Speed

[ncalgolf]

So my kids are still pretty young but we do regular exercise just because I want them to learn about keeping a healthy body and all the benefits it has for you. 

 

At what age do you get serious about an exercising to improve your golf game (personal trainer) etc?

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, ncalgolf said:

So my kids are still pretty young but we do regular exercise just because I want them to learn about keeping a healthy body and all the benefits it has for you. 

 

At what age do you get serious about an exercising to improve your golf game (personal trainer) etc?

 

Puberty

[wildcatden]

4 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Puberty

6 hours ago, ncalgolf said:

So my kids are still pretty young but we do regular exercise just because I want them to learn about keeping a healthy body and all the benefits it has for you. 

 

At what age do you get serious about an exercising to improve your golf game (personal trainer) etc?

 

Agree with leeezer99. Prior to puberty, my brief study on the subject (I'm no expert) says that lifting heavy weights can be detrimental to body development. So doing things like dead lift, bench press, curls, and squats with heavy weights is a no-no.   That being said, exercises that can be done with their own body weight should be fine. This would be things like vertical/box jumps, broad jumps, push-ups (wouldn't overdo it), and tossing a medicine ball (6lbs max for my 9YO).  You should/can also include exercises that promote flexibility.  Bottom line....keep it fun.

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by wildcatden

[Kcct82]

I’m no expert and I don’t know the answer, but my soon to be 8 year old has been working with Par4Success online for 6-7 months now. He has gotten stronger and gained a little bit of swing speed. His SS is no where near fast, but about average (perhaps 30 yards short of elite?) for an 8 year old. 
 

At first, I was pretty hell bent on getting his SS up, but now that we’ve played a couple of tournaments I’d recommend working on other ways to lower scores. We spent lots of time working on other aspects of his game along with fitness during the covid break, and we’re now seeing good results. To put things in perspective, my kid played his first Boys 8 tournament (300 yards longer) a few weeks ago at 7 years and 10 months old. He shot the best score between all 1845 yards players, which included five kids from Boys 8 and ten kids in Boys 9. The two 9 YO’s we were grouped with bombed it 40 yards past my kid to finish 2 strokes behind him. My kid kept up with the longer hitters with his short game. And then it almost happened again 2 days ago at my kid’s 2nd tournament. He shot 2 under for the win in Boys 8, and only 1 stroke behind the winner of Boys 9 playing the same yardage. 
 

We’ll continue to work with Par4Success to get some exercise in, but perhaps cap the weights to be safe. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried about the potential harm to his body. 

[leezer99]

20 hours ago, Kcct82 said:

I’m no expert and I don’t know the answer, but my soon to be 8 year old has been working with Par4Success online for 6-7 months now. He has gotten stronger and gained a little bit of swing speed. His SS is no where near fast, but about average (perhaps 30 yards short of elite?) for an 8 year old. 
 

At first, I was pretty hell bent on getting his SS up, but now that we’ve played a couple of tournaments I’d recommend working on other ways to lower scores. We spent lots of time working on other aspects of his game along with fitness during the covid break, and we’re now seeing good results. To put things in perspective, my kid played his first Boys 8 tournament (300 yards longer) a few weeks ago at 7 years and 10 months old. He shot the best score between all 1845 yards players, which included five kids from Boys 8 and ten kids in Boys 9. The two 9 YO’s we were grouped with bombed it 40 yards past my kid to finish 2 strokes behind him. My kid kept up with the longer hitters with his short game. And then it almost happened again 2 days ago at my kid’s 2nd tournament. He shot 2 under for the win in Boys 8, and only 1 stroke behind the winner of Boys 9 playing the same yardage. 
 

We’ll continue to work with Par4Success to get some exercise in, but perhaps cap the weights to be safe. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried about the potential harm to his body. 

 

STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE SCORES OF AN 8 YEAR OLD.  I GUARANTEE THAT THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CARE ARE YOU AND YOUR SON.  JUST MAKE IT FUN.  (ALL EASIER SAID THAN DONE)

 

edited for: @TripleBogeysrbetter

Edited October 7, 2020 by leezer99

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

7 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Stop worrying about the scores of an 8 year old.  I guarantee that the only people that care are you and your son.  Just make it fun.  (All easier said than done)

Can you repost this and put it in all CAPS.

 

The fact that an 8 year old wants to play golf is amazing in its own right.

[Medson]

10 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE SCORES OF AN 8 YEAR OLD.  I GUARANTEE THAT THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CARE ARE YOU AND YOUR SON.  JUST MAKE IT FUN.  (ALL EASIER SAID THAN DONE)

 

edited for: @TripleBogeysrbetter

I’m printing this out and put it in my wallet. I need to read this constantly when I caddie for my kid in tournaments. 

