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Flat shoulder turn with driver


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Hey guys,

 

Watching all the videos of pros at winged foot has me analyzing my swing.

 

I can make a practice driver swing with steeper shoulders going back, but once I set up to the ball it feels awkward and almost impossible to make an athletic pass at the ball while having my shoulders tilted that much. Could this be posture related?

 

Anyone have any tips?

 

 

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Hips need to be steep too.  Get that left knee working out toward the toes.   Really out to the toes.   Side bend becomes much easier as a result among other benefits.  Work the right butt cheek back toward the target and allow the right knee to lose a little flex.

 

Like this guy

 

 

Enjoy every sandwich

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@esp13 are those vids your natural swing or swings with steeper shoulders? Because it actually looks pretty good!

 

Anyway, the longer the club the flatter the plane and generally the pros are using shorter shafts in their driver than most of us are so their driver swing shoulders tend to be a little steeper than if they were using a shaft an inch or more longer. I've also been working on the same issue with my swing and one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had getting my swing steeper is feeling more left side bend/tilt. Eric Cogorno has great video about this out now. The feel for me at least has been revolutionary.

 

 

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I struggle with a flat shoulder turn sometimes as well....what I always go back to...even with driver....setup without a club and let your arms hang...take your left fingers and curl them under so the tips touch your leg and swing back letting your right arm move back and keep your left hand in place...that's the feel your want.  For me, i feel a flexion/crunch in my left oblique at the top and that's the feeling i try to replicate each time...it will feel very very odd with driver and less so the shorter club you use.  

Driver: Callaway Epic 9* w/ Graphite Design Tour AD M9003
FWY: Taylormade Rocketballz Tp 14.5*
Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 18*
Irons: Srixon Z765 3-5 iron, z965 6-PW, Project X
54*: Titleist SM6 S grind black finish
58*: Cleveland CG14 1 dot
Putter: Taylormade Daytona Rossa with agsi.

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On 9/16/2020 at 8:43 PM, glk said:

Hips need to be steep too.  Get that left knee working out toward the toes.   Really out to the toes.   Side bend becomes much easier as a result among other benefits.  Work the right butt cheek back toward the target and allow the right knee to lose a little flex.

 

Like this guy

 

 

I think I struggle with my left knee movement because my left ankle is messed up and doesn't dorsi-flex well. Trying to add heel lift, seems promising! Thank you

 

 

 

22 hours ago, RobertBaron said:

@esp13 are those vids your natural swing or swings with steeper shoulders? Because it actually looks pretty good!

 

Anyway, the longer the club the flatter the plane and generally the pros are using shorter shafts in their driver than most of us are so their driver swing shoulders tend to be a little steeper than if they were using a shaft an inch or more longer. I've also been working on the same issue with my swing and one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had getting my swing steeper is feeling more left side bend/tilt. Eric Cogorno has great video about this out now. The feel for me at least has been revolutionary.

 

 

 

Great video, thank you!

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6 hours ago, footmashie said:

Hands a little closer to you with some wrist set, butt out behind heels a little more, then keep flexion in left glute area to top and back to just before strike.  

I've always seen people suggest the hands needing to be further with driver because it needs more room to come through. I feel like if I stand closer I won't be able to keep my arms straight. Not sure!

 

6 hours ago, ferrispgm said:

I struggle with a flat shoulder turn sometimes as well....what I always go back to...even with driver....setup without a club and let your arms hang...take your left fingers and curl them under so the tips touch your leg and swing back letting your right arm move back and keep your left hand in place...that's the feel your want.  For me, i feel a flexion/crunch in my left oblique at the top and that's the feeling i try to replicate each time...it will feel very very odd with driver and less so the shorter club you use.  

so my left fingers are touching my left leg and going down towards my knee as i take it back? Is that the feel?

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15 hours ago, esp13 said:

I've always seen people suggest the hands needing to be further with driver because it needs more room to come through. I feel like if I stand closer I won't be able to keep my arms straight. Not sure!

 

-  no need to add a lead foot effort, not necessary at all


-  plenty of room either way- hands in, or hands out, if you're centering your tilts,  but why     
    expand something that will expand on its own is a real style question, but arguably easier to execute because arms stay more connected


-   forget you ever heard about straight, or straighter, arms until after impact

 

The first move back with the club head is actually down into the ground, it's down to go up.  But since the ground is in the way why doesn't the club dive mass first into the ground.   The torso and tilts take care of that and send it low and back,that's why.    That's where low and slow came from, but the low is actually a by-product of down.


