716-CB upgrade to 718-AP2 or T100?

[MelloYello]

Hey guys,

 

I've been using the 716 CB for the last couple years and I'm considering whether or not transition to something else. My contact pattern across the face is good but not elite. My wear pattern on my 7-iron is spread about 1-inch across the face. That just seems a little big for a club that size and I think once I get into the longer irons I'm not really doing myself any favors. So I'm wondering whether something a little longer heal-to-toe might be a better fit (e.g. AP2). 

 

I've hit the 714 AP2 and all I remember was that it seemed a little draw-biased. The combination of increased offset and more weight in the toe seemed to want to roll the face shut. So I didn't really gain any height because all I hit were low-flighted draws. But again, I'm wondering whether the 716 CB is just a little small for my level of ball-striking. 

 

I've heard good and bad things in regards to the T100. They seem to be popular for their looks but I've also heard folks say they aren't so forgiving in comparison to the older AP2 models.

[tsecor]

The T100's are more forgiving than you would imagine.  I now play the T100-S and they are incredibly stable and the way they are weighted and the use of tungsten around the outside of cavity is impressive.  I am a former 712 CB player and im glad I made the move....these give me a bit of extra help and distance but still look like a blade at address. 

[MelloYello]

36 minutes ago, tsecor said:

The T100's are more forgiving than you would imagine.  I now play the T100-S and they are incredibly stable and the way they are weighted and the use of tungsten around the outside of cavity is impressive.  I am a former 712 CB player and im glad I made the move....these give me a bit of extra help and distance but still look like a blade at address. 

 

Is there any noticeable difference between the T100 vs the T100s aside from the loft? Like, if I bent a T100 strong would they essentially be the same aside from a slight bounce difference? 

 

What I'm wondering about is the sole. The T100 looks a lot like my CB which I'm thinking might be a smidge thin for the softer conditions here. Wondering if that older AP2-style wide sole might be more ideal. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by MelloYello

[Exactice808]

Hey! @MelloYello Either I am going to edify you, or you are going to edify me LOL.  I already have my long winded thread and posted in the other threads. I CAN personally verify, that the AP2's like to go left and long.  when I miss with the AP2s they ALWAYS go left, face shut and some times long left. Like you mention it does feel like it wants to turn over.

 

I am the stupid MB player blah blah. Compared to the MBs there is offset.  Noticeable yes, but nothing that bothers me in comparison to say an SGI, so it does not affect or turn me off.  I am curious to know if that little offset though, is helping the left bias tendencies of the club and also the weight/design.

I want to to try and move away from MB's if equitable, and @tsecor mentioned the T100(s). I assumed these to be the AP2 next gen.  but as I have had my concerns about the AP2s I am afraid that the T100 would have the same issues?  Hollow cavity for distance inconsistencies and the left bias.

You coming from CB's with them being as compact, minimal offset, weak lofts, solid design(not hollow) is it a learning curve that is worth it? this is my dilemma and curious how you felt about that transition? As to be fair there is a little learning curve I doubt it would be a straight fit?

[Chubbydog]

I've still got a set of 716 CB/MB combo set.  Can't get rid of it, because they are so nice.  I then had the 718 AP2's, and have always regretted selling them.  Been playing Mizuno for the last year or so with a quick experiment with the T200's.  I just couldn't get a long with those, as they didn't feel right to me.  Too clicky, and I'd get that flyer every once in a while.  Went back to Mizuno, and just wanted something new last week.  Tried the 921's, but they didn't really feel any different than my 919's, so I'm now back to Titleist.  The T100s, and they feel amazing.  Only got 3 rounds so far with them, but they don't wanna hook.  At least for me.  These look like the CB's standing over them, but have the forgiveness of the AP2's. I'm hitting the 6.0 PX LZ shaft, and it launches pretty high.  I'm still able to work the ball either way though.  If you get the strong model, they are not just the regular T100 bent 2* strong.  They are a totally different club.  You still get the same turf interaction, and bounce.  They are a good club longer than the CB's for me.  My CB's were about the same as my Mizuno 919T's.  IMO, going from the CB's to the T100's is a big improvement.  You wouldn't regret it.  I tried the regular, and the strong model, and ended up buying the s model.  Mainly to get a little extra distance, and have the newest model.  They both felt the same, and looked the same. 

