Reclass from 2022 to 2023 and recruiting nightmare

[Jkhogbear]

On 12/11/2020 at 9:02 AM, heavy_hitter said:

It really isn't saving money either.  The likely hood of getting a full ride is slim to none.  If you go out of state on a partial it would be less expensive to stay in state without any money in most cases.

Not sure on that.  I know several girls with full ride offers.  2022.  Success in AJGA events is important.

[chrissdc]

8 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

Not sure on that.  I know several girls with full ride offers.  2022.  Success in AJGA events is important.

To state the obvious, Girls/Ladies it is easier for full rides. Boys/Men it is so much tougher.

[heavy_hitter]

20 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

Not sure on that.  I know several girls with full ride offers.  2022.  Success in AJGA events is important.

I stand firm with what I said.

[tiger1873]

20 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

Not sure on that.  I know several girls with full ride offers.  2022.  Success in AJGA events is important.

 

Most the girls who are successful in AJGA events are thinking about going to the LPGA not college.  If they are they are aiming too low.  Colleges need the girls who will not turn pro if they want them for 4 years.    

 

Some college coaches are also delusional  and spread the rumor they can't find recruits with enough talent.   The true recruits are somewhere in the middle not the girls who can't break 80 and not the ones who regularly break par.  They also get partial scholarships and fill in with other scholarships like academic to get a full ride but usually not just golf.

Edited December 14, 2020 by tiger1873

[Abh159]

12 hours ago, chrissdc said:

To state the obvious, Girls/Ladies it is easier for full rides. Boys/Men it is so much tougher.

 

The odds are definitely higher (girls teams having a larger number of scholarships to give out), but it's still tough regardless of gender. 

 

20 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

Not sure on that.  I know several girls with full ride offers.  2022.  Success in AJGA events is important.

 

A "full ride" doesn't always mean they received a 100% athletic scholarship. Although it's possible, the majority of people who get a "full ride" are getting a mix of both athletic and academic money. This is why it's so important to have good test scores and a good GPA. Just having the bare minimum to get accepted to that school isn't really beneficial. You have a much better chance of being recruited by a top program if you can supplement the athletic money they give you with academic scholarship money. 

 

Coaches don't want to give out full academic scholarships because it can actually hurt the team's talent pool and their chances of being successful. Sure you can get 2 really great players by giving them full athletic scholarships, but then you still have to fill another 6-8 roster spots with only 2.5 scholarships left. The same concept exits on the girls side but it is admittedly easier for a girl's coach to fill a team with 1 or 2 players on full athletic scholarships.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

The odds are definitely higher (girls teams having a larger number of scholarships to give out), but it's still tough regardless of gender. 

 

 

A "full ride" doesn't always mean they received a 100% athletic scholarship. Although it's possible, the majority of people who get a "full ride" are getting a mix of both athletic and academic money. This is why it's so important to have good test scores and a good GPA. Just having the bare minimum to get accepted to that school isn't really beneficial. You have a much better chance of being recruited by a top program if you can supplement the athletic money they give you with academic scholarship money. 

 

Coaches don't want to give out full academic scholarships because it can actually hurt the team's talent pool and their chances of being successful. Sure you can get 2 really great players by giving them full athletic scholarships, but then you still have to fill another 6-8 roster spots with only 2.5 scholarships left. The same concept exits on the girls side but it is admittedly easier for a girl's coach to fill a team with 1 or 2 players on full athletic scholarships.

Yep.  I have been through the process with my daughter.  While possible to get full athletic for Women's golf, the likelihood is slim to none.  Coaches have it down to a science on how to build a team.  They all run on percentages and how they will hand the money out or at least try to.  The vast majority of girl's or guy's are not getting full athletic money for equivalency sports.  Show me 1 girl with a full ride and I will show you 6 without.'

 

AJGA isn't a needed commodity for girl's.  There are plenty of tours out there that girl's can play in with great competition with never playing in an AJGA.

 

With the days of Covid-19, I would say it may not be a needed commodity for boy's either.  Is it nice? Sure, but not needed especially for kids in California, Texas, and Florida.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

4 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Yep.  I have been through the process with my daughter.  While possible to get full athletic for Women's golf, the likelihood is slim to none.  Coaches have it down to a science on how to build a team.  They all run on percentages and how they will hand the money out or at least try to.  The vast majority of girl's or guy's are not getting full athletic money for equivalency sports.  Show me 1 girl with a full ride and I will show you 6 without.'

 

AJGA isn't a needed commodity for girl's.  There are plenty of tours out there that girl's can play in with great competition with never playing in an AJGA.

