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My Swing Evolution is a Charlatan!


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5 hours ago, tgreenwood11 said:

I have to hand it to him, though; he's made a good living off of complete suckers.   --> yep, I feel bad that golfers had to pay their hard earned money to this charlatan.

 

Hogan was Hogan and while the great man helped a few golfers like John Schlee, John Mahaffey who both adopted shallower swings, there are no pro golfers who ever got to the Hall of Fame under Ben Hogan's tutelege.  --> Jackie Burke should be an exception. He knows a hell lot regarding Hogan. I admire Mr. Burke as a golfer an as a person just like Hogan.

 

Is there anything to copy Ben Hogan for?  Yes, work ethic and sheer determination.   Hogan's swing was for Hogan, just like Jack Nicklaus' swing was for Jack.  --> His mechanic is flawless. If you know what he does. Still nobody does.

 

Most of the people who buy these "systems" are week-end golfers who spend zero time on the range Monday - Friday.   Want to improve?  See your local pro and practice. --> Couldn't help but agree with you on this point. Versus paying MSE going to even a local pro is more beneficial. MSE is garbage.

Many good points sir. Cheers!

 

4 hours ago, golfsticks said:

 

It's true Hogan did not relish helping playing competitors but Jackie Burke Jr. is in the Hall of Fame and shared many ideas with, and from,  Ben on the lesson tee as part of the Hogan-Burke-Demaret-Nelson friendship in the Texas corral.      If one wants to know Ben Hogan they need look no further than Mr. Burke, he knows, he's not guessing.        Back in those days tour players stayed in the same hotel and after hours sat around the lobby slamming whiskey and talking golf- tons of learning going on in that closed community.   

 

What a great guy Mr. Burke is. Can't get enough of his wisdom and knowledge.

 

 

 

 

Edited by SwagGolf6112
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Haven't read this whole thread--kinda skimmed it but I think I got the theme. I've studied Hogan's swing quite a bit myself. I don't think MSE's ideas about Hogan's swing are any better or worse than

two pages of nothing. who freaking cares. 

I am not sure how I stumbled in here, but this thread is pretty insane - its got something for everyone - actually more like nothing for anyone.   I not a child of social media, so I am stil

Posted Images

And what kind of egomaniac or psychopath would be delusional or shameless enough to "photoshopped" this image to use as his youtube video graphic title?! This is "Silence of The Lambs" level of creepy!

 

450097515_thenerve.jpg.8af38ba924858fad7659c603684753dc.jpg

 

Freakin amazing really!

 

Wow... couldn't even break 80 while selling fake knowledge but brazen enough to compare yourself with the true greats.....  I'm speechless.

 

p.s.

Does anybody know if Jack's or Chi Chi's people could sue MSE for this abomination of a shameless self plug???

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

And what kind of egomaniac or psychopath would be delusional or shameless enough to "photoshopped" this image to use as his youtube video graphic title?! This is "Silence of The Lambs" level of creepy!

 

450097515_thenerve.jpg.8af38ba924858fad7659c603684753dc.jpg

 

Freakin amazing really!

 

Wow... couldn't even break 80 while selling fake knowledge but brazen enough to compare yourself with the true greats.....  I'm speechless.

 

p.s.

Does anybody know if Jack's or Chi Chi's people could sue MSE for this abomination of a shameless self plug???

 

 

 

He did meet them so not photoshopped. 

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12 hours ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

And what kind of egomaniac or psychopath would be delusional or shameless enough to "photoshopped" this image to use as his youtube video graphic title?! This is "Silence of The Lambs" level of creepy!

 

450097515_thenerve.jpg.8af38ba924858fad7659c603684753dc.jpg

 

Freakin amazing really!

 

Wow... couldn't even break 80 while selling fake knowledge but brazen enough to compare yourself with the true greats.....  I'm speechless.

 

p.s.

Does anybody know if Jack's or Chi Chi's people could sue MSE for this abomination of a shameless self plug???

