Searching for Driver: low spin, low launch

NRJyzr · September 4, 2020

28 minutes ago, Myherobobhope said:

I've played with a ton of different shafts in my driver, and shaft weight is the first thing I look for now. I can't hit a 50g, 60g is OK and 70g and up is my sweet spot... it makes a ton of difference for me. More than anything I can better "feel" the clubhead as I'm driving through... some people say to swing the lightest shaft you can control, but I think at higher speeds chasing control makes more sense, so I suggest going heavier.

I'm at a similar swing speed, and have a Cobra Pro LTD. I've posted at length on it, but it's a very good club. Unfortunately, the used market sucks right now. I just did a quick eBay search and it came up blank... It's actually fairly shocking. The F8 might be a fine replacement, but I never hit it, so I can't speak to it's goodness.

For the used club options, here's what I'd recommend keeping an eye out for:

Ping 400 LST - Phenomenal option. It's not going to be cheap. Probably ever. Can always resell it, though.

Cobra Pro LTD - Great club, easy to get new shafts for... this is my gamer

Mizuno S190GT - Great club, but prices have held shockingly well on it...

A quick google search shows the Taylor Made M3 was pretty low launch. Pickings are still slim on eBay... it's nuts out there... Where is all the used golf equipment?

On shafts, it's a wild world out there... You can spend a ton of money chasing a great shaft, this is definitely a spot where working with a fitter and having access to try a number of things is a huge help. I'm an Aldila fan boy, and ended up getting a Rogue Silver 110 off ebay fairly cheap... It's a great shaft. I tend to get along with Aldila shafts, though... There are plenty of high $ low spin shafts out there... the HZRDOUS Hulk, the Ventus Black, the Ventus Blue... if you have the cash to drop, it's a picnic!

There are some classic low spin shafts that definitely still perform, though... Diamana + White is a great example. It will take some research and experimenting to find what works for you.

I've spent some time and money buying various heads just for the shafts installed in them... sometimes it's cheaper than buying just the shaft. The used market is really weird right now, though.

You want to know how weird the golf club market is? 2 of the top High Swing Speed drivers on Mai Golf Thai's top 5 list are the PXG 0811 and the Lynx Black Cat... The Lynx driver is $400. The PXG is $279... I give up. (Other top three are the TS2, the SIM and Srixon Z785... though I believe the PING 410LST is the top dog.)

OK, so after screwing around on eBay and looking at shaft options and everything else, I'm going to recommend you do 2 things...

One: Find a good PING fitter, go hit the LST. It's a great club, holds it's value and the 425 will only be marginally better.

Two: See if you can find a PXG fitter and try the 0811 XF... or take a flyer on it... I've got more than $300 into my used Cobra head, and I'm sure the PXG will resale for more.

Honestly, if I weren't furloughed, I'd probably drop the $300 on the 0811 XF with a Diamana S+ 70g and call it a day... For $279 that's a lot of stick.

Even at 2nd Swing, prices are up and inventory is down. Friend of mine happened to get paired with the manager of one of the 2nd Swing locations here, he said product is moving so fast, they are taking their incoming items, reboxing and right back out the door. Crazy stuff.

Even older drivers like the R11s and R9 are up in price. A few months ago, V Steels were pretty cheap, but they're up now, too.

Myherobobhope · September 4, 2020

For $300 a new pxg with your choice of shaft is pretty awesome.

RoyalMustang · September 4, 2020

4 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

My suggestion is to not be afraid to go heavier with your driver shaft, and maybe go shorter. It's possible you could need a 70 or even 80g or more shaft. Bias alert: I am rather biased against shafts under 70g. And, I also prefer drivers at 44" or shorter. ?

If you want a cheap experiment, you could track down an older stick, slap some lead tape on it, and use a 3 wood shaft. While they may have their problems, this is one aspect of TM drivers that is quite lovely; you can pick from anything going all the way back to the R1 and RBZ Stage 2 and use the same shaft you might look to use in a SIM.

The Ping LST sticks are also quite excellent (one of the guys in my group grabbed one with dramatic improvement).

A last thought.... it's possible your spin numbers are high because your contact is consistently in the bottom half of the clubface. As Brother Howard Jones has posted many times, a low-on-clubface strike will juice your spin numbers like few things can.

