What's coming next from the USGA and R&A...

[oikos1]

19 hours ago, mahonie said:

C’mon, these are some of the best guys in the world and I can hit that stuff better than them and so could you without 3 weeks to get ‘dialled in!’

 

Ok it’s a marketing video to show how fantastic the latest and greatest is...don’t be pulled in that there is next to no difference with how the game used to be played...you know better than that.

Lol.  You've gone from "Some of the guys on the PGA Tour wouldn’t be anywhere near scratch..." to "I can hit that stuff better than them and so could you without 3 weeks to get ‘dialled in!"

 

Wrx posting raising the bar (or maybe it's lowering) and taking it to a whole new level.

[mahonie]

5 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Lol.  You've gone from "Some of the guys on the PGA Tour wouldn’t be anywhere near scratch..." to "I can hit that stuff better than them and so could you without 3 weeks to get ‘dialled in!"

 

Wrx posting raising the bar (or maybe it's lowering) and taking it to a whole new level.

Lol...did you watch the video?

[oikos1]

14 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Lol...did you watch the video?

I have seen it before.  What do you think it proves?  It's two guys in a promo video hitting a few shots with clubs from different eras.  Put the same clubs from any era in your hands and a PGA Tour professional's hands and no question you would get destroyed playing 18 holes.  Again, disparaging the skills of professional golfers does nothing to promote the "roll it back" movement. 

 

Amusing as it's been suggested that "anti roll it backers" are the ones who have an inflated sense of ego.

[mahonie]

1 hour ago, oikos1 said:

I have seen it before.  What do you think it proves?  It's two guys in a promo video hitting a few shots with clubs from different eras.  Put the same clubs from any era in your hands and a PGA Tour professional's hands and no question you would get destroyed playing 18 holes.  Again, disparaging the skills of professional golfers does nothing to promote the "roll it back" movement. 

 

Amusing as it's been suggested that "anti roll it backers" are the ones who have an inflated sense of ego.

It was tongue in cheek...sorry you didn’t get it.

 

You talk about ego...I’ve asked several anti-roll backers what you think you will lose and there has not been one response, not one. Whether it’s you thinking that you won’t be able to compete with skilled golfers or what I don’t know...I would love to hear.

[ThinkingPlus]

8 minutes ago, mahonie said:

It was tongue in cheek...sorry you didn’t get it.

 

You talk about ego...I’ve asked several anti-roll backers what you think you will lose and there has not been one response, not one. Whether it’s you thinking that you won’t be able to compete with skilled golfers or what I don’t know...I would love to hear.

I will not lose a bunch.  I will not be able to play longer tees that I currently play and enjoy.  More importantly, many of the women I play with who can currently reach a few holes in regulation will no longer be able to.  There are some hitting fairway woods on holes I hit short irons.  I will have to go to my next longer iron, they will be hitting driver.  These are the folks that will suffer the most.  I don't see any need to implement changes to "solve" an ill-defined and objectively unsupported problem with golf at the elite level.

[mahonie]

22 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I will not lose a bunch.  I will not be able to play longer tees that I currently play and enjoy.  More importantly, many of the women I play with who can currently reach a few holes in regulation will no longer be able to.  There are some hitting fairway woods on holes I hit short irons.  I will have to go to my next longer iron, they will be hitting driver.  These are the folks that will suffer the most.  I don't see any need to implement changes to "solve" an ill-defined and objectively unsupported problem with golf at the elite level.

Are they not playing from the right tees, is the course not designed correctly or are they not using their handicaps? 

 

I suppose until you understand the problem, you don’t see the problem and that is where the problem lies.

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Are they not playing from the right tees, is the course not designed correctly or are they not using their handicaps? 

 

I suppose until you understand the problem, you don’t see the problem and that is where the problem lies.

They play the most forward tees.  The course is what we have.  Designers design to their whim with little regard for the golfers.  We almost exclusively play net games, but also provide for a low gross winner as well, regardless of the game of the day.  If you can't define a problem with some kind of objective information then no problem exists.

[QuigleyDU]

22 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

They play the most forward tees.  The course is what we have.  Designers design to their whim with little regard for the golfers.  We almost exclusively play net games, but also provide for a low gross winner as well, regardless of the game of the day.  If you can't define a problem with some kind of objective information then no problem exists.

