Reclass from 2022 to 2023 and recruiting nightmare

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

7 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

That’s where you’re way off the mark. Not a single kid good enough to play at UF isn’t planning on playing professionally.  90+% of D1 golfers at power 5 schools want to play professional golf. 
 

And UF is a very good school. 

What % of UF grads end up playing on Tour longer than 5 years?

[iteachgolf]

1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

What % of UF grads end up playing on Tour longer than 5 years?

I didn’t say they actually play on Tour. I’m saying they ALL have the goal to play on tour and are diligently working towards that. They aren’t just playing to get a scholarship.  They are playing against the top competition to reach their goal.  Even if it doesn’t come to fruition 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

18 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

I didn’t say they actually play on Tour. I’m saying they ALL have the goal to play on tour and are diligently working towards that. They aren’t just playing to get a scholarship.  They are playing against the top competition to reach their goal.  Even if it doesn’t come to fruition 

I think most players would benefit from a parent/coach/mentor explaining to them what the odds are of making it as a playing professional, and giving them guidance on a solid backup plan

Edited January 17, 2021 by ConcernedBoutCOVID

[tssgj65]

21 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

A non scholarship player is a walk on. That’s the definition.  To play college golf of course you have to show ability.  That’s like saying water is wet   Every coach uses walk ons.  That doesn’t mean they hold open try outs like it’s high school golf.  

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, however I don’t need to debate semantics.  I’ll excuse your comment about water and “every coach” as you were having a bad day.   I won’t go into my credentials as a player and as a coach, but I will tell you I have the perspective of the recruiting process as a player and a coach, as well as a parent of a son that played for a GCAA HOF coach, which coach has a major college tournament named after him.

 

100% of my guys are recruited and I do not give any opportunity for walk ons.  I have commented here only to provide advice to any parents/athletes that choose to hear my opinion.  Athletes wanting to be recruited must be good students (I need 3.0 at a minimum) and of course have some prior success/talent/untapped potential/and respect their parents.  The goal of any parent should be to find the best fit for their son/daughter.  A place where they can compete and have a chance to play, and to have a great college experience – which is created by the coach and program.  If the athlete is serious about golf and has exhibited some talent in the game, there will be a place for them to play – however it may not be at the level they wish.  The planning put in by the parent and the athlete can help to gain the best fit for their collegiate goals and offers– which is how I advise all young men with which I come into contact.  If they definitely want to play collegiate golf, I would absolutely recommend this approach over attempting to walk on.

 

COVID has really bunched up the 21’ and 22’ classes with an extra year for every athlete (I do have a 22’ verbal at this point), and I feel bad for the parents going through the process now.  Further, due to budget constraints there are a few programs that have been dropped completely so there are fewer places to play than a year ago.  To reduce budget burdens for the less well financed programs, the NCAA reduced the number of allowed competition dates for the 20’-21’ season from 21 to 16, so this season we will have fewer tournament rounds for my guys.  For a while there will be more athletes, fewer places to play, and fewer tournaments.

 

Find the best fit for your son/daughter’s collegiate goals through the recruiting process.

 

Have a great day.

Edited January 17, 2021 by tssgj65

[tssgj65]

37 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

I think most players would benefit from a parent/coach/mentor explaining to them what the odds are of making it as a playing professional, and giving them guidance on a solid backup plan

You are spot on.  Everyone needs to gain an education.  However I only recruit players that aspire to play professionally as that desire is what will drive them to work hard.  College golf is a grind if they don't have that goal and don't want to put in the time.  They have to love it as they will be working on their games when some of their non athlete buddies are having a good time.

 

As I recommend to all young men, find the best fit for their collegiate goals.

[iteachgolf]

10 hours ago, tssgj65 said:

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, however I don’t need to debate semantics.  I’ll excuse your comment about water and “every coach” as you were having a bad day.   I won’t go into my credentials as a player and as a coach, but I will tell you I have the perspective of the recruiting process as a player and a coach, as well as a parent of a son that played for a GCAA HOF coach, which coach has a major college tournament named after him.

