Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[Nickc]

I understand the principled of NTC especially the C bit and try and do this basically following ideas of Jack Nicklaus ..the feeling of releasing from the top and the Justin Rose drill. ...are  the drills in NTC good in helping to ensure this becomes a very smooth unconscious move? Or are they a bit bitty and you need to work out how to put them together?

 

edit: or are the new Broom lessons more apt for putting it all together in a flowing sequence?

Edited September 8, 2021 by Nickc
Clarity!

[TheDeanAbides]

14 minutes ago, Nickc said:

I understand the principled of NTC especially the C bit and try and do this basically following ideas of Jack Nicklaus ..the feeling of releasing from the top and the Justin Rose drill. ...are  the drills in NTC good in helping to ensure this becomes a very smooth unconscious move? Or are they a bit bitty and you need to work out how to put them together?

 

edit: or are the new Broom lessons more apt for putting it all together in a flowing sequence?

Nothing bitty at all. It's a complete, simple swing concept.

[Nickc]

19 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Nothing bitty at all. It's a complete, simple swing concept

Understand that ....it is just that all the drills from video descriptions  seem to be for different elements of the "complete ......concept" ..so do you need to work out how to put all the elements together into a single "simple swing"?

 

So for example some people in thread posting  things like they can get drills say for Cast B but can't put this together with cast A .... Not exact quote example but along those lines.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Nickc
A bit more

[games]

The "Broom" video connects Cast A with Cast B of NTC.

[Nickc]

13 minutes ago, games said:

The "Broom" video connects Cast A with Cast B of NTC.

Yes wondered from comments on Broom thread if this was the case.

Thanks.

[ralemb]

hi all, i am having issues with getting to flat and deep in the backswing although it feels already like having my hands at the same level like my head, but it isnt. From that position I am coming over the top , steep shaft , no lag because of already throwing away early and sometimes also shanks.

 

Watched the foggy London video and tried a bit on the range. backswing thought is exactly what I am already doing, but still too way behind but when I tried just firing right hand there have been the pure shanks immediately.

 

So i was getting back to my normal stuff. My pro tries to teach me laying down shaft in transition, he is not complaining about my backswing.

 

attached a video from today, just a pitching wedge where it not that bad with coming over the top like with a driver e.g. I am having issues with right hand to pushy to the ball already, no lag at all.. so I believe that I am one out of many where this idea does not make sense...could anybody agree?

 

i don't want to mix things up with my pro but the feedback here is so good ... I am confused...

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

21 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Understand that ....it is just that all the drills from video descriptions  seem to be for different elements of the "complete ......concept" ..so do you need to work out how to put all the elements together into a single "simple swing"?

 

So for example some people in thread posting  things like they can get drills say for Cast B but can't put this together with cast A .... Not exact quote example but along those lines.

 

 

 

 

There are four basic elements: no turn backswing, transition, cast A and cast B. 

 

Some people need all four to be put together. Some have a great backswing and just need cast A. Cast B can be incorporated later if it doesn't happen automatically. 

 

If you make changes you always need to work them into a swing, but the beauty of NTC is that there are no unnecessarily complicated parts. 

 

Get to P3 in a solid position, turn a bit, , transition and do cast A. 

 

Learn how to do cast A with the drill provided. 

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, ralemb said:

hi all, i am having issues with getting to flat and deep in the backswing although it feels already like having my hands at the same level like my head, but it isnt. From that position I am coming over the top , steep shaft , no lag because of already throwing away early and sometimes also shanks.

 

Watched the foggy London video and tried a bit on the range. backswing thought is exactly what I am already doing, but still too way behind but when I tried just firing right hand there have been the pure shanks immediately.

 

So i was getting back to my normal stuff. My pro tries to teach me laying down shaft in transition, he is not complaining about my backswing.

 

attached a video from today, just a pitching wedge where it not that bad with coming over the top like with a driver e.g. I am having issues with right hand to pushy to the ball already, no lag at all.. so I believe that I am one out of many where this idea does not make sense...could anybody agree?

 

i don't want to mix things up with my pro but the feedback here is so good ... I am confused...

 

 

 

Find a better pro. You can't play golf with that backswing. This has already been said many times on your own thread, my friend. 

 

More ankle bend at address, learn how the wrists work, learn how to move your arms to keep them in front of your turning torso, and then you might have a chance of shallowing the club. 

 

If you don't make that compensatory move from the top you'd never hit the ball. 

[ralemb]

thanks but I tried really a lot of pros - everybody was fine with "perfect" setup and nice backswing...that was not only one pro and the current one was already teacher of the year here in Germany and is pretty known - at least in Germany. I really cannot imagine that this is so bad and no pro is addressing it. its really tough to see it that way. 

