KHT Autoflex shaft

[Golfingfanatic]

2 hours ago, My2Dogs said:

His club, ball speeds and carry distance are all above the peoples he’s been playing with.  His swing seems off, don’t know if it’s the shaft or him but he seems stuck and missing both ways.  Either a pull or push for the 2 way miss.  His iron striking is also not his best but again could be due to the driver shaft or his confidence.  Don’t know. 

His strokes gained stats tell the story pretty well. Loses shots to the field off the tee and gains them everywhere else. Wouldn't surprise me if he went back to the Ventus Red.

[RyanP]

Need advice on shaft selection between 505 and 505x. I have seen the recommendation chart move so many times now, it's quite unreliable. My current speed is 108-111 mph according to PRGR and verified again at PGA store on Foresight yesterday. Ball speed 154-158 on average, spin around 2450, launch 13*-14*, (9.5* with Callaway Epic).  My concern is every fitter or salesman is always trying to immediately put me into a stiffer shaft due to my swing speed, but my best numbers and accuracy are always with a lighter regular flex shaft, against typical recommendations. I currently use 58g Regular flex Hzrdus. When I try to use a stiffer or heavier shaft I lose significant speed and distance and start pushing or pulling shots, plus I typically lose 10-15+ yards distance and the stiffer flex feels horrible to me. My transition/tempo is quite slow due to many prior sports injuries and surgeries. I am assuming with my slow/smooth tempo I am just not loading the stiff flex shafts at all, so they don't work for me?? 

 

Not sure how the auto flex relates, as the 505x is probably not equivalent to a standard stiff flex anyway. Would like to get to 115mph+ and 165+ ball speed, which seems attainable from my starting point. 

 

The main reason I am leaning toward the 505x over the 505 is due to working on increasing club speed and heavy swing weight concerns. I play a jumbomax ultralight 50g grip and I am 6'4" so wanting to try the longer playing length. Looking at upgrading to Mavrik 9* head. Getting this setup to D1-D2 at full length with the lighter 505 would be even more challenging. Doesn't lowering the head weights so much kill efficiency and reduce MOI in the head? Sucks how we can't demo these things first. Suggestions appreciated, Thanks!

Edited February 8, 2021 by RyanP

[kerila07]

1 hour ago, RyanP said:

Need advice on shaft selection between 505 and 505x. I have seen the recommendation chart move so many times now, it's quite unreliable. My current speed is 108-111 mph according to PRGR and verified again at PGA store on Foresight yesterday. Ball speed 154-158 on average, spin around 2450, launch 13*-14*, (9.5* with Callaway Epic).  My concern is every fitter or salesman is always trying to immediately put me into a stiffer shaft due to my swing speed, but my best numbers and accuracy are always with a lighter regular flex shaft, against typical recommendations. I currently use 58g Regular flex Hzrdus. When I try to use a stiffer or heavier shaft I lose significant speed and distance and start pushing or pulling shots, plus I typically lose 10-15+ yards distance and the stiffer flex feels horrible to me. My transition/tempo is quite slow due to many prior sports injuries and surgeries. I am assuming with my slow/smooth tempo I am just not loading the stiff flex shafts at all, so they don't work for me?? 

 

Not sure how the auto flex relates, as the 505x is probably not equivalent to a standard stiff flex anyway. Would like to get to 115mph+ and 165+ ball speed, which seems attainable from my starting point. 

 

The main reason I am leaning toward the 505x over the 505 is due to working on increasing club speed and heavy swing weight concerns. I play a jumbomax ultralight 50g grip and I am 6'4" so wanting to try the longer playing length. Looking at upgrading to Mavrik 9* head. Getting this setup to D1-D2 at full length with the lighter 505 would be even more challenging. Doesn't lowering the head weights so much kill efficiency and reduce MOI in the head? Sucks how we can't demo these things first. Suggestions appreciated, Thanks!

My local fitter has been selling these as quick as he can get them in.  From my observations watching him fit for these I would suggest the 505x.  You will most likely pick up 3-5mph swing speed just with the shaft change, and the 505x weighs 54 grams compared to your current 58 gram hzrdus.  His name is Joe Corsi and he has been fitting them via phone as well if you would like to make an inquiry 724-850-2400, he will be able to give you additional information.  He also prepares them to desired swingweigts, tips and grips.  Good luck with your information gathering.

