Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[MrHateCoffee]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:46 AM, nitram said:

Watch this from Jake Hutt on your question.

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CEun_tinxfx/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Holy crap this might be the best golf tip I’ve ever seen!  I tried it at the range today and hit amazing shot after shot. It didn’t matter the method either… whether it was NTC, Venetos, or MDLT. It worked for all of them. 
 

For so many years I struggled with flipping. I tried looking ahead of the ball but all I needed to do was throw it behind the club. It seems like the most counterintuitive thing to do but it worked!

[nitram]

11 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

Holy crap this might be the best golf tip I’ve ever seen!  I tried it at the range today and hit amazing shot after shot. It didn’t matter the method either… whether it was NTC, Venetos, or MDLT. It worked for all of them. 
 

For so many years I struggled with flipping. I tried looking ahead of the ball but all I needed to do was throw it behind the club. It seems like the most counterintuitive thing to do but it worked!

Glad it helped you.

 

"Reverse every natural instinct and do the opposite of what you are inclined to do, and you will probably come very close to having a perfect golf swing" - Ben Hogan

[Shanker84]

I haven't seen this addressed yet on here and wondering if anyone has any ideas. 

 

I love the IDEA of NTC but have a real problem with doing it at speed. If I do the drill where I do cast A then pause and then go, it's good. Obviously the club head speed is extremely  low and essentially just a half shot so not playable but I'm getting nice compression, straight shots. Love it. 

 

The problem I have is when trying to do in a regular full wing without a Charles Barkley hitch, I end up not just doing the wrist/hands part but just doing a weird arm loop where I'm dropping them inside and going way under plane. I

 

The answer is likely just to focus on doing the Barkley drill for a billion balls and maybe over time be able to reduce it but I just haven't had any luck and I honestly don't have the time to dedicate to ten hours on the range a week doing this. I'm not expecting to nail it and go from a 13 to a 0 overnight by any means but does anyone have any idea on how to better implement this? Apparently my brain/body are too stupid to effectively use the drills in the video with any success. 

[ferrispgm]

1 hour ago, Shanker84 said:

I haven't seen this addressed yet on here and wondering if anyone has any ideas. 

 

I love the IDEA of NTC but have a real problem with doing it at speed. If I do the drill where I do cast A then pause and then go, it's good. Obviously the club head speed is extremely  low and essentially just a half shot so not playable but I'm getting nice compression, straight shots. Love it. 

 

The problem I have is when trying to do in a regular full wing without a Charles Barkley hitch, I end up not just doing the wrist/hands part but just doing a weird arm loop where I'm dropping them inside and going way under plane. I

 

The answer is likely just to focus on doing the Barkley drill for a billion balls and maybe over time be able to reduce it but I just haven't had any luck and I honestly don't have the time to dedicate to ten hours on the range a week doing this. I'm not expecting to nail it and go from a 13 to a 0 overnight by any means but does anyone have any idea on how to better implement this? Apparently my brain/body are too stupid to effectively use the drills in the video with any success. 

 

Do the drill a few times like 3 or 4 then take like 5 or so normal swings and try to feel the same motion.  IMO drills give you the feel of what needs to happen but when you make a regular swing you sometimes have to exaggerate that feel even more.  So if the drill is take it back, pause, flex wrist, swing....the actual swing will be more like: take it back and flex the crap out of the wrist as your first move down...guarantee it will barely move but it will feel extreme....Then when you go play you just play and don't worry about it and eventually the move will work its way into your swing...it takes time though. Takes me over a year to get something implemented and even after that I still do "tune ups" every so often.  To put Monte's infamous diet analogy in different terms...True long lasting weight loss takes time and dedication.  Diet pills and extreme dieting work in the short term but after a few everyone puts the weight back on...the same is true for swing changes. Quick fixes work for a few weeks but eventually they stop and sometimes make things worse.

