Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[hafnia]

Bought broom force ..... Love what I've seen so far.  The various drills look like a more intuitive way for me to hit the cast from NTC. 

 

Looking forward to the off-season to implement it. 

[Hilts1969]

I think I'm going to have to preset the bowed left wrist in the backswing so I can concentrate on the ulnar and left shoulder down. 

 

My hands go out and shoulders level too quickly doing cast A. I know the whole concept is correct.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Hilts1969

[Paddy_2_Iron]

On 8/26/2020 at 4:59 PM, smh1 said:

I think what Monty is explaining here is excellent!  What was very interesting to me is that if I follow my backswing 7 to 8, then cast to 8 then 12, I was getting a pretty severe overdraw.  If I feel like I am hinging at 6, then cast inside to as close to 8 as I can, then out to 1, I am getting much better results.  I guess it all depends on where each individual feels their positions are to start with and the idea of casting the club back inside relative to that.

I experience that with my shorter irons.  8-5 is money. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Paddy_2_Iron

[Paddy_2_Iron]

21 hours ago, hafnia said:

Bought broom force ..... Love what I've seen so far.  The various drills look like a more intuitive way for me to hit the cast from NTC. 

 

Looking forward to the off-season to implement it. 

Can’t wait to check it out!  

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Any reason why my shorter irons hook with this swing but the longer stuff is easier to hit?   It feels the early cast tends to hook more but on the 7 iron for instance it goes.  
 

I also noticed I’ve lost some distance.  Wondering if the ball is spinning more.   Note just started doing this swing about 3 weeks ago

[benjo009]

This is probably going to be a long rambling post so TLDR; I started NTC last week.

 

I played golf a lot as a junior. Played off 11 but could shoot +1 or +2 on a good day. Life, uni, work got in the way so played once or twice a year if that for the last 13 years before rejoining a club last year now life is a bit more settled.

 

I started using the PlaneMate last November and it was a great aid for getting my backswing in order but I struggled with shallowing and felt like I was tilting to get the club going backwards and it never really felt right. I posted a bit in the PlaneMate thread last week with some troubles I was having and someone suggested I just sell it and do Monte's NTC instead but I ignored it as I had seen Monte mentioned a lot on here over the years but thought it was a bit of a cult. How wrong I was!

 

Played in a club comp on Thursday and shot my worst round of the year, a 93. Came home and went to go to the PlaneMate thread but saw this one first so clicked on it. After reading the first 5 pages I had bought the videos and have spent the last few days reading through this thread.

 

I played in another comp on Saturday and practiced cast A on my practice swing but then swung however I was swinging that day when hitting the ball. Had an OK round, certainly better that Thursday but one shot stood out. I hit the purest 4 iron I have ever hit off our 8th tee into the wind and the ball flight was higher than normal and powerful. My playing partners said they had never seen me hit an iron like it and it was 10-15 yards past where I would hit it normally with no wind. I spent the rest of the round chasing that feeling but that had me sold on NTC.

 

Had a range session on Sunday where again I concentrated on cast A but took 3 practice swings before every shot. I haven't really practiced properly ever and just hit balls at the range and usually a 70 ball basket lasts about 60-75 mins. This time after an hour I'd only hit about 25 balls and was completely worn out so apart from learning a new swing I am learning how to practice properly. I was hitting the ball off the shortest tee which was much higher than I usually tee but was hitting a lovely high draw (always been a drawer of the ball but never hit the ball this high). Hoping to get to our grass practice area this week to hit real balls as it didn't look like I was hitting the ball that far but I never trust distances at the driving  range anyway. The other thing that struck me was how inside I could see my club coming from. One of the problems I've had due to not shallowing with the PlaneMate is being on plane on the way back but also on the way through, no real OTT move but no shallowing either so it was great to see and feel.

 

As I got through the thread I saw it mentioned more and more to start at the beginning and work through the swing and drills in order. I've been practicing the backswing components over the last few days and my PlaneMate work had got me in a good position at P3 but I had a cupped left wrist so I have been working on that. It felt really odd as to flatten it I had to 'motorcycle' as much as I could but after re watching the drill A video Monte mentions that to get it flat you have to bend the right wrist pretty much to its full range of motion. The videos really do cover everything! Also been working on the second part of the back swing which as it turns out is the exact position the pro at my club tried to get me to when I had a lesson earlier in the year. I had struggled to get there consistently but doing the drill to 7 then 8 has really helped. Just got to get them both together now.