 

[RyanP]

3 hours ago, kerila07 said:

My local fitter has been selling these as quick as he can get them in.  From my observations watching him fit for these I would suggest the 505x.  You will most likely pick up 3-5mph swing speed just with the shaft change, and the 505x weighs 54 grams compared to your current 58 gram hzrdus.  His name is Joe Corsi and he has been fitting them via phone as well if you would like to make an inquiry 724-850-2400, he will be able to give you additional information.  He also prepares them to desired swingweigts, tips and grips.  Good luck with your information gathering.

 

Thanks, He recommended the 505x for me. I will try it and see how I like it. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by RyanP

[X-Factor]

12 hours ago, RyanP said:

Thanks, He recommended the 505x for me. I will try it and see how I like it. 

I have very similar numbers - 505X is working for me.

[Lary007]

On 9/24/2020 at 9:39 PM, jpbova said:

Super interesting. Would like to see it with a 100 to 110 mph swing speed. 

You Tube has a couple videos that has testing of 90, 95, & 100 mph swings.  Very interesting

[Maceez13]

I've seen so many variations of options with these based on swing Speed. The Autoflex website now says SF505X for 100-110MPH, and I'm right at 100MPH. Anyone have opinion on this? I just placed an order for a SF505X but told the guy filling the to give me his opinion on the spec before filling it. Seems to have good communication so I can probably change this if I need to. 

 

Edit: I ordered from the same person @kerila07mentioned (just now saw that post above), so I guess I will consult with him on that spec.. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Maceez13

[ewill48]

Hope this thread hasn't died.  Finally convinced myself to test this shaft out.  Expensive...yes!   But...I have a head that I love (original G400 max) and found a 505 af with correct tip already installed.  Here's my question...which I haven't seen addressed:

 

I am a 96-98 swing speed player with 144-147 ball speed (aggressive transition, playing a straight to slight fade ball flight.  I hate draws).  However, I play my gamer at 44 inches.  Haven't seen many comments from people playing shorter as it seems everyone has gone to longer playing length.

 

I know Ping heads are heavier, but I have multiple weights so can adjust.  The shaft I have coming was already cut to play 45 inches so I would potentially be taking another inch off which normally reduces swing weight as I have heavier than standard weight in my g400 max head today with rouge stiff shaft.  I don't like gripping down so thinking swing weight might work out with ping head and shorter autoflex shaft.  If not, I can change weights to lower head weight.

 

Anyone out there playing this thing at 44 inches?

[5baytjd]

22 minutes ago, ewill48 said:

Hope this thread hasn't died.  Finally convinced myself to test this shaft out.  Expensive...yes!   But...I have a head that I love (original G400 max) and found a 505 af with correct tip already installed.  Here's my question...which I haven't seen addressed:

 

I am a 96-98 swing speed player with 144-147 ball speed (aggressive transition, playing a straight to slight fade ball flight.  I hate draws).  However, I play my gamer at 44 inches.  Haven't seen many comments from people playing shorter as it seems everyone has gone to longer playing length.

 

I know Ping heads are heavier, but I have multiple weights so can adjust.  The shaft I have coming was already cut to play 45 inches so I would potentially be taking another inch off which normally reduces swing weight as I have heavier than standard weight in my g400 max head today with rouge stiff shaft.  I don't like gripping down so thinking swing weight might work out with ping head and shorter autoflex shaft.  If not, I can change weights to lower head weight.

 

Anyone out there playing this thing at 44 inches?

If you muck about with the weights on the G400 Max, you may impact its forgiveness, which is its claim to fame. Yours will be an interesting experiment getting that head close to the D1 SW range KHT suggests for that shaft.

[bward]

36 minutes ago, 5baytjd said:

If you muck about with the weights on the G400 Max, you may impact its forgiveness, which is its claim to fame. Yours will be an interesting experiment getting that head close to the D1 SW range KHT suggests for that shaft.

Their suggestion is about mass, not swing weight. A 193 gram head and a 207 gram head can swing weight the same based on shaft length, but the 207 gram head will impart much greater flex and overall impact on the shafts dynamics. Short and heavy may work, but it isn’t what they are suggesting.

[ewill48]

4 minutes ago, bward said:

Their suggestion is about mass, not swing weight. A 193 gram head and a 207 gram head can swing weight the same based on shaft length, but the 207 gram head will impart much greater flex and overall impact on the shafts dynamics. Short and heavy may work, but it isn’t what they are suggesting.

 

Interesting...haven't seen where a specific head weight limit is recommended, only suggested swing weight but you may very well be right.  I play short and heavy today with good success.  Once the autoflex comes in next week I will put alongside my gamer on the SIM and report back.

 

I think there's been a movement by some to shorter shafts the last couple of years as people decide center face contact is most critical for consistency and lower scores even if the give up some ss.  Sometime better contact can even get it back in ball speed .  I have never been able to get along with 45+ inch drivers personally.  Thanks for the feedback.

