Considering New Irons - Its one of those threads though *beware* ;-)

[Exactice808]

OK, I have a set of 714AP2's with Nippon 1150gh Stiff & my current Gamer set Cobra Amp Cell Pro's with PX rifle 6.0's (im listing the shafts as I have posted many times I am a proponent to match the shaft to the player.  The shafts are sorta different, but no that far off.)

 

The 714AP2's originally had X100 and I played these for 3 years (updated shafts and played about the same as I really didnt need the X100s) and played 1 year with the Nippons. I found the Cobra MB Set for (PW-6iron), $129.00 practically brand new.  (you read that right $129 for 5 irons.) So I had to snag them,  Played well with them and gaming them ever since.

 

 

these sets are about 6 years old, with good use.  since putting the MB's in play, I have gotten the common, your Handicap doesnt justify the the MB's or only Tour Pro's should be playing MB's yeah ok, Opinions.  I have had good scores and bad scores, have had the best scores of my life 74 (twice), but also shoot 90's once in a while. I hover about 85 on any given day.  I dont claim to be scratch or single, I dont claim qualified to play MB's.  What I claim is that club for club MB vs GI, there is no determinable difference one way or the other.

 

Honestly,  Partly bias (MB's look nicer), partly ego (I am absolutely playing what I like),  but data to also back it up There is no determinable difference in score to justify one way or the other.
 

THIS WILL BE A BLEED OVER from the other thread, but specific to me, and specific to the point, I dont have money to buy 2 sets of irons, nor do I want to. I want to buy a set PW-6iron but I am torn where should I actually put my money.

 

We all know the Facts of MB's vs GI's,  theres been enough threads about the iron debate.  

 

Personal acceptance: If forgiving irons can HELP I would take it, period I wont deny that.

 

Personal issues:  I have not found that the forgiveness has lowered my overall score, (to some what validate, same with the driver I have a 915D3 vs Cobra FlyZ+)  The FlyZ doesnt help OB offline shots, when its bad its bad.  the Same goes with the Irons.  having the AP2's doesnt reduce my offline shots or bad strikes.

 

 

I have one set of each for back up,  So if my purchase is a bad purchase (which I am trying like hell to avoid at all cost), I can likely go back to a set.   Should I just jump into some GI's spend the money and get it over with?  Next would be..... I am NOT a manufacture snob,  I will play anything that is cost affordable.  So I wont be doing the PXG/XXIO etc...  basically good enough clubs that wont break the bank. What would that be?  As it seem a PW-6i seems like a $700+ purchase....damn.....

CONT.....below... (data points)

 

 

 

 

[Exactice808]

*Flame suite activated* (please be gentle I went through the time to hit and log, and give the most honest assessment to have you poster give me equitable responses. while I accept there will be disagreements or difference of opinions I hope to keep it civil! LOL)

 

Ok first photo is from a point discussing in the Launch monitor section the difference of balls.

 

This is my 8iron AP2 -  Note the Ball speeds with the PROV1 (105 average) and Hex Tour (111 average) swing speed is wonky, and carry was weird so I assume I might have had a different setting from the next upcoming photo.   OK to be fair there is a 6mph ball speed difference from the ProV and the HExt,  but I want to note that the consistency is there,  the Extreme spreads (Prov is 5mph)  (Hex 5mph)  I am assuming this indicates consistency

 

Ok fast forward last night, I warmed up and, beat balls and took data. (8iron the first 20 shots. 6iron the last 10 shots)

AP2 vs MB's, 1 ball type no mixing. (was not the best of striking but consistent to repeatability) I TOOK EACH SHOT, I did not throw out shots or "cheat the list" this is legit 30 straight shots.

 

I did 5 shots with the AP2, then 5 shot with MB,  then I switch alternating shot for shot, to try and equalize the sheet.

 

 

AP2 first 5 (109mph ball speeds, 149y carry) 

MB first 5 (109mph BS 149y carry)  

 

Identical for the most part no?  The AP2 in the intial had a greater extreme spread but lets chalk the very first test shot as a bad fluke.  so spread of 5mph between those 5 shots.

 

 

Second Run of alternating shots

 

AP2 (113mph BS, 155y carry)

MB (111mph BS, 152y carry)    

 

Similar again as I really grooved the swing got faster to be fair.  Yet the extreme spread was 4mph & 3mph respectably.  