[Kcct82]

11 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE SCORES OF AN 8 YEAR OLD.  I GUARANTEE THAT THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CARE ARE YOU AND YOUR SON.  JUST MAKE IT FUN.  (ALL EASIER SAID THAN DONE)

 

edited for: @TripleBogeysrbetter

I get your drift. My kid is having fun though. I think we can all agree that having a certain amount of proficiency does make the game of golf even more enjoyable. 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

I am starting to think maybe drills that improve sprinting speed would be useful for golfers

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

I am starting to think maybe drills that improve sprinting speed would be useful for golfers

Sprinting Speed has zero correlation.  

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

11 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Sprinting Speed has zero correlation.  

Thinking more along the lines of, the muscles used to increase sprinting speed/power are are the ones used to generate clubhead speed

[heavy_hitter]

17 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

Thinking more along the lines of, the muscles used to increase sprinting speed/power are are the ones used to generate clubhead speed

There is another thread here that talks about this.  There is nothing about running/sprinting that will help produce speed in the golf swing.  This comes from more than one study including TPI and Par4Success.

[jackdanger]

Shameless plug of a guy I don't even use his premium app for but have been following on Twitter that could definitely help you out here: @Fit_For_Golf

 

His exercises are all very dynamic, so I think they'd be great for kids too, and about generating speed in the golf swing. He's gotten pretty big over the last few months while picking up pros as clients and some of the bigger teaching personalities quoting his research and workout ideas

 

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

Thinking more along the lines of, the muscles used to increase sprinting speed/power are are the ones used to generate clubhead speed

 

Believe it or not, and don't care if you don't, the 3 most important predictors of distance in juniors and females is chest, upper body strength, and jumps.  Chest is #1.

[Kcct82]

10 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Believe it or not, and don't care if you don't, the 3 most important predictors of distance in juniors and females is chest, upper body strength, and jumps.  Chest is #1.

I’ve seen you say chest is number one a few times. What’s the reason behind this? Everyone seems to be all about lower body and core. I do think kids in general have weaker upper bodies though. 

[heavy_hitter]

9 minutes ago, Kcct82 said:

I’ve seen you say chest is number one a few times. What’s the reason behind this? Everyone seems to be all about lower body and core. I do think kids in general have weaker upper bodies though. 

A study was done by par4success.  Chris Finn is a contributor on WRX and has been in the junior section in the past.  He also appears on Sirius XM PGA network frequently as well as writes TPI articles.  He used to work with my son and would do zoom meetings.  He mentions this in several studies that you can research online as well as his YouTube videos.  It is not the number 1 predictor for late male teens and men.  Chest and upper body strength is number 1 for juniors and females.

 

Here is one of the articles.

 

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/fitness/how_powerful_are_you_compared_to_golfers_your_age

Edited October 14, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[heavy_hitter]

11 minutes ago, Kcct82 said:

I’ve seen you say chest is number one a few times. What’s the reason behind this? Everyone seems to be all about lower body and core. I do think kids in general have weaker upper bodies though. 

 

And trust me, I was shocked when I read that information for the first time.

[wildcatden]

28 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

A study was done by par4success.  Chris Finn is a contributor on WRX and has been in the junior section in the past.  He also appears on Sirius XM PGA network frequently as well as writes TPI articles.  He used to work with my son and would do zoom meetings.  He mentions this in several studies that you can research online as well as his YouTube videos.  It is not the number 1 predictor for late male teens and men.  Chest and upper body strength is number 1 for juniors and females.

 

Here is one of the articles.

 

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/fitness/how_powerful_are_you_compared_to_golfers_your_age

 

 

What's the #1 predictor for late male teens and men? 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

22 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

A study was done by par4success.  Chris Finn is a contributor on WRX and has been in the junior section in the past.  He also appears on Sirius XM PGA network frequently as well as writes TPI articles.  He used to work with my son and would do zoom meetings.  He mentions this in several studies that you can research online as well as his YouTube videos.  It is not the number 1 predictor for late male teens and men.  Chest and upper body strength is number 1 for juniors and females.

 

Here is one of the articles.

 

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/fitness/how_powerful_are_you_compared_to_golfers_your_age

so (just thinking out loud)...the correlations for "chest and upper body strength" being the biggest determinant factor for club head speed might be due to the fact that those measurements (shot put and seated chest pass in particular) are going to be directly correlated with bigger, stronger juniors in general, including kids who just physically matured earlier

 

unless they are adjusting for junior golfer's size (height/weight) I would think that those correlations are going to be misleading; the biggest red flag is that you specifically state "it is not the number 1 predictor for late male teens and men"

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

so (just thinking out loud)...the correlations for "chest and upper body strength" being the biggest determinant factor for club head speed might be due to the fact that those measurements (shot put and seated chest pass in particular) are going to be directly correlated with bigger, stronger juniors in general, including kids who just physically matured earlier

 

unless they are adjusting for junior golfer's size (height/weight) I would think that those correlations are going to be misleading; the biggest red flag is that you specifically state "it is not the number 1 predictor for late male teens and men"

Do your thing man.  All I know is you are wrong and have the studies and science to prove it.  