I hear you! It seems the drivers today are too long. I don't need a long-drive contest model. I need a 280 in the fairway consistently model. I hadn't thought about that, but it could be a factor. I need to choke down! Given how many times I have seen Trouty crush a ball 400 feet with his compact swing and choked down 2 strike approach, I should know that swinging hard with a long club isn't necessary to get results. It is all about core action and timing.

RoyalMustang · September 4, 2020

2 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

I've played with a ton of different shafts in my driver, and shaft weight is the first thing I look for now. I can't hit a 50g, 60g is OK and 70g and up is my sweet spot... it makes a ton of difference for me. More than anything I can better "feel" the clubhead as I'm driving through... some people say to swing the lightest shaft you can control, but I think at higher speeds chasing control makes more sense, so I suggest going heavier.

I'm at a similar swing speed, and have a Cobra Pro LTD. I've posted at length on it, but it's a very good club. Unfortunately, the used market sucks right now. I just did a quick eBay search and it came up blank... It's actually fairly shocking. The F8 might be a fine replacement, but I never hit it, so I can't speak to it's goodness.

For the used club options, here's what I'd recommend keeping an eye out for:

Ping 400 LST - Phenomenal option. It's not going to be cheap. Probably ever. Can always resell it, though.

Cobra Pro LTD - Great club, easy to get new shafts for... this is my gamer

Mizuno S190GT - Great club, but prices have held shockingly well on it...

A quick google search shows the Taylor Made M3 was pretty low launch. Pickings are still slim on eBay... it's nuts out there... Where is all the used golf equipment?

On shafts, it's a wild world out there... You can spend a ton of money chasing a great shaft, this is definitely a spot where working with a fitter and having access to try a number of things is a huge help. I'm an Aldila fan boy, and ended up getting a Rogue Silver 110 off ebay fairly cheap... It's a great shaft. I tend to get along with Aldila shafts, though... There are plenty of high $ low spin shafts out there... the HZRDOUS Hulk, the Ventus Black, the Ventus Blue... if you have the cash to drop, it's a picnic!

There are some classic low spin shafts that definitely still perform, though... Diamana + White is a great example. It will take some research and experimenting to find what works for you.

I've spent some time and money buying various heads just for the shafts installed in them... sometimes it's cheaper than buying just the shaft. The used market is really weird right now, though.

You want to know how weird the golf club market is? 2 of the top High Swing Speed drivers on Mai Golf Thai's top 5 list are the PXG 0811 and the Lynx Black Cat... The Lynx driver is $400. The PXG is $279... I give up. (Other top three are the TS2, the SIM and Srixon Z785... though I believe the PING 410LST is the top dog.)

OK, so after screwing around on eBay and looking at shaft options and everything else, I'm going to recommend you do 2 things...

One: Find a good PING fitter, go hit the LST. It's a great club, holds it's value and the 425 will only be marginally better.

Two: See if you can find a PXG fitter and try the 0811 XF... or take a flyer on it... I've got more than $300 into my used Cobra head, and I'm sure the PXG will resale for more.

Honestly, if I weren't furloughed, I'd probably drop the $300 on the 0811 XF with a Diamana S+ 70g and call it a day... For $279 that's a lot of stick.

Ah, cool. One other option: with my discount, Global Golf has a new Titleist TS4 w/Evenflow X T1100 shaft (or other shaft of choice) for $290. I like the Ping and PXG ideal as well. I can get a ST190 head for $75 as well...

Exactice808 · September 4, 2020

45 minutes ago, Dawgdude said:

Ah, cool. One other option: with my discount, Global Golf has a new Titleist TS4 w/Evenflow X T1100 shaft (or other shaft of choice) for $290. I like the Ping and PXG ideal as well. I can get a ST190 head for $75 as well...

Just looked up the specs on the Evenflow T1100 ,

Flex 6.0

Torque 3.0 (good)

Weight (67grams)

Flex 6.5

Torque 3.0 (good)

Weight (68grams)

Personally I feel you should WAIT on buying a whole new club till you figure out the actual shaft setup.

I suggest if you had the chance to go to the store that you posted the Launch data from. Go in there and look through the used racks to find shafts in the stiff or X stiff, with shaft weights 70g or higher. And re hit.