The roll back is and will always be because of what we see on tour. It is a knee jerk reaction to the one percent of one percent. Arcos data is showing the golfing general public is getting shorter not longer.. now, those numbers are hard to extrapolate meaningful info from simple because we know nothing of the golfers.  
 

I have said before. If all golfers we measured this year I think you would see a significant drop in average driver distance. But is because of one reason. Lots and lots of brand new golfers tilting the scale.

[mahonie]

6 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

They play the most forward tees.  The course is what we have.  Designers design to their whim with little regard for the golfers.  We almost exclusively play net games, but also provide for a low gross winner as well, regardless of the game of the day.  If you can't define a problem with some kind of objective information then no problem exists.

Poor design is poor design...those courses don’t tend to stay around too long, particularly if they are unplayable.

 

I’ve said it before, but nobody seems to have noticed. The game is dying in the UK and it’s because the modern game cannot be played on the majority of our courses without it being a vastly diluted experience. I played a course 2 years ago that is in the top 100 courses where I used nothing longer than 7-iron for my second shot and I’m not that long. The tees are at the boundaries of the site and nothing more can be done to make it a proper challenge to modern equipment. Even the shorter guys in our party thought it was nice quality but a bit boring.

 

That’s pretty typical of most of the courses around me. Kids aren’t interested if they can’t bomb driver on every hole so no kids play. Membership at my course has gone from over 600 to less than 200 in the last 10 years. The course owner can’t afford to keep the course going and is looking at mining the sand and gravel that’s left beneath to get something back from nearly 50 years of managing and running it. Our sister course already has planning permission for residential development. You can’t blame the owner...land for residential development is worth £1m/acre and we would all sell a failing business given those terms. Give it another 20 years and most courses will be flattened for houses and golf will become a niche sport played only by the very wealthy at exclusive clubs...again.

 

That is an objective summary of what the problem is. Perhaps that doesn’t matter to you because what I’ve described doesn’t really have an impact on how you play and look at the game, but it’s a very selfish and short-sighted view that is killing the game in the country that gave you the game in the first place.

[clevited]

9 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Poor design is poor design...those courses don’t tend to stay around too long, particularly if they are unplayable.

 

I’ve said it before, but nobody seems to have noticed. The game is dying in the UK and it’s because the modern game cannot be played on the majority of our courses without it being a vastly diluted experience. I played a course 2 years ago that is in the top 100 courses where I used nothing longer than 7-iron for my second shot and I’m not that long. The tees are at the boundaries of the site and nothing more can be done to make it a proper challenge to modern equipment. Even the shorter guys in our party thought it was nice quality but a bit boring.

 

That’s pretty typical of most of the courses around me. Kids aren’t interested if they can’t bomb driver on every hole so no kids play. Membership at my course has gone from over 600 to less than 200 in the last 10 years. The course owner can’t afford to keep the course going and is looking at mining the sand and gravel that’s left beneath to get something back from nearly 50 years of managing and running it. Our sister course already has planning permission for residential development. You can’t blame the owner...land for residential development is worth £1m/acre and we would all sell a failing business given those terms. Give it another 20 years and most courses will be flattened for houses and golf will become a niche sport played only by the very wealthy at exclusive clubs...again.

 

That is an objective summary of what the problem is. Perhaps that doesn’t matter to you because what I’ve described doesn’t really have an impact on how you play and look at the game, but it’s a very selfish and short-sighted view that is killing the game in the country that gave you the game in the first place.

 

You have any proof about your claims that kids won't play because they can't bomb driver every hole?

 

Any evidence regarding why your membership is dwindling?

 

Sounds like your course was poorly designed if it is a bit boring to your friends, right?

 

You posted a lot of subjective feels, no evidence, no proof.  These types of subjective feels are what is fueling the distance rollback debate.  Meanwhile, largely logical fact based points of view are used to combat the reactionary desire to roll back distance but you are dismissing those rather than maybe understanding that a roll back of any kind causes lots of problems as well.

 

If you do seriously have some good evidence to back up what you just said as reasons why golf is hurting where you are at, post them.  I am interested to learn.  No sarcasm, seriously would.

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Poor design is poor design...those courses don’t tend to stay around too long, particularly if they are unplayable.