 

I'm under no illusions that this will not be a quick fix but after the way I had been playing recently I had already mentally prepared myself for a lot of work this winter. This is also the first time I have had a framework for a swing as in the past I have just swung the club however I swing it which has worked great at times but never given me anything to go back to when I wasn't playing well. I also started working with a personal trainer recently so looking forward to a big winter and seeing some results next year.

 

Sorry for the long rambling post, my mind is running wild with NTC thoughts as it feels like I've had my eyes opened to what I should be trying to do in the golf swing!

[nitram]

22 hours ago, benjo009 said:

This is probably going to be a long rambling post so TLDR; I started NTC last week.

 

I played golf a lot as a junior. Played off 11 but could shoot +1 or +2 on a good day. Life, uni, work got in the way so played once or twice a year if that for the last 13 years before rejoining a club last year now life is a bit more settled.

 

I started using the PlaneMate last November and it was a great aid for getting my backswing in order but I struggled with shallowing and felt like I was tilting to get the club going backwards and it never really felt right. I posted a bit in the PlaneMate thread last week with some troubles I was having and someone suggested I just sell it and do Monte's NTC instead but I ignored it as I had seen Monte mentioned a lot on here over the years but thought it was a bit of a cult. How wrong I was!

 

Played in a club comp on Thursday and shot my worst round of the year, a 93. Came home and went to go to the PlaneMate thread but saw this one first so clicked on it. After reading the first 5 pages I had bought the videos and have spent the last few days reading through this thread.

 

I played in another comp on Saturday and practiced cast A on my practice swing but then swung however I was swinging that day when hitting the ball. Had an OK round, certainly better that Thursday but one shot stood out. I hit the purest 4 iron I have ever hit off our 8th tee into the wind and the ball flight was higher than normal and powerful. My playing partners said they had never seen me hit an iron like it and it was 10-15 yards past where I would hit it normally with no wind. I spent the rest of the round chasing that feeling but that had me sold on NTC.

 

Had a range session on Sunday where again I concentrated on cast A but took 3 practice swings before every shot. I haven't really practiced properly ever and just hit balls at the range and usually a 70 ball basket lasts about 60-75 mins. This time after an hour I'd only hit about 25 balls and was completely worn out so apart from learning a new swing I am learning how to practice properly. I was hitting the ball off the shortest tee which was much higher than I usually tee but was hitting a lovely high draw (always been a drawer of the ball but never hit the ball this high). Hoping to get to our grass practice area this week to hit real balls as it didn't look like I was hitting the ball that far but I never trust distances at the driving  range anyway. The other thing that struck me was how inside I could see my club coming from. One of the problems I've had due to not shallowing with the PlaneMate is being on plane on the way back but also on the way through, no real OTT move but no shallowing either so it was great to see and feel.

 

As I got through the thread I saw it mentioned more and more to start at the beginning and work through the swing and drills in order. I've been practicing the backswing components over the last few days and my PlaneMate work had got me in a good position at P3 but I had a cupped left wrist so I have been working on that. It felt really odd as to flatten it I had to 'motorcycle' as much as I could but after re watching the drill A video Monte mentions that to get it flat you have to bend the right wrist pretty much to its full range of motion. The videos really do cover everything! Also been working on the second part of the back swing which as it turns out is the exact position the pro at my club tried to get me to when I had a lesson earlier in the year. I had struggled to get there consistently but doing the drill to 7 then 8 has really helped. Just got to get them both together now.

 

I'm under no illusions that this will not be a quick fix but after the way I had been playing recently I had already mentally prepared myself for a lot of work this winter. This is also the first time I have had a framework for a swing as in the past I have just swung the club however I swing it which has worked great at times but never given me anything to go back to when I wasn't playing well. I also started working with a personal trainer recently so looking forward to a big winter and seeing some results next year.

 

Sorry for the long rambling post, my mind is running wild with NTC thoughts as it feels like I've had my eyes opened to what I should be trying to do in the golf swing!

Ramble on young man, 'tis good to read another success story. 🍻

[benjo009]

Don't worry, I'm not going to post after every range session but just go back from 50 balls working on backswing A and B. Even on my best ball striking and scoring days I have never pured so many irons. Still having my fair share of pull hooks, pushes and other mishits as I would expect but have seen more than enough from the good to know this path and framework has a future for me. I can't get over how I've seen such positive results so quickly. Massively impressed, now time for lots of hard work.

