Single length Re-Boot

[OsnolaKinnard]

20 hours ago, hanfrac said:

I tried and failed earlier this summer.  Bought a set of Cobra Forged One Length (same heads BD plays, I believe) with KBS Tour stiffs.  I'm a 98-100mph driver guy, hit a 7 iron about 160.  I couldn't hit the one lengths to save my life.  I don't know if there was some adjustment I needed to make or what, but it was ugly shot after ugly shot, and they felt terrible.  I gave up after 3-4 range sessions and 3-4 rounds after seeing nothing encouraging.  Went back to my Apex/Apex Pro combo set.

There IS a learning curve and it is purely mental.  I have been using my Edel SLS01's for 2 years and I still find that the 'ball creeps forward' as I move up to the 5 and 6 irons.  For me, this resulted in either a thinned shot, or a chunked shot.  When I remember to set up everything up as I did a 7 iron...I get VERY good results.  As I started getting used to the clubs, and remembering to take a step back and 'swing the 7 iron', I get the results that I want.

 

Like LowNoteMB, I am a taller golfer, 6'4" tall, and the benefit for 'my game' is the 7 iron on down.  The Edel SLS01 irons are SPECTACULAR, never have I felt like I was able to have total command of the ball.  The 5 and 6 iron are still good, but they do not measure up to the other clubs.  It is absolutely CRAZY because they are all the same length, lie, weight, and swing weight and head weight...the only difference being the loft of the club.  That causes me to think it is primarily a mental issue.  Keep in mind also, that I underwent the Edel fitting process and that is pretty extensive and exhaustive.  I found exactly what worked for me and my swing and my game.  When LownoteMB says 'bespoke', it's pretty darn close.  The head weights, shaft flex profiles (long iron vs short iron vs mid iron), and shaft weight, lie angle, loft angles, grip size, all were variables that we tested out.

 

It is off how clubs that are 'all the same' do not look the same...standing over the Edel 5 iron and then the Edel GW is weird AT FIRST...but you do learn it.

 

 

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, dmeeksDC said:

Yeah, he actually was seventh for the week in driving distance. Rory and 5 others outdrove him. And single length to me is a disadvantage in short irons for most players. 
 

The putting is a massive difference. Using armlock, he is making 91 percent of his putts from 10 feet and in, which is an incredible number. It’s a legal form of anchoring — I think it is more anchored than using the chest — and it works. 

 

I don't think it's the armlock that's improved his putting, at least not on its own; he's been doing that for a fair bit of time, and his putting stats have not always been good since switching to that method.  I think it's the other aspects of his putting practice, the speed measures, the slope examinations, all of it.  

 

Putting has long been described by some as an art, I think hes showing it can be done effectively with pure science.

Edited September 24, 2020 by NRJyzr

[dmeeksDC]

1 minute ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I don't think it's the armlock that's improved his putting, at least not on its own; he's been doing that for a fair bit of time, and his putting stats have not always been good since switching to that method.  I think it's the other aspects of his putting practice, the speed measures, the slope examinations, all of it.  

 

Putting has long been described by some as an art, I think hes showing it can be done effectively with pure science.

All good points and I’m not knocking the kid at all. He dominated. And who has outworked him this year? No one. 
 

The speed control he gets using his method is amazing. However, add it all up and in looking at the various components of his putting — and admittedly this is speculation — I still don’t think he is hitting the 91 percent make mark from 10 feet and in with a traditional putting stroke. He has always been a solid putter but that really is off the charts. And that is over a season, not one event.
 

Forget the tee shots! Single-length, scmingle-length! Of all the things Bryson does that other players may or may not copy, if a pro is bad from that distance, a hugely important range for scoring, those players have to be looking at what he is doing. I watched the entire US Open. BAD made a lot of putts. But the number of putts he barely missed from all over also was impressive. 

[me05501]

I suspect that among all the different equipment Bryson uses, the bigger grips would probably be the one thing that most players could apply instantly and see some benefit from with quieter hands and less grip pressure. 

 

Armlock putting would be second. 

 

Single plane swing would be third. 

 

One length irons would be down the list.

