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DeChambeau bad for the game?


Fairway14

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To say gaining distance is not relevant to helping amateur golfers improve is not accurate at all. It's completely relevant, particularly for those who have small angular deviation in their drives.

 

It's actually been shown that 20 yards of extra distance is more valuable to higher scorers.

 

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/training-for-distance-or-direction/

 

Being closer to the hole is, on average, more advantageous.

Edited by rawdog
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6 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Well decorated? Hmm. Did he receive the Wedge Star with V device for bravery on the range? Or an Air Medal for airing a ball over a green? Or how about a Ranger tab for riding in a golf cart randomly around a golf course, waving at people for no reason instead of doing anything constructive like fixing ball marks on a green?

 

Sorry, I have no filter today...

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When Daly came out and shocked the golf world as a last minute, drove all night to get there alternate, and won the PGA with "Grip it and rip it", people went nuts. There was similar talk from the pundits and the golf world was consumed. From what I remember, a great majority of golfers did not go out to their local barbers and start sporting mullets or overswinging so they could see the toe of their wedge in their backswing.

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3 minutes ago, tannyhoban said:

Breed is the sham-wow guy gone golf instructor. Which is fine, it's his schlock . 
 

As for Bryson he is a new breed of golfer with a different approach. It's inevitable the talking heads will amp that.


How can that be bad for golf?

 

What Bryson's doing is good for his career, no doubt about it. The negative aspect is that amateurs, and some pros , may pursue Bryson's strategy and find same harmful to their game.

Last night was hours of Golf Channel commentary about distance, bomb and gauge etc...Amateurs hear that and (mistakenly) think driver off every tee box is the best way to play golf. But time proven traditional golf instruction advocates a player use off the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes whichever club he/she can hit consistently straight. For beginners that may be a 7-iron, for intermediate players that may be a 5-iron or hybrid. 

I am confident that if DeChambeau (or other Tour pro) was at this forum he would advise the amateur spraying driver every hole to club down to an iron (or whichever club can consistently find the fairway). This is good sense golf for amateurs. The goal is to be hitting fairways and greens.

 

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47 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

Luke List is not a short hitter. I think he is usually among the leaders for Tour player average driving distance.

Jack Nicklaus wrote that he played his career going at the ball about 75% and very rarely went up above 90%.

Maybe, just maybe, Jack was wrong? I know that’s heresy-hang him!  But for the 80’s and 90’s shooters the message is the same. But remember...to hit it further you MUST be hitting the center of the club face. Not just swing harder. 
 The way the game used to be played is like 3 yards and a cloud of dust. It is the game strategy of a bygone era. And the reason is simple...it was incorrect to assume it was the best way to low scores. 

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54 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

Luke List is not a short hitter. I think he is usually among the leaders for Tour player average driving distance.

Jack Nicklaus wrote that he played his career going at the ball about 75% and very rarely went up above 90%.

Oops, double post.

Edited by Shilgy
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1 minute ago, Fairway14 said:

 

What Bryson's doing is good for his career, no doubt about it. The negative aspect is that amateurs, and some pros , may pursue Bryson's strategy and find same harmful to their game.

Last night was hours of Golf Channel commentary about distance, bomb and gauge etc...Amateurs hear that and (mistakenly) think driver off every tee box is the best way to play golf. But time proven traditional golf instruction advocates a player use off the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes whichever club he/she can hit consistently straight. For beginners that may be a 7-iron, for intermediate players that may be a 5-iron or hybrid. 

I am confident that if DeChambeau (or other Tour pro) was at this forum he would advise the amateur spraying driver every hole to club down to an iron (or whichever club can consistently find the fairway). This is good sense golf for amateurs. The goal is to be hitting fairways and greens.

 

False. Adult amateurs have day jobs and that is still the vast majority  in that demographic. Only way this takes hold is at jr. level and I don't see it happening. Bryson literally dedicated entire days every day for months with trainers and instructors to get to now.

 

Ain't nobody got time for that.

?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Maybe, just maybe, Jack was wrong? I know that’s heresy-hang him!  But for the 80’s and 90’s shooters the message is the same. But remember...to hit it further you MUST be hitting the center of the club face. Not just swing harder. 
 The way the game used to be played is like 3 yards and a cloud of dust. It is the game strategy of a bygone era. And the reason is simple...it was incorrect to assume it was the best way to low scores. 

 

The game is the same today as it was 100 years ago. Specifically, if a player does not get the ball up and down when he/she misses a green that player will shoot above par..

If you visit a muni course this afternoon you will see players spraying tee shots left and right, missing greens from 110 yards, running chip shots 20 feet past the hole etc...

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1 minute ago, Fairway14 said:

If you visit a muni course this afternoon you will see players spraying tee shots left and right, missing greens from 110 yards, running chip shots 20 feet past the hole etc...

Pretty sure that's been the case since before BD was in diapers.  If an 80's-90's player is silly enough to think they can pattern their game after a pro, they'll find out soon enough on their own that they can't.  Now, if they're just having fun and want to just smoke that one drive of the day down the middle and that's how they entertain themselves, so be it.  

 

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1 minute ago, Kilo1545 said:

I've never understood being upset over the competition doing what I think is wrong.  If bomb and gouge is not the right way to go about it, and my fairways-and-greens style IS (or vice versa), then why would I be upset if everyone else puts themselves at a disadvantage relative to me?

 

 

My commentary is born from the recent trend of "growing the game" discussions. I believe organizations proclaiming a desire to grow the game, such as the USGA, R&A, PGA of America, Golf Channel, major equipment companies etc... should send a constructive message.