[daphenom121]

After trying the NTC swing for a few months and getting snap hooks I tried to go back to my normal swing but was still hooking the ball.  I finally rewatched the video and tried it again and am hitting the ball the best I have ever hit.  I was a 9 handicap and got down to a 5.2 (a 71 will lead to an exceptional score penalty really quick!!).  I have been hitting a lot more greens but somehow making less birdies per round though my pars are up substantially and doubles are way down.  Last five rounds, I've hit 67% of fairways, 68% of greens but averaging 33 putts.   Birdie percentage went from 9% to 5% but par percentage jumped from 62% to 73%.  Guess I need to start working on my putting now!  A thing I have been struggling with using the NTC swing is the in between shots.  Somehow my 3/4 choked down swing goes almost the same as my full swing with the NTC just a bit lower flight so distance control has been an issue on my approaches.

[Rbsiedsc]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:15 AM, benjo009 said:

This is probably going to be a long rambling post so TLDR; I started NTC last week.

 

I played golf a lot as a junior. Played off 11 but could shoot +1 or +2 on a good day. Life, uni, work got in the way so played once or twice a year if that for the last 13 years before rejoining a club last year now life is a bit more settled.

 

I started using the PlaneMate last November and it was a great aid for getting my backswing in order but I struggled with shallowing and felt like I was tilting to get the club going backwards and it never really felt right. I posted a bit in the PlaneMate thread last week with some troubles I was having and someone suggested I just sell it and do Monte's NTC instead but I ignored it as I had seen Monte mentioned a lot on here over the years but thought it was a bit of a cult. How wrong I was!

 

Played in a club comp on Thursday and shot my worst round of the year, a 93. Came home and went to go to the PlaneMate thread but saw this one first so clicked on it. After reading the first 5 pages I had bought the videos and have spent the last few days reading through this thread.

 

I played in another comp on Saturday and practiced cast A on my practice swing but then swung however I was swinging that day when hitting the ball. Had an OK round, certainly better that Thursday but one shot stood out. I hit the purest 4 iron I have ever hit off our 8th tee into the wind and the ball flight was higher than normal and powerful. My playing partners said they had never seen me hit an iron like it and it was 10-15 yards past where I would hit it normally with no wind. I spent the rest of the round chasing that feeling but that had me sold on NTC.

 

Had a range session on Sunday where again I concentrated on cast A but took 3 practice swings before every shot. I haven't really practiced properly ever and just hit balls at the range and usually a 70 ball basket lasts about 60-75 mins. This time after an hour I'd only hit about 25 balls and was completely worn out so apart from learning a new swing I am learning how to practice properly. I was hitting the ball off the shortest tee which was much higher than I usually tee but was hitting a lovely high draw (always been a drawer of the ball but never hit the ball this high). Hoping to get to our grass practice area this week to hit real balls as it didn't look like I was hitting the ball that far but I never trust distances at the driving  range anyway. The other thing that struck me was how inside I could see my club coming from. One of the problems I've had due to not shallowing with the PlaneMate is being on plane on the way back but also on the way through, no real OTT move but no shallowing either so it was great to see and feel.

 

As I got through the thread I saw it mentioned more and more to start at the beginning and work through the swing and drills in order. I've been practicing the backswing components over the last few days and my PlaneMate work had got me in a good position at P3 but I had a cupped left wrist so I have been working on that. It felt really odd as to flatten it I had to 'motorcycle' as much as I could but after re watching the drill A video Monte mentions that to get it flat you have to bend the right wrist pretty much to its full range of motion. The videos really do cover everything! Also been working on the second part of the back swing which as it turns out is the exact position the pro at my club tried to get me to when I had a lesson earlier in the year. I had struggled to get there consistently but doing the drill to 7 then 8 has really helped. Just got to get them both together now.

 

I'm under no illusions that this will not be a quick fix but after the way I had been playing recently I had already mentally prepared myself for a lot of work this winter. This is also the first time I have had a framework for a swing as in the past I have just swung the club however I swing it which has worked great at times but never given me anything to go back to when I wasn't playing well. I also started working with a personal trainer recently so looking forward to a big winter and seeing some results next year.

 

Sorry for the long rambling post, my mind is running wild with NTC thoughts as it feels like I've had my eyes opened to what I should be trying to do in the golf swing!

So do you still have the PM or are you selling? I do NTC but still have the PM and am debating selling since it’s help my turn and pitching game. 

[Nickc]

On 9/14/2021 at 4:15 PM, benjo009 said:

I posted a bit in the PlaneMate thread last week with some troubles I was having and someone suggested I just sell it and do Monte's NTC

Think that may have been me...was a bit in jest but always (with absolutely no real proof) thought the  planemate was a bit snake oil ish.

[benjo009]

33 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Think that may have been me...was a bit in jest but always (with absolutely no real proof) thought the  planemate was a bit snake oil ish.