Edited October 15, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[Kcct82]

8 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

A study was done by par4success.  Chris Finn is a contributor on WRX and has been in the junior section in the past.  He also appears on Sirius XM PGA network frequently as well as writes TPI articles.  He used to work with my son and would do zoom meetings.  He mentions this in several studies that you can research online as well as his YouTube videos.  It is not the number 1 predictor for late male teens and men.  Chest and upper body strength is number 1 for juniors and females.

 

Here is one of the articles.

 

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/fitness/how_powerful_are_you_compared_to_golfers_your_age

Thanks for the info. My kid has been working with Alex from Par4Success since April. We never heard anything about chest strength from her though. Our program seems to be well rounded and works the whole body equally. 

[heavy_hitter]

4 hours ago, Kcct82 said:

Thanks for the info. My kid has been working with Alex from Par4Success since April. We never heard anything about chest strength from her though. Our program seems to be well rounded and works the whole body equally. 

They never tested?  That was the first thing they did then built the program around the throws and pushes.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

14 hours ago, Kcct82 said:

I’ve seen you say chest is number one a few times. What’s the reason behind this? Everyone seems to be all about lower body and core. I do think kids in general have weaker upper bodies though. 

I think you are right that most have weaker upper bodies relative to legs/core.  I am guessing those who have stronger chests are just stronger overall and the swing speed is therefore higher.  Correlation not causation.  I've never seen a golf training program focused on working the chest.  Always core, balance, flex/mobility.

[leezer99]

54 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

I think you are right that most have weaker upper bodies relative to legs/core.  I am guessing those who have stronger chests are just stronger overall and the swing speed is therefore higher.  Correlation not causation.  I've never seen a golf training program focused on working the chest.  Always core, balance, flex/mobility.

 

All the data and information from Chris is here: How Powerful Are You Compared to Golfers Your Age? | Article | TPI (mytpi.com)

 

You can decide from there.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

7 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

All the data and information from Chris is here: How Powerful Are You Compared to Golfers Your Age? | Article | TPI (mytpi.com)

 

You can decide from there.

thanks - I read the article when it was posted here earlier

 

there seems to be a misunderstanding in the responses (including maybe this one), since no one is refuting the data: bigger, stronger kids and women are going to have higher clubhead speed; that doesn't tell us anything about how we should be training for speed, which was the original question you asked in the first place

 

 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Since everyone always says TPI TPI.  We have to remember as well you should have a TPI assessment which is a 16-point physical screen, which is a comprehensive of strength, mobility, and functional movement patterns specific to the golf swing.  Not all golfer have the same mobility.  What might work for your son or daughter might not work for mine.

 

You should also really ensure you find someone that truly understands what an exercise is suppose to do and the muscles it trains.  The last thing you want is to train all winter and lose 5 MPH of SS.

[Kcct82]

9 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

They never tested?  That was the first thing they did then built the program around the throws and pushes.

Yes, they did test him. We tested almost every month. Our program just didn’t seem to be heavy on the upper body. I’d say it’s pretty even between upper, core, and legs. Oh well, I’m sure they know what they’re doing with him, and club head speed did go up so everything is good. 

[heavy_hitter]

18 hours ago, Kcct82 said:

Yes, they did test him. We tested almost every month. Our program just didn’t seem to be heavy on the upper body. I’d say it’s pretty even between upper, core, and legs. Oh well, I’m sure they know what they’re doing with him, and club head speed did go up so everything is good. 

 

Stability first then strength.  Strength without stability is an injury waiting to happen.

Edited October 16, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[Palmetto Golfer]

Thank you for everyone that has contributed. Just thought I would add some info as my son has been working with Par4Success for the last year so I wanted to give a short review of their program.

 

So far, it has been a great experience for my son.  He loves it so much that he gets up at 6:00am every morning to work out before school. He actually has now gotten me up early so I can work out as well.  In the last year his testing numbers have really shot up. Weight up 13lbs. Vertical jump up 7". Seated chest pass up 6'. Shot put up 8'. Swing speed up 22 mph.

 

In full disclosure, he is 14 y/o (puberty time!) and has grown 4" in the last year as well. So, naturally I would of assumed his numbers would have gone up some even if he was not on a workout program. How much as Par4Success increased those numbers...hard to say. But it certainly hasn't hurt. At a minimum, it has given him more confidence and additional strength other than what he would have gotten as he has grown.

 

We have been so impressed with Alex that I can't wait for my younger son to start it this summer. He is 12 and has been asking to do it for the last 6 months. If your son is serious about athletics, then I would highly recommend this program.

 

[heavy_hitter]

I started my kid on the Tom House Throwing program two weeks ago.  Have seen more success with this protocol than any other, FOR MY KID.  I can't stress this enough because things will work differently for on kid than another.  EXACTLY two week ago Sunday he started.  At the end of the session I pulled out the Mevo and had him hit 10 drives.  Threw out the highest because I felt it was a misread. Top swing speed was 106.  Average was 104.7.  On Sunday he wanted to pull out the Mevo after the protocol.  Top speed was 109.9 and average was 108.1.  Didn't throw out the 109.9 because he was hitting over 109 on 4 of the swings.