Miracle Swing Experience( former My Swing Evolution) is a Charlatan!

[toc]

I love when this thread periodically pops up.

[ElMacho]

1 hour ago, scarf_face said:

as far as BBG. not to derail but. I mean that guy seems pretty honest but shouldn't be lumped in here. as I can see from the few dozen videos I've watched, he's not claiming to be an expert. it's actually a really a pretty cool concept. a passionate, regular golfer, going around to all the instructors on youtube and taking lessons from them and sharing the videos. he does camps he doesn't claim to be the teacher he has milo lines there working with him.

 

he has his idiosyncrasies, but it's an honest channel and I personally have loved being able to see "inside" the lessons with an actual golfer that most people can relate to getting instructions from all the guys we see around the country, rather than just seeing those instructors working with their model students who are usually top NCAA or mini tour etc. type players who have been golfing since they were 6 years old etc. 

Exactly! Then again, I’m still subscribed to this thread because the mock outrage is pretty entertaining.

[powerfade66]

On 10/22/2021 at 5:20 AM, ElMacho said:

Exactly! Then again, I’m still subscribed to this thread because the mock outrage is pretty entertaining.

Mock outrage? The guy is an 80s shooter taking money from people saying he has Hogan’s 9 Fundamentals and 15 secrets or whatever his latest catch phrase is. I’m not exaggerating on those either. It’s a fantastic world we live in, where a B grader can call himself a “Coaching Pro” and pimp off the name of a legend of the sport. The Ben Hogan company should be ashamed of themselves. 
 

 

 

[teddyironboy]

On 10/21/2021 at 11:42 AM, scarf_face said:

as far as BBG. not to derail but. I mean that guy seems pretty honest but shouldn't be lumped in here. as I can see from the few dozen videos I've watched, he's not claiming to be an expert. it's actually a really a pretty cool concept. a passionate, regular golfer, going around to all the instructors on youtube and taking lessons from them and sharing the videos. he does camps he doesn't claim to be the teacher he has milo lines there working with him.

 

he has his idiosyncrasies, but it's an honest channel and I personally have loved being able to see "inside" the lessons with an actual golfer that most people can relate to getting instructions from all the guys we see around the country, rather than just seeing those instructors working with their model students who are usually top NCAA or mini tour etc. type players who have been golfing since they were 6 years old etc. 

 

Yea I agree. His channel is great because they're not just any random youtube coach, theyr'e some really great instructors. And he asks good questions and lets you really see into their mind. Something that format is a lot better than a coach just telling you an idea. With MSE, it's just Christo lol.

[teddyironboy]

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Edited November 1, 2021 by teddyironboy
double post

[SwagGolf6112]

On 10/22/2021 at 1:20 AM, ElMacho said:

Exactly! Then again, I’m still subscribed to this thread because the mock outrage is pretty entertaining.

 

 

How are you ElMacho. Hope all is well. Love you bro.

 

 

 

[powerfade66]

[ElMacho]

1 hour ago, powerfade66 said:

 

I’m very much a beginner, having never broken 80. So, I understand that I might be missing something, but I don’t hate that swing at all. Could you help me understand what’s wrong with it? Not being sarcastic here.

[powerfade66]

3 minutes ago, ElMacho said:

I’m very much a beginner, having never broken 80. So, I understand that I might be missing something, but I don’t hate that swing at all. Could you help me understand what’s wrong with it? Not being sarcastic here.

He regularly posts about knowing Hogan’s secret(s). This video has Hogan hashtags. That release is the opposite of Ben Hogan in the way he rolls over it with his right hand and arm. 

[Starched]

1 hour ago, powerfade66 said:

He regularly posts about knowing Hogan’s secret(s). This video has Hogan hashtags. That release is the opposite of Ben Hogan in the way he rolls over it with his right hand and arm. 