 

 

Moving to the 6 iron

 

AP2 (122mph BS, 175 carry)

MB (123mph BS, 176 carry)

 

Again VERY similar.

 

 

I personally feel I strike the ball decently, BUT I do have face angle issues that cause my offline shots. BUT personally I feel I hit the center of the club pretty consistently.  30 consecutive shots, has to have some validation to my personal claim? Or am I just fooling myself?


OK here is the the other point to the Other thread.  I mention I had a hard time with GI's for what ever reason as the miss has always been long for me and left.

 

 

If you look at the second photo shot averages,  going from the first 5  then alternating shot,  There was an almost 6 yard increase in average.  depending where the pin is 6y carry could be the difference of missing the green.  And this is the problem I seem to have.  compare that to the MB, which only has a 3y difference.

 

I found the MB's to be more "consistent" have a better proximity for me.  The GI's while longer and forgiving, has a wider proximity and some unintended longer shots.

 

 

Do I just buy the GI's knowing the above data, because ultimately the GI's are more forgiving and WORK through the proximity challenge?  Is it worth it?

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Exactice808

[Ripken08]

Get a tweener between both your current sets.  I highly recommend the MP20 MMCs.  The look is there, the feel is there and they are fairly forgiving.

[Exactice808]

13 minutes ago, Ripken08 said:

Get a tweener between both your current sets.  I highly recommend the MP20 MMCs.  The look is there, the feel is there and they are fairly forgiving.

So I have a combo set sorta already.

 

PW-6iron is MB's  and 4 & 5 irons are TM TP MC's which are awesome....  

 

the 4 iron is really my driving iron off really short par4s or when I need to hit crap out of the trees.  the 5 iron is for crappy par5 drives that leaves me really long second shots, or short par5's that I hit magical drives.


Actually that makes some sense I could go MC's all the way down.  Never actually tried those LOL.   I figured Forgiveness and Game improvements. since I get the looks from my club fitter all the time when I go to have my MB specs checked annually.  

 

PS thanks I will look into the MP20's dont know much about them.

[PJE]

As Ripken 08 stated, a combo set? He suggested MP20MMC. A great choice.

I also think viable choices might be JPX919 or JPX 921 Tours or Forged or Srixon 785/585 combo?

[mahonie]

@Exactice808 you know me as a blade player, however, due to circumstances beyond my control (my son took a shine to my MP4s!!) I ended up with the Cobra CB/MB flow set in my sig. Just to clarify, I drove for 2 hours to test and buy the Cobras and thought it was a full MB set and didn’t find out until I got to the store. Anyway, I only hit the 7-iron and was sold...thinking the CBs wouldn’t be any harder to hit. Sure enough the CB 4, 5 and 6 are fine clubs...they don’t feel quite the same as the MBs but they’re not bad. The thing is, although they are ok to hit, they are no easier to hit than the MP4s and haven’t miraculously made me into a better golfer or improved my scores.

 

Having said that and as others have said, perhaps a true combo set is the way to go.

[Exactice808]

Just looked up the MP20 MMC, they look good and interesting.  The biggest thing I have though, shoot, it doesnt flow with the lofts. These are 2 degrees stronger 9iron and up... 

 

 

 

But just browsing the Mizuno Line.  I need to do more research but interesting the JPX921 tour?  Has similar lofts to what I have so I should not have a distance curve issue (as I mentioned in my prior post about having supposed proximity issues)

 

I played long ago the JPX825 pro's and LOVED those, Im curious the JPX tour vs MP20 MMC's  need to google! 

 

[DMartini]

@Exactice808 if you are enjoying using the 2 TM irons you currently have & getting good results with them why not hit the bay or BST here and look for another couple of them? maybe a 6 & 7 iron, then you can hunt around for the blades in your scoring irons.

 

[NRJyzr]

Tom Wishon has posted a few times over the years on the joys of MOI.  He's a believer in forgiveness, but he also says there's no effective difference between MB and CB from the 7i or 8i on down.  If youre hitting the MBs well, I would say there's no real reason to change, unless launch conditions are not ideal.