 

I’ve said it before, but nobody seems to have noticed. The game is dying in the UK and it’s because the modern game cannot be played on the majority of our courses without it being a vastly diluted experience. I played a course 2 years ago that is in the top 100 courses where I used nothing longer than 7-iron for my second shot and I’m not that long. The tees are at the boundaries of the site and nothing more can be done to make it a proper challenge to modern equipment. Even the shorter guys in our party thought it was nice quality but a bit boring.

 

That’s pretty typical of most of the courses around me. Kids aren’t interested if they can’t bomb driver on every hole so no kids play. Membership at my course has gone from over 600 to less than 200 in the last 10 years. The course owner can’t afford to keep the course going and is looking at mining the sand and gravel that’s left beneath to get something back from nearly 50 years of managing and running it. Our sister course already has planning permission for residential development. You can’t blame the owner...land for residential development is worth £1m/acre and we would all sell a failing business given those terms. Give it another 20 years and most courses will be flattened for houses and golf will become a niche sport played only by the very wealthy at exclusive clubs...again.

 

That is an objective summary of what the problem is. Perhaps that doesn’t matter to you because what I’ve described doesn’t really have an impact on how you play and look at the game, but it’s a very selfish and short-sighted view that is killing the game in the country that gave you the game in the first place.

The view you are presenting is very esoteric.  Most folks (men or women) I play golf with wouldn't even recognize or understand it.  To them all golf is hard.  Golf courses just present different aspects of hard.  I find golf as it currently exists endlessly challenging.  Maybe once I can execute the required shot at any time anywhere the challenge will cease.  I am not holding my breath on that occurring.

[QuigleyDU]

20 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Poor design is poor design...those courses don’t tend to stay around too long, particularly if they are unplayable.

 

I’ve said it before, but nobody seems to have noticed. The game is dying in the UK and it’s because the modern game cannot be played on the majority of our courses without it being a vastly diluted experience. I played a course 2 years ago that is in the top 100 courses where I used nothing longer than 7-iron for my second shot and I’m not that long. The tees are at the boundaries of the site and nothing more can be done to make it a proper challenge to modern equipment. Even the shorter guys in our party thought it was nice quality but a bit boring.

 

That’s pretty typical of most of the courses around me. Kids aren’t interested if they can’t bomb driver on every hole so no kids play. Membership at my course has gone from over 600 to less than 200 in the last 10 years. The course owner can’t afford to keep the course going and is looking at mining the sand and gravel that’s left beneath to get something back from nearly 50 years of managing and running it. Our sister course already has planning permission for residential development. You can’t blame the owner...land for residential development is worth £1m/acre and we would all sell a failing business given those terms. Give it another 20 years and most courses will be flattened for houses and golf will become a niche sport played only by the very wealthy at exclusive clubs...again.

 

That is an objective summary of what the problem is. Perhaps that doesn’t matter to you because what I’ve described doesn’t really have an impact on how you play and look at the game, but it’s a very selfish and short-sighted view that is killing the game in the country that gave you the game in the first place.

I recently played 7500 yard flat almost featureless course and played well, had fun but walked away feeling meh. I then played a 6200 yard tree lined tight course with lots of undulations, never had a flat lie, lots of elevation change and got my butt kicked but came off the course with my buddy talking about how much fun that course was. 
 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by QuigleyDU

[Emthree]

23 minutes ago, mahonie said:

I’ve said it before, but nobody seems to have noticed. The game is dying in the UK and it’s because the modern game cannot be played on the majority of our courses without it being a vastly diluted experience. The tees are at the boundaries of the site and nothing more can be done to make it a proper challenge to modern equipment. Even the shorter guys in our party thought it was nice quality but a bit boring.

 

You can’t blame the owner...land for residential development is worth £1m/acre and we would all sell a failing business given those terms. 

 

The game isn't dying at all, COVID has actually been incredible for it.

 

Golf courses are closing because the island is becoming overcrowded and land is worth far more as, you say, residential. It's not because everyone is suddenly bored of nudging it around Sunnindgale in 62. You must have a very solid group of +handicaps if you chaps cant find a challenge on anything under 7000 yards. However know that such a group is an infinitesimally small proportion of golfers and can't be used to argue the fact that most golfers need all the help they can get.

[Dr. Block]

 Golf will continue to dwindle for much the same reason that pool/billiards has completely died.  It’s hard.  It’s incredibly hard!  Peoples attention spans and levels of dedication aren’t getting any longer or stronger in this video-game social-media world we live in now, especially when it comes to leisure activities. Making golf any harder isn’t going to help it’s future, and changing the most exciting aspect of it won’t help it’s marketability.  
 

