Single length Re-Boot

[disco111]

Since DeSham won the Open in convincing style, is anyone thinking of re-trying SL irons and/or if you never tried them, thinking about giving them a go? 

[Loki]

No, but I think more of his success is due to the arm lock than single length clubs.

[Rbsiedsc]

On 9/21/2020 at 7:03 AM, disco111 said:

Since DeSham won the Open in convincing style, is anyone thinking of re-trying SL irons and/or if you never tried them, thinking about giving them a go? 

my fitter told me these are a gimmick and only a unicorn can pull them off. The lies will need to be adjusted on every club and if you have a slow swing speed, they will not do anything for you. Try them a your own risk.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

My game is the opposite. The less i arm lock.. the better. I like my arms hanging natural with no straightness to them.

[xkilgorextroutx]

47 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

my fitter told me these are a gimmick and only a unicorn can pull them off. The lies will need to be adjusted on every club and if you have a slow swing speed, they will not do anything for you. Try them a your own risk.

 

Your fitter is making massive generalizations. Multiple threads here about successes with single length clubs. My driver tops out at 95 and when I tried out SLs when my buddy loaned me his set while he was injured, within a few range sessions I was far more consistent than with my "regular" clubs. Plenty of height. Seriously considering a set of Cobras for next season.

[NRJyzr]

6 minutes ago, xkilgorextroutx said:

 

Your fitter is making massive generalizations. Multiple threads here about successes with single length clubs. My driver tops out at 95 and when I tried out SLs when my buddy loaned me his set while he was injured, within a few range sessions I was far more consistent than with my "regular" clubs. Plenty of height. Seriously considering a set of Cobras for next season.

 

There are also dual length concept sets on the market now, also.  Should help with those who have issues with elevating the lower lofts in SL sets.

[Lobber]

I played one length for a bit and actually did quite well with them.  But I think the real key to success is bulking up and adding 40 lbs!

[MtlJeff]

I would be worried about my distance gaps. I have good gaps now, i would think single length shafts would cut into those.

 

I've never felt i couldn't make good contact with the clubs at their current lengths. If it works for him that's great. I've never thought of changing

[puttingmatt]

I wouls say try them, to each his own. That said, thinking success in the professional ranks rarely passes down to the everyday amateur especially in equipment. I would suggest golfers stop comparing themselves to the professional players, and while you may think you can play like the new US Open champion with clubs like these,  reality, begs to differ.

[sdedalus23]

I set about this summer to make the game easier through club setup. To do so, I was going to either get the cobra forged tec blacks one length or the Ping G410's. I went with the one lengths (4-G) to give them a try. I haven't found problems with gapping thus far, but the short irons are a bit of a challenge. I am a high ball hitter and they hit it incredibly high; so high that I have had a bit of a problem in the wind. I also found that my 54 and 60, which are still variable length, became less consistent with half shots due to the differences in length. Overall, my scores haven't changed much (still mid to low 70's) as they are generally predicated on how I am driving the ball because my iron play generally sucks. 

[threefortheshow]

I would like to try a hybrid version. Use normal setup through the 7 or 8 iron and then go single length from there. I think it would definitely help ball striking with the longer irons to have a shorter shaft length. Don’t think I would like the longer shaft lengths in the short irons. Would be an interesting experiment anyway. 

[OsnolaKinnard]

2 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

my fitter told me these are a gimmick and only a unicorn can pull them off. The lies will need to be adjusted on every club and if you have a slow swing speed, they will not do anything for you. Try them a your own risk.

With all due respect, your fitter is full of Sugar Honey Ice Tea.  All of my irons are 37.5" long, all of them have the same head weight, all of them have the same lie angle.  The fitting I went through was exhaustive and covered almost every possible combo that Edel golf had to offer.  In the end, it was like an eye glass fitting Hit this...do you like it?  Ok now hit this.  Better, or worse...now hit this...repeat until I get the desired result.

 

Are SL irons different than VL...absolutely.  I made the switch 2 years ago and as a birthday gift, got fitted by Edel Golf.  I posted the entire fitting experience here in GWRX. It was AWESOME. I have played numerous rounds, hit lots of balls, and I will say this...I am sold on the SL concept, but with some variations.

 

My iron set is 5-GW.  I saw my iron play REALLY improve with the 7-GW.  I am a taller golfer, and have never ever felt comfortable with clubs shorter than a 7 iron, and my old irons were +1" long, so a 38" 7 iron.   My irons are all 37.5" long and I really really dig the performance of the 6-GW.  I hit the ball more consistently, straighter, and predictably than I did with VL irons.  I feel BETTER over the ball on full shots, short shots, chips, pitches, bumps and runs, etc. than I ever did before.  I am pretty much the exact OPPOSITE of most people playing SL irons.  Most folks want to see SL in their 3-6 irons and then VL from 7iron down.  If I could do this again...I would make my set 3-GW and have the 3, 4, an 5 iron built at 38.5" and the rest of my clubs at 37.5" long as I have now.  So technically my irons would not be SL, but I would have two 'SL sets' to make one set if that makes sense.  Don't get me wrong, just because I do not hit the 5 iron very high does not mean it's not useful for me either.  

