Jaime Diaz on Bryson

[drbonesvt]

13 hours ago, ATLgopher said:

Considering Rory out drove him. I’m interested to hear what “proofing” they are proposing 

Rors I believe took issue with the arm lock , which I agree is an advantage 

[J_Tizzle]

Yeah I love what BDC does and there has been lots of talk of "he doesn't drive it all that much farther than other guys", but I think a big telling point was he was CARRYING the ball 320+, which is a huge advantage on a course like this where the ball just immediately dies in the rough.  If he wanted to get more roll I'm sure he could, but the carry is so important on a course like that.  

 

As for the putting, it looks so rigid, but you cannot deny there is a ton of touch in that stroke.  I always tell myself just look at these guys who really putt well after changing how they putt entirely.  BDC and Webb come to mind.  Sometimes just a total refresh to the system can work wonders.  I mean it did with my switch from conventional to belly putting, then when they took that away (still bitter), from conventional to side saddle.

[ExTrumpet]

Just now, drbonesvt said:

Rors I believe took issue with the arm lock , which I agree is an advantage 

 

If it was an advantage everyone would be doing it.  For some, perhaps it is an advantage--but probably a lot less than drawing a line on the ball or having the outline of 2 balls inline on the top of a putter.

 

What works for some doesn't work as well for others.  

 

 

[J_Tizzle]

Just now, ExTrumpet said:

 

If it was an advantage everyone would be doing it.  For some, perhaps it is an advantage--but probably a lot less than drawing a line on the ball or having the outline of 2 balls inline on the top of a putter.

 

What works for some doesn't work as well for others.  

 

 

I can second this, armlocking is terrible (for me).  

[miamistomp]

 Perfectly legal to arm lock

    How Langer gets away with his stroke amazes me

[drbonesvt]

Just now, ExTrumpet said:

 

If it was an advantage everyone would be doing it.  For some, perhaps it is an advantage--but probably a lot less than drawing a line on the ball or having the outline of 2 balls inline on the top of a putter.

 

What works for some doesn't work as well for others.  

 

 

just my opinion 
 

Arm lock Makes a marginal putter better.   But doesn’t make that group to a tiger tier putter.
 

The lines on the balls are ridiculous also , I watched  Christie Kerr take 4 tries on the green to lone that damn thing up. 
 

Arm lock , physics, anytime you anchor(against the arm) a lever (the putter ) to a more stable body (arm to the body) , you get a more stable lever vs free lever.  

But it’s the USGA’s fault for a poorly written rule . 

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, Philomathesq said:

Let me start by saying "Go Blue."

 

I can't find a video of McIlroy's interview (and I do think the video is better than the transcript because you can see his body language), but here are a bunch of quotes he made during his interview. To me (and I realize how one interprets McIlroy's interview will vary greatly by person), he seemed like a sore loser and took several digs at Bryson. He repeated, multiple times, that Bryson is "taking advantage" of the game right now, intimating that Bryson is doing something unsavory in order to gain an advantage. I don't see that to be the case. I see a guy (Bryson) who is willing to put in more work than others in order to pursue a path he thinks will work best. There is nothing stopping any other player from doing exactly what Bryson has done, except for maybe gumption--which many players lack. In my opinion, Rory seemed like a guy who wants the rules to be changed in order to prevent Bryson from being better than everyone else (which I find to be an odd sentiment given that Bryson hasn't been better than everyone else routinely).

 

Rory Quotes

 

"So I think — about the guy, I think it’s brilliant, but I think he’s taken advantage of where the game is at the minute,” Rory McIlroy said. “Look, again, whether that’s good or bad, but it’s just the way it is."

 

“I don’t really know what to say because that’s just the complete opposite of what you think a U.S. Open champion does,” he said of DeChambeau. “Look, he’s found a way to do it. Whether that’s good or bad for the game, I don’t know, but it’s just — it’s not the way I saw this golf course being played or this tournament being played. It’s kind of hard to really wrap my head around it.”

