Sticker/decal on putter

[Thats_OB]

Would a decal on top of the putter like this be allowed by USGA rules?

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

Hey, where'd you get that?

[Thats_OB]

1 minute ago, HappyGilmoresBoots said:

Hey, where'd you get that?

There are a few versions on Ebay. 

[Dpavs]

I actually had the same question come up in a thread I had posted using that same decal on my spider x. This is what I posted and I still feel it is correct.

 

"I believe it would still be compliant.

The below is an excerpt from the USGA Equipment Rules Final.pdf -

Certain features are permitted to extend into the face of a putter, including alignment features and concavities (or furrows) on the crown (see Section below on Furrows and Runners). However, such features must not have a depth or height greater than 0.25 inches (6.35 mm) when measured against the top line of the face.• Features of any nature that extend ahead of the face are not permitted on any club – see Figure 31. *(note - the decal does not extend beyond the front of the face)

Features above the top line of the head

• For putters, alignment or other features must not extend above the top line of the face by more than 0.25 inches (6.35 mm) – see Figure 32. *(note - the decal is no where near .25" thick so it would easily pass this criteria)

• For woods and irons, features which otherwise meet the requirements for “plain in shape” must not extend above the top line of the head by more than 0.1 inch (2.54 mm).

• Permanent or semi-permanent lines or other markings which have been painted, inscribed or otherwise incorporated (see Section 1a) for alignment purposes are permitted. *(note - this part would seem to allow for decals to be added)"

[rogolf]

My only question would be, "are these markings considered permanent or semi-permanent by the authorities?".

Of course, only the authorities can answer that question.  Ask them here:

Rules of Golf
Phone: 908-326-1850 (7 days a week)
E-mail: [email protected]

 

BTW, I don't think that they are on perpendicular to the clubface (may be the photo).

Edited September 21, 2020 by rogolf

[Sawgrass]

If I recall correctly, in the preceding ROG there was an indication that adhesive tape was not considered to be semi-permanent. I’ve no reason to believe that has changed, though it might have-  and it seems relevant to the issue of there’s stickers. 

[Dpavs]

On 9/20/2020 at 9:39 PM, rogolf said:

My only question would be, "are these markings considered permanent or semi-permanent by the authorities?".

Of course, only the authorities can answer that question.  Ask them here:

Rules of Golf
Phone: 908-326-1850 (7 days a week)
E-mail: [email protected]

 

BTW, I don't think that they are on perpendicular to the clubface (may be the photo).

 

I think I am missing something with your question. Why would it matter? The USGA has indicated that permanent, semi-permanent or other markings are all allowed. Particularly, the statements regarding allowing "other markings" and "otherwise incorporated" makes pretty clear to me that the USGA is not concerned with nature of the markings as long as they conform to the other requirements regarding not extending past the face, or the excessive depth or height of the marking.

 

[Sawgrass]

The rules do concern themselves with alignment aides, and it all comes down to what is or is not permanent or semi-permanent.  From Part 2, IV, of the Equipment Rules, (bolding is mine):

 

Could be permitted:

• Attachments to the clubhead (other than the face), such as protective coverings, decorative items or alignment aids, provided the item is semi- permanent. However, such items must not excessively protrude from the clubhead and must conform to the shape of the clubhead. Also, for driving clubs, such attachments must not serve to cause any confusion with the correct identification of a club on the Conforming Driver

  List. Such attachments should, therefore, be subtle, plain in appearance and discreetly positioned. Permanent additions to a clubhead would beconsidered part of the head and, therefore, the head, in its modified state, would have to conform to Part 2, Section 4 of the Equipment Rules (i.e. for dimensions and “plain in shape”).

