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Proof Of Handicap To Play The Back Tees?


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What for?  People should be able to play whatever tees they want to play as long as they can play at the pace the course deems appropriate. I’d rather follow a 35 playing the tips at Torrey Pines in 4

Forgive me, but I can't help myself. It's e.g., not "ie" [sic].

I remember going to Royal St. Georges and wondering if they'd let me play the tips. (I was sure they wouldn't.) When I checked in the desk clerk said to me (without my asking), "There aren't many play

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10 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Our course took out the back tee markers, substituted another set of tees one set up from white.

If you don't want people to play from the "tips", don't put the markers out.

And don't mow the boxes

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8 hours ago, gentles said:

Not sure where you went to school but let's agree to disagree on what proper grammar (or even capitalisation) is 

Where I went to school, we were taught to capitalize all words in a title, with only a couple minor exceptions. Similar to the Subject line in a memo - capitalize most all of the words (e.g., “This Memo is About Capitalization”).

 

But we can agree to disagree, because perhaps others’ learned differently.

Edited by ebk
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It's not enforceable, plus telling people which tees they can play WILL have consequences for the course; golfers won't return to the course and will say bad things about the course.   Most people that shouldn't play the back tees know it and don't.  Course there are those few that want to or think they should till they get a taste of the abuse.  Unless they have the game, I see very few people these days venturing to the back tees or anything much over 6500yds. 

 

Kinda reminds me of going to a club fitter and have him ask me my age (55ish) I told him and he, using his vast wiz-bang old man judgment wanted to fit me into a "R" shafts, never asked me my index or golf goals, etc.  I said are you joking, he was serious.  I say bye, bye.  Even at 70, I don't play "R" shafts and still score in the low-mid 70's from big kid tees.  And I seldom say much in the way of good about fitters, especially old far**. 

 

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On 9/15/2020 at 7:25 AM, EmperorPenguin said:

I remember that the Old Course requires a handicap of 24 or better just to play.  Why not apply a similar requirement, say, a proof of handicap of 5 or better to play the back tees?  If the course is one that hosted a major championship and has a set of US Open tees, why not require a proof of zero or better to play the same tee Rory plays?  By this I specifically mean producing a handicap card and showing it to the pro when checking in the shop.

This idea goes no where. The example of the Old Course is great a one. If any place could manage to enforce a minimum handicap it would  the Old Course, but it is sadly only lip service even there. Plenty of hacks show up and play the course every time I have been there. The caddies I have had there, tell me that people find ways around it all the time and have entire busloads of people who have no real handicap and could not break 110.

 

Frankly if the idea is to speed up play - than focus on that. Time clocks can be very effective as can effective marshalling. 

 

Edited by 2bGood
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10 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Titles of books and articles are supposed to be capitalized. Though not all words are supposed to be capitalized. Prepositions, articles and conjunctions are not unless they are the first word of the title, ie Of Mice and Men and Lord of the Ring

 

Forgive me, but I can't help myself. It's e.g., not "ie" [sic].

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8 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

When I was there, I specifically remember 24 for the men, and 36 for ladies when playing the Old Course.  Do transgender players have a maximum of 30?

 

When we played, we did not have to check in, since we booked our times through an authorized provider (The Experience St. Andrews), but prior to our arrival we had to provide them our GHIN numbers and current indexes, so maybe they did the validation for us before we got there.

 

I'm sure it was, but 36 is now the number, just keeping things accurate for anyone who may read it.  I assume they changed it, and maybe for 2020, to get more $, who knows.

 

The transgender comment is inappropriate.

 

We were checked at the starter's hut and we provided the printouts and away we went.  

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8 hours ago, davep043 said:

I believe it was the same limit when I played there in 2011 and 2012, however the St Andrews website now says the limit is 36 for both men and women.  Each time I played we had made our bookings through the Advance Reservation System.  Each time the starter actually did check our Handicap Cards.  Each time I had made sure to obtain cards for each of our players before leaving home, I didn't want someone's forgetfulness to have him denied the chance to play.  I have no idea whether anyone would have been rejected, but I wasn't going to take the chance.