 

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, Chubbydog said:

I've still got a set of 716 CB/MB combo set.  Can't get rid of it, because they are so nice.  I then had the 718 AP2's, and have always regretted selling them.  Been playing Mizuno for the last year or so with a quick experiment with the T200's.  I just couldn't get a long with those, as they didn't feel right to me.  Too clicky, and I'd get that flyer every once in a while.  Went back to Mizuno, and just wanted something new last week.  Tried the 921's, but they didn't really feel any different than my 919's, so I'm now back to Titleist.  The T100s, and they feel amazing.  Only got 3 rounds so far with them, but they don't wanna hook.  At least for me.  These look like the CB's standing over them, but have the forgiveness of the AP2's. I'm hitting the 6.0 PX LZ shaft, and it launches pretty high.  I'm still able to work the ball either way though.  If you get the strong model, they are not just the regular T100 bent 2* strong.  They are a totally different club.  You still get the same turf interaction, and bounce.  They are a good club longer than the CB's for me.  My CB's were about the same as my Mizuno 919T's.  IMO, going from the CB's to the T100's is a big improvement.  You wouldn't regret it.  I tried the regular, and the strong model, and ended up buying the s model.  Mainly to get a little extra distance, and have the newest model.  They both felt the same, and looked the same. 

 

 

In your view do the stronger lofts of the T100S make the ball-flight any lower versus the normal T100? 

 

I remember feeling with the 714 AP2 that the flight kind of had a ceiling. I always felt I could hit something like an MB a little higher if I absolutely wanted to. I just don't want to end up with a club that produces and overly flat trajectory. 

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, Exactice808 said:

Hey! @MelloYello Either I am going to edify you, or you are going to edify me LOL.  I already have my long winded thread and posted in the other threads. I CAN personally verify, that the AP2's like to go left and long.  when I miss with the AP2s they ALWAYS go left, face shut and some times long left. Like you mention it does feel like it wants to turn over.

 

I am the stupid MB player blah blah. Compared to the MBs there is offset.  Noticeable yes, but nothing that bothers me in comparison to say an SGI, so it does not affect or turn me off.  I am curious to know if that little offset though, is helping the left bias tendencies of the club and also the weight/design.

I want to to try and move away from MB's if equitable, and @tsecor mentioned the T100(s). I assumed these to be the AP2 next gen.  but as I have had my concerns about the AP2s I am afraid that the T100 would have the same issues?  Hollow cavity for distance inconsistencies and the left bias.

You coming from CB's with them being as compact, minimal offset, weak lofts, solid design(not hollow) is it a learning curve that is worth it? this is my dilemma and curious how you felt about that transition? As to be fair there is a little learning curve I doubt it would be a straight fit?

 

I've held the T100 in my hand and it looked like a blade as much as my CB does. The look of the T100 is not the problem if you want clean and tidy. I think if anything it's about whether they provide as much forgiveness as people are used to with the AP2. 

 

I've heard some say yes and some say no. I think it might depend on what things people are expecting. It's almost like the T100 is an AP2 with more input from the Tour. Based on the looks, I'm not surprised guys are hopping up and down. It looks great. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by MelloYello

[mylesb21]

I have played 714CB & 716CB irons for 6 years.  I've tried "upgrading" to more forgiving irons over the past several seasons.  Recently, I fit myself for a set of P760 and T100 irons.  In both cases, I struggled with the slightly wider sole.  The P760's felt almost as soft as the 716CB's, but the thicker topline, wider sole and increased offset didn't work for me. 

 

I was very optimistic regarding the T100's. I loved the look at address - the thin topline, minimal offset and overall appearance was just what I wanted.  Unfortunately, they weren't nearly as soft as my CB's, and I didn't pickup any increase in distance.  Mishits weren't much more forgiving than my current clubs, and I personally found the turf interaction was not quite as deep as I prefer. For the $950 I decided it wasn't worth the money and I ended up selling them. 