 

With the days of Covid-19, I would say it may not be a needed commodity for boy's either.  Is it nice? Sure, but not needed especially for kids in California, Texas, and Florida.

cough, cough, PKBT and about 3 others.  We will never give our money to the snubs of AJGA. 

 

Agree with your point about athletic money.  Son had 5 offers.  2 were for 12.5K a year.  2 for 15K and the final for Tuition plus partial board.  Academic to fill in the rest.  As I told him that is a full ride.  Yes, the coach didn't offer you a full athletic scholarship, but we aren't playing for anything in that deal.  You accomplished you goal.

 

To your point @HeavyHitter unless you are just a blue chip kid you're not getting that full ride (even then you probably aren't).  The coaches need to build their squads and have this down to a science.

 

My son got that offer cause its a northern NAIA school that made the transition from Div 2.  He is looking to rebuild.  Son wanted to a place he can start day one, so its a perfect fit I guess.

[heavy_hitter]

20 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

cough, cough, PKBT and about 3 others.  We will never give our money to the snubs of AJGA. 

 

Agree with your point about athletic money.  Son had 5 offers.  2 were for 12.5K a year.  2 for 15K and the final for Tuition plus partial board.  Academic to fill in the rest.  As I told him that is a full ride.  Yes, the coach didn't offer you a full athletic scholarship, but we aren't playing for anything in that deal.  You accomplished you goal.

 

To your point @HeavyHitter unless you are just a blue chip kid you're not getting that full ride (even then you probably aren't).  The coaches need to build their squads and have this down to a science.

 

My son got that offer cause its a northern NAIA school that made the transition from Div 2.  He is looking to rebuild.  Son wanted to a place he can start day one, so its a perfect fit I guess.

 

You are more likely to get money from D2 (even though they can only offer 50%), NAIA, and in some cases D3 depending on academic standing.  

[iteachgolf]

There’s still plenty of big D1 scholarships being given out for men’s golf.  Even more for women’s golf.  And I’m talking $10-15k a year to in state schools that are sub 5k a year tuition and $30-40k a year to out of state power 5 programs.  And that’s all athletic money.   
 

Now you better be really good, but they are out there and available.  I’ve had at least 1, and usually more than one,  receive one every year the last 7 years.  And have 2022 and 2023 players who already been offered those amounts. 

[Wdharrington]

im a class of 2021 and was lucky enough to grab a d2 roster spot for next year at a top 25 d2 program and i just played everything this summer but i know guys who lost offers and sport because of covid, and i honestly thought about a gap year as well, but recruiting classes this year where super small i mean my incoming class at the school im going too is 3 kids myself a friend who is a top 30 junior in the state and a kid from saddle-brook in florida. its definitely a year where a gap year would be a good option.

[iteachgolf]

15 minutes ago, Wdharrington said:

im a class of 2021 and was lucky enough to grab a d2 roster spot for next year at a top 25 d2 program and i just played everything this summer but i know guys who lost offers and sport because of covid, and i honestly thought about a gap year as well, but recruiting classes this year where super small i mean my incoming class at the school im going too is 3 kids myself a friend who is a top 30 junior in the state and a kid from saddle-brook in florida. its definitely a year where a gap year would be a good option.

Unless you’re really good (then you wouldn’t need one) or make a huge jump, a gap year won’t be very beneficial. There’s gonna be a ton of kids doing it and it’ll just make 2022 overly crowded. Especially since plenty of 2022s have already verbally committed.   Recruiting won’t be back to “normal” until 2023/2024 so pushing it back one year won’t change much IMO unless you’re a 2022 taking a gap year to get into 2023 class.  The 2021s that I know have fewer opportunities than they normally would but they still have multiple good opportunities to choose from, many essentially no money first year then full ride the next 3 kind of offers out there for good 2021 golfers. 

[tiger1873]

I am seeing a lot less girls in tournaments and many are falling off the rankings.   My younger daughters who is 10 having large fields is almost non-existent.  When I say this it was easy at the state level to see 20-30 girls 10-12 a few years ago and may even have to sign up early to even get in.  Now your lucky to get 10-12 show up.

 

Not sure if it is a result of covid for these younger ones but I know my 10 year she did not do very many because of covid. 

 

With my 13 year old I seeing less but it seems like kids are starting to drop too. Some of this I think is normal but it seems like overall tournaments are way easier to get in since less are applying to them.

 

I am guessing a lot parents have found our or heard scholarships are not so easy to come by.  I remember years ago people telling me just pick up a club you will get a free ride if your a girl. Obviously that was not true but I think a lot people believed it.