 

IMHO that 7i or 8i can be stretched father in the set depending on the player.  Such as with you and your Amp Cell Pro 6i.

 

I spent a year away from MBs playing Eye2+.  It didn't diminish the variability in my scores (7 hdcp); I still had the mid 80s and even upper 80s along with the good rounds in the 70s, shot low 90s on a three round trip to resort courses, all that fun.

 

I'm admittedly biased, but if you feel comfortable with your current rig, why not stick with the concept?

[Polly509109]

P770’s. U can thank me later

[jpbova]

14 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Just looked up the MP20 MMC, they look good and interesting.  The biggest thing I have though, shoot, it doesnt flow with the lofts. These are 2 degrees stronger 9iron and up... 

 

 

 

But just browsing the Mizuno Line.  I need to do more research but interesting the JPX921 tour?  Has similar lofts to what I have so I should not have a distance curve issue (as I mentioned in my prior post about having supposed proximity issues)

 

I played long ago the JPX825 pro's and LOVED those, Im curious the JPX tour vs MP20 MMC's  need to google! 

 

I have hit both the MMCs and 921 tours. Nice clubs. I wouldn’t say either of them play like a CB. They felt more blade like to me.   Gun to my head I would choose the 921 tours but that is because they felt ever so slightly more forgiving 

Edited September 18, 2020 by jpbova

[Red4282]

19 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

OK, I have a set of 714AP2's with Nippon 1150gh Stiff & my current Gamer set Cobra Amp Cell Pro's with PX rifle 6.0's (im listing the shafts as I have posted many times I am a proponent to match the shaft to the player.  The shafts are sorta different, but no that far off.)

 

The 714AP2's originally had X100 and I played these for 3 years (updated shafts and played about the same as I really didnt need the X100s) and played 1 year with the Nippons. I found the Cobra MB Set for (PW-6iron), $129.00 practically brand new.  (you read that right $129 for 5 irons.) So I had to snag them,  Played well with them and gaming them ever since.

 

 

these sets are about 6 years old, with good use.  since putting the MB's in play, I have gotten the common, your Handicap doesnt justify the the MB's or only Tour Pro's should be playing MB's yeah ok, Opinions.  I have had good scores and bad scores, have had the best scores of my life 74 (twice), but also shoot 90's once in a while. I hover about 85 on any given day.  I dont claim to be scratch or single, I dont claim qualified to play MB's.  What I claim is that club for club MB vs GI, there is no determinable difference one way or the other.

 

Honestly,  Partly bias (MB's look nicer), partly ego (I am absolutely playing what I like),  but data to also back it up There is no determinable difference in score to justify one way or the other.
 

THIS WILL BE A BLEED OVER from the other thread, but specific to me, and specific to the point, I dont have money to buy 2 sets of irons, nor do I want to. I want to buy a set PW-6iron but I am torn where should I actually put my money.

 

We all know the Facts of MB's vs GI's,  theres been enough threads about the iron debate.  

 

Personal acceptance: If forgiving irons can HELP I would take it, period I wont deny that.

 

Personal issues:  I have not found that the forgiveness has lowered my overall score, (to some what validate, same with the driver I have a 915D3 vs Cobra FlyZ+)  The FlyZ doesnt help OB offline shots, when its bad its bad.  the Same goes with the Irons.  having the AP2's doesnt reduce my offline shots or bad strikes.

 

 

I have one set of each for back up,  So if my purchase is a bad purchase (which I am trying like hell to avoid at all cost), I can likely go back to a set.   Should I just jump into some GI's spend the money and get it over with?  Next would be..... I am NOT a manufacture snob,  I will play anything that is cost affordable.  So I wont be doing the PXG/XXIO etc...  basically good enough clubs that wont break the bank. What would that be?  As it seem a PW-6i seems like a $700+ purchase....damn.....

CONT.....below... (data points)

 

 

 

 

Just get some t100’s and be done. Best of both worlds, looks fantastic, player shape, but still some pretty good help. If you are patient enough you can score them below 700. I bought 620cbs mint earlier this year 5-pw for 500 shipped. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Red4282

[Red4282]

18 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

*Flame suite activated* (please be gentle I went through the time to hit and log, and give the most honest assessment to have you poster give me equitable responses. while I accept there will be disagreements or difference of opinions I hope to keep it civil! LOL)

 

Ok first photo is from a point discussing in the Launch monitor section the difference of balls.

