Reclass from 2022 to 2023 and recruiting nightmare

[MB19]

4 hours ago, bdecena said:

https://www.payscale.com/college-roi

That list has some places I would have never considered throughout the top-20.

 

One of my best friends in HS went to GMI before it was Kettering--used to be a sweet deal back then.  College was on GM as long as you stayed with the company X-amount of years after graduation.  

[leezer99]

12 hours ago, MB19 said:

That list has some places I would have never considered throughout the top-20.

 

One of my best friends in HS went to GMI before it was Kettering--used to be a sweet deal back then.  College was on GM as long as you stayed with the company X-amount of years after graduation.  

 

Yep, #1 college on that list is Harvey Mudd which is about an hour east of me.  You know what's out there... NOTHING!  You have two choices for fun around there, the Pomona Raceway to watch drag racing / oval racing or Raging Waters (the water park made famous by Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure).

[MB19]

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Yep, #1 college on that list is Harvey Mudd which is about an hour east of me.  You know what's out there... NOTHING!  You have two choices for fun around there, the Pomona Raceway to watch drag racing / oval racing or Raging Waters (the water park made famous by Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure).

It sounds "Excellent!!!" next to Flint 🙂  

[heavy_hitter]

On 10/9/2020 at 11:36 PM, 2bGood said:

$$$$ is one reason. If you can pull a scholarship next year it makes sense to wait and get school paid for then go and pay for year one yourself. It also nice to go to the same school all years, so it does not make a allot of sense to start at one school and hunt for scholarship to transfer to another school. 

 

There isn't enough money from the schools for golf in the first place.  

[heavy_hitter]

On 10/9/2020 at 11:22 PM, chrissdc said:

They can drop down to D2,D3 or they can go to lower ranked D1 schools and still get a good amount of money/percentage.

This whole thing may strengthen all levels of college golf. 

 

I know as much or more about the process than 99% of the people on here.  D3 gives no athletic money.  D2 you can most of the time get more money than D1.

 

 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 10/9/2020 at 3:29 PM, tiger1873 said:

 

Some schools have a very high tuition to attend. I would think that could cause a real problem for some kids to attend. I know some schools out there are 75-85k in tuition a year. 

 

A year?  Examples?

[chrissdc]

On 10/11/2020 at 3:27 AM, leezer99 said:

 

Yep, #1 college on that list is Harvey Mudd which is about an hour east of me.  You know what's out there... NOTHING!  You have two choices for fun around there, the Pomona Raceway to watch drag racing / oval racing or Raging Waters (the water park made famous by Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure).

Believe me kids will have fun now matter where they are. 

[chrissdc]

On 10/13/2020 at 6:35 AM, heavy_hitter said:

I know as much or more about the process than 99% of the people on here.  D3 gives no athletic money.  D2 you can most of the time get more money than D1.

 

 

I think you misunderstood my post. Or I wasn’t clear with my thoughts. I agreed with your earlier post. I added that all levels could be strengthened. Lower D1 schools will get better recruits, D2 etc as well as D3.

While D3 does not offer athletic money, it does offer academic money that can now flow to higher quality players. No one is questioning your knowledge regarding recruiting. 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

So if 2021 NCAA spring golf season gets cancelled (likely?), am I correct in my understanding that current college players would have 2 additional years of eligibility left?  A current college senior could play until 2023 (since they gained a year of eligibility from last spring's season plus next spring)?

[tiger1873]

On 10/13/2020 at 9:33 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 

There isn't enough money from the schools for golf in the first place.  

 

 

Here is the thing all the schools advertise tuition rates that pretty expensive a lot people never pay full price. They all offer some sort of scholarships (discounts) to a lot kids who are regular students.  Someone told me the college recruiting office is a like a Car dealer. You really don't know what the price is until you sit down and deal and don't be afraid to walk.  

 

Playing a sport obviously helps so if they want someone they will find the money one way or another. 

 

 

I know everyone talks about golf scholarships and getting a free ride but in most cases it is a combination of things  that a school offers that helps achieve the free ride.  Playing golf is okay but not the only way to get a free ride.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

2 hours ago, chrissdc said:

I think you misunderstood my post. Or I wasn’t clear with my thoughts. I agreed with your earlier post. I added that all levels could be strengthened. Lower D1 schools will get better recruits, D2 etc as well as D3.

While D3 does not offer athletic money, it does offer academic money that can now flow to higher quality players. No one is questioning your knowledge regarding recruiting. 

Can definitely confirm that D3 (esp the richer schools) gives tons of non-athletic "merit" aid to attract the most attractive students (including athletes)

[tiger1873]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:36 PM, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

A year?  Examples?

 

This list is from last year but there are few D1 schools on this list.  I would think a good number of students at these schools are getting some sort of scholarship to attend.  But they gone way up in price.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/244041/most-expensive-colleges-in-the-us/

Edited October 14, 2020 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

41 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

Here is the thing all the schools advertise tuition rates that pretty expensive a lot people never pay full price. They all offer some sort of scholarships (discounts) to a lot kids who are regular students.  Someone told me the college recruiting office is a like a Car dealer. You really don't know what the price is until you sit down and deal and don't be afraid to walk.  