 

A prime example...I'm working on getting my pressure shift to work more down instead of lateral....I take it back and pause, lower my pelvis a touch and then swing.  On my actual swing when I'm working on it....I feel like I'm almost doing a squat but on video I move down like an inch or two.  It's been 8 months and I'm just starting to get it when I go play but still have 3-5 disaster holes when I get too lateral and hit it off the planet.....but 2 months ago that was the case for 9 holes....just give it time.

[Shanker84]

2 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

 

Do the drill a few times like 3 or 4 then take like 5 or so normal swings and try to feel the same motion.  IMO drills give you the feel of what needs to happen but when you make a regular swing you sometimes have to exaggerate that feel even more.  So if the drill is take it back, pause, flex wrist, swing....the actual swing will be more like: take it back and flex the crap out of the wrist as your first move down...guarantee it will barely move but it will feel extreme....Then when you go play you just play and don't worry about it and eventually the move will work its way into your swing...it takes time though. Takes me over a year to get something implemented and even after that I still do "tune ups" every so often.  To put Monte's infamous diet analogy in different terms...True long lasting weight loss takes time and dedication.  Diet pills and extreme dieting work in the short term but after a few everyone puts the weight back on...the same is true for swing changes. Quick fixes work for a few weeks but eventually they stop and sometimes make things worse.

 

A prime example...I'm working on getting my pressure shift to work more down instead of lateral....I take it back and pause, lower my pelvis a touch and then swing.  On my actual swing when I'm working on it....I feel like I'm almost doing a squat but on video I move down like an inch or two.  It's been 8 months and I'm just starting to get it when I go play but still have 3-5 disaster holes when I get too lateral and hit it off the planet.....but 2 months ago that was the case for 9 holes....just give it time.

Appreciate it. 

[higgle-the-elder]

I've posted a few times here and in the Broom Force thread and wanted to give an update. I felt I had kind of plateaued with the NTC cast stuff and even started to regress a bit, so I was extremely excited about the Broom Force drills. I had a feeling they were exactly what I needed and they have really lived up to the hype. I'd been working on all the drills in my living room for a week or two and have since gone to the range a couple times. The real world results speak for themselves.

 

Fast forward to me checking Monte's Instagram the other day and seeing the wait drill. This drill immediately caused a light bulb moment: what if I combine that with Cast A in NTC? Cast A always made sense to me and sometimes worked, but as a long-term handle-yanker I had a hard time implementing it consistently.

 

Anyway, I raced back to the range and the results were unbelievable. Slowing down and giving myself more time to make Cast A and get the arms down slowly goes against every one of my instincts but at the same time feels like finding a pot of gold. After doing that drill a few times, I started incorporating it into full swings with kind of a Matsuyama-like tempo. Lots of bad shots, but the good shots produced easy distance.

 

As I ramped up to my more natural tempo, the wheels fell off a bit, but I'm starting to tell how important Cast A is for a first move down. A lot of people have told me over the years I'm too quick from the top and I should pause or let the club fall first, but that has never worked for me because I still ended up yanking the club after pausing. The wait drill with Cast A actually addresses it for me—it stops the yank down and creates the "pause" naturally by making the first move Cast A.

 

So, long story short is NTC is still great, but Broom Force and the wait drill are perfect compliments if you get stuck and can’t take it to the next level. Excited to keep working on drills throughout the winter and keep ingraining these moves into my muscle memory.

Edited October 3, 2021 by higgle-the-elder

[TheDeanAbides]

33 minutes ago, higgle-the-elder said:

I've posted a few times here and in the Broom Force thread and wanted to give an update. I felt I had kind of plateaued with the NTC cast stuff and even started to regress a bit, so I was extremely excited about the Broom Force drills. I had a feeling they were exactly what I needed and they have really lived up to the hype. I'd been working on all the drills in my living room for a week or two and have since gone to the range a couple times. The real world results speak for themselves.