 

This is my 8iron AP2 -  Note the Ball speeds with the PROV1 (105 average) and Hex Tour (111 average) swing speed is wonky, and carry was weird so I assume I might have had a different setting from the next upcoming photo.   OK to be fair there is a 6mph ball speed difference from the ProV and the HExt,  but I want to note that the consistency is there,  the Extreme spreads (Prov is 5mph)  (Hex 5mph)  I am assuming this indicates consistency

 

Ok fast forward last night, I warmed up and, beat balls and took data. (8iron the first 20 shots. 6iron the last 10 shots)

AP2 vs MB's, 1 ball type no mixing. (was not the best of striking but consistent to repeatability) I TOOK EACH SHOT, I did not throw out shots or "cheat the list" this is legit 30 straight shots.

 

I did 5 shots with the AP2, then 5 shot with MB,  then I switch alternating shot for shot, to try and equalize the sheet.

 

 

AP2 first 5 (109mph ball speeds, 149y carry) 

MB first 5 (109mph BS 149y carry)  

 

Identical for the most part no?  The AP2 in the intial had a greater extreme spread but lets chalk the very first test shot as a bad fluke.  so spread of 5mph between those 5 shots.

 

 

Second Run of alternating shots

 

AP2 (113mph BS, 155y carry)

MB (111mph BS, 152y carry)    

 

Similar again as I really grooved the swing got faster to be fair.  Yet the extreme spread was 4mph & 3mph respectably.  

 

 

Moving to the 6 iron

 

AP2 (122mph BS, 175 carry)

MB (123mph BS, 176 carry)

 

Again VERY similar.

 

 

I personally feel I strike the ball decently, BUT I do have face angle issues that cause my offline shots. BUT personally I feel I hit the center of the club pretty consistently.  30 consecutive shots, has to have some validation to my personal claim? Or am I just fooling myself?


OK here is the the other point to the Other thread.  I mention I had a hard time with GI's for what ever reason as the miss has always been long for me and left.

 

 

If you look at the second photo shot averages,  going from the first 5  then alternating shot,  There was an almost 6 yard increase in average.  depending where the pin is 6y carry could be the difference of missing the green.  And this is the problem I seem to have.  compare that to the MB, which only has a 3y difference.

 

I found the MB's to be more "consistent" have a better proximity for me.  The GI's while longer and forgiving, has a wider proximity and some unintended longer shots.

 

 

Do I just buy the GI's knowing the above data, because ultimately the GI's are more forgiving and WORK through the proximity challenge?  Is it worth it?

 

What monitor are you using? You cant compare these distances if your monitor doesnt measure that,  as launch and spin play a big role in that. it could be skewing the results as its just plugging in default launch and spin numbers. 

[Exactice808]

8 hours ago, DMartini said:

@Exactice808 if you are enjoying using the 2 TM irons you currently have & getting good results with them why not hit the bay or BST here and look for another couple of them? maybe a 6 & 7 iron, then you can hunt around for the blades in your scoring irons.

 

I have been searching, New TP MC's are none to found LOL..... I know TM just released their "new MC's" but honestly they look terrible!  I have been looking into the Cobra CB's but again hard to find.  As soon as our lock down is up I may swing down to my 2 stores to do a fitting/testing.   Im going to continue an additional post shortly.

[Exactice808]

8 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

Tom Wishon has posted a few times over the years on the joys of MOI.  He's a believer in forgiveness, but he also says there's no effective difference between MB and CB from the 7i or 8i on down.  If youre hitting the MBs well, I would say there's no real reason to change, unless launch conditions are not ideal.

 

IMHO that 7i or 8i can be stretched father in the set depending on the player.  Such as with you and your Amp Cell Pro 6i.

 

I spent a year away from MBs playing Eye2+.  It didn't diminish the variability in my scores (7 hdcp); I still had the mid 80s and even upper 80s along with the good rounds in the 70s, shot low 90s on a three round trip to resort courses, all that fun.

 

I'm admittedly biased, but if you feel comfortable with your current rig, why not stick with the concept?

Hey @NRJyzr  I have enjoyed your post for years! So thank you for the response.

