KHT Autoflex shaft

[ThorntonMelon]

Looking forward to the feedback. Did you notice a difference in how he hit the 405?

[SEP1006]

17 hours ago, ThorntonMelon said:

I'm kinda curious 405 vs 505. I feel like everyone over 90 is swinging the 505 however. But I play the air speeder 40 in my 3 wood and it's a great fit for me. More thoughts....

 

My driver swing speed averages 96 - 98 which should put me in the 405. But since I have a quick transition it was recommended to me to get the 505. Worked out perfect!!!!!

 

Another member at my club has the 405 and let me swing it a few times. Nothing but high right and WAY RIGHT misses.

[ThorntonMelon]

Do you think it was your speed or transition that made the 405 unplayable?

[gsrjc]

So hit the 505 today and it felt good. The length was playing 47” which was not good so I choked down an inch and was hitting good shots. It was really windy so couldn’t get a good reading on distance. Dispersion was better than my Nemesys 65 stiff. I didn’t take any weight out of my epic flash SZ. Played it standard at 9 degrees just like how I normally do. I’ll get on a launch monitor soon and will do more testing when it’s not windy. Looks promising though. I was expecting more whipping of the head when I waggled it due to all the things I heard and read. It feels very stable at impact. 
 

With regards to my coworker who swings at 86-87, he wasn’t getting any faster ball speed with the 505. I also think he mentioned that it was spinning too much for him. He used a mavrik head and it only got better when he took weight out of the head. 

[SEP1006]

3 hours ago, ThorntonMelon said:

Do you think it was your speed or transition that made the 405 unplayable?

 

Honestly my transition. Brian's swing isn't that much slower than mine but he is very fluid throughout. The 405 works great for him. 

[My2Dogs]

3 hours ago, gsrjc said:

So hit the 505 today and it felt good. The length was playing 47” which was not good so I choked down an inch and was hitting good shots. It was really windy so couldn’t get a good reading on distance. Dispersion was better than my Nemesys 65 stiff. I didn’t take any weight out of my epic flash SZ. Played it standard at 9 degrees just like how I normally do. I’ll get on a launch monitor soon and will do more testing when it’s not windy. Looks promising though. I was expecting more whipping of the head when I waggled it due to all the things I heard and read. It feels very stable at impact. 
 

With regards to my coworker who swings at 86-87, he wasn’t getting any faster ball speed with the 505. I also think he mentioned that it was spinning too much for him. He used a mavrik head and it only got better when he took weight out of the head. 

More power to the folks who can hit a driver at 47 inches playing length.  I know a couple of guys here who have the AF at 47 and have gotten such good numbers.    I tried both a Ventus and AF at 47 and was all over the map with both.  Choke down to my normal and I’m good but makes me really appreciate those long drive guys who hit it with 48 inch drivers and maybe 3, 4 or 5 degrees of loft.  That was before they put a length cap as before some where 52inches. Yes I know only 1 out of 8 need to be on the grid to count but man those guys are swinging so fast and then at that length.  Wow.   
 

on your friend with the Mavrik.  Tell him to loft it down 1 degree and he will see a much better result.  I found that out when I did that to my 9* and put it at 8*.  Launch and spin went down but distance got better as I got more roll. 

[ewill48]

I am noticing a nice trend.  Reps = consistency.  Consistency = confidence.  Confidence = performance.

 

Here's what I mean.  The AF is sooo different from what I came from, that I needed to relearn the "feel" of what delivers a solid drive.  The more I hit it, the more I learn what it will do and what I need to do.  Not talking distance so much as overall performance like taking one side out of play to avoid a hazard or making a forced carry over water or finding a narrow landing area to open up a better line for next shot.

 

Basically, this is a long winded version of it takes 10,000 reps to master anything.  Don't give up.  I have probably swung my autoflex driver about ~300 times now between rounds and practice and there are still some tee shots that make me nervous, but not as many as when I first took it out and realize my objective on the course is not to hit it as far as I can on every drive.  Keep getting reps in folks.

[JMATHEEENS]

I got in four rounds in Pinehurst/Southern Pines this past weekend.