[antip]

8 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

The rules do concern themselves with alignment aides, and it all comes down to what is or is not permanent or semi-permanent.  From Part 2, IV, of the Equipment Rules, (bolding is mine):

 

Could be permitted:

• Attachments to the clubhead (other than the face), such as protective coverings, decorative items or alignment aids, provided the item is semi- permanent. However, such items must not excessively protrude from the clubhead and must conform to the shape of the clubhead. Also, for driving clubs, such attachments must not serve to cause any confusion with the correct identification of a club on the Conforming Driver

  List. Such attachments should, therefore, be subtle, plain in appearance and discreetly positioned. Permanent additions to a clubhead would beconsidered part of the head and, therefore, the head, in its modified state, would have to conform to Part 2, Section 4 of the Equipment Rules (i.e. for dimensions and “plain in shape”).

Agree. Other key advice provided is "Semi-permanent is interpreted to mean durable and not easily removable. Additionally, it must not be re-usable and/or must be essentially be destroyed upon removal." Other comment is it must not protrude and must conform to the shape of the clubhead.

 

My sense is this product as shown could well (with sufficiently robust glue) meet the semi-permanent test - and has been designed to do that. I see it as potentially quite different to a plain old non-complying adhesive tape.

 

Of course, the RBs  would need to provide the official answer in respect of this product and I wouldn't be surprised if that had occurred.

[Dpavs]

I understand the reference now but I am uncertain whether the USGA considers a decal an attachment or a marking and\or if by referencing each individually there is a clear intention to treat the two differently. It's an interesting question I think.

[rogolf]

33 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

I understand the reference now but I am uncertain whether the USGA considers a decal an attachment or a marking and\or if by referencing each individually there is a clear intention to treat the two differently. It's an interesting question I think.

You can contact the USGA Rules dept at [email protected]

They can provide the answer(s).

[Dpavs]

1 hour ago, rogolf said:

You can contact the USGA Rules dept at [email protected]

They can provide the answer(s).

I did send them an email right after I posted and will update the thread with their reply once received. Thanks!

[Dpavs]

Just a very quick update, the USGA Rules team director has forwarded my question on to the test team. I will update this thread again once I receive a further reply.

[david.c.w]

I know this is different as it is permanent, but funny that i saw this ad online.

 

[Dpavs]

Just a quick update for anyone still interested or following this thread. After the transfer or my question from the Rules team to the Test Center I was advised to wait 15 business days before reaching out to them again for an answer. That time has run and I have sent an additional email now to the Test Center requesting their follow up and response.

[Sawgrass]

I have also been waiting for a long time on an equipment question (using a plastic bottle cap as a tee).  On the plus side, I once got a very detailed response months after asking.

[Newby]

My impression is that equipment questions are always discussed with the other side. 

After the 'tied tees' issue.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Newby

[Dpavs]

Update and Answer from the USGA!

 

I received a call today from the USGA equipment team and had an very informative discussion with them and am able to provide this clarification of their position in regards to decals used as alignment aids.

 

1. Decals are considered attachments and not markings.

 

2. Because a decal is considered to be an attachment it must conform to the interpretations for Rule 1.a and particularly interpretation 1.a(5) regarding External Attachments which requires attachments used as alignment aids to be semi-permanent in nature. (we pretty much knew this regarding attachments but the team confirmed this requirement)

 

3. Whether a decal is semi-permanent in nature depends on the nature of the adhesive used. Specifically we discussed whether something like pin striping which is normally used on cars or other vehicles would be considered semi-permanent or not and the answer was that the USGA has already considered this question and the answer is Yes and it is allowed. 

 

4. We discussed a few different scenarios and Beyond #3 above, it becomes a judgment call. The team was able to provide this guidance which can be used in determining whether a particular decal is semi-permanent or not. Consider the strength of the adhesive used, how easily the decal can be removed and whether, generally, any outside agents such as alcohol or another adhesive solvent would be used to remove the decal. If it takes some effort to peel away the decal and\or a solvent to completely remove it, then it would be construed to be semi-permanent. If it is a peel and stick item that is very easily removed it of course would not.

 

Please note that if you are considering manufacturing such a product and would like to be sure it meets the USGA requirements, the best course of action is of course to send it in and have them verify that it is a conforming item.

 

Lastly, I would like to thank the USGA for their follow up and guidance!