 

OK so again this will be a blead over from the other thread as I didnt want to derail the other for a "personal" crusade. LOL

 

So personally  I can attest to the "thought" that PW-7iron down I personally dont see much if any difference.  I posted my numbers to provide personal evidence for me, the 8irons are very identical.  And then show the "strongest" MB (6iron)  I hit it well with no real issues (balls speeds are very similar indicating strike consistencies).  I have a lot of confidence with the MB up to the 6iron. the 5iron and up, not so much HENCE the reason for the MC's (combo)  as I mention in this thread and the other. I AM NOT ashamed or stubborn not to switch if there was a chance to gain something.

 

This is the dilemma I am stuck when purchasing though.  (AGAIN CHEEEAAAPPP LOL)  I dont want to drop $700 on something that I might have regrets, If i had money to buy multiple sets or money to make custom sets thats one thing. Not my reality though.   My fitter gives me the funny look,  my playing partners give me the funny look,  GolfWRX gives me the funny look lol. My own brain tells me Im stupid.  Yet.  When I put GI's in play.... it does not affect my score. I HAVE NOTHING against GI's I just want a quantifiable benefit. Which, the masses seem to imply exist?

 

Its been a while since I researched irons as I was happy with what I got, but its funny there are SO many options now.  The odd part as well, for what ever reason now have  a "Tweener" a regular CB,  not a pocket/hollow CB like my AP2s  actual CB's like the titleist CB's.  That was the only one I thought existed and then when straight GI's/SGIs.  

 

anyways again going to continue and will tag you and others a specific point to discuss.

 

[Exactice808]

8 hours ago, Polly509109 said:

P770’s. U can thank me later

researching LOL!

[Exactice808]

6 hours ago, jpbova said:

I have hit both the MMCs and 921 tours. Nice clubs. I wouldn’t say either of them play like a CB. They felt more blade like to me.   Gun to my head I would choose the 921 tours but that is because they felt ever so slightly more forgiving 

So again reading alot,  the 921 tours actually seem to fit my thought.  the more I read about them.  I had JPX825 pro's as my VERY first full purchase and loved them.  but there seems to be something I am now aware of.  continued.

 

 

[Exactice808]

4 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Just get some t100’s and be done. Best of both worlds, looks fantastic, player shape, but still some pretty good help. If you are patient enough you can score them below 700. I bought 620cbs mint earlier this year 5-pw for 500 shipped. 

Wow! Under $700 and CB for 500shipped I would take that in a heart beat!   I need to check but the T100 are the AP2 replacements?  If so, these goes back to the original crux right.   Im going to tag you into a specified point that I have.

 

4 hours ago, Red4282 said:

What monitor are you using? You cant compare these distances if your monitor doesnt measure that,  as launch and spin play a big role in that. it could be skewing the results as its just plugging in default launch and spin numbers. 

 

I just got my ES14 (God I love that thing)  For years I had the SC100.  The SC100 was great at catching ballspeed,  so so with swing speed, so so with distance. I dont trust distance and the swing speed is questionable with the smash factor, but there are times when its equitable.

 

the ES14 on the other hand is SOLID!  Ball speeds are right there where they should be,  the launch angle and spin are also right where it should be.  The Actually distance can be finicky at times,  but still seem to match up.   But all in all the ES14 measure with 2 Dopplers pretty accurately so I trust the numbers I have posted.  That and the match up to my on course distances pretty well.  (example.  8iron is 150-155,   6iron is 170-175) if I had a distance straight those would be the irons I used for that distance.

Ok continued.

 

[Exactice808]

@DMartini @NRJyzr @jpbova @Red4282

OK so I had more thoughts and revelations and reading,  So I wanted to keep the conversation going.  ONLY reason is and again this could be a personal crusade.  GI's work for those that work it may NOT be a catch all unless you PUT enough effort to make them work. MB's could work for a specified player regardless of their handicap.  Example, is Drivers,  There are way less forgiving drivers that players with higher handicaps play like the SLDR/SubZero/LST type low spinning low MOI less forgiving heads because it gives them optimal launch numbers.  

OK moving to the point I wanted to share I have been missing something.  GI's vs actual Cavity backs.  This might be my "window" AP2's are players GI's  meaning hollow/pocket cavities with player like design traditional lofts minimal offset etc.