[golfandtennisfan]

MelloYellow, I would suggest something else over the ap2/t100 as in my book the cbs are barely any harder to hit than the two aforementioned. Some I would try are 919 or the new 921 mizuno forged, cally mavrik pro or apex or maybe taylormade 790. They are all excellent but as already mentioned, can you take playing a bit bigger head/thicker top line? Only you can answer that one. Good luck. 

[Chubbydog]

On 9/18/2020 at 3:27 PM, MelloYello said:

 

In your view do the stronger lofts of the T100S make the ball-flight any lower versus the normal T100? 

 

I remember feeling with the 714 AP2 that the flight kind of had a ceiling. I always felt I could hit something like an MB a little higher if I absolutely wanted to. I just don't want to end up with a club that produces and overly flat trajectory. 

I feel like the T100S with the PX LZ shaft launches plenty high.  I would think it's pretty close to the T100.  Maybe a tad lower, since you are a couple degrees lower loft.  I loved the AP2's, and think they may have been a bit more forgiving, but they don't look quite as good at address if you ask me.  I also hooked them more than the T100s.  The T100s, are almost anti hook for my swing. 

 

[Red4282]

On 9/18/2020 at 4:30 PM, MelloYello said:

 

I've held the T100 in my hand and it looked like a blade as much as my CB does. The look of the T100 is not the problem if you want clean and tidy. I think if anything it's about whether they provide as much forgiveness as people are used to with the AP2. 

 

I've heard some say yes and some say no. I think it might depend on what things people are expecting. It's almost like the T100 is an AP2 with more input from the Tour. Based on the looks, I'm not surprised guys are hopping up and down. It looks great. 

The t100s is is exactly the same iron just 2 degrees less. Just think of it as a gapping option with your set. Im around a scratch and i play a t100 4 iron and the 620 cbs in 5-pw. The t100s are a great in between club in my opinion.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Red4282

[Seidinho]

If you can handle the conventional lofts, would go with the AP2s. More forgiving than T100, with similar feel and consistency. The AP2s are a great, forgiving players iron with skim profile and slim sole. Still have my 710s but regret selling the 718s with the AMT white shafts. 

[MelloYello]

Well, I actually ended up purchasing a set of Srixon z785 irons. A bunch of really good players at my club happen to play them and I was able to demo both the z785 and the z-forged (blade) and both were outstanding in terms of feel. I LOVE the longer blade length and the slightly wider sole. These are exactly what I was looking for. The feel was also better than my 716 CB, too. 

 

Thanks for all the input though guys. I was very close to jumping on some AP2 / T100 sets. 

 

Interesting to note the lofts on these z785 irons versus a normal MB/CB:

 

21 - 24 - 27 - 31 - 35 - 29 - 43 - 47

20 - 22 - 25 - 28 - 32 - 36 - 41 - 46

 

Way stronger in the mid-irons but comparable on the Pw. Very unique. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by MelloYello

[sanjaygolf]

On 9/18/2020 at 3:19 PM, MelloYello said:

 

Is there any noticeable difference between the T100 vs the T100s aside from the loft? Like, if I bent a T100 strong would they essentially be the same aside from a slight bounce difference? 

 

What I'm wondering about is the sole. The T100 looks a lot like my CB which I'm thinking might be a smidge thin for the softer conditions here. Wondering if that older AP2-style wide sole might be more ideal. 

 

The T100S isn't just the T100 bent 2* strong. There's weight in the toe and it helps to reduce any draws or hooks. IMO, unless you're close to tour-level compression and launch the T100S is the much better play. That being said, they are on the small side as well and if you're looking for a touch more forgiveness and aren't married to Titleist you could look at the Srixon Z785 or Mizuno 921 Forged. 

