Is it time to limit the length of drivers in the equipment rules?

[Sean2]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Since most don't use anything approaching 48 inches I guess I don't see the issue, but I'm assuming without knowing anything about engineering that other limitations on certain aspects of driver heads/faces/composition may not allow configuration of something that allows using a 48 inch driver with the consistency of something shorter?  Didn't stay in a Holiday Express, but have had 2 cups of coffee, and if I'm not making sense someone who knows real stuff about club design is welcome to set me right!

The OEM's are all about hawking distance. If a 48-inch driver was a game changer I am sure they would already be in the stores. 

[Pepperturbo]

@2bGood I regret to inform you, there are a number of people that use 47 & 48" playing length drivers.  I know two guys, both Asian, mid-single digit players.  They be short in stature too, yet wield their really long rubber-band drivers rather well.  Both of them know a few others that play long drivers.  I believe there may be some women tackling long sticks too.  

 

Personally, I don't care if someone plays a 50" driver, if they wield it - good for them.  I am sure they will pick up some yards.

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

@2bGood I regret to inform you, there are a number of people that use 47 & 48" playing length drivers.  I know two guys, both Asian, mid-single digit players.  They be short in stature too, yet wield their really long rubber-band drivers rather well.  Both of them know a few others that play long drivers.  I believe there may be some women tackling long sticks too.  

 

Personally, I don't care if someone plays a 50" driver, if they wield it - good for them.  I am sure they will pick up some yards.

I would still say it is a very small percentage of players player the longer drivers. I suspect it would be a no issue if the lowered the length to 46, maybe in even 45. 

[Pepperturbo]

18 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I would still say it is a very small percentage of players player the longer drivers. I suspect it would be a no issue if the lowered the length to 46, maybe in even 45. 

 

You're right they are a sliver segment.  But I am pretty sure the short guys I know would react.  They are hitting it 250 because of the length.  Like all equipmetn reverted to older specs, people would complain.  I would complain, as shaft technology and ball are the key reasons I am hitting driver 250 and hitting 3i 195.

 

Force them to use shorter drivers, they wouldn't hit it nearly as far. 

[ThinkingPlus]

8 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

 

You're right they are a sliver segment.  But I am pretty sure the short guys I know would react.  They are hitting it 250 because of the length.  Like all equipmetn reverted to older specs, people would complain.  I would complain, as shaft technology and ball are the key reasons I am hitting driver 250 and hitting 3i 195.

 

Force them to use shorter drivers, they wouldn't hit it nearly as far. 

But that's OK, they can just move up a tee. 😉

 

[Pepperturbo]

23 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

But that's OK, they can just move up a tee. 😉

 

 

See, that's where we differ.  Moving what already exists in a backward direction is NOT good for the game.  And, my friends and I are not moving up a tee.  Fact is, NOBODY should care about what length driver shaft they use. 

 

Think of it this way... I don't need help from strong lofts or spinning the ball with big sharp grooves.  Imagine if we said YOU all need to learn how to hit the ball with weaker lofts and spin the ball with smaller grooves, or quit the game.

[ThinkingPlus]

22 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

 

See, that's where we differ.  Moving what already exists in a backward direction is NOT good for the game.  And, my friends and I are not moving up a tee.  Fact is, NOBODY should care about what length driver shaft they use. 

 

Think of it this way... I don't need help from strong lofts or spinning the ball with big sharp grooves.  Imagine if we said YOU all need to learn how to hit the ball with weaker lofts and spin the ball with smaller grooves, or quit the game.

Sorry, but you misunderstood the post.  I was being somewhat sarcastic for the rest of the folks who think that is a solution.  That is why I put the emoji at the end.

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Sorry, but you misunderstood the post.  I was being somewhat sarcastic for the rest of the folks who think that is a solution.  That is why I put the emoji at the end.

 

No problem. 

[Pepperturbo]

On 10/10/2020 at 12:38 PM, Sean2 said:

The OEM's are all about hawking distance. If a 48-inch driver was a game changer I am sure they would already be in the stores. 

 

Longer length driver shafts are a game changer.  But it makes marketing sense they are aftermarket as opposed to retail because the average golfer doesn't take the needed time to develop the proper tempo to make a 47-50" driver shaft work. 