 

Yep - no point having what turned out to be the greatest golfing experience of my life doomed with issues at the first tee.  I had everyone's printed out in a ziplock in my bag.  Wasn't relying on phones, either. My youngest daughter had no established handicap and played The New Course the day before we played The Old Course. Since my dad couldn't make it we had room in our foursome for The Old Course --- she was not allowed to fill in (but they were darn polite about it!).

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On 9/16/2020 at 4:47 PM, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Yep - no point having what turned out to be the greatest golfing experience of my life doomed with issues at the first tee.  I had everyone's printed out in a ziplock in my bag.  Wasn't relying on phones, either. My youngest daughter had no established handicap and played The New Course the day before we played The Old Course. Since my dad couldn't make it we had room in our foursome for The Old Course --- she was not allowed to fill in (but they were darn polite about it!).

You are a good guy and honest. The first time I played the OC, I had my index printed out and letter from my head professional (not taking any chances). They looked at them, but any one with half a clue could have forged their own as it did not go further than a fast glance. I have 'heard' tour operators assist in the correct documentation. 

 

More funny is one of my buddies booked a trip there year ago and was just barely a low enough handicap to play when he booked (I seem tor recall it was 18 back then?). Of course as the trip came close his handicap went up and he was no longer eligible to play.We were giving him 20 footers for a month before he left to help him get back down?. When he got back he was like an ATM in money games. 

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8 hours ago, 2bGood said:

You are a good guy and honest. The first time I played the OC, I had my index printed out and letter from my head professional (not taking any chances). They looked at them, but any one with half a clue could have forged their own as it did not go further than a fast glance. I have 'heard' tour operators assist in the correct documentation. 

 

More funny is one of my buddies booked a trip there year ago and was just barely a low enough handicap to play when he booked (I seem tor recall it was 18 back then?). Of course as the trip came close his handicap went up and he was no longer eligible to play.We were giving him 20 footers for a month before he left to help him get back down?. When he got back he was like an ATM in money games. 


LOL, that’s what friends are for! 
 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The OP's idea is a great one. Any course can say that the back tees are for single-digit or scratch golfers only. If someone ignores, the other golfers or the ranger can approach them and make things uncomfortable. 

It is amazing to me how many times people who have no business playing back tees still do so. Must be a macho thing or something, but all it does is disrespectfully delay things and make the rounds longer for everyone. And skill, not length, should be the determinant for playing back tees. A shorter distance but more skilled player will be in the fairways more often, not waste time looking for lost balls, and will more often likely be longer than when the bigger distance person slices or hooks it more than half the time.

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I've got a funny relationship with the back tees. Since I play the majority of rounds as a single, I typically get paired with strangers. Usually, I don't feel comfortable playing the tips if I'm the only one doing so. In those cases, I usually play a shorter set so I "fit in" better with the group.

 

If there are others in the group playing from the tips, and I feel my game is suited to do so for that course, that's when I join in. 

 

The exception is If it's a course I know really well, then I'm OK with being the lone player in a foursome hitting from the tips.

 

I know I "should" feel comfortable playing whatever tees suits my game, but unless I'm prepping for competition (rare these days), I'm happy mixing it up across different tee boxes.  The variety is good for my game, ultimately.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Lark said:

The OP's idea is a great one. Any course can say that the back tees are for single-digit or scratch golfers only. If someone ignores, the other golfers or the ranger can approach them and make things uncomfortable. 

It is amazing to me how many times people who have no business playing back tees still do so. Must be a macho thing or something, but all it does is disrespectfully delay things and make the rounds longer for everyone. And skill, not length, should be the determinant for playing back tees. A shorter distance but more skilled player will be in the fairways more often, not waste time looking for lost balls, and will more often likely be longer than when the bigger distance person slices or hooks it more than half the time.

You see it very often: guys who play the back tees just because they can hit the ball far with the driver with an accuracy of 25%.  As Harvey Penick famously said, "The woods are full of long hitters."