 

I think they're a by-product of the single plane swing and an efficiency shortcut for someone who will probably hit 10x as many drivers on the range as irons. In other words, I think Bryson prioritizes driving over all other full-swing shots and knowing him I'd gamble he allocates his practice time toward that. Single-length irons allow him to practice one full swing with any iron that will carry over into any other. In his case I'd bet it's a full sand wedge or whatever. So maybe he allocates half his range time to driver, a quarter to full wedges, and the rest to less-than-full swings. Or something like that. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by me05501

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, dmeeksDC said:

 

The speed control he gets using his method is amazing. However, add it all up and in looking at the various components of his putting — and admittedly this is speculation — I still don’t think he is hitting the 91 percent make mark from 10 feet and in with a traditional putting stroke. He has always been a solid putter but that really is off the charts. And that is over a season, not one event.
 

 

 

Completely agree.  He may have improved, but 91% wasn't attainable with conventional putting.  IMHO of course.  ?

[shokosugi]

I'll chime in... I generally play my irons about 1" over (39" 5 iron). I have recently switched to the wishon sterlings built at 37.5" and am  not looking back. I previously tried the pinhawks SL with the same shafts (PX 6.5 ss) and had issues with the 4 and 5 iron. The wishon sterlings have fixed that with their hi-cor faces on the long irons. Yes, launch isn't quite as high as a VL iron set but it's good enough in my opinion. One bonus is that on hard fairways, the 4 iron is my "stinger" off the tee club. I'll probably use a hybrid now for winter golf instead of the 4 iron but no complaints otherwise.  My previous set of irons which i thought would never leave the bag (Maltby ts1) were great but I feel like I am more consistent with the SL - less bad shots overall and generally better contact. Adjustment period was very short and I would recommend SL to anyone as I think it can work - it did for me!  Based on looks, the wedges look too long at address and the long irons look too short - they still do to me but once you start swing them, it won't bother you anymore. Believe it or not, long wedges are not hard to hit at all and they will become your fav clubs in the bag. I actually find it easier to hit the longer wedges and seem to have less of my wedge pull miss for some reason. Since 99% of my shots inside 100 yards are with my SW and LW, I have kept my ping glides in the bag as I just like chipping with these clubs and prefer a traditional length for what I use them for. If i just used my SW for full shots, I probably would have kept the sterling SW.

 

 

 

 

 

[OsnolaKinnard]

On 9/24/2020 at 8:37 AM, Fairway14 said:

 

How tall are you ?

I played a round of golf with 6'4" Dan Forsman. His address posture includes lots of hip/waist bend so that his shoulders/arms are well out in front of his feet.

The late George Archer was 6'5" and his posture was to have a pronounced knee bend at address. 

So, two tall players who used different address posture techniques to get down to the ball.

I talked to 6'7" Phil Blackmar about this subject and he did not advocate using longer than standard length clubs, but instead to do as either Forsman or Archer did, which is find an address posture that works well with standard length clubs. Blackmar did not like like over length wedges or irons because they become too heavy, which is counterproductive.

My belief is that most tall players are best served by adopting a posture relatively close to the ball, bending slightly from the hips (thereby creating space for the path of the arms-hands), and then the final part of the process is flexing the knees a bit to get the club head down to the ground, behind the ball. Tiger is 6'1", so not extremely tall, but this is the address posture method he used , especially during his teenage and earl pro career years. 6'3" Davis Love uses the same method, which is textbook.

I like the Tiger-DLIII posture because it keeps the upper body relatively vertical, from which making a backswing body turn-pivot relatively level and  easy.

The tall players who bend a great deal from the hips-waist, such as Forsman or 6'2" Keegan Bradley, are set up to make more of a vertical shoulder turn, which is less natural to the body and can promote more of an "arms swing" than a true body turn-pivot.

I have found out what works well for me.  Bending over 'more' has never been comfortable for me over the ball.  I played VL irons for almost 20 years before making the switch, and even with irons that were +1"(39" 5 iron), I never felt comfortable over the ball.  Maybe it's my own Big behind, or my own physical limitations, but with the clubs that mattered the most (8-LW), I felt the least comfortable.  

