Fleetwood TF Proto Irons

[youngun87]

Anyone have any info on these? Also looks like he is putting the Titleist TI3 driver in the bag!

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by youngun87

[RonSwanson]

Looks like a variant of the P-7TW he had been playing. I believe most of the "proto" versions of irons have slight variations to match the players preferred look. The DJ proto had a slightly longer blade length than the standard 730. Things like that. Interesting that TM did that for a non-contracted player. I know they did some one-offs for players they were looking to sign, Akshay comes to mind, but even then I don't believe they got the "my name-proto" treatment.

[bladehunter]

Truthfully could be the TW iron And they just changed the part of the program for the name engraving.  As in he ordered a new set and said “ kind of weird to have another guys name on my irons. Can I get mine on them this time “ ?  Love his bag setup by the way. 

[Golfingfanatic]

There are quite a few guys using P7TWs. Maybe they'll stamp them differently from now on.

[ProjectX]

6 hours ago, RonSwanson said:

Looks like a variant of the P-7TW he had been playing. I believe most of the "proto" versions of irons have slight variations to match the players preferred look. The DJ proto had a slightly longer blade length than the standard 730. Things like that. Interesting that TM did that for a non-contracted player. I know they did some one-offs for players they were looking to sign, Akshay comes to mind, but even then I don't believe they got the "my name-proto" treatment.

I could see this being a likely case. Tommy certainly one of the more popular golfers out there and would fit in well with their stable of former Nike players. Why not go after him.

[mjbaker80]

I read on one of the posts that the changes are just graphics.  Did he go back to 4/5 Srixons after trying the 770?.  

[TheMoneyShot]

They are P7TW irons that TM modified with his initials.

[mjbaker80]

Yup.  That’s what I’m hearing as well.

[Mookieb10]

TF has the absolute best bag, not in the sense that I love every club he plays, but I just love the fact that he plays TM 9-6 and Srixon 5 and 4 irons. 

[EMA1]

Also heard that it’s simply just a modification to the initials. Fairway Jesus! 

Edited September 11, 2020 by erikalfstad

[adl300]

it may be a modification to the initials.  but you can't argue that it's p7tw.  can't you see that they are not even close?  I am always interested to see what tommy is gaming.  he always has the most interesting bag and I think it speaks volume that he made such a quick change to tsi3.  can't wait to get my hands on one!

[driveandputtmachine]

38 minutes ago, adl300 said:

it may be a modification to the initials.  but you can't argue that it's p7tw.  can't you see that they are not even close?  I am always interested to see what tommy is gaming.  he always has the most interesting bag and I think it speaks volume that he made such a quick change to tsi3.  can't wait to get my hands on one!

So, I just pulled up the P7TW from Taylormadegolf.com and they have a back view of the 6 iron.  You can see the back view of the Fleetwood proto 6 iron in one of the pictures.

 

Now, I am not a club designer, and make no bones about having a great eye to see slight discrepancies, but they look pretty identical to me.  I mean the angles of the pictures are slightly off, but I see nothing that says "they are not even close".

[QuigleyDU]

8 hours ago, erikalfstad said:

Also heard that it’s simply just a modification to the initials. Fairway Jesus! 

That is what Johnny Wunder posted. I am sure he got that from Trottie, so probably accurate. He has a fun bag for sure. Plays what works and we should all take notes. You should look at each club in your bag and make sure it fills a purpose and need. Each spot should be individual. There is no need for pride, or ego or having your clubs all "match" in a set. Just find what works for you in that spot.

 

I have had that ideology for a while. Many look at my bag that is not near as varied as his and think it is strange. 

[Valtiel]

20 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

So, I just pulled up the P7TW from Taylormadegolf.com and they have a back view of the 6 iron.  You can see the back view of the Fleetwood proto 6 iron in one of the pictures.

 

Now, I am not a club designer, and make no bones about having a great eye to see slight discrepancies, but they look pretty identical to me.  I mean the angles of the pictures are slightly off, but I see nothing that says "they are not even close".

What we can't tell from the back are things like bounce, offset, topline etc etc. But I agree that "it's not even close" is hyperbolic in this case. 

[Stanks]

On 9/10/2020 at 6:27 AM, RonSwanson said:

Looks like a variant of the P-7TW he had been playing. I believe most of the "proto" versions of irons have slight variations to match the players preferred look. The DJ proto had a slightly longer blade length than the standard 730. Things like that. Interesting that TM did that for a non-contracted player. I know they did some one-offs for players they were looking to sign, Akshay comes to mind, but even then I don't believe they got the "my name-proto" treatment.

I think you’d be surprised for what manufacturers do for uncontracted players. Guys having no business with titleist are regularly seen around their vans, and the vice versa. It’s a big team atmosphere and being helpful will play dividends. 

[driveandputtmachine]

The only thing that screams to me it is not it's own head is the cost of a new forging die set for an iron.  It is a lot more than most people know, and most factories are not going to run a new die for a set of less than 50 iron heads.

 

Now could they have their own big die, that they use and then hand shape/mill to get protos for these guys?  Sure.  Could they 5 axis mill the heads from scratch?  Sure again. 

 

However these things take a pile of work to write the programs(for milling), or to hand shape the heads to change offset, topline, bounce.  Do you do that for Tiger Woods, absolutely.  Because you know that then you can make a die afterwards, and then sell the heads at retail and make a pile of money.  Do you do that for TF who is not a paid endorser, and quite frankly moves no one's needle?  Not likely, especially considering who owns TM, they are looking for return on investment for the folks who invested to buy TM.  Do you do it for DJ and or Rory?  Well there is a Tableau report somewhere that shows TM sales with DJ and or Rory as a staffer and them as not a staffer(which if you aren't willing to baby your big players they will go somewhere else) that says they should be willing to spend X on their contract and X getting them custom clubs to still get a good ROI.