 

My former gamer's miss was a hook or a fade/slice taking off a lot of distance. My main takeaway from the weekend was that the AF makes it tough for me to hook the ball. My mishits were also much longer and had a much tighter dispersion than my last driver. I hit a number of drives 250+ and even had a handful in the 270+ range which rarely ever happened before. I got much better results when I slowed down my backswing and worked on tempo. 

 

I took off a quarter inch last Thursday and am now at a D2 swing weight. Going to regrip the club next and continue to dial it in. 

 

I definitely agree with the last post though. The more reps you get the more confidence you have in the club. I played with a buddy this past weekend who would consistently out drive me by 10-20 yards and we were neck and neck across all of the rounds and my longest drivers were longer than his longest drives this weekend. 

 

I'm going on a trackman this weekend so will try to test stats on my old gamer vs. the AF Radspeed combo again. 

 

 

[PLLand55]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:58 AM, 1s1k said:

Actually is says Korea Hidden Technology 

Have a friend with one....he says its made in North Korea and I corrected him...no its made in South Korea. He insist North Korea, because he is hitting BOMBS with it!!! What a fool!

[PLLand55]

Oh man...I have read every reply on this post in hopes that I know how to build my next combo, that will make you dizzy. 

 

Here is my experience and I am looking for some recommendations from you all.

 

I currently play:

G425 LST 9* (20g weight) 44.5" Length

Diamana Thump 65X

Swing Weight D1

Grip: CP2 Wrap Jumbo (81 grams)

 

On GCQuad my "upper end" numbers are:

Ball Speed: 174 mph

Club Speed: 121 mph

Launch Angle: 13.4*

Backspin: 2,247 RPM

Angle of Attack: 4.3* Up

Carry: 314 yards

Total: 336 yards

 

On course I wouldn't swing this way unless the hole has no penalties. So on course I am more around the 115-117 range in club speed.

 

So I have already tried the SF 505X prior to reading this entire post and gave the shaft to a friend. In turn for a SF 505XX. 

 

Auto Flex Build:

G410 LST 9* (12g weight) 46.5" Length

Auto Flex SF 505X

Swing Weight D3-D4

Grip: CP2 Wrap Jumbo (81 grams)

 

I have a quick transition and lag the club significantly with a consistent in to out path and upward AOA. My initial shots on the range with the G410 AF combo is to top the ball, thin shots, then eventually high fades that are really spiny. What's strange is when I go between my gamer and the AF build I hit the AF combo thin and my gamer I start hitting high on face, nearly skying it. 

 

Once I sequenced the rhythm of my swing a little better on the course the first and only time I played it, I did start to find it fairly straight and easy to hit considering it was 2" longer than my gamer. The end result is that it was shorter in distance, much higher spin, and I didn't have the confidence to swing with more speed than my gamer. With this said I abandoned the project. 

 

Since this experiment a friend of mine has sent me a SF 505XX to try and I really want to get the combo as close to good as possible. What I am looking for out of this is hopefully improved dispersion and more consistent of my better ball speeds with less effort.

 

So hear are a few of my questions:

1. Since I am already a high speed guy and am comfortable with 44.5"-45.25" should I go with 45.5"-46" finished playing length or shorter even?
   1. I don't feel comfortable with the longer option, but I have played 45.25" no problem in the past.
2. What is the best head option considering the amount of spin I was getting on course in last experiment? I would also consider different head all together from list below.
   1. I currently have the following heads:
      1. Mizuno 200G 9*
      2. Mizuno 200X 10.5*
      3. PING G410 LST 9*
      4. PING G425 LST 9* On Order
      5. Titleist TSi 2 9*
      6. Titleist TSi 4 9* On Order
      7. Callaway EPIC Max LS 9*
3.  I see that the manufacture doesn't recommend tipping, but is that in all cases?
4. Since I play with a heavier grip (81 grams), how does that play into the whole club weight conversation?

I really appreciate the insight from all of you AF guys trial and errors. Hoping to find a solid starting point and seeing how this second experiment goes! Thanks in advance.

Edited March 8, 2021 by PLLand55

[PLLand55]

numbers with current gamer listed above. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by PLLand55

[DLiver]

A couple of thoughts. First of all, all golfers react to the weight of a club--it is one of the most important fitting parameters (right after length, IMO). So if you have a club that is longer than optimum and a different weight than optimum, you can't really expect to swing that as well as a club that fits you well--like your gamer.