 

My "over length" SL Irons and GW are fantastic for me.  Let me put it this way, before cancer surgery a year ago, I went from shooting 85-90 to posting scores that were 75-80.  The difference?  Hitting GIR and chipping/pitching it close, and I use every club from 7 iron down to chip and pitch with.  

 

The SL irons let me feel relaxed at address and that leads to less tension which leads to better balls striking and results.

Edited September 25, 2020 by OsnolaKinnard

[scooterhd2]

Two range sessions going back to my F8 OL. These weren't fitted to me, and seems like I am getting a little quick with them. Even with the 7 iron, so not a length issue. When I deliberately slow down I am making really good contact and was repeatedly flushing clubs changing irons after 1 hit so that I couldn't groove in a particular iron. Just got some high density lead tape on order and have a Jumbomax ultralight grip to install as well. I think these were D1 stock and I put some extra wraps on the grip so might be playing under that. Will build them up to D2.5-3.  

 

My overall game is about 10 shots better since I last tried these, and my swing speed has gone up quite a bit as well. Was hitting the 6 iron on a very nice trajectory, although the PW was getting quite high. I'll be strategic with the tape placement even though it makes little difference. But once I get them dialed in, I'll get out on the course and give this re-boot a real shot. 

 

 

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

How tall are you ?

I played a round of golf with 6'4" Dan Forsman. His address posture includes lots of hip/waist bend so that his shoulders/arms are well out in front of his feet.

The late George Archer was 6'5" and his posture was to have a pronounced knee bend at address. 

So, two tall players who used different address posture techniques to get down to the ball.

I talked to 6'7" Phil Blackmar about this subject and he did not advocate using longer than standard length clubs, but instead to do as either Forsman or Archer did, which is find an address posture that works well with standard length clubs. Blackmar did not like like over length wedges or irons because they become too heavy, which is counterproductive.

My belief is that most tall players are best served by adopting a posture relatively close to the ball, bending slightly from the hips (thereby creating space for the path of the arms-hands), and then the final part of the process is flexing the knees a bit to get the club head down to the ground, behind the ball. Tiger is 6'1", so not extremely tall, but this is the address posture method he used , especially during his teenage and earl pro career years. 6'3" Davis Love uses the same method, which is textbook.

I like the Tiger-DLIII posture because it keeps the upper body relatively vertical, from which making a backswing body turn-pivot relatively level and  easy.

The tall players who bend a great deal from the hips-waist, such as Forsman or 6'2" Keegan Bradley, are set up to make more of a vertical shoulder turn, which is less natural to the body and can promote more of an "arms swing" than a true body turn-pivot.

I’m 6ft 3 with long legs.  but I swing upright. Not a ton of hip bend . I stand close to the ball. Just naturally.  It’s easier to hit the ball straight from my position.  Farther from the ball eqauls more timing to the swing due to inside inside arc.  I’m square to target for a long time.  

[chipa]

9 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

There IS a learning curve and it is purely mental.  I have been using my Edel SLS01's for 2 years and I still find that the 'ball creeps forward' as I move up to the 5 and 6 irons.  

 

That's a good observation. I am currently building a 6-L of Pinhawks set mostly because of back issues that don't allow me to make an easy swing with the shorter irons. I think I may just try to learn to play the shorter irons farther back and hit them lower, but if that doesn't work I'll have to adapt but I feel like I can make it happen given how miserably I have generally played the short irons for so long.

[lenman73]

As an experiment,  a couple of months back I got a set of OL's off ebay for $149.  They were not fitted nor are they top of the line, but perfect for my purposes. The heads are clones of my taylormade rocketbladz so looking down at them wasn't like looking at a stranger. I did, before even going to the range the first time put some lead tape on the 5 and 6.  I have a 3 and 4 hybrid, my 52,56,and 60 are a set and already the same length at their wedge length so away I went. The first range session was a blast and surprise.  The short irons were launching high.   As a low ball hitter that was cool to see. Then the 5 and 6 were about the height I was used to seeing anyways. After a hand injury I switched to some irons with graphite shafts but this weekend the cheapo OL's are making a return.

 

As far as learning curve goes, I was comfortable with them at first swing.  But unlike the guy who posted earlier about the ball creeping forward in his stance, I was the opposite.  Mine was back a little too far and that didn't help with elevation with the 5 and 6.  Knowing that now, I am excited to give it another go this weekend. 