 

 

 

This is not photoshopped. While I do not in anyway endorse or support MSE, the guy did manage to spend time with both Jack and Chi Chi while making a documentary about Hogan. 

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13 minutes ago, Jedaigeki said:

This is not photoshopped. While I do not in anyway endorse or support MSE, the guy did manage to spend time with both Jack and Chi Chi while making a documentary about Hogan. 

Agreed. But if those guys knew the extent to which he is pimping off Hogan’s name they would kick him to the curb. They would say hell we played with the guy and heard lots of first hand stories but still would not sting people for the idea that they had “cracked the Hogan code”. 

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Jack looks a little too young there to be a recent pic but could just be the angle.  

 

OP:  I agree with everything you've said thus far, but you seem to be pretty well consumed by this.  Did MSE wrong you or disparage you somehow?

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10 hours ago, powerfade66 said:

Agreed. But if those guys knew the extent to which he is pimping off Hogan’s name they would kick him to the curb. They would say hell we played with the guy and heard lots of first hand stories but still would not sting people for the idea that they had “cracked the Hogan code”. 

 

My point exactly!

 

 I know that in fact he did meet both of them. But the fact remains that the photo was photoshopped. Ask any expert on this matter. It wasn't taken like the way he showed it.

 

And did Jack and Chi Chi gave MSE permission to use their image in this manner. I doubt it!

 

Look at the composition of the photo. MSE in the middle with Jack and Chi Chi to the side and lower than MSE(notice the eyeline level). Look at Jack and Chi Chi's face. It's from different photos. They have no idea they were gonna be used as such.

 

To any psychologist out there. Isn't this kind of s*** a classic narcissistic behavior on MSE part? Not to mentioned tacky and disrespectful to the two legends in the image!

 

 

 

10 hours ago, toc said:

Jack looks a little too young there to be a recent pic but could just be the angle.  --> it's from another picture. It wasn't taken like that.

 

OP:  I agree with everything you've said thus far, but you seem to be pretty well consumed by this.  Did MSE wrong you or disparage you somehow?

 

This is THE HOGAN FORUM. Ben Hogan is a legend. One of if not the best golfer of all times. His life was a shining example of HONOR and PERSERVERANCE. He inspired countless golfers and people all over the world to become both a better golfer and person. And I will not let this charlatan use his good name to stroke his ego! No way sir!

 

And must I have any other reason than to expose a fraud who swindles people for money?

 

And isn't the way he's using legends like Hogan, Jack and Chi Chi low enough for me to despise his methods? I do not hate him as a person. But his method is not honorable.

 

I don't get your logic. Does he need to "personally" hurt me in order for me to call him out? So you just go through life "unaware" and "uncaring" towards bad things happening to people in general as long as it doesn't "effect you personally" sir? Is that what you're saying? 

 

 

 

Look people. I know I'm not making any fans so far with me calling out MSE. But the fact remains. MSE is a fraud who is using other people's name for his own gains unethically. Simple as that.

 

 

 

 

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So I thought you were sick n tired of this thread Snick59?! Why on earth are you still lurking here? But I think I know why...

 

Be a man and come out and let us hear your side of the story MSE! 

 

Cause none of your "students" or even "friends" of yours are here to defend you. Why is that? Or is it because all of them are paid actors or simply your victims who are gagged by the NDA you have them signed huh?

 

FRAUD!!!

 

snick.jpg.6f2653a5bd33ed9ecc3abcaeaa6b9916.jpg

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Or better yet, make that all shot vlog I asked for with a credible witness and I'll shut the f*** up and apologize?

 

Couldn't even do that could you MSE?

 

Cause you can't shoot in the 70s!

 

The Hogan Code is bullxxxx!

 

You used Mr. Ben Hogan for your own gains! Shameful!

 

Liar!

 

 

p.s.

First post on page 1 updated with more info.

 

 

 

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Swaggolf6112,

 

I’ve followed this thread as it’s become more disturbing each day.