 

I think there is a place for SL irons.  I think that place is for taller golfers that require over length clubs.  I think that a 3, 4, 5, iron that start at 39" and work up to 40" long are too long for most amateurs to control and make consistent contact.  I think making them 8 iron length will promote solid contact, but will reduce performance to an acceptable level.  I think building the 3, 4, and 5 iron in the 38-39" range and the 6-GW in the 36.5'-37.5" range would promote the best of both worlds.

 

There are some really good and technically knowledgeable golfers here that will echo the same sentiments for taller golfers that I am espousing here.

 

Regardless...try them out and see for yourself if you can if it's something you're interested in.  

[setter02]

3 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

my fitter told me these are a gimmick and only a unicorn can pull them off. The lies will need to be adjusted on every club and if you have a slow swing speed, they will not do anything for you. Try them a your own risk.

 

Get your fitter to tell Wishon that he is also wasting his time and clearly knows nothing.

[scooterhd2]

This thread got me. Have a set of F8 OL irons in the backup bag. Just ordered a JumboMax Ultralite grip. I think I'm going to put it on the PW and give them another test.

[OsnolaKinnard]

I would add this thought.  A 2-5 iron in a hollow bodied 'utility club' design would be effective for most golfers in the 38-39" length range.  This puts those irons squarely in the 'standard' 5 iron length of 38" or a 'standard 3 iron' at 39" long.  If you build these clubs at +/1 .5" you have a lot of fitting variation for different sized golfers.  I also think the design of these utility iron heads would allow a golfer to be better suited at hitting these clubs, but with more precision than a wood type hybrid.

 

Currently the top of my bag has a 16* hybrid (2 iron equivalent), 19* hybrid (3 iron equivalent) and a 22* (4 iron equivalent).  They are older Kasco K2K hybrids and are SUPER easy to hit high and straight, but for their loft, they are IMO, about a club short.  What they are not so good at it is keeping the ball down to hit a wind cheating stinger.  They are not so good out of any sort of rough.

 

I am re-thinking the top of my bag at the moment.  I just ordered an 18* Tour Edge Exotics CBX 119 hybrid...it is a low flying spin killer.  It will have one job...hit a tee shot that flies low and under control about 210-230 yards for me.  I am also looking at the Srixon U85 and the soon to be released ZX utility irons.  What I am thinking is a utility 4 and 5 iron at 38.5" long.  This puts the 4 iron at 'standard' and puts the 5 iron at +.5" over 'standard' and allows me to feel more comfortable over both clubs.  You could probably build yourself a 'single length' long iron set using this approach.  a 2, 3, 4, 5 iron at 38.5" or 39" is doable and would alleviate the 'low flight/gapping' issues most golfers get at the top of the bag and still net you some more control.  For a guy like me, that allows me to build the bottom half of my irons to fit ME.

 

From my own experience, I love the SL concept.  To take it to the 'next level' would require a break from SL to a 'dual' SL set up.  SL for my long irons and SL for mid/short irons/wedges, and you could even have a third part with your wedges.

 

 

[elwhippy]

No. I have a long running bet with our local store as to when they will sell their second set of Cobra single length. The last sale was over a year ago. Still a gimmick. 

[MattM97]

I want to try out OL, I think it will work for someone at my height and size especially in the shorter irons. The issues are options and money, do I want to spend the money on a trail? Most likely not. 

[OsnolaKinnard]

4 hours ago, MattM97 said:

I want to try out OL, I think it will work for someone at my height and size especially in the shorter irons. The issues are options and money, do I want to spend the money on a trail? Most likely not. 

Matt, you can buy a Pinhawk or something like that in 6, 8, and PW for pretty cheap and try them out before taking the plunge.

 

My initial trial was far less 'in depth' but I had a friend build me a 37" long PW...and on the first swing it was love at first swing.  I then built a junker 8 iron to 37" long.  The Swing weights were 10pound sledge hammer and 5 pound sledge hammer...seriously, it was ridiculous, but for 'trial' purposes they fit the bill just fine.

 

I LOVED the extra length in the 8 and 7, and I was unconcerned with the 5 iron.  This 'trial' and my local Edwin Watts ridicule of the SL Concept as 'a gimmick' and not knowing how to fit someone for SL irons, I decided to get fit by Edel Golf.  I cannot find my write up of that experience as it must be lost by the sight software change over.  Regardless...I would do it again.