Yet the CB lines exist that I guess I skipped over thinking if I am going to play a CB which I tested one time, Titleist CBs vs MB's they were the same,  just that the CB's spun a little more and launch a little higher same setup (shaft) But now there are other manufacturers making more CB lines than I realized.

I have been trying to justify the "Forgiveness" and that would be in the GI/Hollow cavity design. completely ignoring the true Cavity Back design.

 

The TM MC's are super low offset and while they have a pocket I think they are still solid in design, not hollowed like the AP2s.


OK so this then has me thinking,  there HAS to be a benefit to CB's of forgiveness but since I "seem" to strike the ball well enough I dont need to go full hollow cavity, but at least CB's to gain some "additional" forgiveness that could ONLY benefit me?

 

thoughts? that would be a more "equitable" trade off?  I doubt due to the solid design but perimeter weighting I would not see as much of a potential distance disparity compared to a hollow design? 

[tsecor]

t100-S...look like a blade at address, plays with more forgiveness than you can imagine.....very stable club too......i was a 712 CB player for year...just moved to the T100-S and i couldnt be happier

[Red4282]

29 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Wow! Under $700 and CB for 500shipped I would take that in a heart beat!   I need to check but the T100 are the AP2 replacements?  If so, these goes back to the original crux right.   Im going to tag you into a specified point that I have.

 

 

I just got my ES14 (God I love that thing)  For years I had the SC100.  The SC100 was great at catching ballspeed,  so so with swing speed, so so with distance. I dont trust distance and the swing speed is questionable with the smash factor, but there are times when its equitable.

 

the ES14 on the other hand is SOLID!  Ball speeds are right there where they should be,  the launch angle and spin are also right where it should be.  The Actually distance can be finicky at times,  but still seem to match up.   But all in all the ES14 measure with 2 Dopplers pretty accurately so I trust the numbers I have posted.  That and the match up to my on course distances pretty well.  (example.  8iron is 150-155,   6iron is 170-175) if I had a distance straight those would be the irons I used for that distance.

Ok continued.

 

It plays similar to the ap2 in terms of forgiveness but thats where the similarities end. I have a t100 4 iron and the 620cb5-pw (which is pretty much a blade), and there is almost no difference in looks from address between the 4 iron and 5 iron, other than loft obviously. I think the best comparison to them is the mizuno mmc playability wise but better to me because of the thinner topline and less offset.

[Red4282]

23 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

@DMartini @NRJyzr @jpbova @Red4282

OK so I had more thoughts and revelations and reading,  So I wanted to keep the conversation going.  ONLY reason is and again this could be a personal crusade.  GI's work for those that work it may NOT be a catch all unless you PUT enough effort to make them work. MB's could work for a specified player regardless of their handicap.  Example, is Drivers,  There are way less forgiving drivers that players with higher handicaps play like the SLDR/SubZero/LST type low spinning low MOI less forgiving heads because it gives them optimal launch numbers.  

OK moving to the point I wanted to share I have been missing something.  GI's vs actual Cavity backs.  This might be my "window" AP2's are players GI's  meaning hollow/pocket cavities with player like design traditional lofts minimal offset etc.

Yet the CB lines exist that I guess I skipped over thinking if I am going to play a CB which I tested one time, Titleist CBs vs MB's they were the same,  just that the CB's spun a little more and launch a little higher same setup (shaft) But now there are other manufacturers making more CB lines than I realized.

I have been trying to justify the "Forgiveness" and that would be in the GI/Hollow cavity design. completely ignoring the true Cavity Back design.

 

The TM MC's are super low offset and while they have a pocket I think they are still solid in design, not hollowed like the AP2s.


OK so this then has me thinking,  there HAS to be a benefit to CB's of forgiveness but since I "seem" to strike the ball well enough I dont need to go full hollow cavity, but at least CB's to gain some "additional" forgiveness that could ONLY benefit me?

 

thoughts? that would be a more "equitable" trade off?  I doubt due to the solid design but perimeter weighting I would not see as much of a potential distance disparity compared to a hollow design? 

