it back then cast b all the way, just wondering what everyone else is doing.

 

NTC has really helped my pitching (and chipping, but to a lesser extent). For (as an example) trying to carry a SW maybe 35 yards, it is all about bowing the lead wrist and getting the shaft flatter than used to be my norm by the time my DS started - and all in one motion in this case. I found this quite helpful but there was no explicit Cast A or B involved (at least as I sensed things). 

 

dave

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I have been experimenting with the cast at the top of the swing and have found it to be very effective for my driver. I generally play a little fade and have never been able to draw my driver. But with the cast I am able to hit a slight draw with the most effortless swing that is rivaling some of my longest drives. 

 

Interesting tidbit in this video lesson, seems to be promoting the cast feel at transition (8:00 min mark):

 

 

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On 8/30/2021 at 12:16 PM, hafnia said:

 

When you say right elbow dropping down do you mean you unfold it?  So my feel on backswing is that the right elbow fold elevates the club in front of me, so you unfold the elbow to lower it? 

 

I have my son's toddler club to use! Lol

Re: Dropping the right elbow- I fight an across line move at top of backswing, it's the bain of my existence. So my right elbow has a tendency to point behind me as opposed to pointing straight down (the old waiter tray position).

So the transition part for me is huge. In Step 3 of NTC when Monte suggests the slight left knee flex, I have to make sure my right elbow gets vertical, so it drop straight down when the "cast" is executed.

My "normal" swing will actually have my right elbow kick out further behind me in transition resulting in a disastrous beyond steep downswing.

My practice sessions with no ball, no clubhead really help me work on that move.

I cant comment so much on the right elbow fold/unfold, other than I expect the right elbow angle to reach about 90 by left arm parallel in backswing, and the rest of its movement happens organically

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It works well because it negates all the popular bad swing cliché's like lag, turn and manipulate your hands this way or that and has you simply react to utilizing the momentum of the club throughout the athletic motion that is a decent golf swing.

 

Nobody needs body position cues to hit a baseball, tennis ball or hockey puck but somehow the golf "industry" thrives by making the mysterious golf swing out to be a lot more than it is.

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22 hours ago, nitram said:

Watch this from Jake Hutt on your question.

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CEun_tinxfx/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

again some real simplicity.....  on the cast element, my understanding from Montes videos is that the cast happens at the top for every club.... but I will bear this in mind when on the range.  Really look forward to the off season

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15 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

I have been experimenting with the cast at the top of the swing and have found it to be very effective for my driver. I generally play a little fade and have never been able to draw my driver. But with the cast I am able to hit a slight draw with the most effortless swing that is rivaling some of my longest drives. 

 

Interesting tidbit in this video lesson, seems to be promoting the cast feel at transition (8:00 min mark):

 

 

 

 

what I am genuinely excited about is that I feel for the first time in years I can confidently see what it is I need to ingrain in my swing.....

 

1.  The no turn backswing/downswing.  For me I just need to feel like my arms get to a position..... "turn, shoulder turn, pivot agggghhhhh!" such distracting and misleading words.  I recall a great day on the range last year and text myself some notes which read:- "push handle down as trigger, then flex right wrist back.  Don't turn - just keep the face of club looking at ball on backswing and make sure right shoulder stays back on downswing"    

 

my interpretation of what I was feeling could be translated into what the NTC is.  The first piece is the wrist set push handle down lifts the club, the right wrist flex gets it into impact position..... "DONT TURN" - keep the face looking at the ball is basically me not rolling club inside...... keeping right shoulder back is me doing the cast/axe move or the video above.....

 

I recall that night well, I was pureing 4 irons off the deck - I wanted to bottle the feel.

 

Im not sure if my feels that night were captured accurately enough to give myself a swing for life - but I do think they have commonalities with the themes we are seeing in this thread.

 

Best thread i've seen on a golf forum this is.

 

 

 

 

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so.... just on this.

 

When Jack Niklaus said "he needs to feel like his arms beat his shirt buttons to the ball" and Tiger woods in his video with Butch talking about arms down and no turning the hips.   Am I right in saying that this is kind of the cast / hammer stake to the right of you etc?

 

 

 

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