Does Par Matter in a Pro Tournament?

[smashdn]

Local course has a par four that is 294 from the back tees and slightly downhill.  Also has a par three that plays 247 across flat ground.  A 4 has a completely different feel depending upon the hole though they are both the same score.

[oikos1]

That's why match play is such a great format.  Fewest strokes for each hole, 18 times.  Par is meaningless.

 

 

[naval2006]

Par is,

 

1. A reference to follow pro golf

2. A reference for skills at amateur level (we’re so bound to it we can’t make birdies too often)

 

I don’t think tv players care so much about par except when they save par, which implies a positive psychological impact in the heat of battle. 

[Shilgy]

The biggest way par matters for a pro event is the perception it creates amongst the fans and media. Call it a par 70 and -9 wins.  It’s called a good old fashioned tough event. The same course labeled as a par 72 creates a -17 win and it is just another easy tour event pushing -20. 

[dlygrisse]

It matters psychologically to many people I play with but I can’t imagine why it would matter to high level pros. 
 

there is a course I play with a long par 4 that has a large water hazard at about 240 from the tee, unless you can carry it 280 in the air you are laying up and hitting another 220-240 yard 2nd. It’s rarely reached in 2 and was named a par 5 In years past.  
 

rumor has it it’s now a par 4 because of a USGA course rating issue.  
 

anywho, I play with people who get pissed about it, but in my mind I accept 5 as a good score. 

[davep043]

13 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

there is a course I play with a long par 4 that has a large water hazard at about 240 from the tee, unless you can carry it 280 in the air you are laying up and hitting another 220-240 yard 2nd. It’s rarely reached in 2 and was named a par 5 In years past.  
 

rumor has it it’s now a par 4 because of a USGA course rating issue.  

Par became important under the WHS because of the limit of "net double bogey" for posting hole scores.  The suggestion is that par-4s can be up to 490 yards, par-5s should be at least 450, and holes in the "buffer range" should be evaluated based on difficulty and the intent of the design.  Its possible the par was changed as a result of the WHS guidance.

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, davep043 said:

Par became important under the WHS because of the limit of "net double bogey" for posting hole scores.  The suggestion is that par-4s can be up to 490 yards, par-5s should be at least 450, and holes in the "buffer range" should be evaluated based on difficulty and the intent of the design.  Its possible the par was changed as a result of the WHS guidance.

 

I recall there's some overlap in the USGA distance vs. par evaluations and it sounds like the hole Mr @dlygrisse describes SHOULD be a par 5. 👍

[davep043]

1 minute ago, nsxguy said:

 

I recall there's some overlap in the USGA distance vs. par evaluations and it sounds like the hole Mr @dlygrisse describes SHOULD be a par 5. 👍

Yeah, that's the range I mentioned, 450 to 490 yards for par4/5.  The "scratch golfer" used for Course Rating would be required to lay up short of the water, and wouldn't be able to reach the green on his second, so I'd recommend leaving it as a par 5.  There's another section that suggests its reasonable judgement to keep par the same across all tees, even if the respective yardages would indicate different pars from different tees.  There's not a hard and fast rule, the guidance allows for some judgement calls.

[dlygrisse]

3 hours ago, davep043 said:

Yeah, that's the range I mentioned, 450 to 490 yards for par4/5.  The "scratch golfer" used for Course Rating would be required to lay up short of the water, and wouldn't be able to reach the green on his second, so I'd recommend leaving it as a par 5.  There's another section that suggests its reasonable judgement to keep par the same across all tees, even if the respective yardages would indicate different pars from different tees.  There's not a hard and fast rule, the guidance allows for some judgement calls.

It’s an odd hole, a perfect layup leaves you well over 200, but that’s the far end of a dogleg. If you are on the short side of the dogleg there is a very mature Sycamore in your line. The hole actually plays about 20 yards longer than the scorecard into a prevailing wind. 465 from the tips 446 member tees. The green arrow is where the green is.  The ditch is about 40 yards wide with water all down the left. Lol for me it’s a challenging par 5. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by dlygrisse

[OrangeGravy]

3 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

It’s an odd hole, a perfect layup leaves you well over 200, but that’s the far end of a dogleg. If you are on the short side of the dogleg there is a very mature Sycamore in your line. The hole actually plays about 20 yards longer than the scorecard into a prevailing wind. 465 from the tips 446 member tees. The green arrow is where the green is.  The ditch is about 40 yards wide with water all down the left. Lol for me it’s a challenging par 5. 

How far is it to carry the ditch  if you cut the dogleg? Over that big tree? 

[blueonblack]

I don't care about par as a number if there is good competition. Sometimes a birdie fest with a lot of risk/reward holes is fun to watch too. But a variety of scores and playing styles is preferred by this golf fan.

[dlygrisse]

7 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

How far is it to carry the ditch  if you cut the dogleg? Over that big tree? 

Way more than I got. 😀  my guess is over 250 at the corner, but that tree is huge.  On the line you want probably 270.  The creek angles away to the left. 
 

I’ve seen it done, but he was someone with about 118 CHS. That’s from the member tees, from the tips add 20 yards. 
 

DJ or Bryson hit a high fade at that building no problem. They got 140 to the green. Average guy from even the white tees has no real chance, except to lay up to corner, then hit a career 3 wood.  But it’s usually into the wind, and you have a bit of a pitch left.  Easy 5 if you don’t duff one into the creek or something, but there is quite a bit of trouble on the hole.  The second shot isn’t always easy because of the angle.  Point is, it’s a par 5 for me. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by dlygrisse

[teejaywhy]

On 9/23/2020 at 4:50 PM, Dr. Block said:

Well yeah, it’s changed.  I now need to make a 4 to make a par. I’m now hitting a driver to give myself an approach shot to the green.  

A foolish strategy imo, and not one a champion golfer would employ.

 

[Dr. Block]

18 minutes ago, teejaywhy said:

A foolish strategy imo, and not one a champion golfer would employ.

 

Yep.  If you read the whole thread you’d see I took a deserved beating, but at least I learned something that’s helped my game.  One of the many reasons to love the WRX. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dr. Block

[MattyO1984]

Par is a way of a letting spectators and television viewers know what is going on but at the end of the day, par in a stroke play competition is completely irrelevant.

[dlygrisse]

13 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

Par is a way of a letting spectators and television viewers know what is going on but at the end of the day, par in a stroke play competition is completely irrelevant.

Anyone who doesn’t get this, just doesn’t understand how a pro thinks his way around the course.  

[Santiago Golf]

Every Par 4 over 400 yards avgs over par on tour 

 

Every Par 5 avgs under par

 

When you watch golf on TV ... You are watching a small sample size

 

This years US Open played fined ... one guy finished under par 

 

Pebble Beach would have been fine if you made it a par 69 course (make 6 & 18 par 4s). Winning score is now around -5 (I don't see a problem with that)

 

Shinncock played fine

 

Oakmont played fine

 

Chambers played fine

 

Pinehurst played fine

 

Merion (the shortest US Open) the winner shot over par