 

but the questions was if the series helps with my current swing and the idea of my pro as it needs to fit together.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by ralemb
s

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, ralemb said:

thanks but I tried really a lot of pros - everybody was fine with "perfect" setup and nice backswing...that was not only one pro and the current one was already teacher of the year here in Germany and is pretty known - at least in Germany. I really cannot imagine that this is so bad and no pro is addressing it. its really tough to see it that way. 

 

 

Then be prepared to always have the same problems. You keep asking people here to help you but you're not willing to change. 

 

This certainly isn't the thread to discuss this. 

[ralemb]

Thats why I was asking NOT in my thread but here - to not get the same answers how bad my swing is but IF the series helps WITH my current swing. You are complaining now but you gave an answer although we are already in the other thread. Please send me your swing in a DM - would be very interested, this starts to sounds really strange to me...

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, ralemb said:

Thats why I was asking NOT in my thread but here - to not get the same answers how bad my swing is but IF the series helps WITH my current swing. You are complaining now but you gave an answer although we are already in the other thread. Please send me your swing in a DM - would be very interested, this starts to sounds really strange to me...

This thread is about NTC. 

 

The second line is where your hands need to be and the shaft needs to be pointing at left arm parallel. You're too deep and can't recover. 

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, ralemb said:

thanks but I tried really a lot of pros - everybody was fine with "perfect" setup and nice backswing...that was not only one pro and the current one was already teacher of the year here in Germany and is pretty known - at least in Germany. I really cannot imagine that this is so bad and no pro is addressing it. its really tough to see it that way. 

 

but the questions was if the series helps with my current swing and the idea of my pro as it needs to fit together.

 

 

Broom force will help you.  Your arms are super late.  That video is mostly about why people don’t sequence their arms correctly and how to do it.

[CasualLie]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

About 6 weeks ago I was on the range trying to ulnar deviate earlier.  The guy next to me told me my rehearsal was terrible, that I was casting and I needed to hold lag.  I thanked him for his advice, started rehearsing lag holding and he observed and gave me the thumbs up and directed me to hit some balls to show him I knew what he was telling me.  Those that have been to my golf schools know of my entertaining ability to shank on command.  I decided to have some fun and I shanked 5 balls in a row.  He left me alone after that. 😄

 

We can do roadshow.  I can TC Chen double chip on command 😉

[absoludicrous]

I beat my personal best again last weekend. I definitely have more to improve, but am enjoying seeing the results over time. It’s funny, but true that some people are going to need a little bit of this, where others will need a little bit of that. For me, the No Turn doesn’t really apply to me. But Cast A is where I am seeing the most improvement with my ball striking.

 

I know I need to work on this more, but I’ve hit the range about twice since I picked up the video a few months ago. I was going to the range trying to figure things out 2-3 times a week before I picked up the video. I do practice positioning slowly inside my house to get used to the feel and that definitely helps. It’s hard to convince myself to hit the range when I’m having so much fun on the course. I was so frustrated when I would hit a great shot and follow up with up with a horrible one next. Being able to recreate my “good shots” more consistently has made things fun again. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by absoludicrous

[Chonchgolf]

22 minutes ago, absoludicrous said:

I beat my personal best again last weekend. I definitely have more to improve, but am enjoying seeing the results over time. It’s funny, but true that some people are going to need a little bit of this, where others will need a little bit of that. For me, the No Turn doesn’t really apply to me. But Cast A is where I am seeing the most improvement with my ball striking.

 

I know I need to work on this more, but I’ve hit the range about twice since I picked up the video a few months ago. I was going to the range trying to figure things out 2-3 times a week before I picked up the video. I do practice positioning slowly inside my house to get used to the feel and that definitely helps. It’s hard to convince myself to hit the range when I’m having so much fun on the course. I was so frustrated when I would hit a great shot and follow up with up with a horrible one next. Being able to recreate my “good shots” more consistently has made things fun again. 

I agree 100% I’ve been mainly working on the backswing and no turn and cast a, I figure once I get that down I’ll work on cast b

[ralemb]

7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Broom force will help you.  Your arms are super late.  That video is mostly about why people don’t sequence their arms correctly and how to do it.

 

Thank you, Monte! I will give it a try but I only have a „regular“ broom, like a short one and not like in your video. I will do this instead of NTC, does that fit? Believe it or not but I am really the one out of many many where videos, drills and all that stuff ist not having any effect when I need to hit a regular ball after 😞

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

11 minutes ago, ralemb said:

 

Thank you, Monte! I will give it a try but I only have a „regular“ broom, like a short one and not like in your video. I will do this instead of NTC, does that fit? Believe it or not but I am really the one out of many many where videos, drills and all that stuff ist not having any effect when I need to hit a regular ball after 😞

 

 

We can all feel your pain, my friend. Golf is both very hard and very easy. If your body isn't moving correctly it's so hard to hit the ball without compensations, but if you put your body in more neutral positions the downswing (which after transition is pure reaction) will largely take care of itself. 