 

Fast forward to me checking Monte's Instagram the other day and seeing the wait drill. This drill immediately caused a light bulb moment: what if I combine that with Cast A in NTC? Cast A always made sense to me and sometimes worked, but as a long-term handle-yanker I had a hard time implementing it consistently.

 

Anyway, I raced back to the range and the results were unbelievable. Slowing down and giving myself more time to make Cast A and get the arms down slowly goes against every one of my instincts but at the same time feels like finding a pot of gold. After doing that drill a few times, I started incorporating it into full swings with kind of a Matsuyama-like tempo. Lots of bad shots, but the good shots produced easy distance.

 

As I ramped up to my more natural tempo, the wheels fell off a bit, but I'm starting to tell how important Cast A is for a first move down. A lot of people have told me over the years I'm too quick from the top and I should pause or let the club fall first, but that has never worked for me because I still ended up yanking the club after pausing. The wait drill with Cast A actually addresses it for me—it stops the yank down and creates the "pause" naturally by making the first move Cast A.

 

So, long story short is NTC is still great, but Broom Force and the wait drill are perfect compliments if you get stuck and can take it to the next level. Excited to keep working on drills throughout the winter and keep ingraining these moves into my muscle memory.

Based on this I think the Justin Rose drill used in conjunction with cast A would work for you. 

[higgle-the-elder]

Just another follow up to my other follow ups 😆

 

Went out to a difficult course and played horribly overall. Shot 105 even though I broke 90 for the first time earlier this year after implementing the NTC ideas. It was a bit embarrassing as my partners shot 80, 82, and 90, but they all play multiple times per week and have about 20 years on me (age and golf experience). However, I will say this:

 

My driving was effortless and I felt like I had full control over the ball. I hit a handful of slight pulls and a couple fades, but just about everything else was close to dead straight. Could not have asked for a better day driving the ball. It was probably my best day ever off the tee from a confidence and results standpoint.

 

My iron play was by far the worst. I had no feel and things just weren't clicking. I hit a ton of pulls and chunks for some reason, which is weird because I don't tend to chunk irons anyone and my irons tend to be the most consistent. Usually I can get back on track a bit with some modifications (shortening my swing or staying centered) but it just wasn't working.

 

My chipping was bad and my putting was worse—six 3-putts!—but I attribute that to not having played in a few weeks and just having no feel. I also chunked two sand shots, and chunked a short chip two times in a row!

 

So if you turn those 3-putts into 2-putts and get rid of the 4 chunks, we're down to a 95, which isn't too far off from where I am normally. Maybe just a bad day with the one huge positive being my driving.

 

Sticking with it, and I might even send some swing videos to Monte for feedback so I can make sure I'm working on the right things in the off season.

[osueng02]

On 10/7/2021 at 4:25 PM, higgle-the-elder said:

My driving was effortless and I felt like I had full control over the ball. I hit a handful of slight pulls and a couple fades, but just about everything else was close to dead straight. Could not have asked for a better day driving the ball. It was probably my best day ever off the tee from a confidence and results standpoint.

 

My iron play was by far the worst. I had no feel and things just weren't clicking. I hit a ton of pulls and chunks for some reason, which is weird because I don't tend to chunk irons anyone and my irons tend to be the most consistent. Usually I can get back on track a bit with some modifications (shortening my swing or staying centered) but it just wasn't working.

 

My chipping was bad and my putting was worse—six 3-putts!—but I attribute that to not having played in a few weeks and just having no feel. I also chunked two sand shots, and chunked a short chip two times in a row!

 

Sticking with it, and I might even send some swing videos to Monte for feedback so I can make sure I'm working on the right things in the off season.

 

I read this and I think had the same experience on the course this week. My long time driver miss has been a hard block right that keeps going right. After practicing the drills from NTC for most of a month, I added in the Broomforce drills, and have been absorbing Monte's Instagram posts. This week my drives were straight or with a fade left.   What made it click for me this week was Monte's comments about keeping the back to the target and in comments he made in the Instagram Live post.