 

Playing the back tees requires using longer clubs.  The margin for error is smaller with the longer clubs, so a higher level of skill is needed to play them, hence the suggestion of proof of handicap to play the back tees.  Is there a fallacy in this logic?

 

Corey Pavin are Loren Roberts are excellent examples of short knockers who can play the back tees.  Their short tee shots often leave them long irons or even fairway woods to the green, yet they have those shots.  Even though their shots to the green may not be as accurate as Jon Rahm, since the latter is using a wedge to the green, the former has the short-game skills to recover and compete.  Corey in his prime often chipped in from off the green.

 

Returning to our brash, delusional gorillas: I see with regularity huge drives with the driver (accuracy most likely under 50%), but their iron play is nowhere near as good, they cannot use long irons when needed, their chipping sucks, they don't know how to hit bunker shots, and their putting is mediocre at best.

 

Overall skill is essential to play the back tees, but the argument of As long as they can keep up and not hold up the course is valid only if (1) they are held strictly to that, (2) they pick up if continuing play would slow down the group for any amount of time, and (3) they do not gouge deep divots pointing the wrong way on the immaculate tee boxes on the 4's and 5's.

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35 minutes ago, Twism86 said:

I dont maintain an official HC, if I show up to a course of which I have already given them my hard earned cash, and they ask for proof to play a certain tee they will likely regret ever doing so! How would courses or the Old Course handle players with a HC? 

 

Well it's their course, their rules? How do they know if you're a 30 sideways hitting handicap and are going to slow down the whole field playing from the tips?

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18 hours ago, Twism86 said:

I dont maintain an official HC, if I show up to a course of which I have already given them my hard earned cash, and they ask for proof to play a certain tee they will likely regret ever doing so! How would courses or the Old Course handle players with a HC? 

I suppose if you arrive with a mountain of cash they may grant an exception, as everyone has a price.  You must pay substantially more than what everyone else pays.  If money talks, you must pay far more than what everyone else pays.  Who knows what the amount would suffice to make the Links Trust bend that rule for you?

Edited by EmperorPenguin
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18 hours ago, Twism86 said:

I dont maintain an official HC, if I show up to a course of which I have already given them my hard earned cash, and they ask for proof to play a certain tee they will likely regret ever doing so! How would courses or the Old Course handle players without a HC? 

I believe the old course for example explicitly tells you when you book that you must have a handicap card to show upon arrival, or you forfeit your time.

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20 hours ago, Twism86 said:

I dont maintain an official HC, if I show up to a course of which I have already given them my hard earned cash, and they ask for proof to play a certain tee they will likely regret ever doing so! How would courses or the Old Course handle players without a HC? 

To enter the Ballot for the Old Course:

Quote

To enter the ballot there must be at least two players and all names, Home Clubs and handicaps will be required.

When i was there in 2011 and 2012, we got tee times through the Advanced Reservation Systems, and had to provide home club and handicap information in the initial application.  When we were ready to play, the starter asked to see the handicap cards for all players, even though we had paid in advance.  I don't know what they would have done if we didn't have proof of handicap, we weren't foolish enough to take that chance.

 

"they will likely regret??"  I understand internet bravery, but just what would you do?  

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22 hours ago, Twism86 said:

I dont maintain an official HC, if I show up to a course of which I have already given them my hard earned cash, and they ask for proof to play a certain tee they will likely regret ever doing so! How would courses or the Old Course handle players without a HC? 

 

Pretty sure that the Old Course has a list of folks waiting to play standing either outside the fence or at the closest pub.  My guess is they refund your money and let a more respectful group on the first tee.   They are not short on customers.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Pretty sure that the Old Course has a list of folks waiting to play standing either outside the fence or at the closest pub.  My guess is they refund your money and let a more respectful group on the first tee.   They are not short on customers.

 

How am I disrespectful? Please list examples from when you have met me or golfed with me. Ill wait..... 