 

Anyway, to your questions: I would suggest butt trimming your AF to 45" (or slightly less), because that is a length that suits you well. That length will also lighten the swing weight, which I think is an important consideration for the AF.

 

I would also get the head weight down to around 185-190 grams. I think this is the AF's sweet spot, and it also effectively stiffens the flex of the shaft, which for you I think is a good thing.

 

Finally, I think you can mostly ignore grip weight. Although it does effect the overall weight of the club, it doesn't really influence the "real" swing weight of a club--it does fool the swing weight calculator into indicating an inaccurately light swing weight. Personally, I think the AF doesn't like to have a lot of weight concentrated at the end of the shaft.

 

FWIW, I have an AF and swing that sucker as hard as I can. It definitely goes straighter than it does with my Elements shaft. I can still hit the ball off the planet, but now the planet is much smaller 😉

 

tl:dr Head weight <190g, play at 45", don't worry about the grip too much, swing away.

 

Now waiting for @Howard_Jones to come in and correct all my incorrect conclusions 😄

Edited March 8, 2021 by DLiver
bhad grammur

[shaolingolfer]

I will say go 46" with Callaway Max LS and TSi4.  Don't think Ping is a good match with Autoflex, TSi2 can change back weight & loft but only a very limited range, not sure about Mizuno older driver at all. 

 

I will also suggest no more than D2 swing weight.

[PLLand55]

2 hours ago, DLiver said:

A couple of thoughts. First of all, all golfers react to the weight of a club--it is one of the most important fitting parameters (right after length, IMO). So if you have a club that is longer than optimum and a different weight than optimum, you can't really expect to swing that as well as a club that fits you well--like your gamer.

 

Anyway, to your questions: I would suggest butt trimming your AF to 45" (or slightly less), because that is a length that suits you well. That length will also lighten the swing weight, which I think is an important consideration for the AF.

 

I would also get the head weight down to around 185-190 grams. I think this is the AF's sweet spot, and it also effectively stiffens the flex of the shaft, which for you I think is a good thing.

 

Finally, I think you can mostly ignore grip weight. Although it does effect the overall weight of the club, it doesn't really influence the "real" swing weight of a club--it does fool the swing weight calculator into indicating an inaccurately light swing weight. Personally, I think the AF doesn't like to have a lot of weight concentrated at the end of the shaft.

 

FWIW, I have an AF and swing that sucker as hard as I can. It definitely goes straighter than it does with my Elements shaft. I can still hit the ball off the planet, but now the planet is much smaller 😉

 

tl:dr Head weight <190g, play at 45", don't worry about the grip too much, swing away.

 

Now waiting for @Howard_Jones to come in and correct all my incorrect conclusions 😄

Thanks for the response. My G425 head weight with out adapter and weight in the back is 194 g. I assume that’s too heavy to play at 46” or no? 

[ThorntonMelon]

You guys should work for auto flex.

 

 

Sold. 

[DLiver]

37 minutes ago, PLLand55 said:

Thanks for the response. My G425 head weight with out adapter and weight in the back is 194 g. I assume that’s too heavy to play at 46” or no? 

I played my AF 505 with a 194g at 46" and it was fine (though I only swing at 100mph max). It played well and I improved my CHS and ball speed over my gamer. I took out 7 grams more out of the head and my numbers got even better. Then I went even lighter without improvement and with a little less consistency, so I went back to 187g and that's where I'm staying. I don't know the swing weight but it feels fine to me.

Edited March 9, 2021 by DLiver

[ewill48]

48 minutes ago, PLLand55 said:

Thanks for the response. My G425 head weight with out adapter and weight in the back is 194 g. I assume that’s too heavy to play at 46” or no? 

 

I play G400 max @ 44 inches with an SF505.  I removed the back weight altogether and my head comes in at 194 grams and is perfect at my playing length!  Love it.

[wchahn]

I’m in the OEM stated range for the 405 but when I compared a 46 inch 405 to a 45 inch 505 (in a PXG Proto head), I had much better results with the shorter 505. I have an aggressive transition. Also with the 505 my ball flight is lower. Pretty happy with this configuration. 