 

What will you do if MSE ignores you, as I would recommend he does, unless he can catch himself breaking par on video? Will you just keep pouring hate into this cesspool? Is this your endgame?
 

Self-righteousness can be satisfying and addictive, but it can also lead to poor decision making. Is this the best way to direct your energy? What else should you be doing with your life?

 

In relation to your main argument, I think MSE plays well enough for a guy that doesn’t claim to be a professional. Is there a single piece of advice, or suggestion that he’s made, that you specifically disagree with? Can you accept that he has actually helped people play better golf?

 

And, no, I’m not MSE and I’ve never met him or paid for his teaching materials. Just a fan.

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10 hours ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

 

 

This is THE HOGAN FORUM. Ben Hogan is a legend. One of if not the best golfer of all times. His life was a shining example of HONOR and PERSERVERANCE. He inspired countless golfers and people all over the world to become both a better golfer and person. And I will not let this charlatan use his good name to stroke his ego! No way sir!

 

And must I have any other reason than to expose a fraud who swindles people for money?

 

And isn't the way he's using legends like Hogan, Jack and Chi Chi low enough for me to despise his methods? I do not hate him as a person. But his method is not honorable.

 

I don't get your logic. Does he need to "personally" hurt me in order for me to call him out? So you just go through life "unaware" and "uncaring" towards bad things happening to people in general as long as it doesn't "effect you personally" sir? Is that what you're saying? 

 

 

 

Look people. I know I'm not making any fans so far with me calling out MSE. But the fact remains. MSE is a fraud who is using other people's name for his own gains unethically. Simple as that.

 

 

 

 

It was just a question.  I wasn't saying anything other than you seem quite passionate about this so I was wondering if you had a personal stake, that is all.  I think MSE is a joke and anyone handing money over to him should be aware of everything you describe.  I applaud the idea of standing up for people to whom bad things happen, but to me personally I wouldn't characterize this situation as a "bad thing".   

 

As I said, I agree with everything you have said notwithstanding your use of quotation marks.

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9 hours ago, powerfade66 said:

Hello we have another MSE sympathiser. Every comment and reaction on the MSE fanboy side of things. 🤔 

Have you read my other comment in this thread? (see below) Hardly a sympathiser, never heard of the guy, did not like the video I saw. But some of the stuff in this thread is pretty over the top - not so much in its core content, but in style and language. I guess I just can't run my head away from the car crash. 

 

 

 

I am not sure how I stumbled in here, but this thread is pretty insane - its got something for everyone - actually more like nothing for anyone.

 

I not a child of social media, so I am still completely lost on how any of the videos linked have followers. These golfers look pretty average, nothing wrong with that, but they also don't produce entertaining content some talking, bad swing, more talk, missed putt, shot of ugly golf course- seems pretty boring could not get though watching more than a minute. 

 

I also don't get how that guys swing looks like Hogan beyond some surface resemblance. 

 

Basically I just don't 'get' what going on here - nothing adds up. , but I am enjoying the aggression. 

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13 hours ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

So I thought you were sick n tired of this thread Snick59?! Why on earth are you still lurking here? But I think I know why...

 

Be a man and come out and let us hear your side of the story MSE! 

 

Cause none of your "students" or even "friends" of yours are here to defend you. Why is that? Or is it because all of them are paid actors or simply your victims who are gagged by the NDA you have them signed huh?

 

FRAUD!!!

 

snick.jpg.6f2653a5bd33ed9ecc3abcaeaa6b9916.jpg

I’m only agreeing with the the post, you’re the one who who seems to be bent out of shape, and consumed with MSE, in a very  childish manner I might add. I said all along I didn’t think it was right for Christo to profit off the Hogan name, you just can’t seem to let it go, and no I am not MSE himself, did someone make you in charge of the Hogan empire or something? Get a life. 