 

 

[Shilgy]

10 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

With all due respect, your fitter is full of Sugar Honey Ice Tea.  All of my irons are 37.5" long, all of them have the same head weight, all of them have the same lie angle.  The fitting I went through was exhaustive and covered almost every possible combo that Edel golf had to offer.  In the end, it was like an eye glass fitting Hit this...do you like it?  Ok now hit this.  Better, or worse...now hit this...repeat until I get the desired result.

 

Are SL irons different than VL...absolutely.  I made the switch 2 years ago and as a birthday gift, got fitted by Edel Golf.  I posted the entire fitting experience here in GWRX. It was AWESOME. I have played numerous rounds, hit lots of balls, and I will say this...I am sold on the SL concept, but with some variations.

 

My iron set is 5-GW.  I saw my iron play REALLY improve with the 7-GW.  I am a taller golfer, and have never ever felt comfortable with clubs shorter than a 7 iron, and my old irons were +1" long, so a 38" 7 iron.   My irons are all 37.5" long and I really really dig the performance of the 6-GW.  I hit the ball more consistently, straighter, and predictably than I did with VL irons.  I feel BETTER over the ball on full shots, short shots, chips, pitches, bumps and runs, etc. than I ever did before.  I am pretty much the exact OPPOSITE of most people playing SL irons.  Most folks want to see SL in their 3-6 irons and then VL from 7iron down.  If I could do this again...I would make my set 3-GW and have the 3, 4, an 5 iron built at 38.5" and the rest of my clubs at 37.5" long as I have now.  So technically my irons would not be SL, but I would have two 'SL sets' to make one set if that makes sense.  Don't get me wrong, just because I do not hit the 5 iron very high does not mean it's not useful for me either.  

 

I think there is a place for SL irons.  I think that place is for taller golfers that require over length clubs.  I think that a 3, 4, 5, iron that start at 39" and work up to 40" long are too long for most amateurs to control and make consistent contact.  I think making them 8 iron length will promote solid contact, but will reduce performance to an acceptable level.  I think building the 3, 4, and 5 iron in the 38-39" range and the 6-GW in the 36.5'-37.5" range would promote the best of both worlds.

 

There are some really good and technically knowledgeable golfers here that will echo the same sentiments for taller golfers that I am espousing here.

 

Regardless...try them out and see for yourself if you can if it's something you're interested in.  

Your post reinforces what I was going to say. Equal length certainly is a viable option for many but....there is a greater cost involved. Most players can get a serviceable set of clubs off the rack and enjoy the game. Equal length would be a better fit more for serious players that are willing to make a greater time and financial investment in their game. I do not believe a player can buy the Cobra SL off the rack and get much out of it. There is more idiosyncrasies in the tech needs at single length for loft and lie to achieve proper gapping.

[NRJyzr]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Your post reinforces what I was going to say. Equal length certainly is a viable option for many but....there is a greater cost involved. Most players can get a serviceable set of clubs off the rack and enjoy the game. Equal length would be a better fit more for serious players that are willing to make a greater time and financial investment in their game. I do not believe a player can buy the Cobra SL off the rack and get much out of it. There is more idiosyncrasies in the tech needs at single length for loft and lie to achieve proper gapping.

 

A friend of mine has done exactly that, Cobra F7 One Length, with the only change to completely off the rack being DGS shafts.  And he loves them.  He's always had a problem hitting long irons, finally able to do so with the Ones.

[games]

Those who say "if they worked, the pros would all be using them" clearly do not understand the culture of golf and the golf industry.

 

The OEMs are built on a model of a "stock" shaft and "specialty" heads (different lofts, weights, lies).  That's how clubs are made, so that's how they're used.

 

In connection with that, instruction is predicated on the equipment being produced.  Different length irons increases the lesson time to devote to "wedges, short irons, mid-irons and long irons."  Right?

 

Bryson pierced the veil.  A pro golfer's "inventory" is practice and conditioning time.  Bryson's SL irons, allow him to spend less time and energy practicing irons, and devote more time to conditioning, driving and putting.  Whether intended or not is irrelevant.  That is the result.  As far as the masses, current variability in iron lengths creates additional instruction time and fees.  One length irons means less lesson time.

 

Will the industry change?  Follow the money!  Right now, the culture of golfers reflects the industry.  The traditional country club blue bloods with the money for the latest annual OEM full bag purchase hate BD's swing and equipment (and how dare he wear Hogan's cap)!  But, that core group is dwindling.

[games]

The Washington Post has a FANTASTIC article that addresses his ingenuity, and effects on the industry.  Worth a read...

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/09/20/bryson-dechambeau-golf-swing-scientist/

 

[Fairway14]

On 9/21/2020 at 7:16 AM, Loki said:

No, but I think more of his success is due to the arm lock than single length clubs.