 

Contrast that to last week when my focus was on pure NTC half and full shots with my 56 and 60 wedges. Went out to the course and hit a few great wedge shots.

 

I too think online feedback will help and I am kicking myself that I didn't get NTC sooner because I likely would have tried to get some time on the lesson tee with him during a trip that had me in Laguna.

[berndgeurts]

Been sticking with the NTC program for over a year now and finally I can see the results. My transition has become so much better and all EE is gone. Slices are a thing of the past. 

I told myself that following NTC was something that will take 2-3 years to fully implement and I still think I have a good amount of practice ahead of me. But the program is already showing good results. 

My advice: stick with it. 

I also took it to my local pro and he said he could work with it and make a good combination with his views. He got me in to a good set up and back swing positions. From there I practiced transition and cast A a lot. Turned out to be a good combination.

[Hilts1969]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:39 PM, TheDeanAbides said:

Based on this I think the Justin Rose drill used in conjunction with cast A would work for you. 

 

There is enough of a difference between the Justin Rose drill and what the instagrams of Monte and Bryson are doing that I would stick with those. For those that haven’t noticed because we rarely see it from that angle is Bryson’s driver face. 

 

Rose hangs on to the hinge more in his drill so even though the arm shallowing is similar it’s not the same as cast A. He even mentions keeping lag. For handle pullers like me I don’t think it’s the way to go. 

[TheDeanAbides]

3 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

There is enough of a difference between the Justin Rose drill and what the instagrams of Monte and Bryson are doing that I would stick with those. For those that haven’t noticed because we rarely see it from that angle is Bryson’s driver face. 

 

Rose hangs on to the hinge more in his drill so even though the arm shallowing is similar it’s not the same as cast A. He even mentions keeping lag. For handle pullers like me I don’t think it’s the way to go. 

Monte recommends the JR drill a lot. I used it in conjunction with cast A. It's perfect for handle pullers if you recognise that it's the arm movement that you're using rather than his wrist conditions. 

[ohakim82]

For me, broomforce is way better than no turn cast if you are going to ignore Monte's advice and actually try to use the feels on the golf course.

 

If I think I need to transition with a move that lowersthe arms then generate speed towards the target, generally the ball works in the direction of the target and the misses are going to at least be playable.  Whereas, if I am trying to throw double casts from the top, all kinds of wild s*** can happen under pressure, lol.

[Hilts1969]

3 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Monte recommends the JR drill a lot. I used it in conjunction with cast A. It's perfect for handle pullers if you recognise that it's the arm movement that you're using rather than his wrist conditions. 

Like I said the difference is the wrist conditions ie ulnar 

[JetPilot]

I've been working on NTC for about six months.  Took a trip this weekend to visit some friends at their new home in a new state.  Played two rounds of golf on two challenging courses that I'd never seen before.  Shot 78/79 and couldn't have been happier with the way I played (I'm a 9 hcp).  I had several 3 putts and a couple of double bogeys each day due to bad swings.  Could have pretty easily been mid 70's each day.  

 

I'm at the point with my golf that I want to have a reliable swing, that gets the ball where I want it to go and have fun.  

 

Man...NTC has really gotten me there...and this is the first time I've really seen the results of that work.  I stayed very disciplined to NTC and the Justin Rose drill, and it stayed reliable for me through 36 holes on unfamiliar courses.  

 

I hate to rile up the golf gods....but man that swing concept works...and is fun!

[berndgeurts]

5 hours ago, JetPilot said:

I've been working on NTC for about six months.  Took a trip this weekend to visit some friends at their new home in a new state.  Played two rounds of golf on two challenging courses that I'd never seen before.  Shot 78/79 and couldn't have been happier with the way I played (I'm a 9 hcp).  I had several 3 putts and a couple of double bogeys each day due to bad swings.  Could have pretty easily been mid 70's each day.  

