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Can't seem to fix reverse pivot


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I got back into golf about 18 months ago after hardly playing at all for 10-15 years (I'm 39 now). I was struggling last year with some inconsistent contact/ball flight (fat/thin/slices) so took some lessons and did a TPI evaluation where they found reverse pivot/reverse spine angle. I've been taking lessons now for several months, plus doing the subscribed PT exercises and working with the TPI-certified PT, plus practicing several times a week typically. I also think I've watched every YouTube video covering the topic too :-)

 

But, I can't seem to get past this! I can go to a lesson, make an adjustment, but then after being on my own again, I seem to revert back to some form of my old habit. The hard part when practicing or playing is that I have no feel for whether or not I'm doing it... I basically don't know until impact/seeing the results.

 

Any suggestions on how to get past this? It's both holding me back in golf performance plus putting a strain on my low back... often in pain by the end of a round/range session.

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

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Sounds like trying to make a change to me. It usually doesn't click immediately and may be a problem you have to constantly reinforce. Mine is rolling the hands to start the backswing.   Rem

Ez fix. Take a ball and throw it. I promise u that you will not reverse pivot. Take ur throw and using the same motion build a swing.

I think people getting into trouble by trying to make the pivot as the primary driver of the swing. In the context of Mike Austin's throwing style he didn't power his swing with his pivot, his pivot s

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Sounds like trying to make a change to me. It usually doesn't click immediately and may be a problem you have to constantly reinforce. Mine is rolling the hands to start the backswing.

 

Remember when practicing something, don't do full swings. By full I mean 100%. 50% speed with a mirror and no ball. Feel where things should be and lock on that feel. After 1000 swings (not really but until comfortable) hit 50% balls concentrating on your feel and film. If you're doing it well increase your speed. At 100% you can't make adjustments

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On 8/27/2020 at 11:21 AM, footmashie said:

Man, or suppose you could be a woman, you don't want back issues.  Can you put up a swing for a look. 

 

No kidding... I enjoy playing a lot but it takes a lot of fun away when I'm in pain the rest of the day afterwards!

 

Here are a couple of recent videos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zc4eicc1MPJGhb4o6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aXZ83TetQ3HvNUws9

 

Thanks!

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Here is how the knees works.   Left out toward toes.   Right straightens a little bit as right hip work up and back toward the target.  Hip turn on angle - left down and right hip up and around on backswing then reversed through transition/ downswing.

Start there and you’ll still have plenty of other things to work on but get the knees right and you can get the hip turn correct - one step at a time.

 

like this guy

 

Enjoy every sandwich

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Hit balls with your feet together. Do 10 then try a normal swing. Then 5 with feet together, followed by one normal swing. You should start to feel how the feet together and normal swings relate to one another. 

 

I like to take my on-course practice swing with my feet together as a reminder on sequencing and remembering to release. 

 

It seems like tension in the lower body can often lead to a reverse pivot. If your feet, knees or hips feel really locked in, try relaxing that feeling. The feet together drill is pretty much a failure if your lower body doesn't turn naturally, so you'll see it right away. 

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I think people getting into trouble by trying to make the pivot as the primary driver of the swing. In the context of Mike Austin's throwing style he didn't power his swing with his pivot, his pivot supported the throw. He didn't  shift his weight, he let his weight shift. He didn't  turn, he allowed the turn. His pivot reacted to the throw, fast throw = fast pivot. 

 

Austin Iron Front.gif

Edited by Zitlow
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I have this issue too - and it creeps into my swing out on the course when I have uneven lies to deal with. Very frustrating. I anticipate it - stand on the lie - make some swings where I move my weight properly - step into the ball - and then.... hang back as I try to hit it.... Grrrrrrrrrrr... There is literally no where to practice uneven lies. Drive me crazy. 

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2 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

I think people getting into trouble by trying to make the pivot as the primary driver of the swing. In the context of Mike Austin's throwing style he didn't power his swing with his pivot, his pivot supported the throw. He didn't  shift his weight weight, he let his weight shift. He didn't  turn, he allowed the turn. 

 

 

Austin Iron Front.gif

 

exactly this. Its not about doing something "right" and getting a good swing, its about having a good swing then the things that are "right" happen.

 

You shouldnt have a list like this:

 

1) dont reverse pivot

2) load right side

3) reverse k

4) shift weight forward

5) dont early extend

6) dont come ott

7) ect.

 

all of those issues are non issues when you just throw the club like you throw something.

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i like this drill to really feel how your left hip stays in the same spot essentially.  And your right hip creates that bit of space as it goes back and behind.  I think you'll be shocked how this feels the first time you do it and it will be next to impossible to reverse pivot.

 

 

 

 

Edited by chigolfer1
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1 hour ago, N0rs3man said:

 

exactly this. Its not about doing something "right" and getting a good swing, its about having a good swing then the things that are "right" happen.

 

You shouldnt have a list like this:

 

1) dont reverse pivot

2) load right side

3) reverse k

4) shift weight forward

5) dont early extend

6) dont come ott

7) ect.

 

all of those issues are non issues when you just throw the club like you throw something.

True, swing thoughts not only slow the swing down they also kill the synergy. Take the slack out at the top and go, inertia and momentum take care of the rest. 

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On 9/1/2020 at 8:11 AM, me05501 said:

Hit balls with your feet together. Do 10 then try a normal swing. Then 5 with feet together, followed by one normal swing. You should start to feel how the feet together and normal swings relate to one another. 

 

I like to take my on-course practice swing with my feet together as a reminder on sequencing and remembering to release. 