 

I think it was but thanks for opening my eyes. My PM has been great but NTC is the missing link for me that helps me understand the movements a bit more. The PM videos treat it as just do this and this with the band and you will hit it well rather than going into depth about wrists and other movements and thoughts.

 

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

So do you still have the PM or are you selling? I do NTC but still have the PM and am debating selling since it’s help my turn and pitching game. 

 

Unsure at the moment. It really helped me groove my takeaway and that has certainly helped at the start of NTC. Could I have got to the same point without the PM? Yes of course, but I liked the resistance aspect.

[ohakim82]

I think the pulling of the band on the Planemate mimics a manual shallowing move that you would use to then pivot through impact.  So to the extent it is "teaching you" anything on the full swing downswing, it is that.  Monte isn't really about a manual shallowing motion, so if you were using it with Monte's stuff, think it would be to keep your backswing tight and get feedback on your swing (basically just making sure you don't flip the band and burn your forearms with it).

Edited September 15, 2021 by ohakim82

[absoludicrous]

I started driving really bad last round. I went to the range today and was just as bad. I finally figured out that I was sucking the club too inside on the backswing. I never needed the No Turn part before, but it seems like I need to pay a little more attention to that now.

 

I hate that your swing will constantly change as you age and your body fails you on a daily basis. At least we have the information to know what we need to do to make an optimal swing. The hard part is consistently executing it.

[JetPilot]

Once I get to a good cast A position I’ll visualize where the club face will be square to the plane about 2 feet past impact.  I’ll make sure my lower body/legs are in a position of support….and then just let the club head rip to where I want it to go.   For me, knowing where I want the club head to end up is key…everything else seems to fall in line to get there.  

[Doodlebug87]

Seeking a little clarity here - once the hands have gone to 7, they then go to 8 before the transition in the drills - in the actual backswing does this happen or do hands go straight to 8? I've always done the latter but found my hands were getting too deep, so wondering if I've misinterpreted the sequence...

[EmpyNester]

What would be the best video to start with efficient swing or no turn cast.  Just getting back into golf at 50 and trying to work on the swing.

[nitram]

NTC and Broom Force combined.

[Coy M]

Anyone with a strong grip and fairly closed club face had any issues with this? 

[JetPilot]

On 9/17/2021 at 11:29 AM, Doodlebug87 said:

Seeking a little clarity here - once the hands have gone to 7, they then go to 8 before the transition in the drills - in the actual backswing does this happen or do hands go straight to 8? I've always done the latter but found my hands were getting too deep, so wondering if I've misinterpreted the sequence...

Take this for what it's worth....which may be very little.   And I may be dead wrong technically.....but what I have found is that, at the top, your hands/arms should be in such a position that when you throw away your vertical wrist hinge, the club is exactly on the downswing plane.  Now all you have to do is turn into impact and throw away your horizontal wrist hinge up the plane past impact.  Once I understood that objective, getting there and staying there became much easier.  

 

For me, I essentially just placed my hands to 7 and then just engaged my core to turn until I couldn't turn anymore.  My feel was place hands at 7....leave them there...and let my core turn to 8.  

 

 

It took me some trial and error, but once I understood that...I started playing my best golf.  

 

 

[GMN_02]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:17 AM, JetPilot said:

Take this for what it's worth....which may be very little.   And I may be dead wrong technically.....but what I have found is that, at the top, your hands/arms should be in such a position that when you throw away your vertical wrist hinge, the club is exactly on the downswing plane.  Now all you have to do is turn into impact and throw away your horizontal wrist hinge up the plane past impact.  Once I understood that objective, getting there and staying there became much easier.  

 

For me, I essentially just placed my hands to 7 and then just engaged my core to turn until I couldn't turn anymore.  My feel was place hands at 7....leave them there...and let my core turn to 8.  

 

 

It took me some trial and error, but once I understood that...I started playing my best golf.  

 

 

when you throw away your vertical wrist hinge, the club is exactly on the downswing plane

 

Thank you for this.  It may have been the thought that ties this all together for me.

[bortass]

On 9/21/2021 at 9:55 AM, nitram said:

NTC and Broom Force combined.

Agree with this. BroomForce has drills that made me actually understand what Monte was talking about with regard to transition in both NTC and Efficient Swing. That part never clicked for me before. NTC is also simpler than Efficient Swing. YMMV of course.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

I found that doing less casting in the shorter irons helped me out a ton.  9-gw just come down.  8-6 more turnings down the wrist.  Driver almost none

[Nickc]

I recently bought the NTC video(on offer after buying broom force) and have a question about the transition and the wrists.