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

Unless you’re really good (then you wouldn’t need one) or make a huge jump, a gap year won’t be very beneficial. There’s gonna be a ton of kids doing it and it’ll just make 2022 overly crowded. Especially since plenty of 2022s have already verbally committed.   Recruiting won’t be back to “normal” until 2023/2024 so pushing it back one year won’t change much IMO unless you’re a 2022 taking a gap year to get into 2023 class.  The 2021s that I know have fewer opportunities than they normally would but they still have multiple good opportunities to choose from, many essentially no money first year then full ride the next 3 kind of offers out there for good 2021 golfers. 

 

I agree again.  I think it will get back to normal 2024.  If you really want to play college golf you will have to be willing to pay most of your own way up until then.  Can't really leave anything out as an option either, meaning NAIA DIII and Juco should be in the mix.

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

I agree again.  I think it will get back to normal 2024.  If you really want to play college golf you will have to be willing to pay most of your own way up until then.  Can't really leave anything out as an option either, meaning NAIA DIII and Juco should be in the mix.

 

 

2024 will be interesting for sure.  I am guessing that by the time we get to 2023 a lot kids will be burned by the process.  The days of tournaments having hundreds of juniors apply may not happen for a very long time. A big reason people play junior golf and worry about tours like the AJGA is to get scholarships.  If that doesn't happen why play them.

 

 AGJA is going to probably change a lot in a few years  to stay relevant.   No one likes the PBE stars system and they relied on way too many international kids to fill the tournaments.   

 

The best girls tournaments used to always be AGJA but looking at them this year I am seeing a lot individual tournaments like the Kathy Whitworth and Scott Robertson Memorial are actually better tournaments you want to  strive to play.

 

I think everyone wants to play AGJA but I think the costs and hoops are sort makes me take a step back figure out maybe it's better to play different events and get the same thing.

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

59 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

2024 will be interesting for sure.  I am guessing that by the time we get to 2023 a lot kids will be burned by the process.  The days of tournaments having hundreds of juniors apply may not happen for a very long time. A big reason people play junior golf and worry about tours like the AJGA is to get scholarships.  If that doesn't happen why play them.

 

 AGJA is going to probably change a lot in a few years  to stay relevant.   No one likes the PBE stars system and they relied on way too many international kids to fill the tournaments.   

 

The best girls tournaments used to always be AGJA but looking at them this year I am seeing a lot individual tournaments like the Kathy Whitworth and Scott Robertson Memorial are actually better tournaments you want to  strive to play.

 

I think everyone wants to play AGJA but I think the costs and hoops are sort makes me take a step back figure out maybe it's better to play different events and get the same thing.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

[MK7Golf21]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:38 PM, heavy_hitter said:

 

What someone tells you?  I did it.  The price is the price.  They can find money for academics and grants, but only if you qualify.  They don't have money laying around just to give.

 

 

you have to be willing to search out the grants and be on top of it. My jr. and sr. year I went to college for free at my states university without sports scholarships. My degree definitely paid off after I graduated, also many people just don't look at the money factor when they choose a school and degree. They pick some super expensive university and get an art degree or some other degree so when they graduate they will be working at walmart to pay off their tuition. You would be surprised how many smart kids do this, most of the time they don't really know how the real world works/had a job before, only book smart and their parents gave them money throughout hs and college. 

 

oh and there is no way I would ever stay back a year in HS for anything, sounds like a nightmare 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Redjeep83

[tssgj65]

On 10/9/2020 at 10:02 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 

If the school wanted them they could take them.  There is no roster limit for golf.  That is why it doesn't make sense to me.  

If young men win at the level they are at the next step will take care of itself.  Walkons as a rule aren't considered by many programs as tournaments outside of, and prior to college golf, provide ample opportunities to prove the game.  I understand why it doesn't make sense to some, but when coaches take on a developmental "project" just providing another spot on the team it does have its consequences as attention to the bottom of the lineup takes away time that could be spent on the better players.

[tssgj65]

On 10/15/2020 at 1:14 PM, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Difference in college and high school.  We both know that.

The general train of thought is to add 4 strokes to Jr/High School scores translating to college.

[tssgj65]

On 12/7/2020 at 1:08 PM, Medson said:

My revelation/transformation in the last 12 months:

 

Phase 1: "There are lots of unused scholarship in college women's golf. Pick up a club and save your Daddy some college money!"

 

Phase 2: "Okay. This is harder than I thought. Let's try harder, and play golf in college."