 

“With the way [DeChambeau] approaches it, with the arm-lock putting, with everything, it’s just where the game’s at right now,” he said. “I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. He’s just taking advantage of what we have right now.”

 

Maybe it's just me, but I read those quotes as coming from someone who is bitter and is trying to minimize Bryson's accomplishment.

 

Absolutely could be taken that way, but “brilliant” was his first reaction and my comments were directed at the OP who was suggesting Rory wanted to Bryson proof golf courses, which is false. 
 

Somebody on GC rightly pointed out that Bryson was right at the same number of fairways hit as Rory, when Rory won going away. 
 

They wanted him to make more out of it and he seemed reluctant to take the bait IMO and seemed to be phrasing his thoughts in terms of the bigger issue without taking anything away from Bryson, again IMO. 
 

But it all sounded awkward and he looked really uncomfortable so who knows. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, drbonesvt said:

just my opinion 
 

Arm lock Makes a marginal putter better.   But doesn’t make that group to a tiger tier putter.
 

The lines on the balls are ridiculous also , I watched  Christie Kerr take 4 tries on the green to lone that damn thing up. 
 

Arm lock , physics, anytime you anchor(against the arm) a lever (the putter ) to a more stable body (arm to the body) , you get a more stable lever vs free lever.  

But it’s the USGA’s fault for a poorly written rule . 

Dare you to tell her to hurry up! ?

[Skhacker]

Bryson has an all around game so hard to "Bryson Proof" anything.  How about Rory and everybody else get better?  Rory "Rory proofs" most courses with his putting.  

Nobody cares.  Work harder.

[drbonesvt]

46 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Dare you to tell her to hurry up! ?

Oh she would not take kindly too it ??

[ChaosTheory]

2 hours ago, NevinW said:

All I know is that I used to be a member of a club where BD won a tournament.  I was told by someone high up in the club that no player treated the staff at the club better for the whole week than BD did.  No one.  That tells me a lot about his character when no one is looking.  We sometimes judge people on these websites based on very small snippits of behavior while on TV or based on social media or reporters comments.  That often doesn't tell the whole story.  

 

I don't think regular people like us truly appreciate the pressure these golfers put on themselves.  We've all seen (or been) the person slamming clubs, can't talk to them until they calm down ("Leave me alone!"), etc. etc.   Just imagine if your livelihood was on the line, and you might be on camera and/or microphone at any moment you are at the course.   So the guy breaks a little during a bad situation and says something stupid at a camera man.  It's got to be tough out there, and many of us would be hard-pressed to navigate it cleanly ourselves.

[brutus27]

16 hours ago, OgeecheeMac1 said:

There seems to be two reactions to Bryson. Diaz and Rory are not impressed. Everyone else is fine with it. They want courses “Bryson proofed”. Reminds me of Tiger.

Diaz is a tiGer lover. When tiger was overpowering courses, Diaz was impressed.

[FakeClubPro]

16 hours ago, ATLgopher said:

Considering Rory out drove him. I’m interested to hear what “proofing” they are proposing 

Exactly.  Rory is longer but something must be done to stop Bryson.

 

The course was a brutal and one guy had the power, the short game touch and putting.  Bryson figured it out.  Young young Matt Wolff came the closest.  His performance was impressive. 

 

Some of guys are dumbfounded at what Bryson did.  I like Rory but he just did not play well this weekend.

[NevinW]

2 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

 

I don't think regular people like us truly appreciate the pressure these golfers put on themselves.  We've all seen (or been) the person slamming clubs, can't talk to them until they calm down ("Leave me alone!"), etc. etc.   Just imagine if your livelihood was on the line, and you might be on camera and/or microphone at any moment you are at the course.   So the guy breaks a little during a bad situation and says something stupid at a camera man.  It's got to be tough out there, and many of us would be hard-pressed to navigate it cleanly ourselves.