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1 hour ago, snick59 said:

I’m only agreeing with the the post, you’re the one who who seems to be bent out of shape, and consumed with MSE, in a very  childish manner I might add. I said all along I didn’t think it was right for Christo to profit off the Hogan name, you just can’t seem to let it go, and no I am not MSE himself, did someone make you in charge of the Hogan empire or something? Get a life. 

He accuses anyone that disagrees with him of being MSE lol.

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22 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Haven't read this whole thread--kinda skimmed it but I think I got the theme. I've studied Hogan's swing quite a bit myself. I don't think MSE's ideas about Hogan's swing are any better or worse than all of the well known instructors that have made Hogan a foundation of their teaching. They are all saying a lot of the same things. Although i have fun discussing the mysteries behind Hogan's swing, there is a lot of footage out there now showing us his action. Regardless of the theories you try to employ to replicate his action, after 8 hours on the range you're confronted with this inescapable truth: success in this journey is 5% theory and 95% hard work.

 

Since, thankfully, we live in a free market economy, he has every right to sell as a product what he thinks has value. It is a voluntary transaction. If the consumer feels betrayed or misled, he can take that up with MSE. If all of his consumers think they are getting a good product, who am I to complain?


Hey, Virt, glad to see you’re still out there!

 

Are you back to working on your Hogan swing yet or still concentrating on MORAD? 
 

Take care and stay safe!

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12 hours ago, toc said:

It was just a question.  I wasn't saying anything other than you seem quite passionate about this so I was wondering if you had a personal stake, that is all.  I think MSE is a joke and anyone handing money over to him should be aware of everything you describe.  I applaud the idea of standing up for people to whom bad things happen, but to me personally I wouldn't characterize this situation as a "bad thing".   

 

As I said, I agree with everything you have said notwithstanding your use of quotation marks.

 

I apologize sir. I hope you forgive me for any transgression on my part. I appreciate your input in this. I hope MSE will soon come up with that 18 hole all shot vlog so we can put this issue to rest.

 

Cheers sir. Best regards.

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12 hours ago, ElMacho said:

Swaggolf6112,

 

I’ve followed this thread as it’s become more disturbing each day.

 

What will you do if MSE ignores you, as I would recommend he does, unless he can catch himself breaking par on video? Will you just keep pouring hate into this cesspool? Is this your endgame?
 

Self-righteousness can be satisfying and addictive, but it can also lead to poor decision making. Is this the best way to direct your energy? What else should you be doing with your life?

 

In relation to your main argument, I think MSE plays well enough for a guy that doesn’t claim to be a professional. Is there a single piece of advice, or suggestion that he’s made, that you specifically disagree with? Can you accept that he has actually helped people play better golf?

 

And, no, I’m not MSE and I’ve never met him or paid for his teaching materials. Just a fan.

 

Who exactly played better golf because of MSE??? I don't see one person coming out to support him with evidence to support that? 

 

MSE couldn't even play better golf himself? He's still a stall flipper who can't break 80 and lies through his teeth to keep his business going!

 

And good to have you back. I knew you couldn't stay away... you smell blood and swoop back to try to spin this into making MSE a victim just because a couple of folks is starting to see me as crazy or that I have a personal vendetta towards this charlatan.

 

I am passionate about golf and I have tremendous respect for Ben Hogan so excuse me if I can't just let someone with low moral standards exploit the two things I love. If this point can't get across to any of you guys reading this then we'll just agree to disagree. But please know that I am only against MSE and nobody else.

 

Well guess what... the only victim in all of this are the unsuspecting golfers who have faith in MSE and paid money for his FAKE KNOWLEDGE!

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9 hours ago, snick59 said:

I’m only agreeing with the the post, you’re the one who who seems to be bent out of shape, and consumed with MSE, in a very  childish manner I might add. I said all along I didn’t think it was right for Christo to profit off the Hogan name, you just can’t seem to let it go, and no I am not MSE himself, did someone make you in charge of the Hogan empire or something? Get a life. 