[bward]

1 hour ago, ewill48 said:

 

Interesting...haven't seen where a specific head weight limit is recommended, only suggested swing weight but you may very well be right.  I play short and heavy today with good success.  Once the autoflex comes in next week I will put alongside my gamer on the SIM and report back.

 

I think there's been a movement by some to shorter shafts the last couple of years as people decide center face contact is most critical for consistency and lower scores even if the give up some ss.  Sometime better contact can even get it back in ball speed .  I have never been able to get along with 45+ inch drivers personally.  Thanks for the feedback.

Pushing light swing weight is their way of trying to get less mass on the end of the whippy shaft. They say the swing weight suggestion is to help the stability of the shaft. Mass at the end on the shaft is what effects it’s stability, not a measure of balance point.

[5baytjd]

1 hour ago, ewill48 said:

 

Interesting...haven't seen where a specific head weight limit is recommended, only suggested swing weight but you may very well be right.  I play short and heavy today with good success.  Once the autoflex comes in next week I will put alongside my gamer on the SIM and report back.

 

I think there's been a movement by some to shorter shafts the last couple of years as people decide center face contact is most critical for consistency and lower scores even if the give up some ss.  Sometime better contact can even get it back in ball speed .  I have never been able to get along with 45+ inch drivers personally.  Thanks for the feedback.

Look up the study Wishon did on length of driver shaft, which provides some empirical data on this.  The only exception to having better distance and dispersion with a shorter shaft was in players with a handicap of 5 or below (bless with preternatural hand-eye coordination already, IMHO).  He studied 43", 44", and 45" shaft length in the hands of golfers with HC from scratch to 20, I think it was.

 

I look forward to hearing how you get along with the autoflex, in the G400 Max, as that is my gamer.

[5baytjd]

11 minutes ago, bward said:

Pushing light swing weight is their way of trying to get less mass on the end of the whippy shaft. They say the swing weight suggestion is to help the stability of the shaft. Mass at the end on the shaft is what effects it’s stability, not a measure of balance point.

I see your point on mass versus SW.  I had only heard about their SW suggestion, thus that was all I had to go on.  You provide good insight for those on the quest to test the autoflex shaft.

[My2Dogs]

24 minutes ago, 5baytjd said:

I see your point on mass versus SW.  I had only heard about their SW suggestion, thus that was all I had to go on.  You provide good insight for those on the quest to test the autoflex shaft.

I’ve found that for a 46 inch playing weight you need a head weight about 190-192g.  Even if you go shorter I wouldn’t want to go heavier to get the SW up. 
 

there is a new video I found on YT where the guy went I believe C5 or C9 (Gabe something) and he was hitting it much better than at D1.  He was playing it was 46 in both instances.

[bward]

14 minutes ago, My2Dogs said:

I’ve found that for a 46 inch playing weight you need a head weight about 190-192g.  Even if you go shorter I wouldn’t want to go heavier to get the SW up. 
 

there is a new video I found on YT where the guy went I believe C5 or C9 (Gabe something) and he was hitting it much better than at D1.  He was playing it was 46 in both instances.

I’ve also found mine performs best around 192, going from memory. That’s as light as I could get the head I have for it. 

[shaolingolfer]

It's too cold to do anything last week but I have been testing for couple range sessions.  Playing like D5 is Ok but nothing special, jumbomax ultralite don't help either.  Change grip, take the weight all the way down to like C9 almost D0, it's seems to come alive and better ball speed and flight, add another 4g back to like D2, it seems to make me hit a high block to the right.  

 

Need more testing.

[supersp0rt]

Quote

 

 

•  

Posted 20 hours ago

Hope this thread hasn't died.  Finally convinced myself to test this shaft out.  Expensive...yes!   But...I have a head that I love (original G400 max) and found a 505 af with correct tip already installed.  Here's my question...which I haven't seen addressed:

 

I am a 96-98 swing speed player with 144-147 ball speed (aggressive transition, playing a straight to slight fade ball flight.  I hate draws).  However, I play my gamer at 44 inches.  Haven't seen many comments from people playing shorter as it seems everyone has gone to longer playing length.

 

I know Ping heads are heavier, but I have multiple weights so can adjust.  The shaft I have coming was already cut to play 45 inches so I would potentially be taking another inch off which normally reduces swing weight as I have heavier than standard weight in my g400 max head today with rouge stiff shaft.  I don't like gripping down so thinking swing weight might work out with ping head and shorter autoflex shaft.  If not, I can change weights to lower head weight.