I think you are over thinking this... lol. Probably the best thing you can do is just combo em up. 4-7 iron semi GI with forgiveness and 8-pw traditional blade or cb type. This setup fits most golfers in that mid handicap range

[Exactice808]

10 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

I think you are over thinking this... lol. Probably the best thing you can do is just combo em up. 4-7 iron semi GI with forgiveness and 8-pw traditional blade or cb type. This setup fits most golfers in that mid handicap range

My apologies as I am over thinking this, BUT this is what the forums are for, debate and fun of discussing in-depth LOL!

 

The biggest issue is there is a wife hurdle, kids hurdle and money hurdle.  I am one that is controlling of finance and as you can see also detailed oriented.  So if I make a purchase, $100 or more, I am going to research the living daylights out of it. and FIND the best bang for the buck.

I have been searching for split sets, just to see whats out there as an option.   As you mentioned this has then changed my outlook.  I may do the CB PW-6iron and keep the TM MC's I have as they are pretty new and dont have as much road time as the PW-8iron.

 

Im looking at the MB options,  but again I WANT to make the forgiveness work, I Know I can with a slight learning curve/time and effort.  BUT I guess I got so engrossed in the forgiveness, not realizing there are "levels" solid CB vs Hollow CB's  

 

The ONLY next and biggest issue is distance gapping. In addition to forgiveness I personally am happy with my distances  PW -130, 8iron 150ish , 6iron 170ish

 

The learning curve would be a challenge because of the ends of the bag,  wedges are specified distance, So if a 46* wedge goes 130,  and a newer 44* wedge would go 140,  the gap between my GW is now almost 25y thats pretty big for a scoring area?  and 4 & 5 irons are just getting it out there,  BUT if my 6 iron is going as far as my 4 & 5 iron, my mid 150 shot will be between a 8 & 9 iron. That would be an interesting learning curve? (take away the number on the bottom) does the gaps widen due to the lofts are to they basically stay the same.

 

Anyways  I am again over thinking but wanting to evolve the Game Improvement discussion that, theres MORE to it than just more forgiveness and more forgiveness is NOT the only facet to improvement for a golfer.  This game is multifaceted! 
 

 

[Pepperturbo]

I have 2 sets of irons - 620MB and 620CB irons.  Comparatively speaking, 6i to 6i - I hit the CB 6i further by about 2-4yds than MB 6i.  The MB"s in my hands are really target shooting irons.  That distance spread is common through out the sets too.  I have CB 3-6i and MB 7i-PW in the bag.  With either set, lazy is not an option. 

 

However, I have 3 sets of GI irons in club storage that allow me to be what I refer to as lazy over the ball.  That means I can address the ball and target and not think about my swing mechanics nearly as much.

 

IMO - More forgiveness does NOT improve a golfers skill; it just cuts the golfer some slack.

 

Good luck.

[Exactice808]

3 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I have 2 sets of irons - 620MB and 620CB irons.  Comparatively speaking, 6i to 6i - I hit the CB 6i further by about 2-4yds than MB 6i.  The MB"s in my hands are really target shooting irons.  That distance spread is common through out the sets too.  I have CB 3-6i and MB 7i-PW in the bag.  With either set, lazy is not an option. 

 

However, I have 3 sets of GI irons in club storage that allow me to be what I refer to as lazy over the ball.  That means I can address the ball and target and not think about my swing mechanics nearly as much.

 

IMO - More forgiveness does NOT improve a golfers skill; it just cuts the golfer some slack.

 

Good luck.

hmmm interesting POINT! There is subconscious natural sense of comfort/relaxation I am SURE.  I know that this can be subjective but much like how many car accidents happen within 1 mile of a person's home due to people getting relaxed. I am sure there is some truth. (debatable) LOL

 

I will say I try to concentrate as much as I can. OR when swinging away I am swinging fluidly equally with both MB's and GI's. IM not intentionally or consciously being more relaxed with GI's

 

Now I have always had the thought with the MBs vs GI, that the GI's would flight a little higher and go about 3 yard farther on average.  This flowed through the set as well (slight shaft difference and club head design).  My biggest issue that I seem to validate personally is proximity (dispersion).

 

While the GI's go further and retain ballspeed on less then optimal strikes.  They also have a wider shot pattern than the MB's the MB's may not go as far but the pattern is tighter.  Tighter to the point where it could affect scoring ( 1 stroke is 1 stroke) If the GI's give me that one stroke I would take it, but its not making up anything while being forgiving or going further.