 

It seems like tension in the lower body can often lead to a reverse pivot. If your feet, knees or hips feel really locked in, try relaxing that feeling. The feet together drill is pretty much a failure if your lower body doesn't turn naturally, so you'll see it right away. 

 

I actually have been doing some of this lately and it seems crazy, but I seem to make more consistent contact with my feet together than apart.

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You don't reverse pivot when you walk. The back swing and downswing pivot actions are like a walking sideways action. From address step onto your right foot, leg and hip as you extend your knee similar to the way you do when you walk. It's a shift onto your right hip joint, as your shoulders turn your hips turn. There is some left side bend of the QL involved and the left knee works in a diagonal out towards the ball. From there your shoulders turn your hips to complete the back swing.

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Let's try this one more time.    Your issue is your hip turn - you collapse your left hip by moving your left knee way inwards.     Fix you knee/hip movement as I talked about in my earlier post (posts aren't numbered yet but it is the 7th post with the instagram of Julia Suri),

 

You vs Suri

1200029677_ScreenShot2020-09-03at7_46_29AM.png.83d485b5c4b9682e9fc951caeba52b1c.png1345508252_ScreenShot2020-09-03at7_47_34AM.png.e6e6e0faa62a66346fb7ee7641ed3ea3.png

 

 

Enjoy every sandwich

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45 minutes ago, glk said:

Let's try this one more time.    Your issue is your hip turn - you collapse your left hip by moving your left knee way inwards.     Fix you knee/hip movement as I talked about in my earlier post (posts aren't numbered yet but it is the 7th post with the instagram of Julia Suri),

 

You vs Suri

1200029677_ScreenShot2020-09-03at7_46_29AM.png.83d485b5c4b9682e9fc951caeba52b1c.png1345508252_ScreenShot2020-09-03at7_47_34AM.png.e6e6e0faa62a66346fb7ee7641ed3ea3.png

 

 

 

How would you suggest I begin working on this? My knee has moved in like that (I think) ever since I got back into golf, so not sure the best way to begin working on that, without upsetting other stuff I'm working on with my instructor.

 

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2 minutes ago, Pamlico said:

 

How would you suggest I begin working on this? My knee has moved in like that (I think) ever since I got back into golf, so not sure the best way to begin working on that, without upsetting other stuff I'm working on with my instructor.

 

Your instructor is allowing you to do that?   I would start to fix it by finding a new instructor.     

That aside, I described  the motion in my previous post - the left knee works out toward the toes and rotation will bring it inwards just a bit - on the backswing the left hip works down while the right hip works up and around - then after a lateral shift in transtion, the left hip will work up and around while the right hip works down (and ultimately around).     

 

 

Try this

And here is measured info on how much separation actually happens in good swings.

 

Enjoy every sandwich

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1 minute ago, glk said:

Your instructor is allowing you to do that?   I would start to fix it by finding a new instructor.     

That aside, I described  the motion in my previous post - the left knee works out toward the toes and rotation will bring it inwards just a bit - on the backswing the left hip works down while the right hip works up and around - then after a lateral shift in transtion, the left hip will work up and around while the right hip works down (and ultimately around).     

 

 

Try this

And here is measured info on how much separation actually happens in good swings.

 

 

Yes, both my golf instructor and TPI-certified physical therapist said not to worry about the knees at this point... not doubting you at all so please don't misunderstand my wording/tone (hard to convey via text only ?

 

My instructor has suggested using a beach ball between the knees to work on the knee separation in conjunction with working on rotation.

 

But, my dad (who I often play with) has been talking about the knees a lot.

 

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An aid to help this is to get a band (theraband, or just exercise tubing) and wrap it just above the knees - goal is to keep the band taunt and even attempt to increase it's stretch in the downswing.    A beach ball if it is large enough can help too but I like using an exercise tube cause it makes you work to do the motion correctly whereas a beach ball stops you from doing it - i believe aids that you have to work against to do something correctly are better than those that just stop you from doing a poor motion.   good hip/knee action is the driver of the pivot - lots of bad things happen when they move poorly.      Affects how your upper body pivots, pressure shift or lack thereof, and on and on.   

 

Edited by glk

Enjoy every sandwich

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2 minutes ago, glk said:

An aid to help this is to get a band (theraband, or just exercise tubing) and wrap it just above the knees - goal is to keep the band taunt and even attempt to increase it's stretch in the downswing.    A beach ball if it is large enough can help too.   - good hip/knee action is the driver of the pivot - lots of bad things happen when they move poorly.      Affects how your upper body pivots, pressure shift or lack thereof, and on and on.   

 

 

That's actually a drill my instructor has given me (band on the legs), which reminds me that I haven't done it in a few days and need to get back to it today!

 

Thanks for the input!

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6 hours ago, footmashie said:

 

Not going deep into the weeds as I see you work with an instructor, but the comments about legs are mostly correct.  Look at your address position, your weight heavily favors the left foot, so much so that if anyone asked you to, once at address,  lift your left foot off the ground without first having to shift weight to the right foot in order to do so, you would not be able to do it.  At some level you, or your inner you, understands this because you try to offset that disparity by adding more upper spine tilt away from the target, but it is fools gold, it accomplishes nothing, it merely hides the fault.     More than several ways to address issue, some here in the thread.    You might try elevating the lead foot by hitting off a mat wherein the trail foot is on the cement, the lead foot and ball on mat, so lead foot is about an inch higher.  Or try to find a 1 inch stand for the lead foot.  This is as good as place as any to start.  Didn't watch any more than that.    Not fond of leg bands, beach balls, range buckets, or large dogs.

 

Thanks, good suggestions there.

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