Try centering,  use suggested set up, turn shoulders within the confines of the insides of your feet.  You'll be rotated and tilted over your center of gravity if you do.

 

 

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18 hours ago, esp13 said:

Update from today. Added heel lift and feeling the left shoulder going down. Looks better I think, contact was off, but I assume I need more practice and reps.

 

 

Point of knee flex is to turn hips on angle supporting the side bend that gets shouders on similar angle.    Hard to side bend with a flatish hip turn and hard on back too.

left knee flex lowers left side making it easier to get a 90* angle turn.    Driver swings do tend to be flater than irons swings but still have good angles.    

 

Raising the heel looks like it is raising the hip so it is kinda defeating the purpose.    Me, I'd do the best I could and work on ankle mobility.     having the hips on an angle enables a good "downhill" pressure move in transition and helps to  keep left side bend (and even increase it a bit) in the transition.    You don't appear to be extending your hips in the backswing either.

 

 your real issue, that this lack of angles causes,  is that you don't keep the left shoulder low in transition and drop the right immediately.

 

Compare your shoulders to Koepka (just picked him but could be any good swing) who keeps his left shoulder down through transition1582549785_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_05_41PM.png.f2af0fb49989ac74eef4c4181d75c651.png1075151154_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_05_51PM.png.1e6830f5168d554ad987d46e460c4ecb.png.    

 

 

Even more obvious at p6

1571221676_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_08_45PM.png.f942b0eb6fc015e660bd8928a3ae8df1.png1799294313_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_08_56PM.png.43d3570bbbcb64af1c5c87f82ec9ace8.png

 

A good thread on this 

Might want to see Monte’s NTC video - works on getting arms down early in transition, among other things, versus dropping the right shoulder to do so.

Edited by glk

Enjoy every sandwich

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18 hours ago, esp13 said:

I've always seen people suggest the hands needing to be further with driver because it needs more room to come through. I feel like if I stand closer I won't be able to keep my arms straight. Not sure!

 

so my left fingers are touching my left leg and going down towards my knee as i take it back? Is that the feel?

from address with your arms hanging if you curl your fingers under you should be touching just above the knee or bottom of your quad depending on setup...they shouldn't move down when you swing back..just keep them there....at the top you should feel your chest pointing behind the ball and and your left obligue flexed like you are doing a side bend.

Driver: Callaway Epic 9* w/ Graphite Design Tour AD M9003
FWY: Taylormade Rocketballz Tp 14.5*
Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 18*
Irons: Srixon Z765 3-5 iron, z965 6-PW, Project X
54*: Titleist SM6 S grind black finish
58*: Cleveland CG14 1 dot
Putter: Taylormade Daytona Rossa with agsi.

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10 hours ago, glk said:

Point of knee flex is to turn hips on angle supporting the side bend that gets shouders on similar angle.    Hard to side bend with a flatish hip turn and hard on back too.

left knee flex lowers left side making it easier to get a 90* angle turn.    Driver swings do tend to be flater than irons swings but still have good angles.    

 

Raising the heel looks like it is raising the hip so it is kinda defeating the purpose.    Me, I'd do the best I could and work on ankle mobility.     having the hips on an angle enables a good "downhill" pressure move in transition and helps to  keep left side bend (and even increase it a bit) in the transition.    You don't appear to be extending your hips in the backswing either.

 

 your real issue, that this lack of angles causes,  is that you don't keep the left shoulder low in transition and drop the right immediately.

 

Compare your shoulders to Koepka (just picked him but could be any good swing) who keeps his left shoulder down through transition1582549785_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_05_41PM.png.f2af0fb49989ac74eef4c4181d75c651.png1075151154_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_05_51PM.png.1e6830f5168d554ad987d46e460c4ecb.png.    

 

 

Even more obvious at p6

1571221676_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_08_45PM.png.f942b0eb6fc015e660bd8928a3ae8df1.png1799294313_ScreenShot2020-09-18at2_08_56PM.png.43d3570bbbcb64af1c5c87f82ec9ace8.png

 

A good thread on this 

Might want to see Monte’s NTC video - works on getting arms down early in transition, among other things, versus dropping the right shoulder to do so.

Thanks for that. With driver I have a tough time feeling the left shoulder staying low in transition since I'm tilted away from the target. I feel like I'm going to put the club into the ground. Maybe I need to work on extending more through impact?

 

I have Monte's ntc vid. It's great stuff, I just need to keep working on it.

 

Also, I can totally see what you mean about the left heel just raising my left hip. Going to work on that left ankle movement a lot.

Edited by esp13
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