 

100% of my guys are recruited and I do not give any opportunity for walk ons.  I have commented here only to provide advice to any parents/athletes that choose to hear my opinion.  Athletes wanting to be recruited must be good students (I need 3.0 at a minimum) and of course have some prior success/talent/untapped potential/and respect their parents.  The goal of any parent should be to find the best fit for their son/daughter.  A place where they can compete and have a chance to play, and to have a great college experience – which is created by the coach and program.  If the athlete is serious about golf and has exhibited some talent in the game, there will be a place for them to play – however it may not be at the level they wish.  The planning put in by the parent and the athlete can help to gain the best fit for their collegiate goals and offers– which is how I advise all young men with which I come into contact.  If they definitely want to play collegiate golf, I would absolutely recommend this approach over attempting to walk on.

 

COVID has really bunched up the 21’ and 22’ classes with an extra year for every athlete (I do have a 22’ verbal at this point), and I feel bad for the parents going through the process now.  Further, due to budget constraints there are a few programs that have been dropped completely so there are fewer places to play than a year ago.  To reduce budget burdens for the less well financed programs, the NCAA reduced the number of allowed competition dates for the 20’-21’ season from 21 to 16, so this season we will have fewer tournament rounds for my guys.  For a while there will be more athletes, fewer places to play, and fewer tournaments.

 

Find the best fit for your son/daughter’s collegiate goals through the recruiting process.

 

Have a great day.

Again I didn’t say they weren’t recruited.  Non scholarship players have been called walk ons for my entire 20 years experience, whether recruited or not.  My experience includes coaching 5 NCAA National Champions, and 2 NAIA National Championships and a lot of All Americans and All Conference selections at top 25 programs.   Matt Every was a “walk on” and considered himself a walk on and every article about him calls him a walk on.  He was recruited and was a 4 time All American and Ben Hogan Award winner. 

[BFD3]

Football teams call invited/recruited, non-scholarship athletes “preferred” walk-ons. There is a pretty clear difference between them and kids who show up for a tryout. They often will give up scholarship money at smaller schools to fulfill their dreams of playing big-time football. You two seem to be speaking about the same type of kid but viewing it differently. I was talking to someone at work today who played golf for Notre Dame a long time ago. He said he got enough money to pay for his books. Knowing that there isn’t much money to go around for golf, I would assume most kids at P5 programs are essentially PWO’s

 

edit. IIRC, if a kid takes an official/paid visit to a school, he cannot come to that school as a walk-on.

Edited January 18, 2021 by BFD3

[heavy_hitter]

On 1/16/2021 at 11:56 AM, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

This is an interesting and provocative topic

 

I started his thread not knowing whether my oldest should reclass (or take a gap year) due to COVID; we are undecided at this point, but keep the option open

 

With respect to walk ons, one thought I have is, if a player is good enough to walk on to an elite program (like UF), wouldn't they (family) be better off leveraging that skill in getting a scholarship at another school or at least using that ability to get into a better academic school than they would normally be able to?  This assumes no long-term professional aspirations, which probably applies to 99% of college golfers

 

Chasing a scholarship is a huge mistake, and that is what you are talking about doing.  I would rather pay for my kid to play at a school that he likes than get a scholarship from a school that he is iffy about.  This statement is coming from someone who had the same thoughts as you when my daughter went to school on scholarship.  Going to a school that gives you the MOST money is a huge mistake.  With my son, I don't give a **** whether he gets a scholarship or not.  Just want him to go an play where he wants to play.  Scholarships, in many cases, gives the coach the ability to hold a kid hostage.

Edited January 18, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[Abh159]

9 hours ago, BFD3 said:

Football teams call invited/recruited, non-scholarship athletes “preferred” walk-ons. There is a pretty clear difference between them and kids who show up for a tryout. They often will give up scholarship money at smaller schools to fulfill their dreams of playing big-time football. You two seem to be speaking about the same type of kid but viewing it differently.

 

This is exactly right. There are two types of athletes who walk on... 1) an athlete who was recruited to be a part of the team but does not receive any scholarship money for it, and 2) an athlete who makes the team via some sort of "tryout" after they are already enrolled.