I sympathize with all my old-time appreciators of the art-of-golf, I really do.  Lets be thankful we can still choose to play with the equipment and in the style we want to, when we want to, and on any course (that’s still open) that we want to.  But let’s also be realistic about golf’s best direction forward within the context of the world we live in now.  That is an important distinction.  The soulful approach to most things is nearly dead and it won’t be revived.  It will, however, live on in certain circles, and we can always be thankful for that. 
 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Dr. Block

[bscinstnct]

Oh, couldn’t they just modify the limit on COR for drivers?

 

Yes, there is the answer and that can be done very easily and probably tuned very finely. 

 

There you go. 

[mahonie]

40 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

You have any proof about your claims that kids won't play because they can't bomb driver every hole?

 

Any evidence regarding why your membership is dwindling?

 

Sounds like your course was poorly designed if it is a bit boring to your friends, right?

 

You posted a lot of subjective feels, no evidence, no proof.  These types of subjective feels are what is fueling the distance rollback debate.  Meanwhile, largely logical fact based points of view are used to combat the reactionary desire to roll back distance but you are dismissing those rather than maybe understanding that a roll back of any kind causes lots of problems as well.

 

If you do seriously have some good evidence to back up what you just said as reasons why golf is hurting where you are at, post them.  I am interested to learn.  No sarcasm, seriously would.

I get it that if you enjoy the game the way it’s played now, you don’t want it changed. Golf is far easier now than it was 25 years ago and I can see why you don’t want to give that up. I’m 10 shots better now than I was 25 years ago but I get no sense of satisfaction out of it anymore...I don’t feel that I’ve earned it, if that makes sense. I can play to 10 picking the clubs up once in 6 months and not really enjoy it after playing avidly 2-3 times a week for years.

 

Perhaps it’s just me that finds the modern game boring and, thinking about it, perhaps I’ve just fallen out of love with it.

 

Winding you guys up on forums seems to be the only thing I enjoy about golf now and now that I’ve realised that, it’s a sad state of affairs and I think it’s time I put the keyboard in the back of the cupboard (with the golf clubs for a while).

 

Enjoy your golf 👍

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, QuigleyDU said:

The roll back is and will always be because of what we see on tour. It is a knee jerk reaction to the one percent of one percent. Arcos data is showing the golfing general public is getting shorter not longer.. now, those numbers are hard to extrapolate meaningful info from simple because we know nothing of the golfers.  
 

I have said before. If all golfers we measured this year I think you would see a significant drop in average driver distance. But is because of one reason. Lots and lots of brand new golfers tilting the scale.

A survey was taken recently and it found that the average drive of all golfers was 207 yards. They went on to break it down by handicaps...... Imagine a rollback.....LOL! Somebody has to look out for the 99%ers.

[clevited]

1 hour ago, mahonie said:

I get it that if you enjoy the game the way it’s played now, you don’t want it changed. Golf is far easier now than it was 25 years ago and I can see why you don’t want to give that up. I’m 10 shots better now than I was 25 years ago but I get no sense of satisfaction out of it anymore...I don’t feel that I’ve earned it, if that makes sense. I can play to 10 picking the clubs up once in 6 months and not really enjoy it after playing avidly 2-3 times a week for years.

 

Perhaps it’s just me that finds the modern game boring and, thinking about it, perhaps I’ve just fallen out of love with it.

 

Winding you guys up on forums seems to be the only thing I enjoy about golf now and now that I’ve realised that, it’s a sad state of affairs and I think it’s time I put the keyboard in the back of the cupboard (with the golf clubs for a while).

 

Enjoy your golf 👍

 

Its ok to view things differently, and to want the game to be different than what it is.  The good thing is, you can play with old equipment and enjoy that version of the game. It is wrong to expect everyone to view it the same way and if they don't tell them they just don't understand. Many of us do have experience with the old equipment.  One group claims it was like walking up hill both ways in chest deep snow, others that it wasn't hard at all and anyone can do it.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle I think.  

 

I do believe your courses are closing for other reasons, and that golf isn't being played by as many reasons, none of which are distance related.

 

My hope is that we can strike a balance.  I would think 1 or 2 throw back back tournaments for charity a year would be cool.  They can hold the tourneys at historic courses and as a result, perhaps OEMs will make limited run batches of wound balls and tiny headed clubs.  