In my back swing I already have the left wrist pretty flat / neutral at the top. My swing was then to "cast" the club I e lose the vertical wrist hinge as per what Monte describes BUT NOT flex / bow the left wrist as a part of this.

So I have been trying now to do this (just practice swings) as per NTC instructions. It feels a bit like a loop type swing ...I tried and used a few years ago... No problem....and feels ok though a little bit of strain on the lead fore arm when I do the bow the left wrist slightly.

 

Now to my question could one achieve the same by bowing the lead/left wrist at the top of the back swing and then casting/ ulnar deviating as per the instructions to 8 ish from this position.

What are the disadvantages of doing it this way and what are the advantages of following the NTC method of transition from neutral to bowed?

Thanks

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Nickc

[Shanker84]

4 hours ago, Nickc said:

 

 

Now to my question could one achieve the same by bowing the lead/left wrist at the top of the back swing and then casting/ ulnar deviating as per the instructions to 8 ish from this position.

What are the disadvantages of doing it this way and what are the advantages of following the NTC method of transition from neutral to bowed?

Thanks

 

 

 

Since Monte has said that the different parts of the swing should be added in one at a time, I've tried that before with decent success. Wasn't great but was easier for me to do than A and B. 

 

I think the issue with this is that for one you lose out on some club head speed that's gained when doing cast A but more importantly the cast is the part that brings the clubhead in on a shallower plane than the backswing. I think if you were to do this, you'd have to do some other sort of move to get the club approaching from the inside. 

 

I had a great ballstriking day one time doing this and I took some video and I was still massively over the top as opposed to when I can (semi) properly do the A+B and the club clearly shallows. 

[glk]

5 hours ago, Nickc said:

I recently bought the NTC video(on offer after buying broom force) and have a question about the transition and the wrists.

In my back swing I already have the left wrist pretty flat / neutral at the top. My swing was then to "cast" the club I e lose the vertical wrist hinge as per what Monte describes BUT NOT flex / bow the left wrist as a part of this.

So I have been trying now to do this (just practice swings) as per NTC instructions. It feels a bit like a loop type swing ...I tried and used a few years ago... No problem....and feels ok though a little bit of strain on the lead fore arm when I do the bow the left wrist slightly.

 

Now to my question could one achieve the same by bowing the lead/left wrist at the top of the back swing and then casting/ ulnar deviating as per the instructions to 8 ish from this position.

What are the disadvantages of doing it this way and what are the advantages of following the NTC method of transition from neutral to bowed?

Thanks

 

 

No problem.  Dj bows his max at the top and is pretty close to flat at impact.   Some guys don’t flex until almost release, Rory sabbitini,   But most do the move in transition - fwp noted in here that 70% of the tour pro 3D graph that he has seen, Jon Sinclair’s db, has some extension in lead wrist at the top.    
 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by glk

[Nickc]

27 minutes ago, glk said:

No problem.  Dj bows his max at the top and is pretty close to flat at impact.   Some guys don’t flex until almost release, Rory sabbitini,   But most do the move in transition - fwp noted in here that 70% of the tour pro 3D graph that he has seen, Jon Sinclair’s db, has some extension in lead wrist at the top.    
 

 

Thanks ...will see which best suits me as adjunct to my current (no deliberate/ conscious) bow.

[glk]

9 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Thanks ...will see which best suits me as adjunct to my current (no deliberate/ conscious) bow.

It can be an evolution.   When I first started doing it I could not consistently do it in transition so I used more of a get it flexed in the backswing move. as I refined my swing I moved toward the transition move.   Lots of moving parts involved so I find it easier to do what is simplist for oneself and as the swing develops certain motions can incorporated.   When I was first doing it I was also working on moving to an steep to shallow pattern from shallow to steep - working wrist motion at the same time just made things more difficult.   

Edited September 25, 2021 by glk

[Nickc]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:24 AM, Nickc said:

 

In my back swing I already have the left wrist pretty flat / neutral at the top. My swing was then to "cast" the club I e lose the vertical wrist hinge as per what Monte describes BUT NOT flex / bow the left wrist as a part of this.

So I have been trying now to do this (just practice swings) as per NTC instructions. It feels a bit like a loop type swing ...I tried and used a few years ago

Below is an example of the "loop" swing though a bit more recent video instruction from when I used it 

 

 

Maybe some (plus maybe me included) may find the "loop" feel easier to implement to achieve the same thing.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Nickc
Comment after video link.

[MonteScheinblum]

Seems applicable😜

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUaHOEmFhwa/?utm_medium=copy_link