 

Technically, they are both considered a walk-on by NCAA standards, but their path to get there is totally different. That being said... when I played college golf we had two members of the team who were "walk-ons", but both were recruited to come there. Never once did our coach consider hosting some sort of tryout for people who he did not recruit. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Abh159

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

This is exactly right. There are two types of athletes who walk on... 1) an athlete who was recruited to be a part of the team but does not receive any scholarship money for it, and 2) an athlete who makes the team via some sort of "tryout" after they are already enrolled.

 

Technically, they are both considered a walk-on by NCAA standards, but their path to get there is totally different. That being said... when I played college golf we had two members of the team who were "walk-ons", but both were recruited to come there. Never once did our coach consider hosting some sort of tryout for people who he did not recruit. 

Brooks Koepka was a walk on at FSU.  He received Book Money only.

[Noles]

So is every kid that plays an Ivy League sport a walk on?

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Chasing a scholarship is a huge mistake, and that is what you are talking about doing.  I would rather pay for my kid to play at a school that he likes than get a scholarship from a school that he is iffy about.  This statement is coming from someone who had the same thoughts as you when my daughter went to school on scholarship.  Going to a school that gives you the MOST money is a huge mistake.  With my son, I don't give a **** whether he gets a scholarship or not.  Just want him to go an play where he wants to play.  Scholarships, in many cases, gives the coach the ability to hold a kid hostage.

 

I actually have never advocated "chasing a scholarship".  Quite frankly, most kids would be better off using golf to get into a better academic school, because ultimately that directly correlates with future success, but that gets lost on most people reading this forum. 

[heavy_hitter]

4 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

 

I actually have never advocated "chasing a scholarship".  Quite frankly, most kids would be better off using golf to get into a better academic school, because ultimately that directly correlates with future success, but that gets lost on most people reading this forum. 

 

The title of the thread that you started is Reclass from 2022 to 2023 and Recruiting Nightmares.  That indicates to me  chasing scholarships.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

8 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

The title of the thread that you started is Reclass from 2022 to 2023 and Recruiting Nightmares.  That indicates to me  chasing scholarships.

 

Getting recruited is not only for scholarship $.  Noles points that out in his post above. 

 

I would say, for high academic D1 and D3 (where recruits actually need a high SAT and GPA to even get through the admissions process, even withcoach support), most of the kids getting recruited aren't doing it to chase a golf career - they are using golf to get into the best academic school they can.  Which is very different than simply to want him to go an play where he wants to play.

Edited January 18, 2021 by ConcernedBoutCOVID

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

 

Getting recruited is not only for scholarship $.  Noles points that out in his post above. 

 

I would say, for high academic D1 and D3 (where recruits actually need a high SAT and GPA to even get through the admissions process, even withcoach support), most of the kids getting recruited aren't doing it to chase a golf career - they are using golf to get into the best academic school they can.  Which is very different than simply to want him to go an play where he wants to play.

 

I agree.  But when you are thinking about re-classing you are thinking about scholarship and playing opportunities, not academic opportunities.

[Noles]

1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

 

Getting recruited is not only for scholarship $.  Noles points that out in his post above. 

 

I would say, for high academic D1 and D3 (where recruits actually need a high SAT and GPA to even get through the admissions process, even withcoach support), most of the kids getting recruited aren't doing it to chase a golf career - they are using golf to get into the best academic school they can.  Which is very different than simply to want him to go an play where he wants to play.

What level of school is your son interested in, if you don't mind sharing.  I'm not asking you to identify a school by name, but maybe the conference or another detail that would give us an indication of the level you and your son are interested in.

[B. Agnew]