My implication to those that say GI's are "better" generally, while this may be true, there are still facets we have to measure if one is considering the best scoring opportunity.  Forgiveness is NOT the only factor that should measure what clubs a person plays.  (opinion of course)

 

 

[jpbova]

Over thinking is also what I like to do in my spare time ?

[larryd3]

Why don't you call up Jason at Sub70 golf and discuss with him?  His clubs are very good quality and priced really well and he will custom build to your specs.  I'd share all of your specs with him and then have a phone discussion.  Good luck in your quest.  

[Exactice808]

1 hour ago, larryd3 said:

Why don't you call up Jason at Sub70 golf and discuss with him?  His clubs are very good quality and priced really well and he will custom build to your specs.  I'd share all of your specs with him and then have a phone discussion.  Good luck in your quest.  

Hey! Not sure who or what that is! but I will do my research now LOL.

[LeoLeo99]

3 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I have 2 sets of irons - 620MB and 620CB irons.  Comparatively speaking, 6i to 6i - I hit the CB 6i further by about 2-4yds than MB 6i.  The MB"s in my hands are really target shooting irons.  That distance spread is common through out the sets too.  I have CB 3-6i and MB 7i-PW in the bag.  With either set, lazy is not an option. 

 

However, I have 3 sets of GI irons in club storage that allow me to be what I refer to as lazy over the ball.  That means I can address the ball and target and not think about my swing mechanics nearly as much.

 

IMO - More forgiveness does NOT improve a golfers skill; it just cuts the golfer some slack.

 

Good luck.

I'll take all the slack they're giving.  I hit 14 GIR my last round.  Seven of those approach shots were pured. The other seven were were off the toe, a groove of two low, high, etc.  

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

hmmm interesting POINT! There is subconscious natural sense of comfort/relaxation I am SURE.  I know that this can be subjective but much like how many car accidents happen within 1 mile of a person's home due to people getting relaxed. I am sure there is some truth. (debatable) LOL

 

I will say I try to concentrate as much as I can. OR when swinging away I am swinging fluidly equally with both MB's and GI's. IM not intentionally or consciously being more relaxed with GI's

 

Now I have always had the thought with the MBs vs GI, that the GI's would flight a little higher and go about 3 yard farther on average.  This flowed through the set as well (slight shaft difference and club head design).  My biggest issue that I seem to validate personally is proximity (dispersion).

 

While the GI's go further and retain ballspeed on less then optimal strikes.  They also have a wider shot pattern than the MB's the MB's may not go as far but the pattern is tighter.  Tighter to the point where it could affect scoring ( 1 stroke is 1 stroke) If the GI's give me that one stroke I would take it, but its not making up anything while being forgiving or going further.

My implication to those that say GI's are "better" generally, while this may be true, there are still facets we have to measure if one is considering the best scoring opportunity.  Forgiveness is NOT the only factor that should measure what clubs a person plays.  (opinion of course)

 

 

 

When I say lazy - what I mean is recently my buddy handed me his Ping 5i and nonchalantly I stepped over the ball and smacked it straight 180yds.  I knew what the head would do, I can't do that with 620MB 5i or any of them.  You'd think the 620MB PW would compare to Vokey PW, it feels completely different.  When over my MB's I have to pay closer attention to my take away, tempo and hip/shoulder turn away as all of it influences where the club head is when it drops into the slot, and reaches impact.  It's only a dime sweet spot (figuratively) so easy to fractionally miss and lose 10+yards, especially when I want to hit the ball hard. 

 

One other aspect of this, for me at least, I am dyslexic and have a minor case of ADD, plus the brain operates on warp speed with rare quotient.  So, anything that helps force me to focus is to my advantage.  Part of the reason I was a good 600-700 meter shooter when younger, but that's a different subject. 

 

I am not saying my stuff applies to anyone else.  Just that I learned from forgiving X-Forged GI heads (played from 2006-2016) and blades before and since, what I need to be aware of and do to hit either of my irons.  Though I am playing good golf with 620MBs and 620CB's purchased Oct 2019, I am still getting comfortable with their demands.  Have a good weekend of golf.