[My2Dogs]

12 hours ago, PLLand55 said:

Have a friend with one....he says its made in North Korea and I corrected him...no its made in South Korea. He insist North Korea, because he is hitting BOMBS with it!!! What a fool!

My buddy always says the same thing.  He says I’ve got a contact with Kim Jong-un. I just point to the ball past his and point to Korean Hidden Technology on the shaft. 😂. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by My2Dogs

[My2Dogs]

4 hours ago, PLLand55 said:

Thanks for the response. My G425 head weight with out adapter and weight in the back is 194 g. I assume that’s too heavy to play at 46” or no? 

I was told to never tip this shaft.  Straight from both the OEM and now the US Distributer.  Always butt cut to get to proper length.  
 

What I have found is that most people do really well with a head weight between 190-194 but 190-192 seems to really be good.  However some have gone lighter (I haven’t had the chance yet but am going to experiment once I get the SF505XX back) and some have gone heavier and have gotten good results.  You have to test but but I would say in 80% of the cases the 190-194 has been the optimal head weight.  I was told originally by the OEM that swing weight was where you have to be to dial it in for best results- no matter the length.  However after talker with the US Distributer, he says the head weight is the most important, no matter the swing weight as some play longer or shorter.  Also he says adding butt weight won’t make a huge difference as the magic is in the tip of the shaft and adding weight on the butt does nothing to lighten the head weight.  Does help with SW but as stated before the head weight is what matters most.  
 

I’ve found any head that either has a lot of adjustable weights (PXG) or ones with heavy weights that can be reduced (Cally line and even Ping because of the one large weight) work best.  I haven’t hit the AF with the Titleist but would assume it would work due do the larger weight.  Even the Sim was easy to dial in as I swapped out both the front and back weight to get to 190.  Also found at 190g I was able to play a high fade but did not add too much spin so it got really good distance and even roll. 
 

i always tell people to go up a flex when getting an AF.

 

 1) it gives you faster swing speed and ball speed than your current set up (most times).  I went up 4-5 mph in swing speed and 5mph in ball speed.  That’s with not so great smash factors so far.  I think once I get to play more and get used to the faster speeds my smash factor will go up and so will my ball speeds. 

2) IMO and also a couple fitters, the AF was first made for the Asian market.  They don’t usually swing as fast and have as aggressive transitions as players in the US market.  

[PLLand55]

5 hours ago, My2Dogs said:

I was told to never tip this shaft.  Straight from both the OEM and now the US Distributer.  Always butt cut to get to proper length.  
 

What I have found is that most people do really well with a head weight between 190-194 but 190-192 seems to really be good.  However some have gone lighter (I haven’t had the chance yet but am going to experiment once I get the SF505XX back) and some have gone heavier and have gotten good results.  You have to test but but I would say in 80% of the cases the 190-194 has been the optimal head weight.  I was told originally by the OEM that swing weight was where you have to be to dial it in for best results- no matter the length.  However after talker with the US Distributer, he says the head weight is the most important, no matter the swing weight as some play longer or shorter.  Also he says adding butt weight won’t make a huge difference as the magic is in the tip of the shaft and adding weight on the butt does nothing to lighten the head weight.  Does help with SW but as stated before the head weight is what matters most.  
 

I’ve found any head that either has a lot of adjustable weights (PXG) or ones with heavy weights that can be reduced (Cally line and even Ping because of the one large weight) work best.  I haven’t hit the AF with the Titleist but would assume it would work due do the larger weight.  Even the Sim was easy to dial in as I swapped out both the front and back weight to get to 190.  Also found at 190g I was able to play a high fade but did not add too much spin so it got really good distance and even roll. 
 

i always tell people to go up a flex when getting an AF.

 

 1) it gives you faster swing speed and ball speed than your current set up (most times).  I went up 4-5 mph in swing speed and 5mph in ball speed.  That’s with not so great smash factors so far.  I think once I get to play more and get used to the faster speeds my smash factor will go up and so will my ball speeds. 

