Plastic bottle caps used as a tee

[storm]

If i design a tee that looks like a bottle cap and market it as a tee does it count?

[Colin L]

My understanding has been that something designed to be something  has to have been fashioned with the intention of fulfilling the function of being that something.  The bottle cap has been designed to go on top of a bottle not underneath a golf ball.  The legitimate use of sand is not relevant.  It's natural, not an object and has an honourable history of use in teeing up a ball.  I remember sand boxes on tees provided for that very purpose..

.

[rogolf]

10 minutes ago, Colin L said:

My understanding has been that something designed to be something  has to have been fashioned with the intention of fulfilling the function of being that something.  The bottle cap has been designed to go on top of a bottle not underneath a golf ball.  The legitimate use of sand is not relevant.  It's natural, not an object and has an honourable history of use in teeing up a ball.  I remember sand boxes on tees provided for that very purpose..

.

As do I, but, at the time, I had no idea what they were for!

[antip]

2 hours ago, rogolf said:

As do I, but, at the time, I had no idea what they were for!

And I always thought they were for filling in divots.

[oikos1]

12 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

The fact that those collected cone-like rubber (winter) tees are endorsed in the Equipment Rules for "difficult turf conditions" also seems to support the idea that a bottle cap is fine.

 

1. Tees (Rule 6.2)

A tee is a device designed to raise the ball off the ground. A tee must not:

• be longer than 4 inches (101.6 mm);

• be designed or manufactured in such a way that it could indicate line of play;

• unduly influence the movement of the ball; or

• otherwise assist the player in making a stroke or in his play.

Note: As an exception for difficult turf conditions, tees tethered together or to an anchor may be used during the round provided that the player does not align the tees or tether in such a way that could indicate line of play or otherwise assist the player in making a stroke.

How is this not the answer?  Plain as day.

[2bGood]

15 hours ago, Colin L said:

My understanding has been that something designed to be something  has to have been fashioned with the intention of fulfilling the function of being that something.  The bottle cap has been designed to go on top of a bottle not underneath a golf ball.  The legitimate use of sand is not relevant.  It's natural, not an object and has an honourable history of use in teeing up a ball.  I remember sand boxes on tees provided for that very purpose..

.

 Just because something is designed for one thing, does not mean it can not be designed or re-designed for something else. Viagra was 'designed' as heart medication but apparently is used for something else. 

 

I do have to say this thread is way more interesting than I expected, as I was certain that the answer to the OP's question was obvious, but lots of good arguments came forward that called the answer into question. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by 2bGood

[antip]

The general question that could be usefully put over the phone (for someone conveniently located): If ANY artificial object not designed to be a tee is used by a player to tee a ball for a stroke made from the teeing area, is the player penalised for use of a non-conforming tee?

[sui generis]

6 hours ago, antip said:

The general question that could be usefully put over the phone (for someone conveniently located): If ANY artificial object not designed to be a tee is used by a player to tee a ball for a stroke made from the teeing area, is the player penalised for use of a non-conforming tee?

 

It won't be me, antip, they all know me. ? Plus most are at Winged Foot this week.

[HatsForBats]

13 hours ago, storm said:

If i design a tee that looks like a bottle cap and market it as a tee does it count?

 

I don't think you would need to market it or even manufacture it. It only says designed so that would seem to indicate you could modify (design) something that's original intent was not to be a tee but is re-designed to be a tee.

 

 I agree with Sawgrass on this. Removing the lower plastic ring alters the original design.

Quote

@Sawgrass said:

The plastic bottle caps I know of come attached to a lower plastic ring which stays in place below the top edge of the bottle. When you break the cap off the top of a bottle to use it as a tee, I submit that you have purposefully “manufactured” a tee.

 

I think what is maybe lost in this discussion is why would it need to be prohibited? What is the perceived advantage to someone using a bottle cap? The fact that it is less likely to fall off the tee when teeing up?

 

[antip]

44 minutes ago, HatsForBats said:

 

I don't think you would need to market it or even manufacture it. It only says designed so that would seem to indicate you could modify (design) something that's original intent was not to be a tee but is re-designed to be a tee.

 

 I agree with Sawgrass on this. Removing the lower plastic ring alters the original design.

 

I think what is maybe lost in this discussion is why would it need to be prohibited? What is the perceived advantage to someone using a bottle cap? The fact that it is less likely to fall off the tee when teeing up?

 

Indeed, why would it need to be prohibited? The Equipment Rule noted above makes clear what a tee can't do, so provided those issues are not breached why should there be any issue?

But there will be an official answer and I suspect it will ban any artificial object not designed to be a tee unless there is an identifiable modification.

The photo below is the sort of thing - the little clear transparent bit on top - that would work on the 'cave rock' teeing areas I identified above.

PS I have no relationship with the commercial entity lurking under the plastic top that I wanted a photo of.

 

[Ri_Redneck]

Since it says "irregularities in the teeing ground" do they have to already exist or can we bump up a bit of turf? I have seen pros do this forever, but never seen a penalty called for it.

 

BT

[sui generis]

4 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Since it says "irregularities in the teeing ground" do they have to already exist or can we bump up a bit of turf? I have seen pros do this forever, but never seen a penalty called for it.

 

BT

 

R6.2b says that you may, "Alter the surface of the ground in the teeing area (such as by making an indentation with a club or foot)"

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=6&subrulenum=2

[Colin L]

1 hour ago, sui generis said:

 

R6.2b says that you may, "Alter the surface of the ground in the teeing area (such as by making an indentation with a club or foot)"

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=6&subrulenum=2

By coincidence, I've just watched Justin Thomas  hacking up a bit of turf to tee his ball on for a hybrid shot.  My father always dunted the turf up with the toe of his club for iron shots off the tee.  Didn't do him any harm -  he was a scratch player. 