 

Oh I have a life. A good honest life not involving scamming people for money. What I have I earned fair and square.

 

And what is it to you anyways Snick? Why are you so passionate about turning this into me being crazy and childish when everything I say about MSE you said you agree with?

 

I really don't get your logic?

 

What Hogan empire am I in charge off exactly? Still trying to steer the point of this thread away from the simple fact that MSE should proof to people he could really shoot in the 70s as he claims using his "Hogan Code". Why is this point so difficult for you "fair level headed" people to get??? Boggles the mind really.

 

So for example if years ago someone tried to warn people to not fall into the trap of Bernie Madoff scam and is really passionate about it, that person is crazy and childish??? Am I getting this right?

 

 

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8 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Haven't read this whole thread--kinda skimmed it but I think I got the theme. I've studied Hogan's swing quite a bit myself. I don't think MSE's ideas about Hogan's swing are any better or worse than all of the well known instructors that have made Hogan a foundation of their teaching. They are all saying a lot of the same things. Although i have fun discussing the mysteries behind Hogan's swing, there is a lot of footage out there now showing us his action. Regardless of the theories you try to employ to replicate his action, after 8 hours on the range you're confronted with this inescapable truth: success in this journey is 5% theory and 95% hard work.

 

Since, thankfully, we live in a free market economy, he has every right to sell as a product what he thinks has value. It is a voluntary transaction. If the consumer feels betrayed or misled, he can take that up with MSE. If all of his consumers think they are getting a good product, who am I to complain?

 

I respect your point sir. Cheers!

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Ok, folks...

 

I apologize if my method and language have been childish and bordering on looney.

 

 

I respect all your opinions and would respectfully like to get back to hoping that one day MSE will show us that all shot vlog with a credible witness.

 

 

Until then... 

 

Hey, MSE. Apart from the fact that I think you're not truthful about your abilities and I really do hope you prove me wrong....

 

I APOLOGIZE FOR MY HARSH LANGUAGE TOWARDS YOU. I GOT CARRIED AWAY. MY BAD. 

 

You're not a criminal. You're just someone who is also passionate about Hogan as we all are. 

 

 

I will be waiting for you to prove me wrong... 

 

Cheers MSE!

 

Best Regards,

SwagGolf6112

 

 

 

 

 

p.s.

To all forum member who respond to this post. I respectfully accept all your arguments and I agree that you all have a good point sirs and madams.

 

I will now shut the f*** up and go out to the range and do what I love the most.... try to find that "magic" Hogan formula. Have a lovely day folks.

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1 hour ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

Ok, folks...

 

I apologize if my method and language have been childish and bordering on looney.

 

 

I respect all your opinions and would respectfully like to get back to hoping that one day MSE will show us that all shot vlog with a credible witness.

 

 

Until then... 

 

Hey, MSE. Apart from the fact that I think you're not truthful about your abilities and I really do hope you prove me wrong....

 

I APOLOGIZE FOR MY HARSH LANGUAGE TOWARDS YOU. I GOT CARRIED AWAY. MY BAD. 

 

You're not a criminal. You're just someone who is also passionate about Hogan as we all are. 

 

 

I will be waiting for you to prove me wrong... 

 

Cheers MSE!

 

Best Regards,

SwagGolf6112

 

 

 

 

 

p.s.

To all forum member who respond to this post. I respectfully accept all your arguments and I agree that you all have a good point sirs and madams.

 

I will now shut the f*** up and go out to the range and do what I love the most.... try to find that "magic" Hogan formula. Have a lovely day folks.

Sounds like a reasonable post. Just a heads up, one element of making your posts come off as abnormal, is your use of different fonts, colours and bolding. In the written forum world, using the default font size and colour is the 'normal' way to communicate and is done in 99.9% of posts on this forum. When you start over using a mix of  unique fonts, it makes your post come off 'unique' - and not in a good way. Go easy on the red copy, bolding and large font sizes as it makes it seem like you are yelling at us with a wacky voice.

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