Edited October 23, 2020 by Dpavs

[Mr. Bean]

Very good answer, although this part:

' If it takes some effort to peel away the decal and\or a solvent to completely remove it, then it would be construed to be semi-permanent. If it is a peel and stick item that is very easily removed it of course would not.'

is more or less self-evident, IMHO.

 

Nevertheless, thank you for the effort of clearing this issue up, much appreciated!

[LeoLeo99]

5 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Very good answer, although this part:

' If it takes some effort to peel away the decal and\or a solvent to completely remove it, then it would be construed to be semi-permanent. If it is a peel and stick item that is very easily removed it of course would not.'

is more or less self-evident, IMHO.

 

Nevertheless, thank you for the effort of clearing this issue up, much appreciated!

Right.  So the answer to the original question is:  Yes, the stickers are legal provided the adhesive is sticky enough. 

 

How sticky is sticky enough is a judgment call but it needs to be rather sticky. 

[rogolf]

35 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

Right.  So the answer to the original question is:  Yes, the stickers are legal provided the adhesive is sticky enough. 

 

How sticky is sticky enough is a judgment call but it needs to be rather sticky. 

Aye, it's a sticky wicket.

[Dpavs]

Agreed, it was hard to nail down how strong the adhesive side needed to be to be deemed semi-permanent. It was pretty clear that stickers and the like that are clearly designed or meant to be of the no fuss removable\easy peel off types would not be deemed semi-permanent. On the flip side there was the pin striping which did qualify and then a whole lot of gray in between!

[Dpavs]

20 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Very good answer, although this part:

' If it takes some effort to peel away the decal and\or a solvent to completely remove it, then it would be construed to be semi-permanent. If it is a peel and stick item that is very easily removed it of course would not.'

is more or less self-evident, IMHO.

 

Nevertheless, thank you for the effort of clearing this issue up, much appreciated!

 

Agreed that this concept was hard to formulate language around and maybe I should have said "if it takes a degree of effort" but it comes back to the same thing either way I suppose, i.e. it being a judgment call at some point.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Dpavs

[Halebopp]

This sounds a bit like the witch test. If the suspect drowned, she/he wasn't a witch. If you destroy the sticker with your attempt to peel it off while inspecting it, it was legal. 🙂

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, Dpavs said:

 

Agreed that this concept was hard to formulate language around and maybe I should have said "if it takes a degree of effort" but it comes back to the same thing either way I suppose, i.e. it being a judgment call at some point.

So... the text was written by you instead of those who sent it..?

 

Nice.

[Dpavs]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

So... the text was written by you instead of those who sent it..?

 

Nice.

Yep, yep and thanks. A representative from the Equipment team actually gave me a call rather than sending a reply email, which I thought was a very nice touch as it allowed me to ask additional questions to clarify and confirm what was being indicated as we spoke.   During the conversation I took notes regarding the answers to my questions as well as other things the representative was telling me and then I posted the cliff notes version of that here. 

[b.helts]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

So... the text was written by you instead of those who sent it..?

 

Nice.

Dpavs said they called him.  Try to keep up. 
 

Perhaps he recorded the call and could provide a transcript. 🙄

[Mr. Bean]

31 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

Yep, yep and thanks. A representative from the Equipment team actually gave me a call rather than sending a reply email, which I thought was a very nice touch as it allowed me to ask additional questions to clarify and confirm what was being indicated as we spoke.   During the conversation I took notes regarding the answers to my questions as well as other things the representative was telling me and then I posted the cliff notes version of that here. 

 

I apologize. From the presentation of the text I got the impression it had been sent to you. My mistake.

[antip]

5 hours ago, Dpavs said:

Yep, yep and thanks. A representative from the Equipment team actually gave me a call rather than sending a reply email, which I thought was a very nice touch as it allowed me to ask additional questions to clarify and confirm what was being indicated as we spoke.   During the conversation I took notes regarding the answers to my questions as well as other things the representative was telling me and then I posted the cliff notes version of that here. 

And a nice job you did too!

[Dpavs]

15 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I apologize. From the presentation of the text I got the impression it had been sent to you. My mistake.

 

No apologies necessary Mr. Bean!