I want to help anyone who has a 2022 or 2023 grad that aspires to play college golf.  Today is January 28th, 2022.  Most of the recruiting for the class of 2023 has already been done.  It is scary out there.  I can speak about this now that my son has verbally committed to play at a mid-major D1 school in the Midwest.  To paint a little bit of a background, my son has a 3.981 GPA, and was ranked #650 overall on JGS.  He was ranked inside the top 200 in the class of 2023.  He emailed several schools, as in about 100 schools throughout the country, that he wanted just to inquire about each school's needs for the 2023 class.  The overwhelming majority have already received commitments, or have offered all of their intended targets for 2023.  These spots are made up of kids that are ranked in the top 100 JGS.  Also, there are not as many spots available to the top teams due to additional years of eligibility due to Covid.  Essentially, any prospect today is fighting for a roster spot with SIX years of eligibilities, not the traditional four.  Now, throw in the transfer portal, and you can start to see where all of the available spots have disappeared to. There will ALWAYS to a roster spot for the top rated players in the country.  Please just make yourself aware that most of the "Big Dogs" are outfitting their rosters with JGS top 150 kids, proven college golfers out of the transfer portal, and foreign golfers from overseas.  As you check out each college's roster online, you will notice that most have foreign players on their roster.  Why?  This one will hurt you...because foreign players don't have to pay out of state tuition (as in they qualify for in-state tuition).  Also, most of the countries cover the costs for their players to come over here, so the money needed doesn't come out of the golf team's budget.  Are you scared yet?  Should be.  Start looking into the mid-majors now.  Look at the D2, D3, and NAIA programs.  You can go pro from anywhere.  Find the right fit for your kid, but be ready to target a different level of school.  If you are a 2023 grad, start scrapping now.  The race just didn't start, for most, the race is almost over.  Good Luck out there.

[Tugu]

20 hours ago, B. Agnew said:

As you check out each college's roster online, you will notice that most have foreign players on their roster.  Why?  This one will hurt you...because foreign players don't have to pay out of state tuition (as in they qualify for in-state tuition).  

No comment on the rest of the post, but "international" students DO NOT receive in-state tuition. I know this first hand as my son is tossing up between D1, D2 and NAIA offers at this exact moment and looked at this exact topic.

 

P.s Wish we would get some of that money foreign countries supposedly give to their college golfers. We have heard of this talk, but none of my son's predecessors from our small country got any funds. Two of them were WAGR #1 and one is now a PGA tour winner. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[heavy_hitter]

22 hours ago, B. Agnew said:

I want to help anyone who has a 2022 or 2023 grad that aspires to play college golf.  Today is January 28th, 2022.  Most of the recruiting for the class of 2023 has already been done.  It is scary out there.  I can speak about this now that my son has verbally committed to play at a mid-major D1 school in the Midwest.  To paint a little bit of a background, my son has a 3.981 GPA, and was ranked #650 overall on JGS.  He was ranked inside the top 200 in the class of 2023.  He emailed several schools, as in about 100 schools throughout the country, that he wanted just to inquire about each school's needs for the 2023 class.  The overwhelming majority have already received commitments, or have offered all of their intended targets for 2023.  These spots are made up of kids that are ranked in the top 100 JGS.  Also, there are not as many spots available to the top teams due to additional years of eligibility due to Covid.  Essentially, any prospect today is fighting for a roster spot with SIX years of eligibilities, not the traditional four.  Now, throw in the transfer portal, and you can start to see where all of the available spots have disappeared to. There will ALWAYS to a roster spot for the top rated players in the country.  Please just make yourself aware that most of the "Big Dogs" are outfitting their rosters with JGS top 150 kids, proven college golfers out of the transfer portal, and foreign golfers from overseas.  As you check out each college's roster online, you will notice that most have foreign players on their roster.  Why?  This one will hurt you...because foreign players don't have to pay out of state tuition (as in they qualify for in-state tuition).  Also, most of the countries cover the costs for their players to come over here, so the money needed doesn't come out of the golf team's budget.  Are you scared yet?  Should be.  Start looking into the mid-majors now.  Look at the D2, D3, and NAIA programs.  You can go pro from anywhere.  Find the right fit for your kid, but be ready to target a different level of school.  If you are a 2023 grad, start scrapping now.  The race just didn't start, for most, the race is almost over.  Good Luck out there.

 

Well said and experiencing the same thing as my kid is a 2023.  Would rather go mid tier D2 or High End D3 than low end D1.

[Jkhogbear]

So a full scholarship vs a “walk on”?  Unless you are pretty wealthy, I kinda like saving $80,000-$100,000 by taking a scholarship especially when you have a better chance to play at the scholarship place (assuming good coach, facilities, etc). 
 