His main difference is lack of rotation and his hips moving toward the ball aka early extension. His handle approaches from high above the plane and he flicks his wrists at the ball trying to catch up.  The reason his swing looks Hoganesque to the untrained eye is the flat backswing and the derby cap. That’s about it. He does have nice rhythm and tempo he’s just not in pro level positions. That is fine. Most people aren’t. The issue is how he has co-opted the Hogan thing for personal financial gain. It would be one thing if he actually had a fundamentally great swing then he could talk Hogan all day and give his version of “the secret”. He’s just a 5 handicap type dude that puts some time into marketing and his effort. That’s about it. I would not listen to a thing he says about golf tbh. He seems like an OK person but you can tell he is late to golf. You can always tell someone who picked the game up as an adult. There is a certain awkwardness to how they do everything. 

[powerfade66]

23 minutes ago, Starched said:

His main difference is lack of rotation and his hips moving toward the ball aka early extension. His handle approaches from high above the plane and he flicks his wrists at the ball trying to catch up.  The reason his swing looks Hoganesque to the untrained eye is the flat backswing and the derby cap. That’s about it. He does have nice rhythm and tempo he’s just not in pro level positions. That is fine. Most people aren’t. The issue is how he has co-opted the Hogan thing for personal financial gain. It would be one thing if he actually had a fundamentally great swing then he could talk Hogan all day and give his version of “the secret”. He’s just a 5 handicap type dude that puts some time into marketing and his effort. That’s about it. I would not listen to a thing he says about golf tbh. He seems like an OK person but you can tell he is late to golf. You can always tell someone who picked the game up as an adult. There is a certain awkwardness to how they do everything. 

I agree with all of that except the 5 handicap. All the rounds he has reported have been low 80s or high 70s. There is something very wrong with profiting off the name of a legend of the sport. Particularly because naive internet consumers confuse confidence with ability and authenticity. He’s not better than any other high single figure handicapper at any club anywhere in the world who decided to try and get serious about the game. He has never played competition in all of his “evolution”. 
 

You mentioned rhythm and tempo and I agree with that too. We all have good rhythm when it’s never interrupted by trying out those new swing thoughts with a pencil in our pocket and putting it on the line.

 

The fact this business of his is apparently working is echoed by this thread in how so many have defended him and say they just come to this thread for entertainment value. What he is doing is fraud on the legacy of one of the greatest to have played the game. If Hogan were alive today he would punch this guy straight in the nose. The Ben Hogan company are equally to blame for endorsing and associating with him. They too are just pimping off the Ben Hogan name though so that’s hardly a surprise. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by powerfade66

[SwagGolf6112]

Funny how every once in awhile MSE would title his videos with "Something Something Hogan" just to spike the views which sadly is dwindling nowadays. Not because of any of our posts here but from the majority of golfers who've already clicked on his previous videos and have decided for themselves that he's either delusional to claim he knows Hogan's secret or simple just a fraud. Sad either way.

 

He was on the right path for a brief period of time when he stopped using Hogan's name to get views. But like a drug addict he just couldn't help himself and went back to his old ways once he knew he himself had nothing to offer.

 

And as always, ElMacho or Snick will swoop in to defend his honor. You watch LOL

[mantan]

Yikes!  I fell across some of the clips that gave me a different way to think about something I was working on and had some success.  I was absolutely striping my irons at the range and played really well my last three rounds. I was considering getting the whole series.

 

My take on this thread as an average hack trying to get better.

 

1. I understand the high level of esteem many golfers, especially those in this forum, have for Ben Hogan, but it's 2021. I think a lot of golfers aren't swayed by Hogan's mystique as a selling point anymore. He's an all-time great ballstriker. But being as few people have been able to replicate his swing in decades....they aren't expecting to get it from YouTube.

 

2. I've taken lessons from a lot of instructors, and it never was a consideration if shoot scratch or better in a VLOG.  There are a lot of guys who can pass a PAT who suck as instructors.  One of the best lessons I received was from a golfer in wheelchair who never had a traditional swing. It's more about being able to effectively convey information to help my game than what you shoot when you play. (BTW, the few times I've had an instructor hit a shot or club in a lesson, the results usually weren't a tour level shot. And they dropped some line about 'the worst thing about teaching is I don't get to play anymore' with a chuckle'.)