I got to know Mike Reid a bit when I played golf with him in college.  He may be the most mild mannered golfer I have known.  Many many years (25+) later I was following him with my son at a minor tournament and one of his relatives and I started talking.  He thought it would be great for my son to meet him.  Very shortly after he finished, the relative was going to bring us up to him to talk, however, he was really upset about making bogey on the final two holes. Before he turned around to meet us, he proceeds to kick the cr@p out of his golf bag in a complete rage.  His relative calls his name and he turns around and sees the two of us.  I was extremely impressed how he forced the rage down, calmed himself and he proceeded to have a nice conversation with my son.  Unfortunately my son was more impressed with seeing him kick his bag than talking with him.  You are completely correct, they are under enormous stress, continually under a spotlight, and under the right circumstances can behave less than perfectly.  Make one mistake and these days, no one will ever forget it.  

[Hawkeye77]

18 hours ago, ATLgopher said:

Considering Rory out drove him. I’m interested to hear what “proofing” they are proposing 

 

Neither of them were proposing anything.

 

The OP totally made it up.

[Hawkeye77]

4 minutes ago, NevinW said:

I got to know Mike Reid a bit when I played golf with him in college.  He may be the most mild mannered golfer I have known.  Many many years (25+) later I was following him with my son at a minor tournament and one of his relatives and I started talking.  He thought it would be great for my son to meet him.  Very shortly after he finished, the relative was going to bring us up to him to talk, however, he was really upset about making bogey on the final two holes. Before he turned around to meet us, he proceeds to kick the cr@p out of his golf bag in a complete rage.  His relative calls his name and he turns around and sees the two of us.  I was extremely impressed how he forced the rage down, calmed himself and he proceeded to have a nice conversation with my son.  Unfortunately my son was more impressed with seeing him kick his bag than talking with him.  You are completely correct, they are under enormous stress, continually under a spotlight, and under the right circumstances can behave less than perfectly.  Make one mistake and these days, no one will ever forget it.  

 

I'd pay money to see Radar kick his golf bag now! LOL!

[ebk]

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it seems to me that Bryson has gone about improving his scores/wins in a way he devised, stuck to and is comfortable doing.  Good on him.

 

He has had some good results.  Good on him.

 

He's way early in his career - too early in my opinion for anyone to think he has a sustainable unfair advantage over the other guys.  And certainly too soon to say rules, etc. should be changed.

 

I'm old enough to remember watching JWN blow it so far past guys that it was a joke (Jack was incredibly long compared to his peers, especially since he was also in the fairway a lot.  But JWN also was one of the best ever with long irons, and he putted pretty well when he had to make one.

 

I also seem to remember a lot of guys having trouble at Firestone - hard to gouge out of the rough when you're blocked by trees.

 

We'll see what happens, but I have to say I admire what and how Bryson has done what he has done so far.  I also appreciate his coming from a less than wealthy family and working his Word not allowed off to get where he is at the moment.

 

But I also think there are a bunch of 20-24 year olds  who will be joining the Tour and bombing it out there (there are already a couple) and making 330 look like normal.  It happened before, albeit it was a bunch of guys who make 300 look like normal (most everyone out there now).

[OrangeGravy]

On 9/21/2020 at 4:59 AM, MtlJeff said:

 

I don't want to sidetrack the thread but i don't really agree. I could definitely see the Bird-Magic 80's being positioned as peak basketball. Those were two teams stacked with HOF players who knew each other well and passed well. But the 90's and early 2000's was awful. Dump into post, watch anchorman style brawl break out. It was a bunch of power forwards saying "Let's go over the ground rules: No touching of the hair or face....now let's do this!"

 

If it wasn't for MJ we would have had 2 decades of terrible basketball. I'd dare you to go watch Rockets/Knicks if i wasn't worried you might jump off your roof

The NBA has been dead to since they stole my Sonics

[MtlJeff]

31 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

The NBA has been dead to since they stole my Sonics

 

Fair enough.  The mid 90s Sonics were my favorite team ever. I was 16-17 when they were at their peak. Kemp, Payton, Hawkins, Schrempf, Perkins, Mcmillan....loved watching them 

[OrangeGravy]

3 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Fair enough.  The mid 90s Sonics were my favorite team ever. I was 16-17 when they were at their peak. Kemp, Payton, Hawkins, Schrempf, Perkins, Mcmillan....loved watching them 

Perkins was my favorite. When he hit a lot of 3s, my friends and I would always say it looked like he got his dosage right pre-game. He always looked stoned out of his mind

[JDCON]

On 9/21/2020 at 6:42 AM, driveandputtmachine said:

   If the armlock was so much better (same could be said for belly and chest anchored long putters) then everyone would use them.  Why they were banned or why people want to ban armlock is beyond me.