 

I'm at the point with my golf that I want to have a reliable swing, that gets the ball where I want it to go and have fun.  

 

Man...NTC has really gotten me there...and this is the first time I've really seen the results of that work.  I stayed very disciplined to NTC and the Justin Rose drill, and it stayed reliable for me through 36 holes on unfamiliar courses.  

 

I hate to rile up the golf gods....but man that swing concept works...and is fun!

Are you me on another continent? ☺️

[higgle-the-elder]

Question for @MonteScheinblum or anyone else knowledgeable: do the NTC and broom force feels work best with a neutral or even slightly across the line position at the top? I tend to be more flat/laid off at the top and casting the club feels very difficult at times because the club is already behind me. Getting the club more neutral or what feels across the line makes it feel like I have more room to throw the club toward 8 o'clock.

 

Feel free to set me straight if I'm way off here!

[kowalgolf]

2 hours ago, higgle-the-elder said:

Question for @MonteScheinblum or anyone else knowledgeable: do the NTC and broom force feels work best with a neutral or even slightly across the line position at the top? I tend to be more flat/laid off at the top and casting the club feels very difficult at times because the club is already behind me. Getting the club more neutral or what feels across the line makes it feel like I have more room to throw the club toward 8 o'clock.

 

Feel free to set me straight if I'm way off here!

Don't even think of that stuff. Broom Force and just the plastic bottle drill is enough to get you started. Vertical hinge with trail arm and for me the lead arm and how it rotates the brush to the ground behind and inside the plastic bottle has been a huge eye opener for me. 60 yrs. of frustration is replaced with hope and enjoyment. Buy it.

[Precis1on]

3 hours ago, higgle-the-elder said:

Question for @MonteScheinblum or anyone else knowledgeable: do the NTC and broom force feels work best with a neutral or even slightly across the line position at the top? I tend to be more flat/laid off at the top and casting the club feels very difficult at times because the club is already behind me. Getting the club more neutral or what feels across the line makes it feel like I have more room to throw the club toward 8 o'clock.

 

Feel free to set me straight if I'm way off here!

 

Doesn't matter so long as your laid off position isn't too extreme. You should still have some vertical hinge to work with, even if it's not a lot. NTC/Broom will work so long as you're matching up the pieces. 

[glk]

3 hours ago, higgle-the-elder said:

Question for @MonteScheinblum or anyone else knowledgeable: do the NTC and broom force feels work best with a neutral or even slightly across the line position at the top? I tend to be more flat/laid off at the top and casting the club feels very difficult at times because the club is already behind me. Getting the club more neutral or what feels across the line makes it feel like I have more room to throw the club toward 8 o'clock.

 

Feel free to set me straight if I'm way off here!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDe0DXYpjlx/

[higgle-the-elder]

53 minutes ago, glk said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDe0DXYpjlx/

 

Holy cow, well there we go! I tend to have a flatter/laid-off backswing, but I also take a long backswing. Makes sense then that when I intentionally swing 3/4 or less, I pound the ball, and when I take it to parallel I get completely lost. So I guess I've got some experimentation to do...

[TheDeanAbides]

13 hours ago, higgle-the-elder said:

Question for @MonteScheinblum or anyone else knowledgeable: do the NTC and broom force feels work best with a neutral or even slightly across the line position at the top? I tend to be more flat/laid off at the top and casting the club feels very difficult at times because the club is already behind me. Getting the club more neutral or what feels across the line makes it feel like I have more room to throw the club toward 8 o'clock.

 

Feel free to set me straight if I'm way off here!

If you're not in a good position at the top then it's going to be hard to make an effective downswing without getting stuck or adding compensations. 

 

That's why the NTC is a step-by-step process. Broomforce kinda presumes a decent backswing. 

[games]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

If you're not in a good position at the top then it's going to be hard to make an effective downswing without getting stuck or adding compensations. 