 

Phase 3: "Wow. This is definitely a lot harder than I previously thought. Maybe we should become an elite junior golfer first, then have a shot at college."

 

Phase 4: "Holy Molly. Playing elite at junior level is hard too. Let's do this for a few years and re-evaluate whether you wanna continue playing before you reach high school."

Unless they love it and have shown some promise, most would be better off spending the 20 hours per week dedicated to something else like studying or a part time job.

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, tssgj65 said:

If young men win at the level they are at the next step will take care of itself.  Walkons as a rule aren't considered by many programs as tournaments outside of, and prior to college golf, provide ample opportunities to prove the game.  I understand why it doesn't make sense to some, but when coaches take on a developmental "project" just providing another spot on the team it does have its consequences as attention to the bottom of the lineup takes away time that could be spent on the better players.

Maverick McNealy was a walk on at Stanford. 

[tssgj65]

11 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Maverick McNealy was a walk on at Stanford. 

"As a rule" was my statement.  Conrad Ray has the pick of the litter in the golf world.....

[leezer99]

19 minutes ago, tssgj65 said:

"As a rule" was my statement.  Conrad Ray has the pick of the litter in the golf world.....

No he doesn’t and he’s on the record saying so. He can only pick from students that can get into Stanford and that isn’t a whole lot of high school kids that neglect school for golf. 

[tssgj65]

3 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

No he doesn’t and he’s on the record saying so. He can only pick from students that can get into Stanford and that isn’t a whole lot of high school kids that neglect school for golf. 

"Pick of the litter" includes talent as well as being a good student.  Coaches don't want poor students.

[iteachgolf]

49 minutes ago, tssgj65 said:

"As a rule" was my statement.  Conrad Ray has the pick of the litter in the golf world.....

I can name a lot of walk inside who not only played but became top players winning all conference and all American honors.  Half of UFs lineup last year were walkons playing over big scholarship players

[tssgj65]

Just now, iteachgolf said:

I can name a lot of walk inside who not only played but became top players winning all conference and all American honors.  Half of UFs lineup last year were walkons playing over big scholarship players

Reiterate:  As a rule

[iteachgolf]

Just now, tssgj65 said:

Reiterate:  As a rule

And I’m telling you it’s not “as a rule”.  I’d say almost all good programs have a walk on/book scholarship kid in the starting line up/playing regularly.  Every school has walk ons on the team. 

[tssgj65]

1 hour ago, iteachgolf said:

And I’m telling you it’s not “as a rule”.  I’d say almost all good programs have a walk on/book scholarship kid in the starting line up/playing regularly.  Every school has walk ons on the team. 

If you're referring to an athlete that doesn't get any money as a "walk on" I would agree with you.  However it is completely false that "Every school has walk ons."  A coach will generally speak to kids that enroll and want to see if they can play with the team.  Without some previous success they will not gain a spot on the team.

[iteachgolf]

1 hour ago, tssgj65 said:

If you're referring to an athlete that doesn't get any money as a "walk on" I would agree with you.  However it is completely false that "Every school has walk ons."  A coach will generally speak to kids that enroll and want to see if they can play with the team.  Without some previous success they will not gain a spot on the team.

A non scholarship player is a walk on. That’s the definition.  To play college golf of course you have to show ability.  That’s like saying water is wet   Every coach uses walk ons.  That doesn’t mean they hold open try outs like it’s high school golf.  

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

This is an interesting and provocative topic

 

I started his thread not knowing whether my oldest should reclass (or take a gap year) due to COVID; we are undecided at this point, but keep the option open

 

With respect to walk ons, one thought I have is, if a player is good enough to walk on to an elite program (like UF), wouldn't they (family) be better off leveraging that skill in getting a scholarship at another school or at least using that ability to get into a better academic school than they would normally be able to?  This assumes no long-term professional aspirations, which probably applies to 99% of college golfers

[iteachgolf]

14 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

This is an interesting and provocative topic

 

I started his thread not knowing whether my oldest should reclass (or take a gap year) due to COVID; we are undecided at this point, but keep the option open

 

With respect to walk ons, one thought I have is, if a player is good enough to walk on to an elite program (like UF), wouldn't they (family) be better off leveraging that skill in getting a scholarship at another school or at least using that ability to get into a better academic school than they would normally be able to?  This assumes no long-term professional aspirations, which probably applies to 99% of college golfers

That’s where you’re way off the mark. Not a single kid good enough to play at UF isn’t planning on playing professionally.  90+% of D1 golfers at power 5 schools want to play professional golf. 
 

And UF is a very good school.