I does NOT matter what head you have on and honestly it doesnt matter what your spin or launch angle is at this point.

You are trying to find a shaft that allows you to obtain a 1.5 smash or NEAR 1.5 smash average NO less than 1.45. When you get the shaft sorted out, this will allow you to be efficient in your head delivery to the ball.

Dont just start buying clubs as Honestly the X T1100 might still be too light for you.

Check the used racks and even the demo clubs they got a bunch of shafts, test them as much as you can regardless what head is on the end, GET the overall feel settled first. Once the feel is setup and the SMASH is set, you can then find a shaft and head to then tune your launch window.

I mean seriously its easier to tune a head and shaft profile to lower launch and spin, Than it is to find a balanced shaft that gives the most efficient smash factor.

RoyalMustang · September 4, 2020

43 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Just looked up the specs on the Evenflow T1100 ,

Flex 6.0

Torque 3.0 (good)

Weight (67grams)

Flex 6.5

Torque 3.0 (good)

Weight (68grams)

Personally I feel you should WAIT on buying a whole new club till you figure out the actual shaft setup.

I suggest if you had the chance to go to the store that you posted the Launch data from. Go in there and look through the used racks to find shafts in the stiff or X stiff, with shaft weights 70g or higher. And re hit.

I does NOT matter what head you have on and honestly it doesnt matter what your spin or launch angle is at this point.

You are trying to find a shaft that allows you to obtain a 1.5 smash or NEAR 1.5 smash average NO less than 1.45. When you get the shaft sorted out, this will allow you to be efficient in your head delivery to the ball.

Dont just start buying clubs as Honestly the X T1100 might still be too light for you.

Check the used racks and even the demo clubs they got a bunch of shafts, test them as much as you can regardless what head is on the end, GET the overall feel settled first. Once the feel is setup and the SMASH is set, you can then find a shaft and head to then tune your launch window.

I mean seriously its easier to tune a head and shaft profile to lower launch and spin, Than it is to find a balanced shaft that gives the most efficient smash factor.

That is a great idea! They have a $50/1.5 hour shaft tryout deal there-I should book a session.

Myherobobhope · September 4, 2020

Do you own the st200g? If so, you just need a new shaft...

it’s an amazing low spin head.

Try some heavy options and see what happens.

RoyalMustang · September 9, 2020

On 9/4/2020 at 2:02 PM, Myherobobhope said:

Do you own the st200g? If so, you just need a new shaft...

it’s an amazing low spin head.

Try some heavy options and see what happens.

I wish I had it: I may try and pick one up here used!

Update: over the weekend (outside) I hit a few more clubs (took 2 out on the course), courtesy of a friend who works at a fitting shack.

Titleist D4 w/Smoke 60 yellow 6.0 (I think this is stiff although often said to be X), loft 9.5

M5 Tour w/Proforce V2 7F5 X, loft 9

Titleist 917 D3 8.5 degree w/Diamanta LTD 70 X shaft, loft 8.5

None of these were particularly long; I have hit others further, certainly. I took the M5 and 917 out on the course. The M5 was good and a touch higher; the 917 was shooting bullets. Fairly low trajectory (maybe a touch too low). The M5 was dead straight and 313 on the first hole; then couple of draws to the right and trouble (no yardage on those). My 3 drives on the 917 were a very big drive downhill that caught the trap (no yardage but long), 305 at slightly lower than optimal flight and straight (plenty of rolling which left a 5-iron leading to a 14-foot eagle opportunity) and straight, and a thin miss that was quite a bit lower than desired, rolled to 270, also dead straight.

What does this (admittedly small) sample size tell me? Good shaft, more loft needed? Stay with low loft and get a slightly softer shaft? Honestly, if driving distance is all about measuring the length of ones d***, then I want a bigger driver, but if my "misses" are dead straight and 270, I will take that all day long.

I also am beginning to get more consistent. I shot an 87 with 6 pars and a birdie. Still some bad, bad misses and three 4 putts, but after 2 decades off, I count it as a step in the right direction.

I have a fitting next week but want to be as prepared as possible.

EDIT: just realized the TS4 was on the d2 setting (-.75 degrees, heavy draw). No wonder I was fighting a draw and hitting it low. I have a natural slight draw anyways. I readjusted it to D4 (+.75, neutral) to see if it changes anything.