I suspect it’s because the people behind the bans are neither clever nor creative.

[m d g]

On 9/20/2020 at 7:31 PM, ChrisSP said:

 

I don't get the hate. The guy picked a path he believes in and he's putting in the work and getting results. Most people who take that approach at anything in life are applauded for it.

 

I just hope that he enjoys himself tonight - maybe snort some A1 sauce off a Morton's waitress while chugging protein shakes.

 

You do you Bryson!. 

I think the key phrase here is 'putting in the work.' Yes, all of these guys work hard, but some work harder than others and some have more natural talent than others.

I believe Tiger and Jack could have won ten majors each just falling out of bed. BDC isn't in their league talent-wise but he's no slouch either.

As for putting, I think he is on to something...if he gets a solid read on a line, the 'locked arm' approach keeps the face square.

It's not like everybody else is frozen in amber with their swings and strategy...adapt or don't.

[driveandputtmachine]

On 9/21/2020 at 2:53 PM, FakeClubPro said:

Exactly.  Rory is longer but something must be done to stop Bryson.

 

The course was a brutal and one guy had the power, the short game touch and putting.  Bryson figured it out.  Young young Matt Wolff came the closest.  His performance was impressive. 

 

Some of guys are dumbfounded at what Bryson did.  I like Rory but he just did not play well this weekend.

  Bryson has a distinct advantage in my eyes to playing out of the rough with his irons.  He is strong, not just fast, so he can dig the club down after them.  I play longer short irons and I am pretty steep with them, I am steeper with my mid and long irons as well(long irons for me are shorter) therefore less time interacting with the grass to catch piles of fliers.  Bryson hits it long, but other guys are longer, we watched Wolff hit it past him numerous times and as it was pointed out Rory averaged longer off the tee.

 

Speed (JT, Rory and some of the other smaller guys that hit it far) are at a distinct disadvantage to Bryson right off the bat due to strength, speed doesn't get the ball out of the rough, strength does.   The way Bryson hits his irons (due to steepness of his swing and SL) also give him an advantage.  Add that with a great putting week and a good ballstriking week and a guy with those built in advantages is gonna win.  Work ethic is what determines how often you play near the top of your ceiling.  Arguably Bryson is one of the hardest workers on tour too.

 

Just like a stronger faster taller player is gonna beat a shorter, slower, weaker player in the NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL on average if work ethic is the same.  The second guy has to have an amazing work ethic to compete with the first guy.  

[davep043]

On 9/21/2020 at 12:03 PM, drbonesvt said:

Arm lock , physics, anytime you anchor(against the arm) a lever (the putter ) to a more stable body (arm to the body) , you get a more stable lever vs free lever.  

But it’s the USGA’s fault for a poorly written rule . 

Perhaps its the R&A's fault.  Or perhaps they wrote the rule in exactly the way they intended, to disallow anchoring against the body, but to allow the club to be placed against the arm or other "moving part".  

[J13]

Old man media at it again just like when Tiger was pounding the ball.

 

Rory - he's turned into such a bitter and envious player.  He just seems to have a love hate relationship with golf in general.

 

If other players or anyone for that matter get bent out of shape about a guy working his butt off to improve then they are the problem.  Go hit the range and the gym and do something about it.  Bryson just showed you it's possible.

[tiger-vs-me]

On 9/21/2020 at 4:05 PM, Philomathesq said:

Let me start by saying "Go Blue."

