2020 US Open

[Dr. Block]

39 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You left out player improvement beyond fitness.  We romanticize the ability of players past and think the modern player cannot be better. I recently saw an interview with Claude Harmon III who’s stated that it would be a massive failure for instructors if the players were not better today. Every generation should be better as they learn what worked, what did not, and how to improve. Pair that with the additional tools available today with video, radar, and various swing measurements that can be made why would players not be better?
 

if you have not seen it I encourage everyone to watch the Chris Como Swing Expedition show from Monday. BDC is on a quest to get better and more consistent and is looking at body mechanics with Como in ways I have never heard discussed in golf instruction. And I have been around the game as a player and student of instruction for about 50 years. The two of them are going beyond building a repeatable swing to finding new ways to do so. For instance, and I am certainly not an expert so bear with my mistakes in describing what they are doing....BDC is working with getting his arms in a position where he cannot miss it left. Not just building a swing that avoided it but having him lead arm, for example, internally rotated throughout the swing so that the club face cannot close.  Yes it creates a somewhat funky looking swing compared to what we all have known and loved but it is difficult to deny its effectiveness.

 Few players, if any, are willing to put themselves out there the way this guy does. He is on a relentless mission to improve and will do whatever it takes with his body and swing to get there.

  I am not a fan but admire his dedication. It goes above and beyond what others do to “improve” their game imo.

Great post.  It is pretty amazing how much power he can generate with minimal lag and clubface rotation.   

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

You left out player improvement beyond fitness.  We romanticize the ability of players past and think the modern player cannot be better. I recently saw an interview with Claude Harmon III who’s stated that it would be a massive failure for instructors if the players were not better today. Every generation should be better as they learn what worked, what did not, and how to improve. Pair that with the additional tools available today with video, radar, and various swing measurements that can be made why would players not be better?
 

if you have not seen it I encourage everyone to watch the Chris Como Swing Expedition show from Monday. BDC is on a quest to get better and more consistent and is looking at body mechanics with Como in ways I have never heard discussed in golf instruction. And I have been around the game as a player and student of instruction for about 50 years. The two of them are going beyond building a repeatable swing to finding new ways to do so. For instance, and I am certainly not an expert so bear with my mistakes in describing what they are doing....BDC is working with getting his arms in a position where he cannot miss it left. Not just building a swing that avoided it but having him lead arm, for example, internally rotated throughout the swing so that the club face cannot close.  Yes it creates a somewhat funky looking swing compared to what we all have known and loved but it is difficult to deny its effectiveness.

 Few players, if any, are willing to put themselves out there the way this guy does. He is on a relentless mission to improve and will do whatever it takes with his body and swing to get there.

  I am not a fan but admire his dedication. It goes above and beyond what others do to “improve” their game imo.

There is no doubt in my mind that modern players have much better overall short games than classic players.  This is not a slight to the classic players.  If they played on modern greens, green complexes, and bunkers they would be great as well, but putting on and chipping to Stimp 7/8 bumpy greens nullifies short game skills.  You can be good, but not great.

[Ferguson]

3 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

There is no doubt in my mind that modern players have much better overall short games than classic players.  This is not a slight to the classic players.  If they played on modern greens, green complexes, and bunkers they would be great as well, but putting on and chipping to Stimp 7/8 bumpy greens nullifies short game skills.  You can be good, but not great.

 

 

But, along those lines, wouldn't you say playing on inconsistent 7/8 bumpy greens with spike marks requires a special set of skills? 

 

The greens of today are more consistent making the surface not necessarily more easy, but certainly more predictable.  

 

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

9 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

But, along those lines, wouldn't you say playing on inconsistent 7/8 bumpy greens with spike marks requires a special set of skills? 

 

The greens of today are more consistent making the surface not necessarily more easy, but certainly more predictable.  

 

 

 

Yes their skills were tuned to the crappy surfaces, but their scrambling percentage was still not as good because it couldn't be.  You just can't chip as close or make as many putts on slow, bumpy greens.  The uncertainty in the surface was too great despite their skills.

[smashdn]

19 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

But, along those lines, wouldn't you say playing on inconsistent 7/8 bumpy greens with spike marks requires a special set of skills? 

 

The greens of today are more consistent making the surface not necessarily more easy, but certainly more predictable.  

 

 

 

There were some "stabby" putting strokes back in the day.  You can be smooth today.  You actually had to "strike" the ball BITD to get it moving, not just nudge it along the correct line.

