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Frustrated After Filming Swing - Flip/EE


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Hi Guys - Long time reader of the forum and finally decided to create an account after filming some swings. After viewing the videos, it looks like I'm coming out of position at impact and am hardly opening the hips at impact as well. Also, it looks like to me that I'm flipping at the ball.

 

This is frustrating as I have had quite a bit of instruction over the past 2 years. I'm currently off a ~4 index but would like to keep progressing. My thoughts are that I need it figure out this flipping nonsense before I can take further steps on my journey to scratch.

 

Anyways, below are a couple down the line videos. Appreciate any feedback or comments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Habitual Flipper
Fixing youtube links
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It's not exactly terrible. But... you stall BECAUSE you rotate so early. I know, weird, right? The early rotation gets your hips outracing your club, and because you're a very good player, you instinctively stall to let the arms catch up. Hence the flip. Do you hit thin shots, too?

 

Let your right knee straighten a little on the backswing. It'll lengthen your swing, give you more hip turn, and get the pressure more into your right heel. Then, instead of trying to rotate so early in transition, "fall" into your left foot a bit (feel like it's an inch or two). Feel like you pressure the left foot with the arms coming down as the first move. Go down an inch (or feel like it), then rotate.  You can also feel like your left shoulder stays down longer in transition. It has the same effect.

 

Watch Rory's first move down. It's literally him pressuring DOWN then turning.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Scottbox
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There are a lot of good players with an early quick hip motion that all but stop at impact. Tiger used to have his hips firing even before he finished his backswing. I think you looked a little jammed which may be you need to get more weight on your right side.

 

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3 hours ago, Scottbox said:

It's not exactly terrible. But... you stall BECAUSE you rotate so early. I know, weird, right? The early rotation gets your hips outracing your club, and because you're a very good player, you instinctively stall to let the arms catch up. Hence the flip. Do you hit thin shots, too?

 

Let your right knee straighten a little on the backswing. It'll lengthen your swing, give you more hip turn, and get the pressure more into your right heel. Then, instead of trying to rotate so early in transition, "fall" into your left foot a bit (feel like it's an inch or two). Feel like you pressure the left foot with the arms coming down as the first move. Go down an inch (or feel like it), then rotate.  You can also feel like your left shoulder stays down longer in transition. It has the same effect.

 

Watch Rory's first move down. It's literally him pressuring DOWN then turning.

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your response, thanks!

 

Yes, my miss is often thin contact that results in a bullet fade. Toe strikes can sneak in there as well.  I'll definitely try this at the range.  The first swing coach I worked with really hammered on me to fire my hips. Maybe I went to far with this as you pointed out above. 

 

Just finished a practice nine after a terrible round yesterday and was really focusing on a full shoulder turn. No video, but contact felt great today and my GIRs were up (freshly aerated greens wreaked havoc on my putting however). 

 

That Rory swing is something to behold. Could watch it on repeat all day.

 

Ps. how did you embed the youtube video like you did? I wasn't able to get it to work. 

2 hours ago, chipa said:

There are a lot of good players with an early quick hip motion that all but stop at impact. Tiger used to have his hips firing even before he finished his backswing. I think you looked a little jammed which may be you need to get more weight on your right side.

 

More weight to the right side on the backswing I assume? 

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Yeah, this turn your hips as fast as possible is kind of damaging to golfers.

 

BTW, Tiger had to overcome fast hips, which is normal for long hitters who started the game very early and had to use the hips for speed (because as a kid, you don't really have a strong upper body yet). If you look at his later swings, he held his right butt cheek back a millisecond to allow his arms to catch up. This video by my teach, Monte Scheinblum, is very illustrative of what would help you:

 

 

Another excellent example is Justin Rose, who had to overcome overly fast hips.

 

The above two videos are really great for you to consider, in terms of delaying your hip turn for a millisecond, so you give yourself some time and real estate for your arms to come down. You'll find you actually rotate better, because you're doing it at the proper time. 

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Just tried some living room swings with these ideas and right off the bat, I can feel my arms/hands slot in a lot better (who knows what the camera will say). I really like that cue of keeping the right butt cheek riding the wall for a split second. It all makes a lot a sense, excited to get back to range for some slow rehearsals. 

 

One question with respect to the first video. I've seen Monte's video about "zipper away". Maybe I misunderstood that one, but I thought he was saying to move your zipper in the direction of the red arrow. Is that still the case, but just a fraction later in the sequence? 

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He seems to have revised his thinking a bit so I’d go with the latest.

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After watching both videos, I think idea is actually consistent. I think the confusion happens with drawing 2D arrows. I could be wrong but I'm thinking the red arrow in the insta post is actually towards target, not towards "10 o'clock" when looking top down, as visualized in the zipper away video.

 

Any way to summon Monte to this thread? haha

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14 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

More weight to the right side on the backswing I assume? 

 

Yes, look at Jimmy Ballard videos. Also, I wouldn't worry about the hips because trying to stall them will probably rob you of significant distance. Most big hitters fire their hips soon in the backswing. The issue with the hips is more relevant for people with over the top moves that rarely get the club in a good position at the top.