[xkilgorextroutx]

It's interesting to me in that it seems the majority of posters who are against OL seem to be basing their position on "I heard" or "So and so said", while the folks talking up OL are the ones who actually tried it. 

[blueonblack]

I can't change now, but I was very intrigued to hear Bryson got his inspiration from the Bobby Jones set, was it, that was single length?

Never realized Jones played such a set. Equipment has changed a lot, yet it hasn't.

[OsnolaKinnard]

2 hours ago, xkilgorextroutx said:

It's interesting to me in that it seems the majority of posters who are against OL seem to be basing their position on "I heard" or "So and so said", while the folks talking up OL are the ones who actually tried it. 

Welcome to the internet!

[xkilgorextroutx]

17 minutes ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Welcome to the internet!

 

[jpbova]

2 hours ago, xkilgorextroutx said:

It's interesting to me in that it seems the majority of posters who are against OL seem to be basing their position on "I heard" or "So and so said", while the folks talking up OL are the ones who actually tried it. 

I heard that so and so said that guys that play one length are just trying to compensate for their tiny shaft.

[ChipNRun]

In 2016 I got to try some Cobra single length at rainy demo day when not too many people showed up.

 

I spend about a half hour hitting the irons. Verdict: 6, 7, 8i flew pretty well / 5i bumped into 6i for distance / 9i and wedges went too far, and I pulled them (too long shaft on wedges?)

 

I think my swing solution in irons lays more in the AWT / flighted realm rather than single-length shafts.

[scooterhd2]

2 hours ago, blueonblack said:

I can't change now, but I was very intrigued to hear Bryson got his inspiration from the Bobby Jones set, was it, that was single length?

Never realized Jones played such a set. Equipment has changed a lot, yet it hasn't.

 

I don't think the set was exactly like Bryson's where all the iron are the exact same length. But some of his irons were matched in pairs. where a 5 and 6 would be the same length. 7 and 8 the same length, etc. 

[Tax77]

About to cut an old set of Adams down to 36 inches, I don't care about lie angle, flatter the better If I'm looking directly down at the ball. A couple rolls of lead tape, midsize grips for my little hands, baseball grip, short backswing and swing as hard as I freaking can. 

[grm24]

On 9/23/2020 at 2:03 PM, NRJyzr said:

 

It's in a story on the WRX home page, "inside the bag of Bryson DeChambeau."  His lofts are pretty jacked.

• 4i @ 18°
• 5i @ 22°
• 6i @ 25°
• 7i @ 29°
•  8i @ 33°
• 9i @ 37°
• P @ 42°
• G @ 47° (A
• S @ 52°
• L @ 58°

LOL! Wonder how far underground the COG is on his irons! 

[Fairway14]

On 9/24/2020 at 2:37 PM, bladehunter said:

I’m 6ft 3 with long legs.  but I swing upright. Not a ton of hip bend . I stand close to the ball. Just naturally.  It’s easier to hit the ball straight from my position.  Farther from the ball eqauls more timing to the swing due to inside inside arc.  I’m square to target for a long time.  

 

Excellent message !

Following his US Open Sunday back nine off line ball striking Matthew Wolff suggested the problem was that he had crept too far from the ball at address.

[gparr]

Ok...I have been around this forum a little while but I am not one who makes many posts -- i prefer to sit and read and learn. My golf game had gotten to where I could only hit "certain" irons and was on the hunt for a change. I read...and read...and read the internet and came across the SL idea. Something clicked in my mind that wow...if I could only worry about 1 basic swing I might be able to improve and score where I would truly like to score. Enter Wishon Sterling clubs. I compressed all the information I had gathered and decided Wishon was going to be for me. I found a Wishon fitter 1 town away and started the process this past January. After several visits he decided due to my body frame - 6' 3" with an 29" inseam - I should try hitting my 7 iron an inch longer. He then modeled up a 6, 7 and PW each with a different shaft and told me to go play and report back in 3 months. So I went to the range religiously and did my best to get in as many rounds as possible. Due to COVID-19 we could not get together until June. When we met then we had to decide on the shaft choice and decide whether to go 5H of 5I. I decided on the 5H. Then had to sit and wait 2 weeks for everything to come in and be built. It took a little while to get used to my GW being so long...but since getting the SL clubs I have played about 8 strokes better and have seen the upper 70's for the first time. Needless to say I am sold on SL clubs - Wishon or whatever brand someone chooses. They simply fit my game. Now I just need to get my Driver swing going well and I should be even better. Just my thoughts about my game...

