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3 minutes ago, dannygrz said:

This has been a huge game changer for me over the past week and a half. I’m striking the ball much more consistently even though there is a ton of work left to do. 
 

I do have a question for @MonteScheinblum if he could answer or anyone else that may explain this better.... 

 

When I put everything together, what should I “feel” when I start the cast? Am I trying to over exaggerate the throw to 8? 

That’s obviously individual.  When it hits the ball well and looks good, it’s probably good.

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Everyone doing this has been doing it for a week.  Ask a tour player how long it takes to fully implement a new concept.   How would you expect more than a general answer when the swing isn’

Well, you have to try a method to see if it works for you. Paying first...not a good sales approach.     I read the book and employed the swing of Brian Sparks’ free EasiestSwing.com approac

What may be a glitch or just something in the works is I'm not seeing a sponsors list on the latest version of the site, but have no doubt Monte is still with us as a sponsor and contributing!  

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On 9/2/2020 at 11:02 PM, Rictor33 said:

Here is one of my swings attempting to cast to eight (and failing). I am very inflexible and it’s difficult for me to get the club back that far. It’s even worse when I try to square the face throughout the backswing. Anything you guys see that’s glaringly bad? Besides everything?

 

edit: This was filmed in slow mo yet isn’t uploading in slow mo. Link to slow mo here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q_5URnLvxM2g-opciTsvJb0-ySNb66lV/view?usp=drivesdk

 

IMG_1537.MOV 15.39 MB · 14 downloads

I'm not an expert, so take this for what it's worth. I don't think flexibility is the issue. It looks like you have a lot of tension in your arms and shoulders. Relax your shoulders and throw the club. When I do that, the momentum of the club squares the face naturally. 

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On 9/2/2020 at 9:02 PM, Rictor33 said:

Here is one of my swings attempting to cast to eight (and failing). I am very inflexible and it’s difficult for me to get the club back that far. It’s even worse when I try to square the face throughout the backswing. Anything you guys see that’s glaringly bad? Besides everything?

 

edit: This was filmed in slow mo yet isn’t uploading in slow mo. Link to slow mo here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q_5URnLvxM2g-opciTsvJb0-ySNb66lV/view?usp=drivesdk

 

Not a flexibility issue....it’s a backswing issue.  Hands are t working to 7 and then body turn them to 8.  It’s all arm lift and not much of hinge.  You then have to thrust and slide the hips too hard to get the shaft horizontal.

 

This isn’t meant to pick on you, it’s on everyone.  People have to stop thinking and teaching that lack of flexibility is the prime cause of a swing issue.  More flexibility just allows you to manage the swing vault.

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On 8/31/2020 at 10:16 PM, PepsiDuck said:

I don't recall that this was addressed earlier in this thread, but does NTC apply for shorter 1/2 and 3/4 swings and around the green?  In other words, can you still Cast A from 7, or are your wrists and arms not in position for this to work?

Works for around the green... to 7 is all you need going back...but you must do both casts!

I had an in person lesson with Monte and I watched him hit pitch shots and for the life of me couldn't figure out what the hell he was doing to those soft pitch shots. Now, I know it was the cast to 12.  I watched him from the side and behind. All I thought was it looked like his arm/hand hit a wall (slowed up) but the club keep moving and the ball just floated to the green. 

Cast A still happens. The club should always tip backwards in transition/left wrist flattens/take the leverage from the hands (Monte's words).

 

There was an instagram post of Gary Woodland when he hit the pitch shop to win the US Open. Great example of cast A hand position in a short game shot.

 

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13 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Not a flexibility issue....it’s a backswing issue.  Hands are t working to 7 and then body turn them to 8.  It’s all arm lift and not much of hinge.  You then have to thrust and slide the hips too hard to get the shaft horizontal.

 

This isn’t meant to pick on you, it’s on everyone.  People have to stop thinking and teaching that lack of flexibility is the prime cause of a swing issue.  More flexibility just allows you to manage the swing vault.