2) IMO and also a couple fitters, the AF was first made for the Asian market.  They don’t usually swing as fast and have as aggressive transitions as players in the US market.  

When head weights are being advised are the adapters being considered or is this without adapter? 
 

Thanks in advance. 

[DLiver]

In my case, the head weights mentioned do not include adaptor.

[My2Dogs]

3 hours ago, PLLand55 said:

When head weights are being advised are the adapters being considered or is this without adapter? 
 

Thanks in advance. 

The head weight I have been quoting is without adapter.  

[stealthall]

16 hours ago, PLLand55 said:

Thanks for the response. My G425 head weight with out adapter and weight in the back is 194 g. I assume that’s too heavy to play at 46” or no? 

for what it’s worth I have done extensive testing with 505x both stock and cut 1” at the butt. Different heads will net out different playing lengths I.e ping is +1” and TM Sim is + 1.25-1.5”. 
 

I tried Mavrik Sz, Ping G425 Max, Sim, Sim Max, Sim 2 and Sim 2 Max. 
 

The ping has lots of weight options but when I lowered the weight and netted a sub 46” playing length it just wasn’t right, maybe a few good ones but then all went to crap. 
 

The Callaway stuff will work, I am just not a fan of the feel, but the Mavrik SZ is definitely ideal. 
 

I ended up with Sim 2 Max 9 degree version. Playing length is a smidge over 46” and I have it dialed down one notch to “Lower” which is 8.25 degrees. The head weights 194 stock (not including adapter) and I removed the front weight (3g) and covered the hole with 1 gram square lead tape. Head is now 192g. The grip is a standard Iomic sticky 2.3 with 2 wraps which is 52g total. The SW is D1. 
 

This config allows for a nice smooth swing or an aggressive swing. I was unable to achieve this with all my other tests and configs. 
 

this is what I will say after 2 weeks of spending a lot of money and testing a lot of club heads. 
 

1. We either get lucky out of the gate with a setup that matches our style of swing, translation, etc or we don’t. 
2. That being said, if you are on the “we don’t” side, like me, then you need to have the means (fitting capabilities on hand or access to one) to dial it in. I have a full golf shop in my basement with a Sim I built. I can test and build whatever. It’s nice and a curse. 
3. The shaft will work, you just have to stick with heads that are customizable that you can play and like and have the patience to dial it in. 
 

as many have said the typical winning formula or at least starting point should be 192g (up or down a little), C7-D2 (personal preference and comfort) and 46” playing length (you can always cut more or choke down). 
 

I ended on the Sim 2 Max 9 degree for a few reasons:

 

1. I have always felt comfortable mentally with their woods, goes back to the R7 when I last had my best driving days. 

2. I like the sound

3. I need some forgiveness as my miss is usually toe or high on the face so this club helps me more with the least drop off in performance vs the others.  
4. The weight profile just seemed to work faster in the build process than all others without spending hours swapping weights and getting tired. 
 

 

 

[My2Dogs]

As Stealthall said it’s a blessing and a curse.  Especially for us who like to tinker. It’s so cool to try different weights, heads, buying lighter/heavier weights (I’ve got so many for the Sim (front and back) Sim Max (back), Callaway Mavrik SZ,  regular Mavrik,  Mavrik Single Diamond and PXG Proto X it drives me insane at times.  
 

But it’s also what I like to do and this shaft is the perfect tool as it lets us do it until we absolutely go bonkers 🤪 .   I really need to just find one head and weight set up and quit.  It got me going so nuts I’ve got 3 AF driver shafts now.  Now I’m moving up to the XX.  😂. Someone needs to stop me. 
 

 

[PLLand55]

14 hours ago, stealthall said:

for what it’s worth I have done extensive testing with 505x both stock and cut 1” at the butt. Different heads will net out different playing lengths I.e ping is +1” and TM Sim is + 1.25-1.5”. 
 

I tried Mavrik Sz, Ping G425 Max, Sim, Sim Max, Sim 2 and Sim 2 Max. 
 

The ping has lots of weight options but when I lowered the weight and netted a sub 46” playing length it just wasn’t right, maybe a few good ones but then all went to crap. 
 

The Callaway stuff will work, I am just not a fan of the feel, but the Mavrik SZ is definitely ideal. 
 

