Low Bounce K Vs Handground K

[SJP1]

I love K Grinds and play a 54K and a 58K. But, I'm keen to have a lower bounce K option in the 58 for tighter lies and firmer sand.

 

I'm wondering which is the best option between ordering a Low Bounce K, or, ordering a standard K with trailing edge and heel relief.

 

I suspect at 6* effective bounce the LBK could be too low bounce (my bad shots come from too much shaft lean). But, I'm wondering how much bounce a standard K with trailing edge relief will actually take off?

 

The handground option seems thge most sensible, but at a $75 upcharge, it's also not a cheap gamble.

 

Any feedback on these two welcome.

[Jokes]

I literally just got the hand ground with trailing edge and heel relief in a few days ago and love it thus far. I was the same as you and was too worried about too little bounce on the low bounce version so opted for the 14 degree bounce version. It is easy enough to manipulate the handle and take off bounce as needed for tight lies. 

[SJP1]

Thanks for the reply, appreciated. Does the trail edge relief help the leading edge sit lower to the ground?

[Valtiel]

That will largely depend on what you want to use the wedge for. Things like trailing edge and heel relief should be utilized if you want to manipulate the face without the effective bounce getting too high and the leading edge coming up too much. However, this still leaves you with more bounce up front, and that is not going to be the best for tight lies and firmer sand. You simply want lower bounce for that. Also remember, this is still a wide soled wedge, it is not going to dig just because of a low bounce number, there is still a lot of width there that will glide where other wedges will start to bury. 

[SJP1]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

That will largely depend on what you want to use the wedge for. Things like trailing edge and heel relief should be utilized if you want to manipulate the face without the effective bounce getting too high and the leading edge coming up too much. However, this still leaves you with more bounce up front, and that is not going to be the best for tight lies and firmer sand. You simply want lower bounce for that. Also remember, this is still a wide soled wedge, it is not going to dig just because of a low bounce number, there is still a lot of width there that will glide where other wedges will start to bury. 

 

This is exactly why I'm torn. 

I very, very rarely open the face on my 58 unless I'm severely short-sided and need to flop. Every other shot I play with the square face technique, including bunkers.

 

I also rarely hit a full shot with a 58, I use it for partial shots 90% of the time.

 

The shots where I feel I struggle with the standard 58K are firm or wet sand shots, particularly if it's extremely close range to a tucked pin, there's just too much bounce to nip it out in those conditions.

 

But I also don't want to remove so much bounce and am wondering if a Low Bounce K won't be great in softer, fluffier sand.

[Valtiel]

1 minute ago, SJP1 said:

 

This is exactly why I'm torn. 

I very, very rarely open the face on my 58 unless I'm severely short-sided and need to flop. Every other shot I play with the square face technique, including bunkers.

 

I also rarely hit a full shot with a 58, I use it for partial shots 90% of the time.

 

The shots where I feel I struggle with the standard 58K are firm or wet sand shots, particularly if it's extremely close range to a tucked pin, there's just too much bounce to nip it out in those conditions.

 

But I also don't want to remove so much bounce and am wondering if a Low Bounce K won't be great in softer, fluffier sand.

The low bounce K has always been great in soft sand for me. The sole width is way more the factor there than the bounce. You could have 20* of bounce on a narrow soled wedge and it would still suck out of soft sand, and 1* of bounce on a wide soled wedge and it would work pretty well. But honestly, I wouldn't use any wide soled wedge out of firm or wet sand, it is just the wrong tool regardless of bounce. In order to nip something off that type of surface, you want less sole width for the same reason you want more with soft sand. An S-grind would be better suited for that purpose. 

[SJP1]

Out of interest, how do you play delicate greenside trap shots out of firm or wet sand?

 

Your WITB has a LBK and and relatively wide-soled 54 with a full grind.

[SJP1]

24 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

The low bounce K has always been great in soft sand for me. The sole width is way more the factor there than the bounce. You could have 20* of bounce on a narrow soled wedge and it would still suck out of soft sand, and 1* of bounce on a wide soled wedge and it would work pretty well. But honestly, I wouldn't use any wide soled wedge out of firm or wet sand, it is just the wrong tool regardless of bounce. In order to nip something off that type of surface, you want less sole width for the same reason you want more with soft sand. An S-grind would be better suited for that purpose. 

 

Out of interest, how do you play delicate greenside trap shots out of firm or wet sand?

 

Your WITB has a LBK and a relatively wide-soled 54 with a full grind.

[Valtiel]

2 minutes ago, SJP1 said:

 

Out of interest, how do you play delicate greenside trap shots out of firm or wet sand?

 

Your WITB has a LBK and a relatively wide-soled 54 with a full grind.

The 54 is actually fairly narrow, it is a precursor to the S-grind really and it is an all purpose wedge for me. 

For those conditions I actually have a 62* V-grind that I would have in the bag that is not listed in my sig right now. I would swap the 3/5-wood setup for a single 4-wood and add the wedge if I knew the bunker conditions were going to be wet/firm, and I would still play it like a normal bunker shot, albeit with the necessary adjustments for the lie e.g. a little more speed and firmer hands. If the sand was just completely packed with no possibility of hitting an explosion shot then I would just pick it clean like a chip off a firm lie. 

[SJP1]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

The 54 is actually fairly narrow, it is a precursor to the S-grind really and it is an all purpose wedge for me. 

For those conditions I actually have a 62* V-grind that I would have in the bag that is not listed in my sig right now. I would swap the 3/5-wood setup for a single 4-wood and add the wedge if I knew the bunker conditions were going to be wet/firm, and I would still play it like a normal bunker shot, albeit with the necessary adjustments for the lie e.g. a little more speed and firmer hands. If the sand was just completely packed with no possibility of hitting an explosion shot then I would just pick it clean like a chip off a firm lie. 

 

Thanks. Could you detail why you prefer the LBK over the standard K in terms of actual situations on the course and what the LBK helps with Vs the standard?

 

Thanks for your input, appreciate your info

[Valtiel]

9 minutes ago, SJP1 said:

 

Thanks. Could you detail why you prefer the LBK over the standard K in terms of actual situations on the course and what the LBK helps with Vs the standard?

 

Thanks for your input, appreciate your info

No problem! For me, a wide sole AND higher bounce is just overkill. Wide soles dig far less regardless of bounce, so I don't need the "help" of a bunch of bounce as well and i'd rather have it closer to the ground for versatility if I need it knowing that the wide/cambered sole will still offer plenty of digging forgiveness. I have a small amount of heel relief on my low bounce K as well for extra versatility. I think the standard K-grind is great for overly soft conditions and to help us amateurs get out of the bunker, and if I knew the course was going to be soggy and I had a standard K-grind around I would use it, but I don't live in a wet part of the country and never had problems in bunkers, so it doesn't make sense for me. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Valtiel

[Stetson]

I have one of the Vokey "Links K" wedges that they put out as a "prototype" a few years back.  I love that wedge so much, more than any I've owned but it has been moved to the bench as the grooves are past their prime.  I wish that it were a standard grind for Vokey as I think it is perfect at 4* of effective bounce yet it almost dig proof in softer conditions.  

 

I am hopeful that the extreme low bounce (4*) option on the new Cleveland Raw Zipcore will be similar.  On the Cleveland site this is available as a preorder bounce/grind option.

[jmck]

If you want to give it a try on the

cheap, pick up a spin milled 58.04 from back before Vokey was putting letters on their grinds. More or less the same sole as a modern low bounce K.