Pick on me all you want. I’ve started standing closer to the ball and lessened my backswing. I find my swing is much flatter, but I’m getting a lot of hosel rockets/shanks. Still a major struggle right now. 

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Bought it.   Love the lesson section.

 

Question for Monte or others:

 

When you do the "cast" to 8 oclock drill and then make your swing, because we have put the club in the right position, in essence, do we not have to worry about leading with the elbow or any similar shallowing move because it will happen naturally, so to speak?

 

And, a related question.  I've spent the last 10 years of my life trying to figure out a feel or mechanism to shallow from the top.  Will this Cast A move, in itself, assuming my backswing is good, etc., which I know it is from several top instructors, all one needs to get that club behind them and shallow?

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@chigolfer1 From there, it's going to depend on the two inputs to the Cast B drill.  I think for some they are automatic, others need drills, and yet others just need a proper mindset as to what is supposed to happen.  

 

I was doing the drill in #10 or #12, and I was getting shanks like @Rictor33

Monte told me I needed to change my concept of what was going on from there.  For me (YMMV), I needed to realize at that point in the swing I needed to start engaging Cast B.  Even though the drill for Cast B starts at P6,  my brain needs to "see it" and "feel it" happen at P5.5.

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On 9/6/2020 at 8:31 AM, Rictor33 said:

Pick on me all you want. I’ve started standing closer to the ball and lessened my backswing. I find my swing is much flatter, but I’m getting a lot of hosel rockets/shanks. Still a major struggle right now. 

Did you read what he wrote? You're not doing the drill correctly - and your swing is proof. 1 - hands go to 7. 2 - BODY turns everything to 8. 3. CAST back and then through to 12. Do it slow and deliberate in a mirror. Like for a few days - even without a ball to get the feels right. Then add some speed and a ball - work some chips for a while. You'll likely see better results if you work it slow and deliberate over a week or so.  

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On 9/6/2020 at 4:31 PM, Rictor33 said:

Pick on me all you want. I’ve started standing closer to the ball and lessened my backswing. I find my swing is much flatter, but I’m getting a lot of hosel rockets/shanks. Still a major struggle right now. 

 

Not an instructor and I’m sure Monte will scold me if this is wrong but first I would do mirror work on the first part left arm parallel flat left wrist left arm at 7 o’clock. I think your right arm is much to straight and you pop it out ie flying elbow. At left arm parallel that right arm should be still in front of your torso. 

 

As an arm lifter like yourself let the right arm have a little fold at address. And keep it very relaxed, just hinge your wrists straight away and stop. Check that position. Your 4 check points are 

 

is the left arm parallel 

is the left wrist flat 

is the left arm pointing at 7

is the right elbow pointing down and in front of your torso

 

try and replicate the below image. The next step which I’m not trying yet when hitting balls will feel to you like you move your left arm horizontal to 8. No lift whatsoever it feels like a 2 step move for guys like us.This completes the shoulder turn. 

 

I dont think in your downswing you shift left with shoulders closed enough but a step  at a time. Your hands aren’t deep enough so shanks will be more likely for guys like us.

 

 

 

 

 

537882A3-A9D3-4A00-A371-38168DDC6DA5.png

F3F21FC2-448B-4829-B813-BCA96C4CE663.png

Edited by Hilts1969
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Great drill. I’d been using it off/on for several years now.

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Any thoughts on bowing the left wrist during the takeaway vs bowing it when casting to 8? I have purchased the video but have not hit a ball yet as I'm working offshore atm. I do have a club and mat to work with. This drill /swing feels really good to me and seems to keep me from driving my right shoulder out towards the ball to initiate the downswing. Standing by.

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1 hour ago, Tomok said:

Any thoughts on bowing the left wrist during the takeaway vs bowing it when casting to 8? I have purchased the video but have not hit a ball yet as I'm working offshore atm. I do have a club and mat to work with. This drill /swing feels really good to me and seems to keep me from driving my right shoulder out towards the ball to initiate the downswing. Standing by.