[MelloYello]

1 minute ago, sanjaygolf said:

 

The T100S isn't just the T100 bent 2* strong. There's weight in the toe and it helps to reduce any draws or hooks. IMO, unless you're close to tour-level compression and launch the T100S is the much better play. That being said, they are on the small side as well and if you're looking for a touch more forgiveness and aren't married to Titleist you could look at the Srixon Z785 or Mizuno 921 Forged. 

 

Haha, read my post just above yours!

[Red4282]

3 hours ago, sanjaygolf said:

 

The T100S isn't just the T100 bent 2* strong. There's weight in the toe and it helps to reduce any draws or hooks. IMO, unless you're close to tour-level compression and launch the T100S is the much better play. That being said, they are on the small side as well and if you're looking for a touch more forgiveness and aren't married to Titleist you could look at the Srixon Z785 or Mizuno 921 Forged. 

Sigh, where does this misinformation come from..?

[sanjaygolf]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Sigh, where does this misinformation come from..?

I cant confirm it's weight in the toe that allows it to reduce draws but the proof is in the pudding. It's not hard to see the difference when hitting them side by side especially if you draw the ball.

[Red4282]

2 minutes ago, sanjaygolf said:

I cant confirm it's weight in the toe that allows it to reduce draws but the proof is in the pudding. It's not hard to see the difference when hitting them side by side especially if you draw the ball.

Well there may have been another factor ar play when you hit those because both the t100 and the t100s have tungsten weight in the toe and heel, from 3 iron-7 iron. None in 8-pw. They also have the same moi, and c-dim, which means they (and even titleist says so) are the same club, one is just 2 degrees stronger.

[sanjaygolf]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Well there may have been another factor ar play when you hit those because both the t100 and the t100s have tungsten weight in the toe and heel, from 3 iron-7 iron. None in 8-pw. They also have the same moi, and c-dim, which means they (and even titleist says so) are the same club, one is just 2 degrees stronger.

I cant confirm what is allowing the T100S to reduce draws compared to the T100 for me but again it's evident. TXG have their video which displays it and I saw it in my fitting at True spec.

[tsecor]

On 9/18/2020 at 3:19 PM, MelloYello said:

 

Is there any noticeable difference between the T100 vs the T100s aside from the loft? Like, if I bent a T100 strong would they essentially be the same aside from a slight bounce difference? 

 

What I'm wondering about is the sole. The T100 looks a lot like my CB which I'm thinking might be a smidge thin for the softer conditions here. Wondering if that older AP2-style wide sole might be more ideal. 

Many people claim the T100-S is just a bent T100....that couldnt be further from the truth....the T100-S is a redesign and in order to keep the bounce correct, that moved weighting aound and made the leading edge softer...of course the lofts are a bit stronger, but its a great club.....the sole is thin, but in any rough, the club make its through pretty good.

[tsecor]

On 9/18/2020 at 3:46 PM, Exactice808 said:

Hey! @MelloYello Either I am going to edify you, or you are going to edify me LOL.  I already have my long winded thread and posted in the other threads. I CAN personally verify, that the AP2's like to go left and long.  when I miss with the AP2s they ALWAYS go left, face shut and some times long left. Like you mention it does feel like it wants to turn over.

 

I am the stupid MB player blah blah. Compared to the MBs there is offset.  Noticeable yes, but nothing that bothers me in comparison to say an SGI, so it does not affect or turn me off.  I am curious to know if that little offset though, is helping the left bias tendencies of the club and also the weight/design.

I want to to try and move away from MB's if equitable, and @tsecor mentioned the T100(s). I assumed these to be the AP2 next gen.  but as I have had my concerns about the AP2s I am afraid that the T100 would have the same issues?  Hollow cavity for distance inconsistencies and the left bias.

You coming from CB's with them being as compact, minimal offset, weak lofts, solid design(not hollow) is it a learning curve that is worth it? this is my dilemma and curious how you felt about that transition? As to be fair there is a little learning curve I doubt it would be a straight fit?

its pretty seamless moving to the T100-S...less offset than the AP2, and its noticeable, but left biased is NOT an issue. And trust me, my miss is ALWAYS a pull. 

[jons1]

T100.  Great set of irons in every way.