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Had a fitting, need your help: Mizuno MP20 MMC vs. JPX 921 Forged


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Hey guys,

 

So I was on a Trackman for an hour and a half this morning at our local fitting outfit.  I went in with JPX 921 Forged on my mind, but unfortunately they didn't have a fitting head - but rather just an OEM stock Nippon stiff shaft glued into a 7 iron.  So I wasn't able to try different shaft options.  Saying that, they did have a 919 Forged fitting head 7 iron, which allowed me to get an idea of how the 921 would react with different shafts installed.  

 

I couldn't flush the 921 Forged to save my life.  Thin to win, then fat while trying to compensate.  This was with the stock Nippon shaft.  Then he gave me the 919 with a Project X Rifle 6.5 - which was stiffer obviously (based on what the trackman was telling him).  Gosh, I was stripping them.  Hitting flush shots, and they felt amazing.  Now, something to keep in mind is that for some reason he had a bunch of lead tape packed into the cavity on the 919 Forged 7 iron.... not sure how much that would impact things?

 

After the 919F, he put that Project X Rifle 6.5 shaft into an MP20 MMC 7 iron.  It was pure magic.  I couldn't miss (maybe a bit of an exaggeration ?, they felt amazing and the shaft did everything you'd want in a proper fit shaft selection.  But again, he had a ton of lead tape in the upper part of the MMC cavity.  I was hitting the MMC 7 iron the same distance as I did the 919F (180yard total).  He told me it was the most consistent, tightest dispersion, etc.  He was really happy with the results.  Basically told me to buy that setup.

 

I'm not sure what route to take.  My concern is that I'm going to struggle with the MMC long irons... but likely won't need to go past a 5 iron (as based on the launch monitor I'd hit around 205/210yards).  But I'm unable to test them out.  He suggested the MP20 HMB in the long irons, now he did have an HMB 4 iron in house, but good lord it was small.   So small that mentally I already told myself I couldn't hit it.  My concern is that I'm mentally unable to see past that tiny head.

 

How much harder are the MMC long irons going to be to hit as compared to the JPX921 Forged Long irons?  I jumped into my local Golf Town afterwards to see if they had a both sets to test - they did, and into a monitor couldn't tell that much of a difference?   But launch monitor play is MUCH different from real life play.

 

He's going to go over all the numbers tonight and report back (the next client showed up so I had to jump out before we could get into the nitty gritty).

 

A bit about me.

 

40 year old - used to golf a lot, after kids haven't played as much as I used to.  But joined a club and plan to play at least once a week.

Swing speed on the Trackman was 88-90mph with a 7 iron.  

Currently playing Nike Pro Combo forged irons with DGS300 shafts.

I tend to take 4"-6" divot when flushed.

I shoot low 80's as I can't put to save my life.

 

One gripe I have with the MMC is the lack of matching gap wedge.  I really like having a matching gap wedge in the bag, but it's not a deal breaker.

 

Any insight or thoughts are appreciated.


 

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If you weren't starting the fitting with the Mizuno Optimizer, you're missing out. It's a fantastic tool that will greatly narrow down shaft choices. I'm 51 and it put me in DG X-100's last year, and

Im about a 15 handi... score anywhere from 81 on a great day to 94 on a very bad day and average about 86 i would say. I play the mp 20 mmc in nippon 95 stiff shafts. Couldnt be any happier overall. T

This link might help: https://mizunogolf.com/us/irons-comparison-table/   You can look up the specs on the irons: head length, sole width, top line, and offset.   I had Nike irons, like your

If you weren't starting the fitting with the Mizuno Optimizer, you're missing out. It's a fantastic tool that will greatly narrow down shaft choices. I'm 51 and it put me in DG X-100's last year, and I just rip the ball with them. Rather than screw around with all kinds of "try this" and "try that", it will get you in to three top choices, then you hit them and see the results. I'm in a full set of HMB's (starting with the 5-iron) and am very happy. Once it  narrows down shaft choices, you can just play with some of the heads to see what you like best. 

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Im about a 15 handi... score anywhere from 81 on a great day to 94 on a very bad day and average about 86 i would say. I play the mp 20 mmc in nippon 95 stiff shafts. Couldnt be any happier overall. They are the right amount of forgivness for me and definetly for the club head size more on the forgiving side then punishing. I must put a really bad impact on the ball to create a really bad shot.. but thats any club to be honest. It all depend on if you want to play a players club with a great amouny of forgiveness or a really nice gi iron with maybe no more then a tad more forgiveness then the mmc.