 

3. As long as there has been golf, there have been people peddling their systems, books, training aids, etc.  The internet is no different. Everybody from MSE to Scratch Golf Academy to Eric Corgona to Chris Ryan to Mike Malaska to Monte S. and others are selling golf improvement online.  Golf consumers know it's caveat emptor.  Most of this stuff costs the price of a round of golf.  You get what you pay for. 

 

The energy and venom on this thread almost felt more like a personal vendetta than the review I was first searching for.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by mantan

[Starched]

Malaska is a very effective teacher. Watch his videos. They are simple and effective but mostly for the better player.  Christo doesn’t actually understand what made Hogan’s swing work nor does he have a decent impact position. I think that is what all the griping is about. However, it is quite possible that you taking an interest in your game and working hard is paying off. Even if you are “trying” what you see in the videos that doesn’t mean that is why you are improving. It’s a process and a journey of discovering your swing. I like Cristo I think he has made a decent channel. But I would never in a million years take golf tips from him. He flips at impact and early extends. He has improved from when he started and watching his journey was fun. I just don’t think he has enough experience to actually teach any method, not charge money for it, but it’s a free country so good for him. 

[ElMacho]

34 minutes ago, mantan said:

The energy and venom on this thread almost felt more like a personal vendetta than the review I was first searching for

Amen! Subscribe though, it’s addictive.

[mantan]

2 hours ago, Starched said:

Malaska is a very effective teacher. Watch his videos. They are simple and effective but mostly for the better player.  Christo doesn’t actually understand what made Hogan’s swing work nor does he have a decent impact position. I think that is what all the griping is about. However, it is quite possible that you taking an interest in your game and working hard is paying off. Even if you are “trying” what you see in the videos that doesn’t mean that is why you are improving. It’s a process and a journey of discovering your swing. I like Cristo I think he has made a decent channel. But I would never in a million years take golf tips from him. He flips at impact and early extends. He has improved from when he started and watching his journey was fun. I just don’t think he has enough experience to actually teach any method, not charge money for it, but it’s a free country so good for him. 

 

That's interesting because he helped me grasp a Malaska concept. Then it all clicked. We'll see how it continues. Online golf instruction has always been a challenge for me. I'm a total hack, but my problems are opposite of most golfers. Sometimes you want a guy to help you get from A to B.  I have no delusions of ever swinging like Hogan, so I took all the marketing with a grain of salt.

[powerfade66]

12 minutes ago, mantan said:

 

That's interesting because he helped me grasp a Malaska concept. Then it all clicked. We'll see how it continues. Online golf instruction has always been a challenge for me. I'm a total hack, but my problems are opposite of most golfers. Sometimes you want a guy to help you get from A to B.  I have no delusions of ever swinging like Hogan, so I took all the marketing with a grain of salt.

And it’s clever marketing because nearly everywhere you go on the net people say Hogan was the greatest ballstriker. So they search for Hogan.

 

There’s a big placebo effect in golf because nearly every idea that you get excited about at home works when you go to the course. Often not because it’s a good idea, but because you put a confident and fully committed move on it. Then you hit a few bad ones and go back and repeat the cycle. 
 

He does that too and dresses it up as “premium content”. Just throw around the words Hogan, Trevino, Player, Mickey Wright, lots of <player name>‘s fundamentals, <player name>‘s secret and store it behind a paywall. 💰💰💰 

Edited November 24, 2021 by powerfade66

[Starched]

Cristo watches Malaska videos because he has realized he has more answers than Cristo does. I think we al should watch as much content as we can find until it works combined with our practice. Just don’t pay for it. Dig it out of the dirt yourself. 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, mantan said:

Yikes!  I fell across some of the clips that gave me a different way to think about something I was working on and had some success.  I was absolutely striping my irons at the range and played really well my last three rounds. I was considering getting the whole series.