 

I don't think Monte is saying to just let it cup and leave all the bowing for the first cast but that's a good question generally.   I'm sure it's been brought up already but this thing has a lot of pages at this point.

 

For instance, given how unnatural my swing is, I've had several (good well known) instructors that teach me to make sure I bow as much as possible in backswing so I don't have to "think" about it in the transition.  Does that just mean, I can still bow more in transition ala Cast A, but just not as much as someone that doesn't bring it back as shut as I do?

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1 hour ago, Tomok said:

Any thoughts on bowing the left wrist during the takeaway vs bowing it when casting to 8? I have purchased the video but have not hit a ball yet as I'm working offshore atm. I do have a club and mat to work with. This drill /swing feels really good to me and seems to keep me from driving my right shoulder out towards the ball to initiate the downswing. Standing by.

 

he said left arm parallel club set at 90 with a Flat left wrist arm pointing to 7. The cast to 8 will add a little bow in the wrist as long as you ain’t dropping the right shoulder to cheat the move.

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On 9/7/2020 at 12:27 PM, chigolfer1 said:

Bought it.   Love the lesson section.

 

Question for Monte or others:

 

When you do the "cast" to 8 oclock drill and then make your swing, because we have put the club in the right position, in essence, do we not have to worry about leading with the elbow or any similar shallowing move because it will happen naturally, so to speak?

 

And, a related question.  I've spent the last 10 years of my life trying to figure out a feel or mechanism to shallow from the top.  Will this Cast A move, in itself, assuming my backswing is good, etc., which I know it is from several top instructors, all one needs to get that club behind them and shallow?

 

As someone else who bought the vids and has been using the drills, I would say yes. You want to forget any thoughts you have had about creating lag, leading with your trail elbow, or whatever. This is a different way of feeling/experiencing the correct moves so you will probably make more progress if you don't try to incorporate other drills or thoughts while you're trying the NTC feels. 

 

Mentally there's not much difference between "leading with the elbow" and "pulling down on the shaft." I have been a lifelong "pull down on the shaft" person and I realize that in order to break that "natural" habit I have to replace it with the correct movement. When I do the first throw I am definitely not pulling down on the shaft (or leading with my elbow or however you want to say it). 

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One thing I have noticed is I am taking divots a lot more now. AT least when doing the drills I am. Tore up the range yesterday and today working on transition and cast A. Even doing half swings with cast B has me getting the club into the turf. I historically don't take divots because I'm a flipper. Sure I used to hit the ball fat at times but my main miss was thin or off the toe. Now it's the opposite. One good thing I have noticed is the grass mark on my clubface is much closer to the sweet spot. I hit one heavy doing the cast A drill and the grass stain was a few grooves above the sweet spot. Granted I'm a 26 index and my swing can be all over the map.

 

Any other flippers out there notice this change when working on the drills?

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14 minutes ago, bortass said:

One thing I have noticed is I am taking divots a lot more now. AT least when doing the drills I am. Tore up the range yesterday and today working on transition and cast A. Even doing half swings with cast B has me getting the club into the turf. I historically don't take divots because I'm a flipper. Sure I used to hit the ball fat at times but my main miss was thin or off the toe. Now it's the opposite. One good thing I have noticed is the grass mark on my clubface is much closer to the sweet spot. I hit one heavy doing the cast A drill and the grass stain was a few grooves above the sweet spot. Granted I'm a 26 index and my swing can be all over the map.

 

Any other flippers out there notice this change when working on the drills?

 

Monte made a good Instagram post over the last 24 hours about how this should be expected and it's even happening to him on the way to getting it dialed in. You should expect to need changes in ball position and maybe alignment, especially if those are things you've adjusted over the years to account for a less-than-perfect swing. 

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Im a big fan of all of Monty"s stuff, played golf with the first Gen no cast drill for awhile. Then I found the Zipper away drill and thats the one that works all this stuff in like a good stew.. And thats from 2014. just do the drill 1/2 speed the body"s in the right spot the elbow drops to the pocket. the only thing you have to do is turn.... Good stuff. put the two together..