[LeoLeo99]

3 minutes ago, Colin L said:

By coincidence, I've just watched Justin Thomas  hacking up a bit of turf to tee his ball on for a hybrid shot.  My father always dunted the turf up with the toe of his club for iron shots off the tee.  Didn't do him any harm -  he was a scratch player. 

 

Not this again.  Laura Davies had a pretty good career.  LOL.  

[Hawkeye77]

On 9/17/2020 at 10:46 AM, greenman said:

Are sticks natural Mr Bean?

Are Bottle tops natural Mr Bean?

 

Bottle tops may be NORMAL for an alcoholic ??? but they are not NATURAL as far as the rules are concerned.??

 

Although Bean pretty much asks for it, he doesn't deserve this drivel. 

 

Think pop and water bottles doofus. And you certainly don't have to be an alcoholic to enjoy a bottle of beer or anything else. 

 

Bad enough to not even come close on the rules you are making up, but this stuff?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

On 9/17/2020 at 2:45 PM, Sawgrass said:

I presume we all know/accept that splitting a log transforms the log, a loose impediment, into a manufactured obstruction.

 

The plastic bottle caps I know of come attached to a lower plastic ring which stays in place below the top edge of the bottle. When you break the cap off the top of a bottle to use it as a tee, I submit that you have purposefully “manufactured” a tee.

Wait a minute sawgrass!  Tee's don't come from tee trees? ?

[sui generis]

8 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Wait a minute sawgrass!  Tee's don't come from tee trees? ?

 

What's more, if the player uses a tee to repair a ball mark it is no longer a tee but forever becomes a ball mark repair tool and cannot be used otherwise. ?

[Colin L]

47 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

What's more, if the player uses a tee to repair a ball mark it is no longer a tee but forever becomes a ball mark repair tool and cannot be used otherwise. ?

Scottish tees are obviously superior, being capable of multi-tasking.

[antip]

6 minutes ago, Colin L said:

Scottish tees are obviously superior, being capable of multi-tasking.

Like the Scottish weather?

[Sawgrass]

Okay, an email has been sent to Liberty Corner, New Jersey, in the event that the USGA staff ever returns from Mamaroneck, New York:

 

 

 

 

A couple of questions about the legal use of a tee, please.  (I’ve pasted the segment of the Equipment Rules to which I’m referring below for your convenience.)

 

A teeing ground is established on frozen soil or rock, and it’s difficult for a player to get a normal tee in the ground.  He/she wishes to use something else, and has modified several plastic bottle caps to use as tees.  The modification consists of using sand paper to smooth off the little plastic nubs left on the cap when the cap was “broken” (unscrewed) off the top of the bottle (as it leaves the previously-attached circular ring beneath the threads on the top of the bottle.

 

The below rule tells us that a tee is a device “designed” to raise the ball off the ground.  I’m unsure whether that opening statement is actually meant to be a restriction, or is simply informational — all of which leads me to the following questions:

 

1) could a player simply unscrew a bottle cap and use it as a tee (presuming it doesn’t fail the four bullet point restrictions below)?

2) if not, does sanding off the edge of the cap to use it as a tee make the cap now “re-designed” to use as a tee — and therefore make it legal?

3) does simply unscrewing the cap from the bottle, and thereby breaking off the holding ring below it, qualify as a modification all on its own, sufficient to be considered a new and legal “design?"

 

Thanks for your insight, I’d be pleased to contemplate any principle you might offer regarding the above that I could apply to other materials being modified into a tee.

 

 

1. Tees (Rule 6.2)

A tee is a device designed to raise the ball off the ground. A tee must not:

• be longer than 4 inches (101.6 mm);
• be designed or manufactured in such a way that it could indicate line of play;
• unduly influence the movement of the ball; or
• otherwise assist the player in making a stroke or in his play.

Note: As an exception for difficult turf conditions, tees tethered together or to an anchor may be used during the round provided that the player does not align the tees or tether in such a way that could indicate line of play or otherwise assist the player in making a stroke.

 

[platgof]

I going to start saving my bottle caps, who knew! So if I align Pepsi towards the target.......

Edited September 19, 2020 by platgof

[sui generis]

29 minutes ago, platgof said:

I going to start saving my bottle caps, who knew! So if I align Pepsi towards the target.......

 

Next invention will be the Martini Bottle Cap tee. They'll come in a lifetime supply pack of 5.

[Dpavs]

So a question for the naysayer(s). If I have a plastic bottle cap and I bend it just a little and say to myself... wow this would make a great low tee... then have I not designed a tee?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I prefer using this ?

 

 

[LeoLeo99]

[Halebopp]

2 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

 

Obviously designed to be used in Australia and New Zealand.

[llewol007]

You sir have an idea that needs to be branded. Bottle caps should be allowed if they are not. They do exactly and fall into the ruling.

[James the Hogan Fan]

55 minutes ago, Halebopp said:

 

Obviously designed to be used in Australia and New Zealand.

To be fair, I assume if the cap is to be used as a tee, I imagine it would be flipped over instead of trying to balance the ball on the flat. 

[sui generis]

35 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

To be fair, I assume if the cap is to be used as a tee, I imagine it would be flipped over instead of trying to balance the ball on the flat. 

 

Surely (and I'm not calling you Shirley) there's "four more yards" to be gained by the zero friction of the flat spot. 

[Halebopp]

55 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

To be fair, I assume if the cap is to be used as a tee, I imagine it would be flipped over instead of trying to balance the ball on the flat. 

 

Hence the assumption it might work better in the aforementioned countries. ?