[hafnia]

17 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

Monte goes into pretty good detail with these moves, more than others. I've seen others teach the outward of the hands from the top (Jake Hutt, someone said he was S&T which is funny), Chris Como, Trevor Immelman and Gankas but not really in the detail Monte does. For me personally, the move/feel doesn't work too well. I lose feel of the clubhead and my arm structure too much, I also get too shallow but I probably didn't need to move in the first place, I've just tried them over the years. Just throwing that out there in case anyone else can relate.

 

this is why the post I made the other day about different instructors having different feels to achieve the same goal is critical - I think we can all whole heartedly agree that Monte was a pioneer in his approach, I for one dont think he would have any issue in other instructors describing alternative feels as long as the action gets done.

[Habitual Flipper]

12 hours ago, hafnia said:

 

this is why the post I made the other day about different instructors having different feels to achieve the same goal is critical - I think we can all whole heartedly agree that Monte was a pioneer in his approach, I for one dont think he would have any issue in other instructors describing alternative feels as long as the action gets done.

 

Exactly. I posted random video a few pages back that had some unknown instructor getting his student to perform a move that looked a lot like a cast move at the top. To be completely honest, the cast at the top was such a counterintuitive concept to me that I always blew it off as another weird golf tip and filed it away as such. I finally decided to take it seriously after reading this thread and started seeing more instructors talk about it's importance (Larry Cheung, Jake Hutt, Chirs Ryan, etc.). That lead me to buying the video access on rebelliongolf. A few range sessions in, and I'm striking my irons better than I have in the past 2 years. 

 

Someone labeled such videos being posted as parasites, where I see it more as validating a truly unique concept that was pioneered by Monte. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Habitual Flipper

[nitram]

I've been called worse, by better.

[MikeG]

I bought the video last night and watched it twice in its entirety and repeated a few sections after that. There's a lot of old school wisdom in there.  A lot of the big picture concepts reminded me of what Ernest Jones, MDLT, and even Jim Flick sometimes wrote. 

 

I mentioned in a post over in the equipment section that I'd stopped playing for 4+ years. No stompy-footed rage quit or even burnout, golf just stopped being a priority for me. My dad recently passed away, and among our many common interests, golf was at the top. It just feels right to start playing again with the enthusiasm that I had for about 20 years.

 

I've had 7 or 8 range sessions and a few loops around some practice holes at a local course. I've stayed in good physical shape while not playing, and a lot of things came back quicker than I thought they would. On the other hand, I've made a determined effort to not crank my shoulders/hips/arms in order to gain some day-to-day consistency that I've always lacked. The big turn comes naturally and easy for me, but just because I can do it, it doesn't mean it's good for my swing. While my clubface contact has been pretty solid considering the layoff, I was hitting some horrible high and short cuts throughout the bag, and everything into the wind ballooned and flew a club shorter than what I'd anticipated. I was also extremely steep at impact with grass and dirt marks only way out towards the toe.  

 

There's a lot to digest in the video, and I think that eventually Cast A will be the primary benefit for my swing. I went to the range tonight unsure of where to begin, but the one thing that immediately jumped out at me last night was when Monte talked about No Turn Transition. It might sound weird but the OTT move that Monte talks about was even worse for me with an abbreviated backswing compared to my longer backswing when I had time and space to recover from a move like that.  I spent most of 100+ shots tonight focusing on delaying the body turn at the start of the downswing. The results? The first was that it felt like I had acres of room to swing to impact without feeling stuck. The rest was kind of back to normal. I hit a lot of nice high and solid shots with my irons and mid(ish) trajectory drives*.  I also had lots of misses, but they were my normal misses: thin but playable iron shots that were slightly left of target and about half a club short or flushed hooks that flew a bazillion miles left of target. And I had grass and dirt marks on the center and heel of my clubs. It may not sound like a ringing endorsement, but now I have a foundation that I can begin focusing on the rest of the swing. 

 

*Cast A was a little difficult to feel and execute tonight with the irons, but as soon as I focused on it with the driver, my shots improved dramatically.

 

This will be a long process, but at least I'll have a long, miserable Nebraska winter to work on it without losing patience.  

 

Monte rocks. I've been a fan of his since his introduction at 4GEA a century and a half ago. 

[DaveLeeNC]

@MikeG Old news by now I guess, but I am sorry to hear about your father. 

 

I once took 25 years away from the game (like you, life got in the way). I did a bit of range work and the swing came back at a reasonable pace. But what I learned on my first hole of golf after 25 years was that if your first two putts are both 20 footers and you did not make the first one, it is going to be a long day on the greens (and it was). 