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This link might help: https://mizunogolf.com/us/irons-comparison-table/  

You can look up the specs on the irons: head length, sole width, top line, and offset.  

I had Nike irons, like yourself, and I don't think they were forgiving and you hit them just fine. So, you probably would be just fine with all MMC but why bother with it since your are already concerned about MMC long iron playability? Maybe go 5-PW or 6-PW in the MMC with 4 or 5 irons in the JPX921 Forged? Best of both worlds? 

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I just got back from visually checking out all the clubs in the new line - the Forged really do look the business.  Sounds like you like the PX 6.5.  Order those w/ 921F and you'll be good to go.  The 921F looked really good and slimmer than I expected - no wonder the fitters are saying these are the home run in the line.  Submit order!

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Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero 16.5* / Project X Hzrdus Smoke 80 6.5
Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal Pro 4 Iron / Nippon Modus 120X
Mizuno JPX 900 Tour 4-PW / Nippon Modus 120X
Titleist SM7 52.08F* / Nippon Modus 120X
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3 minutes ago, PJE said:

This link might help: https://mizunogolf.com/us/irons-comparison-table/  

You can look up the specs on the irons: head length, sole width, top line, and offset.  

I had Nike irons, like yourself, and I don't think they were forgiving and you hit them just fine. So, you probably would be just fine with the MMC but why bother with it? Just get 5-PW or 6-PW in the MMC and 4 or 5 irons in the JPX919 Forged? Best of both worlds? 

Cant order 919F anymore.  And no real need to combo current Mizuno - they flow really well through the set 

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Titleist TS2 9.5* / Project X EvenFlow White T1100 65X
Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero 16.5* / Project X Hzrdus Smoke 80 6.5
Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal Pro 4 Iron / Nippon Modus 120X
Mizuno JPX 900 Tour 4-PW / Nippon Modus 120X
Titleist SM7 52.08F* / Nippon Modus 120X
Titleist SM7 56.08M* / KBS Tour 610 S+
Titleist SM7 60.04L* / KBS Tour 610 S+
Ping Vault Bergen

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4 minutes ago, PJE said:

This link might help: https://mizunogolf.com/us/irons-comparison-table/  

You can look up the specs on the irons: head length, sole width, top line, and offset.  

I had Nike irons, like yourself, and I don't think they were forgiving and you hit them just fine. So, you probably would be just fine with the MMC but why bother with it? Just get 5-PW or 6-PW in the MMC and 4 or 5 irons in the JPX919 Forged? Best of both worlds? 

 My only concern with this is the drastic difference between the 921F lofts and the MMC lofts - they would have to be some serious loft adjustments made to blend the set....

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5 minutes ago, quikcolin said:

 My only concern with this is the drastic difference between the 921F lofts and the MMC lofts - they would have to be some serious loft adjustments made to blend the set....

Good point, I think the 921F are a degree stronger in the 4 and 5 than the MMC but one thing about Mizuno, they do customize to pretty much whatever you want. 

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1 hour ago, tlehmann said:

I just got back from visually checking out all the clubs in the new line - the Forged really do look the business.  Sounds like you like the PX 6.5.  Order those w/ 921F and you'll be good to go.  The 921F looked really good and slimmer than I expected - no wonder the fitters are saying these are the home run in the line.  Submit order!

It's nice to hear.  I'm really leaning towards pulling the trigger on the 921F's.  I get a sense of confidence (whether it's false or not) from a forgiveness stand point before even putting them into my bag.  Especially with the longer irons (5 and 4).  The Project X 6.5 shaft was pure magic in all the others, including the 919F, so I can't imagine how it wouldn't be the same in the 921F.  They all felt like butter - it's ridiculous:).

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1 hour ago, quikcolin said:

 My only concern with this is the drastic difference between the 921F lofts and the MMC lofts - they would have to be some serious loft adjustments made to blend the set....

 

I haven't hit the 921 forged enough to put an opinion down, but the MMC is easy to hit in the 4 and 5. I am about where you are at distance and scoring wise and have hit my 4 and 5 iron to the green plenty of times.  X100 DG120 shaft.  I did hit the 921 HMP and it was stupid long. I could probably hit that 5 iron 225, considering the 7-iron was going 200.  

 

I like the tighter MMC lofts: it would be nice to have a gap wedge but a T20 50 degree will blend perfectly.  

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Is there any way you could hit something beside 7-iron shots? That's one thing I miss about demo days and expos.