But that's not happening. For example, The USGA and PGA began hosting Majors at public courses, which effectively raised the daily greens fees of those course by multi hundred percent. major equipment companies began misinforming consumers that "getting fit for clubs" is essential to shooting lower scores, golf media talking heads trot out little else but shot distance nonsense etc... None of the above is helpful towards "growing the game".

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20 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

The game is the same today as it was 100 years ago. Specifically, if a player does not get the ball up and down when he/she misses a green that player will shoot above par..

If you visit a muni course this afternoon you will see players spraying tee shots left and right, missing greens from 110 yards, running chip shots 20 feet past the hole etc...

And nothing any commentator says or player they try to emulate will change that. 

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17 minutes ago, Kilo1545 said:

I've never understood being upset over the competition doing what I think is wrong.  If bomb and gouge is not the right way to go about it, and my fairways-and-greens style IS (or vice versa), then why would I be upset if everyone else puts themselves at a disadvantage relative to me?

 

 

Nailed it

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1 hour ago, Soloman1 said:

Wait, what about all of the 4 handicaps who hit 300+ yards drives?

fairway14 nailed it, 4 caps really need more from the commentators in order to beat the top 50 lpga players

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2 minutes ago, Kilo1545 said:

 

Well, LPGA Players >>> Male Amateurs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i was being. . . it was a. . . . but. . . . oh nevermind. 

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2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

I've got nothing personal against DeChambeau but his strategy of trying for maximum distance has caused the golf media to talk of little else, and this is bad for the game.

Specifically, amateurs with a scoring average higher than 72 should focus their practice on hitting fairways and greens, sharpening their short game etc...

I understand the talking heads on Golf Channel need to tell the story of how DeChambeau or Wolff are using distance to help them shoot lower scores, but that is not relevant to the game of an amateur who is trying to shoot par , break 80, 90, or 100.


For a talented player, distance is a key differentiator from other talented players.

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1 minute ago, Lincoln_Arcadia said:


For a talented player, distance is a key differentiator from other talented players.

 

What criteria defines a "talented player"?

For example, every D1 college team, State Am, Club Pro association event, min Tour around the world etc... is filled with players who can stripe long solid 5-irons and drivers all day long , every day. Consistently getting the ball from tee to green is relatively easy, several thousand players can do that.

Shot making from inside 100 yards, and especially putting , are the skills that separate the thousands from the few hundred Tour players. 

 

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8 minutes ago, PowderedToastMan said:

Assuming Luke actually said this...

This is a weird way of saying

a) Bryson can hit it straighter than I can when swinging fast

b) Bryson is a better all-around player than me

c) Bryson is better out of the rough than me

d) All of the above 

 

I don’t care that guys like Finau and List think they can hit it further than Bryson. Those guys can’t keep their drives on the planet when they swing all out. They can’t keep their tour cards when they swing all out. Bryson can go over 190 mph ballspeed and win tournaments. It sounds like Luke’s ego can’t stand that Bryson is longer and better than him. 

 

As far as I know Luke List (or any other Tour pro) does not have any resentment for DeChambeau. From their junior golf days onward Tour pros are accustomed to playing with guys who hit it longer, shorter, the same distance etc... as they do. It's just part of the game. A major part of top level golf is knowing one's own game strengths and weaknesses and playing the golf course accordingly.

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7 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

What criteria defines a "talented player"?

For example, every D1 college team, State Am, Club Pro association event, min Tour around the world etc... is filled with players who can stripe long solid 5-irons and drivers all day long , every day. Consistently getting the ball from tee to green is relatively easy, several thousand players can do that.

Shot making from inside 100 yards, and especially putting , are the skills that separate the thousands from the few hundred Tour players. 

 

I would strongly urge you to look at the PGA tour stats and the different strokes gained categories.  The long game is where the top players are able to gain the most strokes on the field. 
For example...in 2019(the last full season) Rory gained more strokes with tee shots alone than did the top putter. AND...as for what is more important? Rory is Rory and the top SG putter was Denny McCarthy. Aaron Baddeley is year in year out one,of the top putters...and cannot keep his card.

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7 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

 DeChambeau was a damn good player before gaining weight- everybody seems to forget that

   Big difference is his quality putting and focus

      Distance alone doesn't do it-  where is DJ or Bubba this week ? I am sure they hit some big drives

    

   

Yes, DeChambeau struggled with the side saddle putting style he tried for awhile. The arm lock technique he's been using recently has helped him shoot lower scores.

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23 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

What criteria defines a "talented player"?

For example, every D1 college team, State Am, Club Pro association event, min Tour around the world etc... is filled with players who can stripe long solid 5-irons and drivers all day long , every day. Consistently getting the ball from tee to green is relatively easy, several thousand players can do that.

Shot making from inside 100 yards, and especially putting , are the skills that separate the thousands from the few hundred Tour players. 

 


Certainly they count as talented.

 

Someone like a 4-8 handicap I’d categorize as “not as talented” Lol

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26 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I would strongly urge you to look at the PGA tour stats and the different strokes gained categories.  The long game is where the top players are able to gain the most strokes on the field. 
For example...in 2019(the last full season) Rory gained more strokes with tee shots alone than did the top putter. AND...as for what is more important? Rory is Rory and the top SG putter was Denny McCarthy. Aaron Baddeley is year in year out one,of the top putters...and cannot keep his card.

 

"Strokes gained" implies that some extra tee ball distance may help a Tour player win an event, but that is within the context of a Tour player tournament  field, where every single player  has a sensational short game.

This thread topic is about how a focus on distance may be detrimental to an amateur players game." Trotting out "strokes gained" is not relevant to the amateur game, where players miss greens from 120 yards, blade bunker shots, leave chips 20 feet from the hole , often three putt etc...

Edited by Fairway14

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