 

Playing a sport obviously helps so if they want someone they will find the money one way or another. 

 

 

I know everyone talks about golf scholarships and getting a free ride but in most cases it is a combination of things  that a school offers that helps achieve the free ride.  Playing golf is okay but not the only way to get a free ride.

 

What someone tells you?  I did it.  The price is the price.  They can find money for academics and grants, but only if you qualify.  They don't have money laying around just to give.

[tiger1873]

35 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

What someone tells you?  I did it.  The price is the price.  They can find money for academics and grants, but only if you qualify.  They don't have money laying around just to give.

 

The price is the price but the reality is almost everyone has something that they qualifies for.   Obviously this is different for every school but if you look the average price students pay out of pocket is usually much less then the advertised price.

 

I know many people for instance who went to MIT and Harvard and never paid a dime or had scholarship money from their endowment because they didn't come from wealthy families.

At the end of the day out of pocket expenses is what matter to everyone. I know a lot people that read this think golf scholarships but if your going to school the number 1 goal should be education and what will help you when you are done.  From what I seen that may or may not mean a golf scholarship is in your best interest.

[tiger1873]

This explains it a lot better

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/it-costs-78200-to-go-to-harvardheres-what-students-actually-pay.html

 

I think private schools are more likely to do this then public state ones but clearly you need to shop around a lot.

Edited October 14, 2020 by tiger1873

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

I personally believe NAIA schools will benefit from COVID.  There has been no dead period.  The top 25 programs are deep with talent.  Kids in search of athletic money will find it.  School in the AAC conference players are averaging like 74 to crack the top 5.

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

I personally believe NAIA schools will benefit from COVID.  There has been no dead period.  The top 25 programs are deep with talent.  Kids in search of athletic money will find it.  School in the AAC conference players are averaging like 74 to crack the top 5.

 

74 to crack top 5?  Our top 3 on our high school team average that.

[tiger1873]

45 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

74 to crack top 5?  Our top 3 on our high school team average that.

Are we talking about girls scores. I know college scores tend to be higher because of score but girls are lot higher then the boys. 

 

i would think boys would need to be closer to par but I don’t follow college men’s golf.

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

Are we talking about girls scores. I know college scores tend to be higher because of score but girls are lot higher then the boys. 

 

i would think boys would need to be closer to par but I don’t follow college men’s golf.

 

Boy's.  NAIA scores tend to be low 70's to high 80's.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

23 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

74 to crack top 5?  Our top 3 on our high school team average that.

Difference in college and high school.  We both know that.

[iteachgolf]

2 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Difference in college and high school.  We both know that.

Naia Golf is essentially the same as high school golf in FL.  I teach one of the better players in that conference and have taught multiple NAIA National Champions including a back to back Jack Nicklaus award winner In NAIA. 

[heavy_hitter]

19 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Difference in college and high school.  We both know that.

http://www.golfstat.com/2020-2021/tstat/mtsfl20/m1519.pdf

 

This is a NAIA tournament.  We live about an hour away and our kids play this course.  Our High School Team would not come in last if they were entered into this tournament.  There are probably 6 HS programs in the state that would win this tournament.

[leezer99]

Y'all see this article from Brendan?

 

A week into the 2021 College Golf signing class, I wanted to take a look at the numbers behind the 2021 signing class and share some of my thoughts, this is what I found: 

• Boys and girls signees down a third from last year at this time 
• There are currently about 60 2021 girls with negative scoring differentials who have not signed an NLI
• There are currently about 150 2021 boys with negative scoring differentials who have not signed an NLI
• Of the boys that signed with a ranking on NJGS 124/160 had negative scoring differentials 
• Of the girls that signed with a signing on NJGS 61/108 had negative scoring differentials
• Typically internationals make up about 20% of players, this year that number is up about 10% 
• There are approximately 125 boys in the transfer portal including a former US Junior Medalist and someone who just played Augusta 
• There are approximately 70 girls in the transfer portal 

 

The 2021 college golf signing class – GolfWRX

 

[tiger1873]

13 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Y'all see this article from Brendan?

 

A week into the 2021 College Golf signing class, I wanted to take a look at the numbers behind the 2021 signing class and share some of my thoughts, this is what I found: 

• Boys and girls signees down a third from last year at this time 
• There are currently about 60 2021 girls with negative scoring differentials who have not signed an NLI
• There are currently about 150 2021 boys with negative scoring differentials who have not signed an NLI
• Of the boys that signed with a ranking on NJGS 124/160 had negative scoring differentials 
• Of the girls that signed with a signing on NJGS 61/108 had negative scoring differentials
• Typically internationals make up about 20% of players, this year that number is up about 10% 
• There are approximately 125 boys in the transfer portal including a former US Junior Medalist and someone who just played Augusta 
• There are approximately 70 girls in the transfer portal 

 

The 2021 college golf signing class – GolfWRX

 

 

There are going to be a lot parents unhappy over the next 2 years. Don't think there is any way around that.   I am still seeing kids playing but I am wondering the long term effect.