 

Anyone out there playing this thing at 44 inches?

You and I are very similar. My (previous) gamer was a nemesys 75 four @ 44'' D4 with a speedzone head. Im right around 97-98 warmed up. Same ball speeds. As a reference, I play to just under a 4 and the driver is the weakest club in my bag. Transition is slighlty on the aggressive side.

 

Had the give the AF a try. Picked up a 505 and tried it first at full 46.5 playing length. Felt like my driver was a foot longer and it was ugly. 😆

 

Shortened it to 44.25'' playing length and we began cooking with gas. Very first hit @ C7 was +3mph BS. Over the course of 2 days I hit ~50 shots with this (indoor trackman) and didnt have a single ballspeed that was lower than my highest ballspeed with my nemesys. Extremely consistent. I played around with swingweights from C7-D2 and will need to wait until I can see outdoor ball flights to make a final decision. Launch averaged up an additional degree. Spin and AoA no notable changes...2000-2200 and +4-5. Over those ~50 shots, it averaged just over +4mph BS. Can still hit my preferred draw. I know if you spend $800 on a driver shaft you really want it to work, but this thing makes me look much better than I am 😁

 

 

[ewill48]

Supersp0rt,

 

Very encouraging to hear!  What weight are measuring for your speedzone head.  Did you alter weights any vs your old setup?

 

Playing shorter always reduces swing weight so that would help.  The static headweight of my G400 max is 193 grams with weight removed.  196 with 3 gram back weight vs. Stock setup.  It appears I have a lighter max head as I heard they were much heavier and never actually weighed it myself.

 

What grip do you play (size, weight)?

[1s1k]

My TM SIM 8 degree comes in at 189.7 grams.  I removed the 10g sliding weight and put in a 3g.

 

I put the shaft in at full length and didn't butt cut it. Playing length is 46.75".

Edited February 19, 2021 by 1s1k

[shaolingolfer]

I changed the back weight of my Sim from 12g to 7g and the front weight from 10g to 4g, at 46.5, it is almost at D0.

[supersport1]

Quote

Supersp0rt,

 

Very encouraging to hear!  What weight are measuring for your speedzone head.  Did you alter weights any vs your old setup?

 

Playing shorter always reduces swing weight so that would help.  The static headweight of my G400 max is 193 grams with weight removed.  196 with 3 gram back weight vs. Stock setup.  It appears I have a lighter max head as I heard they were much heavier and never actually weighed it myself.

 

What grip do you play (size, weight)?

If I remember correctly, my SZ head was 191g with the 6g weight in the back and nothing in the front, C7 SW. I played around with that combo, 4g front 6g back, 8g back only, and 12g back only. Actually had my best ballspeeds with 6g back only, but it needs further experimentation outdoors.

 

My previous setup with nemesys was D4...6g front 12g back.

 

Superstroke cross comfort oversize 50g

[GilbertoMag]

Just ordered auto flex sf505 recommended for 95-105 swing speed. I’m 100 swing speed with tsi2 driver with ad 6 orange shaft. Any suggestions on any unusual ways I should Set this shaft up. Not an expert in this arena but think the idea behind this shaft may help me increase  swing speed. Thanks in advance for suggestions. 

[rlb4]

48 minutes ago, GilbertoMag said:

Just ordered auto flex sf505 recommended for 95-105 swing speed. I’m 100 swing speed with tsi2 driver with ad 6 orange shaft. Any suggestions on any unusual ways I should Set this shaft up. Not an expert in this arena but think the idea behind this shaft may help me increase  swing speed. Thanks in advance for suggestions. 

Just make sure to use to recommended swing weight of D0-D1/D2.

[enfuego]

1 hour ago, rlb4 said:

Just make sure to use to recommended swing weight of D0-D1/D2.

Lots have had success at d3 and now some have had success in the C7-C9 range. 

 

Also found it funny auto flex says masking tape will stiffen the tip to go between flexes. Not sure I'm going to believe that. At least sell me tape with KHT on it and bright colors...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLbzRt7lHwv/?igshid=c6bbe8jle4f

Edited February 23, 2021 by enfuego

[ewill48]

Finally got the Autoflex SF505 in hand for testing.  I have 3 objectives for my testing:

 

1.       What is the potential of the AF in my gamer head? (Ping G400 Max)

2.      Can that potential be achieved with similar setup as I have now? (44” playing length)

3.      How hard do I have to work to get this potential?

 

I have never found testing 2 clubs side by side to be useful for me.  I think the brain subconsciously picks a winner beforehand and then guides the body to justify what it pre-determined.  Therefore I did my gamer test before I even had the Autoflex in hand.  The 1^st pic below is what I got on best 5 of 10 total swings.  Ball flight and distance is consistent with what I get on the course.