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I don't care how bad you are, or which tees you play from, as long as I don't have to "duck and cover" if you play the tips, and you keep pace. The latter is always harder when bad golf and long tees are combined.

 

I played the tips a lot paired with randoms. BUT....my game was in good shape and it was appropriate at the time. If I was a little wild with a bad swing spell, I didn't want to endanger anyone and moved up for a few rounds. LOL!

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1 minute ago, Twism86 said:

How am I disrespectful? Please list examples from when you have met me or golfed with me. Ill wait..... 

 

"They will likely regret ever doing so" does not really paint a good picture.  If this plays out at the Old Course, pretty sure every other group will be considered more respectful.

 

Perhaps you used a poor choice of words, and the request as to what exactly that means has gone unanswered, but a phrase such as that doesn't exactly give you a good platform to then claim you are respectful.

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22 hours ago, Twism86 said:

I dont maintain an official HC, if I show up to a course of which I have already given them my hard earned cash, and they ask for proof to play a certain tee they will likely regret ever doing so! How would courses or the Old Course handle players without a HC? 

I believe they handle it by suggesting you play one of the other courses in the area, ones which do not require a handicap. 

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4 minutes ago, Bluefan75 said:

 

"They will likely regret ever doing so" does not really paint a good picture.  If this plays out at the Old Course, pretty sure every other group will be considered more respectful.

 

Perhaps you used a poor choice of words, and the request as to what exactly that means has gone unanswered, but a phrase such as that doesn't exactly give you a good platform to then claim you are respectful.

I just meant that they would get an earful from me. That comment wasnt in regards to the Old Course. It was in regard to if I showed up to a course, paid my fee and went to play the tips and was then asked for proof of HC before teeing off. I didnt mean I would cause damage, assault anyone, etc. 

 

As for the Old Course, I didnt know they had that rule and as I will likely never play there, it doesnt apply to me anyways. 

Edited by Twism86
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27 minutes ago, Twism86 said:

I just meant that they would get an earful from me. That comment wasnt in regards to the Old Course. It was in regard to if I showed up to a course, paid my fee and went to play the tips and was then asked for proof of HC before teeing off. I didnt mean I would cause damage, assault anyone, etc. 

 

As for the Old Course, I didnt know they had that rule and as I will likely never play there, it doesnt apply to me anyways. 

 

Well certainly I would hope the course advises you prior to even paying they want proof of handicap.  I would be a bit miffed as well, although having my phone it wouldn't be too hard to show.

 

Giving an earful regarding an undisclosed policy does sound a lot better than "they will regret it."  The optics weren't so good.

 

It is tough though.  I had a starter give me a bit of lip about going to the back tees when I was visiting one of my wife's sisters' family.  My BIL only plays occasionally, and same with his buddy, so they were up a couple tees from me.  Starter must have assumed I was the same.  I just glared at him after drilling it down the fairway.   BUt I've also had guys come back to the tips and it wasn't good.....

 

The old course has a very high HC limit but they do want to know you have one.  It's also a way to cut out a number of people who would try to play otherwise.

Edited by Bluefan75
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On 9/15/2020 at 9:54 AM, golfandfishing said:

What for?  People should be able to play whatever tees they want to play as long as they can play at the pace the course deems appropriate. I’d rather follow a 35 playing the tips at Torrey Pines in 4 hours than a scratch playing from 5,800 in 5 hours. Slow players play slow no matter where they play from, vice versa for normal and fast players. 

Played Torrey Pines with 3 mini Tour Pros (one a College All American from TP HS) a few years back. Don't think there were even markers at the Tips, but they got permission from 1st tee employee to play the Tips and he called it in over the radio. When we get to 18, they walk back to the Tips while I tee off from the box that was playing ~6,600. Ranger drives up next to me and yells at them to get off the Tips saying it is only for Pros. Think he might of said PGA Tour pros only after I told him they were on the Canadian Tour.

 

FWIW, no way do four 35 caps play the Tips in 4 hours at TP unless they have fast carts and pick up a lot.

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