Edited September 9, 2020 by RoyalMustang

RoyalMustang · September 9, 2020

On 9/4/2020 at 2:02 PM, Myherobobhope said:

Do you own the st200g? If so, you just need a new shaft...

it’s an amazing low spin head.

Try some heavy options and see what happens.

No, but I am looking at picking one up used here!

Myherobobhope · September 9, 2020

15 hours ago, Dawgdude said:

I wish I had it: I may try and pick one up here used!

Update: over the weekend (outside) I hit a few more clubs (took 2 out on the course), courtesy of a friend who works at a fitting shack.

Titleist D4 w/Smoke 60 yellow 6.0 (I think this is stiff although often said to be X), loft 9.5

M5 Tour w/Proforce V2 7F5 X, loft 9

Titleist 917 D3 8.5 degree w/Diamanta LTD 70 X shaft, loft 8.5

None of these were particularly long; I have hit others further, certainly.  I took the M5 and 917 out on the course. The M5 was good and a touch higher;  the 917 was shooting bullets. Fairly low trajectory (maybe a touch too low). The M5 was dead straight and 313 on the first hole; then couple of draws to the right and trouble (no yardage on those). My 3 drives on the 917 were a very big drive downhill that caught the trap (no yardage but long), 305 at slightly lower than optimal flight and straight (plenty of rolling which left a 5-iron leading to a 14-foot eagle opportunity) and straight, and a thin miss that was quite a bit lower than desired, rolled to 270, also dead straight.

What does this (admittedly small) sample size tell me? Good shaft, more loft needed? Stay with low loft and get a slightly softer shaft? Honestly, if driving distance is all about measuring the length of ones d***, then I want a bigger driver, but if my "misses" are dead straight and 270, I will take that all day long.

I also am beginning to get more consistent. I shot an 87 with 6 pars and a birdie. Still some bad, bad misses and three 4 putts, but after 2 decades off, I count it as a step in the right direction.

I have a fitting next week but want to be as prepared as possible.

EDIT: just realized the TS4 was on the d2 setting (-.75 degrees, heavy draw). No wonder I was fighting a draw and hitting it low. I have a natural slight draw anyways. I readjusted it to D4 (+.75, neutral) to see if it changes anything.

TS4 or 3 in a Diamana+ 70 gram shaft is going to be your winner... and it just got discounted down to $350...

Used market is super tough right now, low inventory and high prices.

When you go to your fitting, I highly recommend the Ventus Blue (and Black) and the Aldila Silver. They are all worth trying if available... It does look like you do better with heavier shafts (not surprising), but you might be able to eek out some more yardage out of a 60 gram shaft... If possible, try the same shaft in different weights, just to see how different 10 grams can feel.

The Diamana is an awesome shaft, though, and I'm pretty sure it's no upcharge with Titliest. The TS3 is more forgiving, so it's worth giving a shot. Especially as you can try the same shafts in it side by side and get a good feel for what is making your numbers change.

RoyalMustang · September 9, 2020

40 minutes ago, Myherobobhope said:

TS4 or 3 in a Diamana+ 70 gram shaft is going to be your winner... and it just got discounted down to $350...

Used market is super tough right now, low inventory and high prices.

When you go to your fitting, I highly recommend the Ventus Blue (and Black) and the Aldila Silver. They are all worth trying if available... It does look like you do better with heavier shafts (not surprising), but you might be able to eek out some more yardage out of a 60 gram shaft... If possible, try the same shaft in different weights, just to see how different 10 grams can feel.

The Diamana is an awesome shaft, though, and I'm pretty sure it's no upcharge with Titliest. The TS3 is more forgiving, so it's worth giving a shot. Especially as you can try the same shafts in it side by side and get a good feel for what is making your numbers change.

I just hit the TS4 9.5 with both the Smoke Yellow 6.0 60g and Diamanta+ 70g. I liked both; perhaps the Diamanta was a touch better. I set the loft to +.75 and really liked the ball flight. I didn't have accurate distance info but the local next to me said "nice drive: you carried 290 and that driver will roll forever". Good trajectory! I want to get one on a monitor as well.

Edited September 9, 2020 by RoyalMustang