 

Old Gamer Data:

 

 

 

 

Now to the Autoflex…I read every single post and watched every single review possible.  Here’s what I learned.

1.  Swing weight is NOT nearly as important as Head weight.  The Autoflex needs LESS THAN 195 grams headweight regardless of swing weight in my opinion.  Any heavier and the shaft doesn't work nearly as well.  Tried many combinations.

2.  I play to 44” so I knew I was gonna cut the shaft.  Trying to play a longer driver was not my goal, as any benefit from the Autoflex would be negated by apprehensive swings and hitting it all over the face.  You CAN play this thing shorter than 46 inches!  Just get the headweight right!

3.  Ping heads are heavy…mine weighed in at 193 grams without any back weight.  I took the little 1 gram screw that goes in the copper weight and just put that in the hole with no back weight.  Total headweight = 194 grams.  I had to loft it down to 8 degrees to keep the launch and backspin reasonable.

 

First swing was just to get a feel.  Went 85% and boom 98 mph club speed.  Surprised to say the least.  I have to put a full swing on my gamer to get that speed.  Took a little while to warm up and feel what the shaft is doing.  Smoother swings are rewarded with effortless power.  Get quick and you lose that center contact for the pop the shaft gives. 

 

In the end, my Autoflex results were actually very consistent with my gamer.  The key however, is it only minimal effort to get these results (vs. 100% swing on the gamer).  To me, that is worth it!  More testing and more comfort will hopefully lead to learning how to consistently load the shaft.  I’d like to see if I can average 103-105mph once I get used to the autfoflex. 

 

 

Autoflex Data.

 

 

[stealthall]

I have been reading/following this thread and began my Autoflex test yesterday. SF505x in G425 Max 9*. Cut the butt 1” and waiting on lighter weights for the rear. That being said it was still a good start but am sitting at D7/D8 so not where I need to be yet. 
 

That being said I also have the Sim 2 Max 9.5* and am thinking about buying another SF505x and doing a side by side when the SW are equal on both. 
 

Question - when I finalize on the head to move forward with, can I cut down the extra shaft to move it into my 4WD or are the driver and fairway shafts actually different? Wasn’t sure with this unique company....

 

Thanks!

Edited February 23, 2021 by stealthall

[shaolingolfer]

13 hours ago, GilbertoMag said:

Just ordered auto flex sf505 recommended for 95-105 swing speed. I’m 100 swing speed with tsi2 driver with ad 6 orange shaft. Any suggestions on any unusual ways I should Set this shaft up. Not an expert in this arena but think the idea behind this shaft may help me increase  swing speed. Thanks in advance for suggestions. 

Order some lighter backweight and it will help you dial in the swing weight.  Having second range session and still prefer D0 than D2, it seems heavier weight will block to the right a bit more and more inconsistent.

[RyanP]

11 hours ago, ewill48 said:

Quote

1.  Swing weight is NOT nearly as important as Head weight.  The Autoflex needs LESS THAN 195 grams headweight regardless of swing weight in my opinion.  Any heavier and the shaft doesn't work nearly as well.  Tried many combinations.

 

 

So far In initial testing I have found the same thing with my 505x.. lighter head weight is critical and makes HUGE changes with autoflex. Swing weight set to D1 solely by messing with the grip end didn't do much for me. It's just tricking the swing weight scale. Currently I am getting best dispersion results head weight of 185g plus 8g adapter. My initial build started at D6 with 193g head + 8g adapter. Did not work, High and right fade to unplayable ultra high slices.  Made most drastic change possible with my head and pulled out all 14g of weight, C7. Accuracy much improved, ball flight came down, but developed a slight 2 way miss and low smash. Added 6g lead tape, D1. Smash back up and accuracy unbelievably good. I am not an accurate driver normally yet I can no longer make this club draw or go left at all. My prior miss was 2 way with an overdraw or a high fade. My dispersion is unbelievably good now. I am not seeing club speed gains like others so far but accuracy and consistent strikes on a 46" driver is ridiculously good.

 

I would never have believed  a measly 8g of head weight could make a driver go from literally unplayable to laser accurate, but it did.  

Edited February 23, 2021 by RyanP
quote fix

[rlb4]

Does reducing the backweight on these drivers, especially Ping G425, reduce their MOI and thus forgiveness? The heavier/lower CG backweight is the main reason for their high MOI and forgiveness.