[lenman73]

Got to play with my SL's today.  After a couple months not touching them, they were like old friends.  Only hit 2 wayward shots with them during the round.  Now I admit that is not normal, but it was definitely a fun time today and am looking forward to the next time even more. 

 

Things I noticed, short irons fly high.  Long irons were lower again, but contact was more consistent that the VL's.  And one shot I had out of some thick rough, instead of clubbing up, I just used my wedge and it came out high and landed soft on the green.  I bought these as a cheap experiment and after several rounds put them away and went back to my other clubs.  While today's round does not set a pattern, I think even I am becoming more of a believer. 

[tongr]

I was looking at Cobra one length irons on their website and noticed that the specs show a single length but the lie angles change as the set progresses.  Any idea why they do this when the length isn’t changing?

[Tax77]

On 9/26/2020 at 3:14 PM, Fairway14 said:

 

Excellent message !

Following his US Open Sunday back nine off line ball striking Matthew Wolff suggested the problem was that he had crept too far from the ball at address.

He was yipping with that pre shot routine. 

[scooterhd2]

Got the One Lengths back out on the course this weekend. Tried to go Bryson mode by putting a jumbo max grip on the 8 iron for testing. Put some new lead tape down, as the stock D1 just feels light. Unfortunately, the course that my buddy picked, while beautiful, was quite short. A lot of 350-360 yard par 4s. Longest par 3 was 144 yards. So I didn't hit anything lower than a 9 iron all day. Driver, hybrid a couple of times on the par 5s and on 2 tee boxes, and everything else was wedges. 

 

I will the OL GW performed very well. That has been a weakness for me. I tend to hit partial wedges into greens really thin. I am a picker and struggle getting down into the ball. While I pulled a couple of shots, I never once had contact problems with the OL GW. Got the ball flight I was after with every swing. I hit the 9 and PW very well too. These lofted are jacked compared to my Srixon 785 short irons. Coupled with longer shafts, higher ball flights, these definitely go longer. Hadn't played them for a while, so wasn't sure of my distances and just played them 1 club longer than my gamers. All in all was a good outing. Going to play more with them as it was fun. Shot an 82, which isnt my best round, but isn't unheard of. Shot 84 my last time out with the Srixons. I reckon I'd shoot the same with either set depending on my swing that day.

 

 

 

 

[Celeras]

Going one length for my long irons was a great move for me. Much easier to hit and more consistent. Little more difficult to stop the 4 iron on approach but its something I am happy to work around when I can strike it so well.

 

The wedges on the other hand, I don't understand why anyone would want those.

[games]

@Celeras Get us out of the golf simulator discussions, and we agree on something!  I think SL full swing irons and wedges make sense.  For pitches and chips (and putts for that matter), it helps to be a little closer.  

 

If I go "all in" on SL, I'll keep SW and LW at standard length.  On tight lies, I'll just dial down the GW to cover distances the LW can't reach.

[xkilgorextroutx]

11 hours ago, Celeras said:

Going one length for my long irons was a great move for me. Much easier to hit and more consistent. Little more difficult to stop the 4 iron on approach but its something I am happy to work around when I can strike it so well.

 

The wedges on the other hand, I don't understand why anyone would want those.

 

Because they're absolute weapons, especially for golfers who normally hit low balls like me?

[chipa]

13 hours ago, Celeras said:

Going one length for my long irons was a great move for me. Much easier to hit and more consistent. Little more difficult to stop the 4 iron on approach but its something I am happy to work around when I can strike it so well.

 

The wedges on the other hand, I don't understand why anyone would want those.

 

The wedges are great for people who don't play a lot of golf as well as those with back problems (like myself) and other factors(shoulder flexibility) that limit keeping the arms and hands connected for short irons as opposed to working together. Also not to mention taller players.