 

Yes and no. DeChambeau won lots of tournaments using single length clubs before he went to arm lock putting technique. But I do agree arm lock was a primary factor to his great putting en route to winning the US Open. And I expect that if he can keep putting well he will win many more tournaments.

[MSB16]

I think an over looked aspect of OL sets is loft gapping. Club fitters/manufacturers will let people end up with 2-3* loft gaps within some clubs, especially up near the long irons. At one length, this isn't enough of a gap for proper gapping. I've had success at 4-5* gaps with the same gap between all clubs, giving me more proper distance gaps throughout the bag. Bryson's lofts have changed throughout the years, but if you compare his gapping to the stock sets, you'll see that he has larger gaps per club on average. 

 

A stronger 4 or 5 iron with weaker P and G will solve the problems most people find with one length.

[golfinrig24]

I have never played one length Irons. I have always thought that this idea has helped Bryson play his way with his unique swing. The only down fall that may have held him back was the uneven lies one may get from 30 yards and in. But in Brson fashion he seen the problem then solved it.

I am however happy to eat my words that he would never win a major, Bryson is an incredible talent that does whatever it takes to make him the best he can be!

[chipa]

23 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

my fitter told me these are a gimmick and only a unicorn can pull them off. The lies will need to be adjusted on every club and if you have a slow swing speed, they will not do anything for you. Try them a your own risk.

 

SL length clubs are not only good for high hc players because they make the swing more simple, it is also good for people with limited lower back flexibility like myself. I am going to SL from 6 to LW (but everything else standard) because I finally figured out that my back condition was why I don'f hit my short irons any better than my mid irons. In fact most of the time I just aimed for the middle of the green and hoped to hit it for more than 60 yards.

 

Regarding the issue of single length and clubhead speed, that it a valid concern. That's why lower swing speed players generally go 5 to wedge and the rest they round out with SL or normal length hybrids, depending on their swing speed.

Edited September 23, 2020 by chipa

[chipa]

8 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Your post reinforces what I was going to say. Equal length certainly is a viable option for many but....there is a greater cost involved. Most players can get a serviceable set of clubs off the rack and enjoy the game. Equal length would be a better fit more for serious players that are willing to make a greater time and financial investment in their game. I do not believe a player can buy the Cobra SL off the rack and get much out of it. There is more idiosyncrasies in the tech needs at single length for loft and lie to achieve proper gapping.

 

There are a enough good cheap SL alternatives like Pinhawk.

 

Also, SL is a very good option for people with back problems. Maybe after Bryson's win people will notice that SL isn't just to make the swing simpler, it can allow people to play with less back pain.

[bullie76]

I have a set of f9's 6-gap. I liked them fairly well but always go back to the Apex c16 irons. I just enjoy the feel of the Apex better. But I might try buying some jumbo grips and try those on the f9's.  It would be my anti Apex set but I enjoy experimenting.  ? 

[bladehunter]

I find these sets to be a conundrum.  Hear me out.

 

 

 

im a tall guy. I already play my wedges at around 36.5 inches. My pw-LW has been same length for several years.  So that’s no issue.  Loft will make gaps especially with wedges.    And my irons only step 1/4 between each from pw-7 iron.  Then 3/8 from 6-3 iron.  And I’m prone to choking  down a touch on the 3-4 depending on lie etc. overall set is 1/2 inch over ping standard. But the short irons lengthened to 3/4 over to make them work with my reach etc.  

 

anyway.  I said that to say that I don’t think single length would be a huge jump in learning curve.  Wedges being the supposed hardest part.  The idea of a 7 iron length 4 iron is appealing to me if it launches.  Since it has to be easier to hit.  Right ?  So that’s why the idea interests me.  But here’s the rub.  
 

ive looked for a couple years and cannot seem to find a set for sale at anywhere near a decent price.  Keep in mind I’m just wanting heads as I’d have to reshaft likely since most sets I see are R flex or super light etc.  I see edel for $700-1200 used.  I see cobra for no cheaper than $500 if it’s 4-pw.   But you can get cobra brand new for $799.  And choose the shaft.  $800 minimum is a rough pill to swallow .  What i cannot figure out is why there hasn’t been any fire sale prices on used sets yet ?  I’d expect a first gen cobra one length set to be out there for $200 by now.  
 

in my opinion cobra needs a demo program similar to hogan.  A 4 and an 8 iron demo for $40 for a month.  They’d sell more sets if they did this.  Anybody else find this the holdback for trying it ?  

[Fairway14]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

 What i cannot figure out is why there hasn’t been any fire sale prices on used sets yet ?  I’d expect a first gen cobra one length set to be out there for $200 by now.  

 

Relatively little inventory is the reason. I don't believe Cobra ever produced a large volume of one length sets, and as such there is little supply of used inventory.