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1 hour ago, eagle98 said:

Im a big fan of all of Monty"s stuff, played golf with the first Gen no cast drill for awhile. Then I found the Zipper away drill and thats the one that works all this stuff in like a good stew.. And thats from 2014. just do the drill 1/2 speed the body"s in the right spot the elbow drops to the pocket. the only thing you have to do is turn.... Good stuff. put the two together..

I have been close to this lately.  Thank you for typing this out, as I appreciate your description!

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Game last week resulted in a net 75 off 12. Irons were a bit off but throw in high winds and small saucer greens and some balls that hit the green and bounced through the ball striking was pretty solid. Driver was very good. Could have been 5 shots better if I'd been able to putt so again the NTC was good, given only 2 range sessions and 2 games.

 

Range yesterday was very good with a very straight ball flight on most shots. Still a share of pulls when I set up with the face a bit closed (which I needed with my old swing) and a few push fades when I don't cast properly and the club doesn't release. Mostly it's a confidence thing  now to set up square to open and to make the cast in transition. 

 

One thing I tell myself is minivan not Ferrari because if I try and throw it super hard from the top it can get a bit hooky.

 

I'm loving this approach though, and incorporating it down into my short game as well. 30-40m pitches are still a work in progress to get consistent contact - often getting them a bit thin - but chipping by swinging back with my wrists and then casting (feels like what I imagine the second cast is supposed to feel like - I'm finding that pretty automatic in a full swing) and contact has been pretty solid. Reps to build confidence still required though so we will see how it pans out long term.

 

Fingers crossed

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The Zipper drill is just another variation of the transition drill. Just a different way to look at it. Good tip. @eagle98

 

For those of you guys not hitting it perfect, that's part of the process. I found myself taking chunks and like he says, you figure it out. What I have found is that my hip turn is almost there, the left wrist is a still not there, the cast A is a great feel and gets the clubhead speed up just by itself, and impact position is improved. It's a process that will take a long while. Even with some of the feels I expect to watch video and it is subtle. 

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25 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

Agreed on a lot of similar things but, my gosh.  21 minute long video for like 3 minutes of actual content.

 

 

I think there's a couple of things going on there, and yeah, a lot of wasted space. These online coaches are all trying to show their knowledge and personality and try to resonate with people so they'll subscribe to the channel. There's always going to be a lot of fluff with that as the goal. At the same time I think anyone who is teaching what I would call an "early release" sort of concept feels like they need to over-explain why they've arrived at that method. It's counter to what a whole generation of golfers was taught by well-meaning instructors. So they feel the need to justify. Maybe over-justify. 

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On 9/9/2020 at 6:13 AM, eastriver said:

I've got 8 more pages of this thread to read through, but after the first 5 posts I went ahead and bought the video.  It's really, really, really good.  Looking forward to putting in a few sessions then joining the discussion.  $20 well spent.

Totally agree.

 

This discussion has been really good to help "feels" and "thoughts" I've had as I've been practicing the Cast A and Cast B move.

 

FYI for those following this thread or still on the fence - Monte just announced on his IG page that he is going to an Instagram Live talking about the NTC and answering questions next Friday. I bet this will be awesome. A great opportunity to practice the NTC and then bring any of your questions to the IG Live chat - he usually gets through almost all of the user questions and it is great to hear questions for others. I bet this will be a great compliment to the video. I'd also recommend posting questions that haven't been answered yet in this thread (or by Monte) that are lingering ones that you think might benefit everyone.

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I'm wondering if some of you struggling with chunking the irons are making sure ball position is correct...just throwing that out there.

 

What a difference for on focusing on getting to 8:00 and casting to 8:00.  Last three rounds...10 GIR, 13 GIR, and 12 GIR (out of 13 holes as round got cut short from fog!).  Fun times.

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