[Bob Pegram]

Proposals to limit driver length assume average golfer body size and proportions. That isn't always the case. I am 6'1", but I have very long legs and a shorter torso. That raises my hands farther from the ground. I have a back that can no longer take the simultaneous bent over and hip twisted impact position I could do when I was younger. I also have a relatively flat swing plane in line with my shoulders. All of those factors individually increase the length of clubs I need. Cumulatively they demand substantially longer clubs. I now use a 47 inch driver, 45 inch 3wood, 44 inch 5wood and irons with a 39-1/2 inch 5iron and other irons with proportional lengths. They are all X-flex graphite. They protect my back. Do I hit the ball farther than I would otherwise? Maybe a little, but I could always hit the ball far even with regular length clubs - even a 44-1/4 inch driver with a titanium head and a steel shaft that I used 20 years ago. Mostly the long clubs are for comfort. I am 71 and hit the ball anywhere from 250 to 280 or so under normal conditions. I have always hit it that far. I swing a VERY heavy practice club 70 reps every evening. It is way heavier than any heavy practice clubs available in the market. I am very strong and very loose. I work to stay in shape. Why should my back be put in jeopardy because some people don't like that fact that some people stay in good condition and/or get in very good physical condition and can hit the ball farther than most?

P.S. Thanks to GolfWrx for all the articles on the technical aspects of clubs. The article on centers of gravity of various driver heads helped me pick a great driver head and matching fairway woods (Callaway Big Bertha 816 Alpha DBD). That would be a good article to update with the most current heads.

[Bob Pegram]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:52 AM, caniac6 said:

I would love to try a shaft that is 3 wood length that is specific for a driver, not just a driver shaft cut down to that length. I might give up a small bit of distance on my absolute best hits, but I bet I would hit the center of the clubface more often.

There are a few 15 degree loft drivers available on Ebay. They have a deep face unlike a fairway wood.

[golfandtennisfan]

I don't think it is needed myself. Except at the highest levels, the longer the driver, the less consistent the golfer in my experience. Yes, stock driver lengths have increased over the years and encouraged as the avg player only remembers that one in 10  that it helped them. Human nature I guess.

 

As someone else said if the pros could hit a 43" driver in play every time, I am sure they would all be playing length. Even they are creeping up in length on average.

[2bGood]

Phil just announced he is working with a 47.5" driver. I may have been too late getting this idea into the public realm. 

 

I tend to think the ruling bodies are going to miss the window to get this done without significant disruption 

 

[2bGood]

I guess the USGA follows WRX as I am sure they got this idea from me. 😉

 

Great time to revive this thread as now the USGA is looking into this idea.

[Augster]

I say roll it all back. They dropped the ball when they allowed “woods” to become metal. Then they allowed the size of the head to get bigger and bigger. Roll the head size back to the size of the last persimmon before metal driver heads and roll it back to persimmon. Or metal with the same size and COR of persimmon. Limit driver length to 43.5” and no more graphite shafts. All shafts are metal or wood. 
 

Roll it all back and start over. 
 

And, amazingly (not), the best players will still be the best players. Your recreational golfer already stinks at golf, so them shooting 2-5 shots worse isn’t a big deal. It might be harder to break 90, and if that’s important to you, move up a set. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

On 10/5/2020 at 10:33 AM, North Butte said:

Easy way to handle this. Condition of Competition at Tour events. Hit a shot over 300 yards, that's a 2-stroke penalty.

 

Problem solved.

Yup. Just paint a line at 330 or whatever distance and penalize for hitting it past. I say that mostly being silly but it would work. Nor impact  our equipment. 🙂

 

To answer 2bGood. Would it be unfair to very tall people to limit shaft length? Seems wrong for a guy that's 6'7" to be limited to the same as a person that's 5'7".   I think there's more effective ways to dial back distance.

Edited February 5, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[storm319]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:38 PM, rexroh said:

I know this is about drivers but I use a 48 inch putter. So do a few others. Are proposing length for all clubs or just drivers or are otters exempted. 

Putters are exempt from the current max length rule and I doubt that will change if this proposal is adopted.

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Yup. Just paint a line at 330 or whatever distance and penalize for hitting it past. I say that mostly being silly but it would work. Nor impact  our equipment. 🙂

 

To answer 2bGood. Would it be unfair to very tall people to limit shaft length? Seems wrong for a guy that's 6'7" to be limited to the same as a person that's 5'7".   I think there's more effective ways to dial back distance.

I am not sure what your argument is- are you suggesting making club length limited a factor of height somehow?

 

Club length limit is currently a specific number (48") and not based on height. So a tall guy already has the same limit as a shorter guy. I am suggesting capping it at 46" as it in uncommon to see the longer shafts anyway.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

28 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

I am not sure what your argument is- are you suggesting making club length limited a factor of height somehow?

 

Club length limit is currently a specific number (48") and not based on height. So a tall guy already has the same limit as a shorter guy. I am suggesting capping it at 46" as it in uncommon to see the longer shafts anyway.

Let me clarify--- I'd say leave it as is at 48" because to limit it even more creates more problems for taller people.  Imagine a person like @Bob Pegram (posted above) were 6'6" instead of 6'1" with back problems.  He's already using a 47" driver for physical reasons and capping it at 46" only makes the problem worse for him.  That's really the extent of what I was getting at.