I ended up with Sim 2 Max 9 degree version. Playing length is a smidge over 46” and I have it dialed down one notch to “Lower” which is 8.25 degrees. The head weights 194 stock (not including adapter) and I removed the front weight (3g) and covered the hole with 1 gram square lead tape. Head is now 192g. The grip is a standard Iomic sticky 2.3 with 2 wraps which is 52g total. The SW is D1. 
 

This config allows for a nice smooth swing or an aggressive swing. I was unable to achieve this with all my other tests and configs. 
 

this is what I will say after 2 weeks of spending a lot of money and testing a lot of club heads. 
 

1. We either get lucky out of the gate with a setup that matches our style of swing, translation, etc or we don’t. 
2. That being said, if you are on the “we don’t” side, like me, then you need to have the means (fitting capabilities on hand or access to one) to dial it in. I have a full golf shop in my basement with a Sim I built. I can test and build whatever. It’s nice and a curse. 
3. The shaft will work, you just have to stick with heads that are customizable that you can play and like and have the patience to dial it in. 
 

as many have said the typical winning formula or at least starting point should be 192g (up or down a little), C7-D2 (personal preference and comfort) and 46” playing length (you can always cut more or choke down). 
 

I ended on the Sim 2 Max 9 degree for a few reasons:

 

1. I have always felt comfortable mentally with their woods, goes back to the R7 when I last had my best driving days. 

2. I like the sound

3. I need some forgiveness as my miss is usually toe or high on the face so this club helps me more with the least drop off in performance vs the others.  
4. The weight profile just seemed to work faster in the build process than all others without spending hours swapping weights and getting tired. 
 

 

 

Ping is probably my favorite head. It has been that way since G30. I’m hoping that works. The Ping head that I gave with no adapter or weight in back is 188 g. That being a baseline, the lightest weight I have found is 5 g bringing head weight to 194 g. 
 

So either I play no weight, add lead tape, or it’s 194 or more. 
 

Other option would to look at some Japanese made heads since I believe they are built lighter. 
 

we shall see. 

[stealthall]

5 hours ago, My2Dogs said:

As Stealthall said it’s a blessing and a curse.  Especially for us who like to tinker. It’s so cool to try different weights, heads, buying lighter/heavier weights (I’ve got so many for the Sim (front and back) Sim Max (back), Callaway Mavrik SZ,  regular Mavrik,  Mavrik Single Diamond and PXG Proto X it drives me insane at times.  
 

But it’s also what I like to do and this shaft is the perfect tool as it lets us do it until we absolutely go bonkers 🤪 .   I really need to just find one head and weight set up and quit.  It got me going so nuts I’ve got 3 AF driver shafts now.  Now I’m moving up to the XX.  😂. Someone needs to stop me. 
 

 

It’s turning into a Maaco Commerical....

 

And now my 5wd “isn’t working”....better get Autoflex. Seriously, I am now tempted to try the shaft in my 5wd.  I play X in the fairway woods so I suppose I would step up to xx for the 5wd. 

[ThorntonMelon]

I'm starting this in a Tsi2 with the backup that I get a radspeed head. Bought a -6 weight so it's at 192 or so right away.  Well be able to compare to gamer immediately.  Friday hopefully.  I'm playing a legit money game Saturday and Sunday and we will see which is in the bag. 

[stealthall]

1 hour ago, ThorntonMelon said:

I'm starting this in a Tsi2 with the backup that I get a radspeed head. Bought a -6 weight so it's at 192 or so right away.  Well be able to compare to gamer immediately.  Friday hopefully.  I'm playing a legit money game Saturday and Sunday and we will see which is in the bag. 

Word on the street is the Radspeed is a great option. I don’t think we know much about the TSi line as of yet. I think a potential challenge with the TSi3 is the back weight I believe is 8g...so there is only so far you can go and the adapters are on the heavier side I believe.

 

I would think the TSi2 should be good but I do not know much about the weights and options there...

[stealthall]

Can we discuss the AF for fairway woods here? If not I am glad to start an AF Fairway thread....

 

If so, can some folks chime in on their experience with FWs? Shaft adjustments, etc?