 

My take on this thread as an average hack trying to get better.

 

1. I understand the high level of esteem many golfers, especially those in this forum, have for Ben Hogan, but it's 2021. I think a lot of golfers aren't swayed by Hogan's mystique as a selling point anymore. He's an all-time great ballstriker. But being as few people have been able to replicate his swing in decades....they aren't expecting to get it from YouTube.

 

2. I've taken lessons from a lot of instructors, and it never was a consideration if shoot scratch or better in a VLOG.  There are a lot of guys who can pass a PAT who suck as instructors.  One of the best lessons I received was from a golfer in wheelchair who never had a traditional swing. It's more about being able to effectively convey information to help my game than what you shoot when you play. (BTW, the few times I've had an instructor hit a shot or club in a lesson, the results usually weren't a tour level shot. And they dropped some line about 'the worst thing about teaching is I don't get to play anymore' with a chuckle'.)

 

3. As long as there has been golf, there have been people peddling their systems, books, training aids, etc.  The internet is no different. Everybody from MSE to Scratch Golf Academy to Eric Corgona to Chris Ryan to Mike Malaska to Monte S. and others are selling golf improvement online.  Golf consumers know it's caveat emptor.  Most of this stuff costs the price of a round of golf.  You get what you pay for. 

 

The energy and venom on this thread almost felt more like a personal vendetta than the review I was first searching for.

 

 

Comparing Christo - a film maker and rank amateur - to those excellent teachers is tantamount to criminal. 

[powerfade66]

21 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Comparing Christo - a film maker and rank amateur - to those excellent teachers is tantamount to criminal. 

Yes. And speaking of amateur, I wonder if he realises he can’t compete in amateur events now. 

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, powerfade66 said:

Yes. And speaking of amateur, I wonder if he realises he can’t compete in amateur events now. 

He couldn't compete in them before... 🤓

[snick59]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:19 PM, SwagGolf6112 said:

Funny how every once in awhile MSE would title his videos with "Something Something Hogan" just to spike the views which sadly is dwindling nowadays. Not because of any of our posts here but from the majority of golfers who've already clicked on his previous videos and have decided for themselves that he's either delusional to claim he knows Hogan's secret or simple just a fraud. Sad either way.

 

He was on the right path for a brief period of time when he stopped using Hogan's name to get views. But like a drug addict he just couldn't help himself and went back to his old ways once he knew he himself had nothing to offer.

 

And as always, ElMacho or Snick will swoop in to defend his honor. You watch LOL

I couldn’t resist, if you go back and read my posts you’ll see that I agreed with you many times, I was mostly questioning why it bothers you so much.  This world is full of thieves profiting off the weak or uninformed it’s not just in golf and it’s nothing new.
  Every so called golf coach is out there on YouTube with a tip of the week pretty much forgetting about last week’s tip, all selling something, like Eric Cogorno, his first five minutes of video is a commercial, he should really put them at the end so I don’t have to bother fast forwarding, all this guy talks about is positions it’s amazing he can focus on hitting the ball, and then they all they have an online school and website. The funny thing is the comments, people saying they took this one tip to the course and knocked ten strokes off their game or they never hit it better, like that one tip changed their whole game overnight. That’s what really frustrates me, you’ll also have ten different coaches…ten different swings, all contradicting each other. Take BBG, he jumps from one guy to another, he was with Malaska tipping the shaft then he goes to Milo who says don’t tip, he was with Monte, all with different ideas, you’d think this guy would have found his swing and just play golf already but it’s a business. 
  I was not so much defending Christo I was just lumping him in with the rest of them, yes he takes it to the extreme with the Hogan nonsense but I really think he should go back to the drawing board because he’s looking less like Hogan and more like the hack he was when he started. 