 

Remember after all the milling or handshaping the heads then have to be plated (carbon steel), they have to be tested by the USGA (different markings even require a another USGA test) and the R&A.  

 

More than likely TM has a bunch of TW heads without P7TW on them that they can mill for regular guys.  Sure maybe the DJ proto or Rory proto are blanks and then milled and then plated, but they are at least paid endorsers and move a needle a little bit.

==

I could be wrong on a few things here, but I KNOW the cost of having a forging die made(or what it was back in 2010) I know the cost of writing a 5 axis mill program and the cost of fixtures for the program.  I know these things from having run a golf company (yes small, but I had many industry contacts), and pricing out these items, and the time used to write a 3 axis program, and how much more time is involved in a 5 axis program. I know that KPS is not looking to break even with TM, investment firms have a plan when they buy a company and no one that is in on an investment is gonna risk losing money or breaking even.  There is more data analytics, spreadsheet and tableau usage for determining ROI on everything that is done now and looking back at previous years for comparison than you can shake a stick at.

 

Does TM try and suck up to non contracted players?  Yep, you would have to be an idiot not to, but there is a limit, and that limit is based on ROI, especially for a company like KPS.  Somewhere someone has a spreadsheet or Tableau report that shows what they are willing to do for non contracted players and where the ROI starts to slip away or a total amount they can spend during a year for ROI.  It's probably sprinkled with items like.   Current and historical WR, FED Ex cup points, Ryder and presidents cup appearances, European Order of merit, Driving distance, GIR hit, putting, strokes gained, who knows what all else.  You probably enter their info and it spits out a dollar amount per year.  If you think a Capital investment firm would not hold a company they own to this type of granularity, then you haven't been involved in one.  They track every dollar spent, every hour spent and what it is spent doing and how that type or dollar goes into their bottom line.

Edited September 11, 2020 by driveandputtmachine

[adl300]

1 hour ago, driveandputtmachine said:

So, I just pulled up the P7TW from Taylormadegolf.com and they have a back view of the 6 iron.  You can see the back view of the Fleetwood proto 6 iron in one of the pictures.

 

Now, I am not a club designer, and make no bones about having a great eye to see slight discrepancies, but they look pretty identical to me.  I mean the angles of the pictures are slightly off, but I see nothing that says "they are not even close".

I have to admit.  i am wrong and you are right. I take my comment back.

[EMA1]

2 hours ago, QuigleyDU said:

That is what Johnny Wunder posted. I am sure he got that from Trottie, so probably accurate. He has a fun bag for sure. Plays what works and we should all take notes. You should look at each club in your bag and make sure it fills a purpose and need. Each spot should be individual. There is no need for pride, or ego or having your clubs all "match" in a set. Just find what works for you in that spot.

 

I have had that ideology for a while. Many look at my bag that is not near as varied as his and think it is strange. 

 

He really does have an awesome bag. Absolutely agree we should take notes and not let ego get in the way of deciding what's in our bag, or in my case OCD! 

[gioguy21]

can't believe no one is talking about the fact that he has a srixon (appears to be a 785) 4 iron in the bag...

[JDIL]

GAPR sighting

[MakersMarsh3]

1 hour ago, gioguy21 said:

can't believe no one is talking about the fact that he has a srixon (appears to be a 785) 4 iron in the bag...

Had them in the bad for atleast a couple years I believe

4 and 5 iron

Recently tested the new 770s but he’s back to these 

[tgoodspe1991]

It's probably just an initial change like people said, but it could be heads without the tungsten weight in them too. Fleetwood played the standard VR Pro blades before which, as far as I know, the retail ones didn't have the tungsten behind the sweet spot like Tiger likes. Maybe Fleetwood wanted the same looks as the VR Pro with the P7TW, but wanted the softer feel, so TM made him the "TF PROTO" version. I do know that all the staff guys that played P730 with their own versions like DJ, Rory, Rose, etc. all those heads were actually different from one another. For instance, DJ's are more like the new P7MB with a thinner top line, less offset, and longer blade length. 

[phizzy30]

On 9/11/2020 at 6:39 AM, QuigleyDU said:

That is what Johnny Wunder posted. I am sure he got that from Trottie, so probably accurate. He has a fun bag for sure. Plays what works and we should all take notes. You should look at each club in your bag and make sure it fills a purpose and need. Each spot should be individual. There is no need for pride, or ego or having your clubs all "match" in a set. Just find what works for you in that spot.

 

I have had that ideology for a while. Many look at my bag that is not near as varied as his and think it is strange. 

Amen to that.  I love TF's bag.  Seems like each club is picked to serve a purpose as he has a unique mixed bag.  I will admit, I have a certain amount of loyalty to TM especially when it comes to their woods, but when I test clubs, I always look at the numbers first then things like aesthetics second.  I love the way the TSi line looks.  It's too bad I didn't have access to testing those at the time I was testing the SIM line.  Could've been interesting to say the least. 

[QuigleyDU]

12 hours ago, tgoodspe1991 said:

It's probably just an initial change like people said, but it could be heads without the tungsten weight in them too. Fleetwood played the standard VR Pro blades before which, as far as I know, the retail ones didn't have the tungsten behind the sweet spot like Tiger likes. Maybe Fleetwood wanted the same looks as the VR Pro with the P7TW, but wanted the softer feel, so TM made him the "TF PROTO" version. I do know that all the staff guys that played P730 with their own versions like DJ, Rory, Rose, etc. all those heads were actually different from one another. For instance, DJ's are more like the new P7MB with a thinner top line, less offset, and longer blade length. 

they are the exact same except for the name on them.