 

For boys it's always going to be competitive. For girls I am guessing we are going see a big decline in girls who continue to play competitively especially after 2023. I am starting  to see less girls show up for 2028 and beyond. There must be 50% -75% less girls playing in my younger daughters age group then what I used to see a few years ago with my older daughter. 

 

Once the word gets out there is not easy money for free school.  I have to think a lot parents will question spending $300 plus for tournaments.

Edited December 7, 2020 by tiger1873

[wildcatden]

2 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

There are going to be a lot parents unhappy over the next 2 years. Don't think there is any way around that.   I am still seeing kids playing but I am wondering the long term effect.

 

For boys it's always going to be competitive. For girls I am guessing we are going see a big decline in girls who continue to play competitively especially after 2023. I am starting  to see less girls show up for 2028 and beyond. There must be 50% -75% less girls playing in my younger daughters age group then what I used to see a few years ago with my older daughter. 

 

Once the word gets out there is not easy money for free school.  I have to think a lot parents will question spending $300 plus for tournaments.

 

We had a discussion long ago on this board about the odds of playing college golf for men and women.  https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds

 

 

 

Given this information, many parents may shy away quite quickly.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by wildcatden

[Abh159]

22 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

We had a discussion long ago on this board about the odds of playing college golf for men and women.  https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds

 

 

 

Given this information, many parents may shy away quite quickly.

 

 

Percentage wise it makes perfect sense. Especially when you consider that both men's and women's golf teams have pretty much the same roster size 10-12 give or take.

 

The debate over girls vs boys in my opinion has more to do with the competition level. Less players overall for girls equals fewer good players. Fewer good players equals more opportunities for average - below average players to play in college. 

 

For instance, a girl who consistently shoots high 70s - low 80s will definitely have the opportunity to play in college and may even get some DI opportunities as more and more schools add women's golf teams (although the pandemic may halt this progress). Whereas a boy with those same scores would probably only have the option of JUCO, NAIA, or DII if he's lucky.

 

Either way it's important to remember that golf (both men's and women's) has one of the lowest number of scholarships when compared to other NCAA teams. So regardless of gender the odds of you getting one or a portion of the 4.5 (boys) or 6 (girls) scholarships per program are pretty low.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Abh159

[tiger1873]

6 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

We had a discussion long ago on this board about the odds of playing college golf for men and women.  https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds

 

 

 

Given this information, many parents may shy away quite quickly.

 

 

While I agree with this I think the odd are little higher once you factor in those who just participate vs those that actually work at it.  Still a low percent for golf but awful lot parents with girls still think you just pick up a club take a few lessons and you get a free ride.

 

The reality is very different. The kids who get something all put in a ton of hours on the range and courses. 

 

I am going to say something that a lot people most likely don't agree with but the more and more i learn about college scholarships the more I am kind of turned off by a lot programs and pursing it actually may not be in most kids interest if they want to get better or just end up with a better education.

 

 

 

[Medson]

My revelation/transformation in the last 12 months:

 

Phase 1: "There are lots of unused scholarship in college women's golf. Pick up a club and save your Daddy some college money!"

 

Phase 2: "Okay. This is harder than I thought. Let's try harder, and play golf in college."

 

Phase 3: "Wow. This is definitely a lot harder than I previously thought. Maybe we should become an elite junior golfer first, then have a shot at college."

 

Phase 4: "Holy Molly. Playing elite at junior level is hard too. Let's do this for a few years and re-evaluate whether you wanna continue playing before you reach high school."

[Abh159]

37 minutes ago, Medson said:

My revelation/transformation in the last 12 months:

 

Phase 1: "There are lots of unused scholarship in college women's golf. Pick up a club and save your Daddy some college money!"

 

Phase 2: "Okay. This is harder than I thought. Let's try harder, and play golf in college."

 

Phase 3: "Wow. This is definitely a lot harder than I previously thought. Maybe we should become an elite junior golfer first, then have a shot at college."

 

Phase 4: "Holy Molly. Playing elite at junior level is hard too. Let's do this for a few years and re-evaluate whether you wanna continue playing before you reach high school."

 

Yeah everyone always assumes being a golfer is a sure-fire way to get a college scholarship if you're a girl, but that is hardly the case.

 

You might not have to put up scores as low as the boys, but you still have to be a fairly good player which requires a significant time investment and a lot of work. 

[heavy_hitter]

On 12/7/2020 at 3:49 PM, Abh159 said:

 

Yeah everyone always assumes being a golfer is a sure-fire way to get a college scholarship if you're a girl, but that is hardly the case.

 

You might not have to put up scores as low as the boys, but you still have to be a fairly good player which requires a significant time investment and a lot of work. 

It really isn't saving money either.  The likely hood of getting a full ride is slim to none.  If you go out of state on a partial it would be less expensive to stay in state without any money in most cases.