 

What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

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58 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I haven't hit the 921 forged enough to put an opinion down, but the MMC is easy to hit in the 4 and 5. I am about where you are at distance and scoring wise and have hit my 4 and 5 iron to the green plenty of times.  X100 DG120 shaft.  I did hit the 921 HMP and it was stupid long. I could probably hit that 5 iron 225, considering the 7-iron was going 200.  

 

I like the tighter MMC lofts: it would be nice to have a gap wedge but a T20 50 degree will blend perfectly.  

I appreciate this. Quick question, if you don’t mind my asking... what type of player are you/handicap?  I don’t play enough to carry a handicap (that’s going to change in 2021) but usually play in the low 80’s.  I don’t always “flush the shot” but would consider myself an “alright ball striker”. It’s encouraging to her you’re opinion of the long irons in the MMC... just trying to compare us ?

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Is there a reason the fitter does not have the 921 forged head?  Is he expecting to get the head in soon?  If the fitter has the 919 head I would expect that they would have the new one in time.  If it is timing then wait until he gets the head.

 

I just had a fitting and tried 7 iron heads.  I am a 14 handicap, irons are a little weak for me and hit 21% of GIR.  Anyway, to the point.  My fitter did not have the Epon AF-706 head in but had the old AF-705.  He said at the beginning that if I liked the old head he would get in the new one.  Lo and behold it was the best head along with the Taylormade P790 TI.  The 921 Hot Metal was not very good, inconsistent, but he wants me to try the 921 forged.  As soon as the Epon head is in, will get back and put all three clubs to the test.

 

A good fitter that is willing to work with you is extremely valuable.

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20 minutes ago, sniper said:

Did you asked about the lead tape and how that might affect the swing weight compared to what your order?

This is a good question, and one I left with the fitter this evening. Waiting to hear back on this. 
 

29 minutes ago, jpbova said:

Do you have the numbers from the fitting?  I try to take a mental snapshot of the numbers every time I hit a new club with emphasis on carry, spin, and descent angle 

 

I don’t, but hope they will be sent over via email, as per my conversation with him. 

 

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53 minutes ago, quikcolin said:


 

 

I don’t, but hope they will be sent over via email, as per my conversation with him. 

 

Post them when you get them. I hit the JPX forged, and I wanted to like them, but had a spin rate of 5500 and decent angle of 43. While I hit mav pro, also 31 degree 7i, with 6k spin and 48* descent angle.  Right there I know I could never choose the forged over mav pros. Mavs were longer too BTW

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24 minutes ago, Kyle M said:

You need to go to a different fitter with the actual mizuno optimizer and the 921 head that allows shaft changes. What you experienced, and hopefully didn’t have to pay for, is not a fitting. Lead tape everywhere?  Never ever heard of that during a fitting. Run, don’t walk, from that experience. 

If this was the case, then yes, OP go get fit again

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The more I think about it, you guys might be right.  The lead tape (and a substantial amount of it) is definitely not going to help the cause... now to determine if the shaft selection is viable, minus the lead tape?  The other catch I've realized is that the PX6.5 shaft I was fitted for isn't available form Muzino.  They offer the Project X LZ, but not the standard Project X - not sure how much they differ?  I guess I still have a lot of questions that need to be answered...

 

I'm warming up to the MMC irons more and more - due to the positive comments here for "like golfers" opinion on forgiveness in the longer irons...

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I wouldn't look at the lead tape as being an inherently negative or positive thing, just a variable that you need to account for. If I was striping a combo like you were and saw all that lead tape there, I would simply tell them that I needed to know how much lead tape that was, either by them pulling it off and weighing it or weighing the head and comparing the difference to the stock spec. You found what a lot of people find; stock is often too light and your ball striking and dispersion improved with more weight. Find out how much weight and factor that in to your spec'ing. 

Yes it is a bit bush league that they have tape slapped on the clubs, but who cares if you got great results? I would definitely be very leery about trusting them with regards to specs and fitting as a result, but you stumbled in to something that created a little magic, take note of it. 

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OP, get on the Mizuno shaft optimizer! Great fitting tool to get you started in the right direction. MMCs are very forgiving. I personally stop at 5 iron, hybrids next because they are so easy to hit and love the versatility! Also, Mizuno will swing weight your clubs, so no need for lead tape!