[freowho]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

You left out player improvement beyond fitness.  We romanticize the ability of players past and think the modern player cannot be better. I recently saw an interview with Claude Harmon III who’s stated that it would be a massive failure for instructors if the players were not better today. Every generation should be better as they learn what worked, what did not, and how to improve. Pair that with the additional tools available today with video, radar, and various swing measurements that can be made why would players not be better?
 

if you have not seen it I encourage everyone to watch the Chris Como Swing Expedition show from Monday. BDC is on a quest to get better and more consistent and is looking at body mechanics with Como in ways I have never heard discussed in golf instruction. And I have been around the game as a player and student of instruction for about 50 years. The two of them are going beyond building a repeatable swing to finding new ways to do so. For instance, and I am certainly not an expert so bear with my mistakes in describing what they are doing....BDC is working with getting his arms in a position where he cannot miss it left. Not just building a swing that avoided it but having him lead arm, for example, internally rotated throughout the swing so that the club face cannot close.  Yes it creates a somewhat funky looking swing compared to what we all have known and loved but it is difficult to deny its effectiveness.

 Few players, if any, are willing to put themselves out there the way this guy does. He is on a relentless mission to improve and will do whatever it takes with his body and swing to get there.

  I am not a fan but admire his dedication. It goes above and beyond what others do to “improve” their game imo.

Already done. Byron Nelson, Jack Nicklaus and Mickey Wright maintained a high left arm through impact and through to the finish. I don't know why it's not taught more often. Probably the three best golfers in history showed us how to do it a long time ago. With putting Bobby Locke, appropriate name, used to rest his hands against his left thigh as a "locking" system. It's all been done. 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, freowho said:

Already done. Byron Nelson, Jack Nicklaus and Mickey Wright maintained a high left arm through impact and through to the finish. I don't know why it's not taught more often. Probably the three best golfers in history showed us how to do it a long time ago. With putting Bobby Locke, appropriate name, used to rest his hands against his left thigh as a "locking" system. It's all been done. 

Locke’s method would be banned today I believe. Only now it is called anchoring. 
 

I admit to not being that knowledgeable about anatomy. Did the players you mention have a high right arm or were they, like BDC, making sure they arm was actually at the extent of its range of motion so there would be no deviation swing to swing? The high right arm is only part of what he is doing. 

[freowho]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Locke’s method would be banned today I believe. Only now it is called anchoring. 
 

I admit to not being that knowledgeable about anatomy. Did the players you mention have a high right arm or were they, like BDC, making sure they arm was actually at the extent of its range of motion so there would be no deviation swing to swing? The high right arm is only part of what he is doing. 

I think the anchoring ban is only against the torso.

 

I too am not familiar with anatomy but you don't have to be to understand a good golf swing. I don't know, but I don't think the old timers were trying to reach the extent of their range, although that would have happened anyway with aspects of a good swing. Maximising your physical range is an asset in golf but playing to it's "extent" sounds like an injury or bad shot waiting to happen. There has to be some margin because your body doesn't feel or move the same every day or even on every hole on the one day.  

Bryson is talking about not going left. Even though many players, Nicklaus, Woods, DJ, Koepka, have talked about fading the ball to remove the left side it is not about a fade versus a draw, it is about stabilising the face while still being able to swing hard. If you set your feet for a shot and stand up straight, and hold the club out in front of you, and turn your body to face the target the clubface points directly left, for a right hander. If you do the same thing but right side bend at the start, the clubface won't point as far left. If you side bend and work your right arm below your left arm it will point even less left.

You are now less reliant on timing then you were at the start. You have given your swing a bigger margin for error. Mickey Wright doesn't have the classic golf finish but probably has the best swing in history. Side bend and high left arm.

The reason a fade gives such a positive result is because a talented intuitive player will side bend more to fade the ball and stand up more to draw the ball. Jordan Spieth. But you can still draw the ball with the same good action. I've been shot down on this forum before for suggesting Rory's swing is not as good as it was 10 years ago but he now side bends earlier and starts to stand up at impact. We aren't talking a big difference but he relies more on timing now and doesn't compress his approach shots, struggles to control flight and distance. 

Couple of myths.

Draw doesn't go further than a fade. A dipping ball goes further than a ballooning ball. Although common match ups for a hook and slice it's not always the case. Bubba gets his slice to dip. You should be aiming for a flight that maintains it's trajectory until it falls.

Standing up and coming from inside doesn't necessarily give you a positive angle of attack. If anything standing up makes people throw the club down so they can hit the ball, encouraging a negative angle of attack. One thing Bryson does well is stay down through the ball so the clubhead can go up through impact.

Backbending is not a fault. Fred Couples back bends and Arnold Palmer would forward bend but they both maintain a right side bend. Back or forward bend is more to do with a persons natural posture. 

 

 

 

 

These are only my personal views and in no way represent the views of the GolfWrx administrators. ?