 

That's why the NTC is a step-by-step process. Broomforce kinda presumes a decent backswing. 

 

In my opinion, the most underrated, overlooked section of "NTC 2020" is the backswing.  Especially the wrist positions.  Just sets the stage for everything else that comes after.

  

[TheDeanAbides]

48 minutes ago, games said:

 

In my opinion, the most underrated, overlooked section of "NTC 2020" is the backswing.  Especially the wrist positions.  Just sets the stage for everything else that comes after.

  

I 100% agree. A solid and neutral backswing just makes golf so much easier. If the best players in the world tend to look the same (outliers apart) then there's a damn good reason for that. 

[higgle-the-elder]

55 minutes ago, games said:

In my opinion, the most underrated, overlooked section of "NTC 2020" is the backswing.  Especially the wrist positions.  Just sets the stage for everything else that comes after.

 

I own both Broom Force and NTC and I would say my backswing has gotten the least attention out of anything I've worked on because I've always felt it was pretty good. But now that everything is coming together, it's sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

I will revisit NTC today.

[JetPilot]

4 hours ago, games said:

 

In my opinion, the most underrated, overlooked section of "NTC 2020" is the backswing.  Especially the wrist positions.  Just sets the stage for everything else that comes after.

  

I feel like the 7 o'clock backswing position in NTC fixed 90% of my issues.  

[higgle-the-elder]

One more question that I haven't seen covered here or in the NTC videos (if it has please point me to it): what's the end game with backswing length? Is the goal to never swing past left arm parallel on the course? Or is the goal to simply master that backswing length before moving on to a longer swing?

 

The reason I ask is because it makes a lot of sense to me to make that your full swing with all irons. It seems a little short but not by much. But what about driver? Hard to imagine never going past that when I want to beat the snot out of the ball off the tee but maybe that's part of my problem...

[Hilts1969]

14 hours ago, higgle-the-elder said:

One more question that I haven't seen covered here or in the NTC videos (if it has please point me to it): what's the end game with backswing length? Is the goal to never swing past left arm parallel on the course? Or is the goal to simply master that backswing length before moving on to a longer swing?

 

The reason I ask is because it makes a lot of sense to me to make that your full swing with all irons. It seems a little short but not by much. But what about driver? Hard to imagine never going past that when I want to beat the snot out of the ball off the tee but maybe that's part of my problem...

 

Not an expert but my take is 

 

arm to 7 with left wrist flat is left arm parallel 

arm to 8 is a body turn although it feels like an arm move. 

 

The more you can turn the longer the club travels. Most use arm lift. Until you can play pretty darn well going to 8 and then 7 I wouldn’t even think about it. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Hilts1969

[berndgeurts]

1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Not an expert but my take is 

 

arm to 8 with left wrist flat is left arm parallel 

arm to 7 is a body turn although it feels like an arm move. 

 

The more you can turn the longer the club travels. Most use arm lift. Until you can play pretty darn well going to 8 and then 7 I wouldn’t even think about it. 

I think arm to 8 is past parallel, because your spine is tilted during a swing.

[TheDeanAbides]

13 hours ago, higgle-the-elder said:

One more question that I haven't seen covered here or in the NTC videos (if it has please point me to it): what's the end game with backswing length? Is the goal to never swing past left arm parallel on the course? Or is the goal to simply master that backswing length before moving on to a longer swing?

 

The reason I ask is because it makes a lot of sense to me to make that your full swing with all irons. It seems a little short but not by much. But what about driver? Hard to imagine never going past that when I want to beat the snot out of the ball off the tee but maybe that's part of my problem...

The aim is for your arm swing and pivot to be correctly synced up because you arrived in a neutral position at P3 and simply turned the shoulders a little from there without any independent arm run off. 

 

The length of your swing will be determined by your goal with the shot and your personal flexibility, but I doubt anyone will get much past parallel.