 

dave

[hafnia]

one of the critical things in the swing and probably the most misunderstood is that the arms don't travel laterally across the body, they move up and down -  the turn is what gives the arms the lateral look.

 

For me to get the no turn piece - I use the "arm swing illusion" feel where the wrists set and the club shaft lifts up to 4 oclock in front of me (if target is 12 oclock)..... if I do this slowly the body automatically turns the right amount and I get to where I need to be (7 oclock).    This may be due to the fact that for a long time I have rolled the club inside so I need to feel something more over corrective to get me in the right place.  I love this feel for short wedge shots - it gets me turning back and through with no hosel shots.

 

As monte said in his video - if you get to 7 o'clock on your backswing - you are fine to skip to transition and cast.  

 

Gonna buy the broom force video and hopefully that gives me the right feel to get the next part.

 

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

4 minutes ago, hafnia said:

one of the critical things in the swing and probably the most misunderstood is that the arms don't travel laterally across the body, they move up and down -  the turn is what gives the arms the lateral look.

 

For me to get the no turn piece - I use the "arm swing illusion" feel where the wrists set and the club shaft lifts up to 4 oclock in front of me (if target is 12 oclock)..... if I do this slowly the body automatically turns the right amount and I get to where I need to be (7 oclock).    This may be due to the fact that for a long time I have rolled the club inside so I need to feel something more over corrective to get me in the right place.  I love this feel for short wedge shots - it gets me turning back and through with no hosel shots.

 

As monte said in his video - if you get to 7 o'clock on your backswing - you are fine to skip to transition and cast.  

 

Gonna buy the broom force video and hopefully that gives me the right feel to get the next part.

 

 

 

 

100% agree. Understanding that the arms stay in front is critical to building an efficient swing. Get to P3 correctly and the backswing is nothing more than a small turn of the shoulders.

[hafnia]

9 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

100% agree. Understanding that the arms stay in front is critical to building an efficient swing. Get to P3 correctly and the backswing is nothing more than a small turn of the shoulders.

 

seriously though.... how many swings have been destroyed by people saying "just swing along the target line", you then move arms in line with target (lateral) + a turn and you are stuck......

 

I used to have people saying "why do you sound like you are trying to swing really hard at the ball - slow down!!!"    -   well now I know that the reason I was doing that was to put a superhuman effort in to get the arms from way behind me and beat the turn to the ball.  As soon as I started swing the club up in front of me I felt like I could talk whilst doing it... no effort.

 

Do they teach children to swing at ball ore do they teach them to lift in front of them? 

[TheDeanAbides]

30 minutes ago, hafnia said:

 

seriously though.... how many swings have been destroyed by people saying "just swing along the target line", you then move arms in line with target (lateral) + a turn and you are stuck......

 

I used to have people saying "why do you sound like you are trying to swing really hard at the ball - slow down!!!"    -   well now I know that the reason I was doing that was to put a superhuman effort in to get the arms from way behind me and beat the turn to the ball.  As soon as I started swing the club up in front of me I felt like I could talk whilst doing it... no effort.

 

Do they teach children to swing at ball ore do they teach them to lift in front of them? 

Almost nobody teaches the ASI. I think all good players intuitively understand it but I've only seen a couple of pros mention it. Jim W did the world a great service by highlighting it. 

 

 

[Hilts1969]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:17 AM, Chonchgolf said:

I agree 100% I’ve been mainly working on the backswing and no turn and cast a, I figure once I get that down I’ll work on cast b

 

Cast B is just a continuation of Cast A. Most including myself practice Cast A and naturally stop when the range of motion ends. 

 

Put yours hands in a golf grip in front of your face. Slowly do Cast A then stop. Do that back and forth several times and on the last one do it aggressively and allow sheer momentum to take the wrists where they naturally want to go.  Forearms rotate and that right wrist loses its extension and the left wrist gains extension.

 

Bingo Cast B. Unfortunately for me I can't stop using the right shoulder to help with Cast A to 8 o'clock so I'm dead and spend the rest of swing trying not to bury the club into the ground. 

 

I may have to purchase a large broom and give my neighbours a good laugh.

 

Damn those low ceilings:-)

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

The best way to practice integration of cast B is with P3 swings. 70% of our practice should be done like this anyway, and in addition to having loads more shots in your armoury it trains a proper cast B release. 

[BigTerp1524]

37 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

The best way to practice integration of cast B is with P3 swings. 70% of our practice should be done like this anyway, and in addition to having loads more shots in your armoury it trains a proper cast B release. 

 

Everything here has been 100% correct for myself. P3 swings almost force cast B or you end up pushing the shot right, at least that's how it was in my case. I also developed some pretty reliable half wedge and short iron shots from this work as well. I haven't swung a full wedge in my last several rounds and it's been a huge benefit.