 

I can't find a video of McIlroy's interview (and I do think the video is better than the transcript because you can see his body language), but here are a bunch of quotes he made during his interview. To me (and I realize how one interprets McIlroy's interview will vary greatly by person), he seemed like a sore loser and took several digs at Bryson. He repeated, multiple times, that Bryson is "taking advantage" of the game right now, intimating that Bryson is doing something unsavory in order to gain an advantage. I don't see that to be the case. I see a guy (Bryson) who is willing to put in more work than others in order to pursue a path he thinks will work best. There is nothing stopping any other player from doing exactly what Bryson has done, except for maybe gumption--which many players lack. In my opinion, Rory seemed like a guy who wants the rules to be changed in order to prevent Bryson from being better than everyone else (which I find to be an odd sentiment given that Bryson hasn't been better than everyone else routinely).

 

Rory Quotes

 

"So I think — about the guy, I think it’s brilliant, but I think he’s taken advantage of where the game is at the minute,” Rory McIlroy said. “Look, again, whether that’s good or bad, but it’s just the way it is."

 

“I don’t really know what to say because that’s just the complete opposite of what you think a U.S. Open champion does,” he said of DeChambeau. “Look, he’s found a way to do it. Whether that’s good or bad for the game, I don’t know, but it’s just — it’s not the way I saw this golf course being played or this tournament being played. It’s kind of hard to really wrap my head around it.”

 

“With the way [DeChambeau] approaches it, with the arm-lock putting, with everything, it’s just where the game’s at right now,” he said. “I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. He’s just taking advantage of what we have right now.”

 

Maybe it's just me, but I read those quotes as coming from someone who is bitter and is trying to minimize Bryson's accomplishment.

 

 

 

yep, that was also my 1st, 2nd and 3rd thought! 

He was shocked, and that interview was when Bryson was on 16

[Titleist99]

5 hours ago, J13 said:

Old man media at it again just like when Tiger was pounding the ball.

 

Rory - he's turned into such a bitter and envious player.  He just seems to have a love hate relationship with golf in general.

 

If other players or anyone for that matter get bent out of shape about a guy working his butt off to improve then they are the problem.  Go hit the range and the gym and do something about it.  Bryson just showed you it's possible.

Rory didn't sound bitter and envious to me....I thought that he was responding to questions asked by the media....none seemed negative to me.

[Outlier]

I figured it out...for me at least.  Why Bryson irks me is that his approach to golf (in each and every facet of the game) is "scientific" to the point that in his quest to eliminate variability he has darn near eliminated even the appearence of any "artistry".  

 

Yes I know DJ too has dialed in his wedges, but when he misses HE misses......

Bryson seems to suggest that a missed putt is do to an incorrect green reading book or the meteorologist was off in predicted hourly temperature and barometric pressure.

 

His work on the greens annoys me most- he has determines where precisley he is on the green, then uses his vector formula in conjunction with the "map" and his predetermined daily green-speed to swing his putter back and through exactly x inches aimed at the point predetermined by his formula.   

 

So for me, I would eliminate the green reading book and as Rory said the arm-lock.  He has essentially done exactly what Rory said, he has taken the 2 deminsional concept of "distance" and added (with the aid of the green mapping book) the additional demension of slope/vector and thereby his putting is a "formula" rather than the skill of green reading and "feel".  For me THAT is what needs to be eliminated....god bless him if he did everything else and then got to the green and read the put and matched the line to his speed based on his head not a map!

[Hawkeye77]

On 9/22/2020 at 8:07 PM, MtlJeff said:

 

Fair enough.  The mid 90s Sonics were my favorite team ever. I was 16-17 when they were at their peak. Kemp, Payton, Hawkins, Schrempf, Perkins, Mcmillan....loved watching them 

I was in high school/starting college when they had Fred Brown and John Johnson - fun team to watch. 

[Hawkeye77]

20 hours ago, davep043 said:

Perhaps its the R&A's fault.  Or perhaps they wrote the rule in exactly the way they intended, to disallow anchoring against the body, but to allow the club to be placed against the arm or other "moving part".  

Agree. Hard to believe it wasn’t in the discussion and wouldn’t expect them to mess any further with the rule.