 

Perhaps this sort of thing would start a bigger following and maybe down the road, the majority of people playing the game would approve of some sort of roll back.  The idea being, if the game is more entertaining to watch and play, its popularity should self fuel and grow.  

 

Don't let yourself fall out of love with the game. I doubt at all you have mastered every aspect of the game.   Why not pick one you struggle with and work on it.  Move to the next and the next and the next.  Travel the world and play as many different courses as you can if you are able.  Golf, even as it stands today, is a complicated and difficult game.  There is always something to learn and work on.

 

Heck, if you are really that good and bored with the game, then I say learn golf all over again opposite handed.  Maybe that will help make it fresh again and rekindle that love.

[QuigleyDU]

2 hours ago, mahonie said:

I get it that if you enjoy the game the way it’s played now, you don’t want it changed. Golf is far easier now than it was 25 years ago and I can see why you don’t want to give that up. I’m 10 shots better now than I was 25 years ago but I get no sense of satisfaction out of it anymore...I don’t feel that I’ve earned it, if that makes sense. I can play to 10 picking the clubs up once in 6 months and not really enjoy it after playing avidly 2-3 times a week for years.

 

Perhaps it’s just me that finds the modern game boring and, thinking about it, perhaps I’ve just fallen out of love with it.

 

Winding you guys up on forums seems to be the only thing I enjoy about golf now and now that I’ve realised that, it’s a sad state of affairs and I think it’s time I put the keyboard in the back of the cupboard (with the golf clubs for a while).

 

Enjoy your golf 👍

I am not convinced the game is easier. I have been playing for the past 25 years. There have been changes, but I am not seeing the game as easier.

[QuigleyDU]

34 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

A survey was taken recently and it found that the average drive of all golfers was 207 yards. They went on to break it down by handicaps...... Imagine a rollback.....LOL! Somebody has to look out for the 99%ers.

206 if total sound super close to what I would see. 170-180 carry with roll to 207..these guys can hit driver on almost every hope of the course and still not have enough distance..

 

but yeah, let’s roll back the ball...

[Nard_S]

Played today, drivable par 4,  guy puts it 8 feet from flag in dead center of green. A 305 poke with Epic driver. It's 50 degrees little wind and damp. His swing is nothing special either. He's 64.

[Dave230]

3 hours ago, mahonie said:

Poor design is poor design...those courses don’t tend to stay around too long, particularly if they are unplayable.

 

I’ve said it before, but nobody seems to have noticed. The game is dying in the UK and it’s because the modern game cannot be played on the majority of our courses without it being a vastly diluted experience. I played a course 2 years ago that is in the top 100 courses where I used nothing longer than 7-iron for my second shot and I’m not that long. The tees are at the boundaries of the site and nothing more can be done to make it a proper challenge to modern equipment. Even the shorter guys in our party thought it was nice quality but a bit boring.

 

That’s pretty typical of most of the courses around me. Kids aren’t interested if they can’t bomb driver on every hole so no kids play. Membership at my course has gone from over 600 to less than 200 in the last 10 years. The course owner can’t afford to keep the course going and is looking at mining the sand and gravel that’s left beneath to get something back from nearly 50 years of managing and running it. Our sister course already has planning permission for residential development. You can’t blame the owner...land for residential development is worth £1m/acre and we would all sell a failing business given those terms. Give it another 20 years and most courses will be flattened for houses and golf will become a niche sport played only by the very wealthy at exclusive clubs...again.

 

That is an objective summary of what the problem is. Perhaps that doesn’t matter to you because what I’ve described doesn’t really have an impact on how you play and look at the game, but it’s a very selfish and short-sighted view that is killing the game in the country that gave you the game in the first place.

I have heard about golf ‘dying’ for years but it’s really never come about. Government policy and the virus is killing it momentarily in Ireland (courses closed again) but before that my home club gained 30-35 members this year, mainly young people. People really appreciated golf during this pandemic as a safe sport that has a lot of qualities. And I never heard anyone say the game was too easy because of equipment. You are far more likely to hear people give up golf because it’s too hard than it’s too easy or you hit it too far.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Dave230

[Soloman1]

33 minutes ago, QuigleyDU said:

I am not convinced the game is easier. I have been playing for the past 25 years. There have been changes, but I am not seeing the game as easier.