[mantan]

On 11/23/2021 at 8:21 PM, Starched said:

Malaska is a very effective teacher. Watch his videos. They are simple and effective but mostly for the better player.  Christo doesn’t actually understand what made Hogan’s swing work nor does he have a decent impact position. I think that is what all the griping is about. However, it is quite possible that you taking an interest in your game and working hard is paying off. Even if you are “trying” what you see in the videos that doesn’t mean that is why you are improving. It’s a process and a journey of discovering your swing. I like Cristo I think he has made a decent channel. But I would never in a million years take golf tips from him. He flips at impact and early extends. He has improved from when he started and watching his journey was fun. I just don’t think he has enough experience to actually teach any method, not charge money for it, but it’s a free country so good for him. 

 

Malaska is really good. I'm a hack, but my swing issue has always been that the clubhead drops behind me and come too far from the inside.  And rather than early extension, my issue is trying to hold and angle way too long. 90% of the stuff out there is fixing OTT or early extension. I think a lot of online golf instruction is about trying to course correct the issues players struggle with. So what resonates or seems way off base comes from when someone is emphasizing one or highlighting a fix or correction to one side of the puzzle.  You kind of have to pick what works for you from some instructors when you know what you are trying to fix. I got one nugget from Christo on the initial of the downswing where Malaska is talking about forearm rotation that resonated more than Malaska. But a lot of the stuff with silly names (Shangra-La) went out one ear and out the other.

 

Decided Christo's stuff wasn't worth a subscription.  I think another reason his stuff is appealing to golfers is it's marketed as a success story.  A guy who was your typical bogey golfer who remade his swing to become a good player.  That's the brass ring of hope that sells guys like me a whole lot of golf equipment, instruction, articles, etc...when it's usually just a lack of talent issue, lol.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by mantan

[powerfade66]

35 minutes ago, mantan said:

 

Malaska is really good. I'm a hack, but my swing issue has always been that the clubhead drops behind me and come too far from the inside.  And rather than early extension, my issue is trying to hold and angle way too long. 90% of the stuff out there is fixing OTT or early extension. I think a lot of online golf instruction is about trying to course correct the issues players struggle with. So what resonates or seems way off base comes from when someone is emphasizing one or highlighting a fix or correction to one side of the puzzle.  You kind of have to pick what works for you from some instructors when you know what you are trying to fix. I got one nugget from Christo on the initial of the downswing where Malaska is talking about forearm rotation that resonated more than Malaska. But a lot of the stuff with silly names (Shangra-La) went out one ear and out the other.

 

Decided Christo's stuff wasn't worth a subscription.  I think another reason his stuff is appealing to golfers is it's marketed as a success story.  A guy who was your typical bogey golfer who remade his swing to become a good player.  That's the brass ring of hope that sells guys like me a whole lot of golf equipment, instruction, articles, etc...when it's usually just a lack of talent issue, lol.

 

 

 

 

From a bogey golfer to an every second hole bogey golfer. 

[SwagGolf6112]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:37 PM, snick59 said:

I couldn’t resist, 

Hey snick. How r u bro. Missed you. Hope all is well. Cheers!

 he should go back to the drawing board because he’s looking less like Hogan and more like the hack he was when he started. 

This we can agree on.

 

 

 

[powerfade66]

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, powerfade66 said:

🤦🏻‍♂️

[Tpfol]

The next million people who send me 1 dollar will get a copy of my book, "How I made a million dollars on the internet"

[RobertBaron]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:37 AM, snick59 said:

Take BBG, he jumps from one guy to another, he was with Malaska tipping the shaft then he goes to Milo who says don’t tip, he was with Monte, all with different ideas, you’d think this guy would have found his swing and just play golf already but it’s a business. 

I really like the exploration/experimentation side of golf which is why I’m a fan of BBG. Yea he himself could probably improve more if he focused solely on himself getting better at golf by sticking it out with one philosophy or teacher but the content wouldn’t be nearly as interesting for someone like me. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by RobertBaron

[tgreenwood11]

Look, Mr. Hogan was extremely flexible in his prime.  He could bend his thumb into his forearm.  Lag anyone?  He was a freak.   You can't use any of his "secrets" other than practicing your butt off with your swing.