 

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To my amateur eye your hips turn a lot early in the swing and given how little time they have to work around and open in the downswing I think you want to start left sooner.  Not with faster hips, but with earlier starting pressure and naturally resulting opening hips.

 

For giggles try the feeling of swinging down hill.  About halfway into your backswing, with your hands about belt height, try to get the feeling of recentering  your weight left toward the target very early.  To accomplish it you need to get your pressure into right foot/heel what will feel super early, like when your club head is going by your right foot. It'll feel like you're weight is falling left before you even get to the top.  Not weight really going to the left toward target, but it'll feel like because your left knee is at max flex and left hip is lower than right at that point your weight sinks into that left side like your swinging down a hill.  That should get your hips opening sooner and make maintaining posture easier and more natural.  Then you just post up pushing against the ground with left foot and you're in a position to pound it. 

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On 9/3/2020 at 12:04 PM, ChrisNH said:

To my amateur eye your hips turn a lot early in the swing and given how little time they have to work around and open in the downswing I think you want to start left sooner.  Not with faster hips, but with earlier starting pressure and naturally resulting opening hips.

 

For giggles try the feeling of swinging down hill.  About halfway into your backswing, with your hands about belt height, try to get the feeling of recentering  your weight left toward the target very early.  To accomplish it you need to get your pressure into right foot/heel what will feel super early, like when your club head is going by your right foot. It'll feel like you're weight is falling left before you even get to the top.  Not weight really going to the left toward target, but it'll feel like because your left knee is at max flex and left hip is lower than right at that point your weight sinks into that left side like your swinging down a hill.  That should get your hips opening sooner and make maintaining posture easier and more natural.  Then you just post up pushing against the ground with left foot and you're in a position to pound it. 

 

This is a good very concept.

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  • 1 year later...
5 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

Well it's been just over a year. I feel like I've made some good progress, and a lot of it coming recently since implementing cast A from Monte's video.

 

 

 

Ok, now you seriously need a lesson on the club twirl after flushing one. That was bad.

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30 minutes ago, BraxtonFullerton said:

 

Ok, now you seriously need a lesson on the club twirl after flushing one. That was bad.


NSFW

 

 

Edited by BrianMcG
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20 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

This brings up a discussion point, how many people actually club twirl at the range? 😆


Where else you going to practice it?

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3 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

This brings up a discussion point, how many people actually club twirl at the range? 😆


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On 9/14/2021 at 9:55 AM, Habitual Flipper said:

Well it's been just over a year. I feel like I've made some good progress, and a lot of it coming recently since implementing cast A from Monte's video.

 

 

 

You've got a great motion on the ball from the top, it looks really excellent.

 

With a caveat that I'm not a golf teacher simply somebody who focuses on the 4 or 5 fundamentals, I would really look into making some changes to your address and setup. Your back is curved pretty seriously and you're in a relatively unathletic position standing over the ball super closely.

 

Even Arnold at 75 years old looks more ready to make an athletic move at the ball

 

image.png.15f00c55cb6b7ce6a5460f381b0efab4.png

 

 

Compare that to one of the younger bucks (Rory) and you can really see a massive difference between how he stands over the ball and how you do. You're creating a lot of issues for yourself with that setup in freedom of motion specifically

 

image.png.22a8b06325334fb0ee15d26f675c27b7.pngimage.png.1d117fa0f2ed65f925e7dd03d3764618.png

 

 

With that said, your sequencing from the backswing to the forward swing is really impeccable. I love watching it, the kinematics of it are absolutely top tier. I think getting in a more athletic position from the get-go would really bring you to the next level of consistency and power

 

Edited by rooski
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10 hours ago, rooski said:

 

You've got a great motion on the ball from the top, it looks really excellent.

 

With a caveat that I'm not a golf teacher simply somebody who focuses on the 4 or 5 fundamentals, I would really look into making some changes to your address and setup. Your back is curved pretty seriously and you're in a relatively unathletic position standing over the ball super closely.

 

Even Arnold at 75 years old looks more ready to make an athletic move at the ball

 

 

 

 

Compare that to one of the younger bucks (Rory) and you can really see a massive difference between how he stands over the ball and how you do. You're creating a lot of issues for yourself with that setup in freedom of motion specifically

 

 

 

 

With that said, your sequencing from the backswing to the forward swing is really impeccable. I love watching it, the kinematics of it are absolutely top tier. I think getting in a more athletic position from the get-go would really bring you to the next level of consistency and power

 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback Rooski! 

 

I definitely agree, my last swing coach did as well. He was always getting me to straighten out the back but I find I always slink back to this position once I'm between lessons for a while. I blame office work for it. 

 

I also think I crowd the ball as my miss is toey. I feel like I'm slotting the club well now versus my previous videos which I think has remedied the toe hits. I'll try not to crowd it so much and see how that goes.

 

Cheers

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5 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

I also think I crowd the ball as my miss is toey. I feel like I'm slotting the club well now versus my previous videos which I think has remedied the toe hits. I'll try not to crowd it so much and see how that goes.

 

Feel blessed that your swing makes that your miss. I struggle with a natural tendency to get hunched and crowd the ball a little as well that I have to keep an eye on.

 

However when I start to do it, I get a nice, full, powerful, and gut wrenching case of the sh*nks

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