Edited February 5, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[cval]

On 10/12/2020 at 11:12 AM, Pepperturbo said:

 

See, that's where we differ.  Moving what already exists in a backward direction is NOT good for the game.  And, my friends and I are not moving up a tee.  Fact is, NOBODY should care about what length driver shaft they use. 

 

Think of it this way... I don't need help from strong lofts or spinning the ball with big sharp grooves.  Imagine if we said YOU all need to learn how to hit the ball with weaker lofts and spin the ball with smaller grooves, or quit the game.

You would have not have to move up a tee they would be moved up for you. 

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, cval said:

You would have not have to move up a tee they would be moved up for you. 

You presume, not prudent.  The vast majority of us will NOT fall in line cause some weasel that can't play the game wants to play shorter tees. 

[cval]

10 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

You presume, not prudent.  The vast majority of us will NOT fall in line cause some weasel that can't play the game wants to play shorter tees. 

What? If the balls goes 10% shorter you can compensate by making the Tee box shorter to adjust net even. Nothing to do with a any weasel. What it might do is bring back some historical courses or prevent the need to build 8,000 yard courses. 

 

The change will not effect the non professional at all expect for bragging rights on length of the drives. You will still be playing the tips and essentially the course the same way as before. 

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, cval said:

What? If the balls goes 10% shorter you can compensate by making the Tee box shorter to adjust net even. Nothing to do with a any weasel. What it might do is bring back some historical courses or prevent the need to build 8,000 yard courses. 

 

The change will not effect the non professional at all expect for bragging rights on length of the drives. You will still be playing the tips and essentially the course the same way as before. 

I don't see any entity taking it upon themselves to making decisions that affect golf and golfers worldwide. 

 

A few acquaintances own golf courses.  It's been discussed extensively.  We believe course length and tees will be left to owner discretion.  Personally, I been working out since HS, so quite familiar with the physiology or how big muscles can get before size has a derogatory effect on the golf swing.  To that point, don't see tour players physically getting stronger than they are now, or Tour stops adding more course length either, unless they have the funds and or the property and deem it individually necessary. 

 

USGA and R&A can make up potential problems and pontifical on them to remain relevant all they want.  They will NOT be given control of Golf & clubs and equipment around the world.  Short hitters will remain short and those of us that frequent gyms and hit the ball longer - will keep doing that.   Have a good day.

[Sean2]

@PepperturboI still say the powers that be are looking for a solution in chase of a problem. 

[Sean2]

ps: I have no intention of changing my equipment, no matter what they decide. 

[cval]

12 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I don't see any entity taking it upon themselves to making decisions that affect golf and golfers worldwide. 

 

A few acquaintances own golf courses.  It's been discussed extensively.  We believe course length and tees will be left to owner discretion.  Personally, I been working out since HS, so quite familiar with the physiology or how big muscles can get before size has a derogatory effect on the golf swing.  To that point, don't see tour players physically getting stronger than they are now, or Tour stops adding more course length either, unless they have the funds and or the property and deem it individually necessary. 

 

USGA and R&A can make up potential problems and pontifical on them to remain relevant all they want.  They will NOT be given control of Golf & clubs and equipment around the world.  Short hitters will remain short and those of us that frequent gyms and hit the ball longer - will keep doing that.   Have a good day.

Not sure what that's got anything to do with what I posted.

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

21 minutes ago, Sean2 said:

ps: I have no intention of changing my equipment, no matter what they decide. 

I can virtually guarantee that none of out equipment will be deemed illegal anytime soon if ever. 

[ThinkingPlus]

4 hours ago, cval said:

Not sure what that's got anything to do with what I posted.

 

 

He is saying that existing golf courses will not change.  Tees will not be moved forward and new more forward tee boxes will not be built.  The golf course owners make those decisions and they aren't going to spend time, effort, or money just because the RBs have a bee up their bonnet over distance. 

[2bGood]

 

 

4 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I can virtually guarantee that none of out equipment will be deemed illegal anytime soon if ever. 

 5-10 years maybe??? If anything changes there will be a grandfather period for non-elite golfers much like the groove rule change. 

[Nels55]

Well, I recently lengthened my driver to 47.5 inches and I like the effect.  I can swing just a little bit smoother and still get the same distance.  I really like the club better then I did before I added an inch and a half or so.  For the moment the longer shaft seems to be working for me. 

 

I suspect the decreasing the maximum allowable length is most likely to hurt golfers like me who don't hit it all that far to begin with.  Whatever though, I don't think it is all that big of a deal and if the max length does change I will deal with it.  

 

Hmmm, maybe they should limit the max length to 37 or 38 inches which would make a true single length set viable!  I did play a 40 inch driver for a while and I could hit it a fairly reasonable distance for me.  The problem was that I was rather wild with it as I was swinging really hard.  LOL you just can't win for losing!