My irons and probably some sweaters are older than you . . . 🙂

[Titleist99]

39 minutes ago, QuigleyDU said:

206 if total sound super close to what I would see. 170-180 carry with roll to 207..these guys can hit driver on almost every hope of the course and still not have enough distance..

 

but yeah, let’s roll back the ball...

At the low end they had a 22 handicapper at 170-180 at the low end and scratch at an (average) of 245. As well as I can remember.

[QuigleyDU]

13 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

My irons and probably some sweaters are older than you . . . 🙂

Not by much I am sure..

[Titleist99]

27 minutes ago, Dave230 said:

I have heard about golf ‘dying’ for years but it’s really never come about. Government policy and the virus is killing it momentarily in Ireland (courses closed again) but before that my home club gained 30-35 members this year, mainly young people. People really appreciated golf during this pandemic as a safe sport that has a lot of qualities. And I never heard anyone say the game was too easy because of equipment. You are far more likely to hear people give up golf because it’s too hard than it’s too easy or you hit it too far.

Two things that I've never heard on the golf course is:

My golf ball go's too far.

Golf is too easy.

[QuigleyDU]

 

[oikos1]

3 hours ago, mahonie said:

I get it that if you enjoy the game the way it’s played now, you don’t want it changed. Golf is far easier now than it was 25 years ago and I can see why you don’t want to give that up. I’m 10 shots better now than I was 25 years ago but I get no sense of satisfaction out of it anymore...I don’t feel that I’ve earned it, if that makes sense. I can play to 10 picking the clubs up once in 6 months and not really enjoy it after playing avidly 2-3 times a week for years.

 

Perhaps it’s just me that finds the modern game boring and, thinking about it, perhaps I’ve just fallen out of love with it.

 

Winding you guys up on forums seems to be the only thing I enjoy about golf now and now that I’ve realised that, it’s a sad state of affairs and I think it’s time I put the keyboard in the back of the cupboard (with the golf clubs for a while).

 

Enjoy your golf 👍

 

"Perhaps it’s just me that finds the modern game boring and, thinking about it, perhaps I’ve just fallen out of love with it."

 

Unless you are shooting 59-64 every week, you absolutely have fallen out of love with it.  Thing is, you can play equipment from previous era's to rekindle that love.  Why are you so worried about everyone else and what they want to love?

[Shilgy]

21 hours ago, QuigleyDU said:

While I agree there are launch monitor numbers, and playing numbers. I can with 100% certainty (at least for me) the numbers are very close. If I am playing well and swinging free I would say they are the same. I do not believe a small headed driver these days will change anything in relation to ball speed potential or distance potential. There may be a case that they are less forgiving and therefore potentially more penal.

 

but!! Again only speaking for me personally, I have my mini driver as a could I hit when I want to hit a fairway. For me, playing it at 42’ in length with a 90 gram (pretty heavy right) shaft is almost automatic. I can swing aggressively and launch the ball higher and a bit straighter, only losing a few yards. For me it is a second driver. That is almost exclusively how I use it. I have it it from the fairway but not very often ( maybe 3 times ever). 
 

I think Tiger was right when he said the genie is out of the bottle. There is no clean way to roll it back, you also cannot continue to lengthen courses. Nor should you. You have to figure out a different way to challenge the best in the world. Because, that is 100% why there is the noise for change. I see people hit golf balls on a launch monitor daily. You know I see?? 80% of them have swings speed so slow and inefficient they hit every club above a 7 iron the same distance..about 170 yard carry..

I agree and will add....all a person needs to do is look at the pga tour stats for club head speed. The average of virtually every player is 95% of their fasted recorded swing. They might FEEL like they are going at it 80% but are most assuredly not. 
 

https://www.pgatour.com/content/pgatour/stats/stat.02401.y2020.html

[storm319]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Oh, couldn’t they just modify the limit on COR for drivers?

 

Yes, there is the answer and that can be done very easily and probably tuned very finely. 

 

There you go. 

 

And make nearly every driver and many fairway metals produced post-2000 non-conforming in the process. Then if regulations are bifurcated, having multiple versions of the same model available at retail to support both high and low COR regulations (similar to the .860 and .830 version of the TM R500 series). Doesn't seem simple to me. Attempting to rollback a single facet in effort to reduce gains caused by multiple facets will have unintended negative consequences.