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9 hours ago, quikcolin said:

The more I think about it, you guys might be right.  The lead tape (and a substantial amount of it) is definitely not going to help the cause... now to determine if the shaft selection is viable, minus the lead tape?  The other catch I've realized is that the PX6.5 shaft I was fitted for isn't available form Muzino.  They offer the Project X LZ, but not the standard Project X - not sure how much they differ?  I guess I still have a lot of questions that need to be answered...

 

I'm warming up to the MMC irons more and more - due to the positive comments here for "like golfers" opinion on forgiveness in the longer irons...

Just as an explanation for the tape. I have a set of MP18 MMCs that I pulled the Modus3 120s out of and replaced with some Nippon NSPro 1150s (more back weighted shafts). Now I have KBS Tours 120g in there. In both cases I had to add between 6 and 10 grams of weight to the heads to bring them back into the D3 range where they started with the Modus shafts. Those reinforced tips are heavy and need to be accounted for when changing shafts.

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Most important thing that has been overlooked my most is you need the numbers.

Since you were hitting a 7 iron, we need to see spin and descent angles.  If you do not have enough spin having a 50* descent angle wont's help.  Spin is often overlooked and we all hear about people complaining about hot spots in their irons.

 

They are more than likely not hot spots (that happened to a few sets of irons when flexible face started, but no major manufacturer is gonna have that problem anymore) they are shots where before the player had enough spin that a loss of 500 or 750 from a little grass, dirt in the grooves and water(dew or something) gets in the face and they take the barely acceptable spin rate from the fairway and turn it into a flier.  Their old clubs wouldn't have flown as far since they started with more spin and they appear to be hot spots.

 

Most fitters are pushing distance and dispersion, and not factoring in spin enough with too much reliance upon descent angle to stop iron shots which leads to the above.  I know of at least 3 out of the 6 people that have been to a fitting that had this happen and while they hit more solid shots that have better left and right dispersion, their long and short dispersion has gone wonky and their handicap has actually gone up.

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On 9/17/2020 at 9:22 PM, quikcolin said:

The more I think about it, you guys might be right.  The lead tape (and a substantial amount of it) is definitely not going to help the cause... now to determine if the shaft selection is viable, minus the lead tape?  The other catch I've realized is that the PX6.5 shaft I was fitted for isn't available form Muzino.  They offer the Project X LZ, but not the standard Project X - not sure how much they differ?  I guess I still have a lot of questions that need to be answered...

 

I'm warming up to the MMC irons more and more - due to the positive comments here for "like golfers" opinion on forgiveness in the longer irons...


You’re misinformed on that one 

PX 6.5 is 100% available.

 

I think you have a lot going upstairs and a good refresh without any preconceived notions to another fitter is ideal.

Take it one step further and don’t mention you have previously been fitted or even what you have been fitted to.

The optimizer is great for narrowing down a top 4-5 shafts to try, and then your fitter if they’re solid will tweak slightly outside those recommendations if they need to.

For example C Taper 120S comes up 4th for me after PX 6.5/LZ 6.5/DG 120 X100 but we actually tried C Taper 130x to tighten up the dispersion a tad, as all the other numbers were best even though it was 4th on the list and not even in the same flex. 

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6 hours ago, therealjonzone said:


You’re misinformed on that one 

PX 6.5 is 100% available.

 

I think you have a lot going upstairs and a good refresh without any preconceived notions to another fitter is ideal.

Take it one step further and don’t mention you have previously been fitted or even what you have been fitted to.

The optimizer is great for narrowing down a top 4-5 shafts to try, and then your fitter if they’re solid will tweak slightly outside those recommendations if they need to.

For example C Taper 120S comes up 4th for me after PX 6.5/LZ 6.5/DG 120 X100 but we actually tried C Taper 130x to tighten up the dispersion a tad, as all the other numbers were best even though it was 4th on the list and not even in the same flex. 


Mizuno does not have the standard PX shaft listed as a custom option on their website.... not in Canada anyhow?  That’s why I think it’s the case. 
 

I have not been fitted before. This is my first time even being in a launch monitor.  Or speaking/hitting with a fitter. 
 

Just hoping to get dialed in with a ln ideal setup. I have a long term plan for this next set of irons 

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7 hours ago, quikcolin said:


Mizuno does not have the standard PX shaft listed as a custom option on their website.... not in Canada anyhow?  That’s why I think it’s the case. 
 

I have not been fitted before. This is my first time even being in a launch monitor.  Or speaking/hitting with a fitter. 
 

Just hoping to get dialed in with a ln ideal setup. I have a long term plan for this next set of irons 


I’m in Canada dude, 100% available.

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