I get “not to chase the most money” if school A is giving you 10 percent less than school B and you like school A better but when there is a huge difference in finances  it seems an easy decision to make. 
 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Jkhogbear

[MB19]

13 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

So a full scholarship vs a “walk on”?  Unless you are pretty wealthy, I kinda like saving $80,000-$100,000 by taking a scholarship especially when you have a better chance to play at the scholarship place (assuming good coach, facilities, etc). 
 

I get “not to chase the most money” if school A is giving you 10 percent less than school B and you like school A better but when there is a huge difference in finances  it seems an easy decision to make. 
 

 

You are talking about an elite junior if $80-100K is your projected savings.  Not many college golfers get full-rides.

[uskidsdad]

No way we would do a gap year just for golf. It's tough to hear, but if your kid is actually good enough they will have plenty of offers. If your kid isn't good enough, then their chances they are ever going to make a professionally are very very low. Send them to a D2 school or whatever you have to do, have a standout year, and then transfer

[heavy_hitter]

On 1/29/2022 at 9:37 PM, Jkhogbear said:

So a full scholarship vs a “walk on”?  Unless you are pretty wealthy, I kinda like saving $80,000-$100,000 by taking a scholarship especially when you have a better chance to play at the scholarship place (assuming good coach, facilities, etc). 
 

I get “not to chase the most money” if school A is giving you 10 percent less than school B and you like school A better but when there is a huge difference in finances  it seems an easy decision to make. 
 

 

What golf school is throwing out Full Scholarships?  If you are male and get 40% in athletic money, you did a good job.  If you are female and get 60% you did a good job.  It is actually the same amount of money in state to walk on at a public school than take 60% out of state public institution or private school.

 

Billy Horschel had one offer to UF as a preferred Walk On.

Brooks Koepka got books money at FSU.

 

Going to college is not about playing golf. It is about getting a great education and still having the opportunity to play golf.  You want to be at a place you like if golf goes wrong.  More so on the female side of things, there are some real whackos coaching in college.

Edited January 31, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[Jkhogbear]

I don’t doubt there are many that do the preferred walk on thing.  I consider “full” scholarship when the coach says they will cover whatever the academic scholarship doesn’t cover.  In this case yes like 75 percent.    Hard to turn that down especially if they like the coach and school.  We were offered preferred walk on at some other places.

[heavy_hitter]

29 minutes ago, Jkhogbear said:

I don’t doubt there are many that do the preferred walk on thing.  I consider “full” scholarship when the coach says they will cover whatever the academic scholarship doesn’t cover.  In this case yes like 75 percent.    Hard to turn that down especially if they like the coach and school.  We were offered preferred walk on at some other places.

 

 

When they get the NLI letter, it will not say  "We will cover whatever the academic scholarship doesn't cover."  There will be an exact amount of what you will get.  You have to ask the specific amount.  What you just said means they are covering classes and not room and board.

[BloctonGolf11]

45 minutes ago, Jkhogbear said:

I don’t doubt there are many that do the preferred walk on thing.  I consider “full” scholarship when the coach says they will cover whatever the academic scholarship doesn’t cover.  In this case yes like 75 percent.    Hard to turn that down especially if they like the coach and school.  We were offered preferred walk on at some other places.

If you think Golf Scholarships are covering 75% of costs you know absolutely nothing about Golf or other non-revenue sports scholarships. The amount of kids who will get that kind of scholarship off golf is so small it is not relevant to any conversation. 

[Jkhogbear]

2 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

If you think Golf Scholarships are covering 75% of costs you know absolutely nothing about Golf or other non-revenue sports scholarships. The amount of kids who will get that kind of scholarship off golf is so small it is not relevant to any conversation. 

Ok,  believe you want to believe.  This is where we are it in the process.  

[Jkhogbear]

13 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

 

When they get the NLI letter, it will not say  "We will cover whatever the academic scholarship doesn't cover."  There will be an exact amount of what you will get.  You have to ask the specific amount.  What you just said means they are covering classes and not room and board.

Yes, verbally the said they will cover whatever academic doesn’t cover.  Then we apply for academic money and then yes we get an official amount.   I have read the NLI letter.  

[BloctonGolf11]

1 minute ago, Jkhogbear said:

Ok,  believe you want to believe.  This is where we are it in the process.  

D1 programs have 4.5 scholarships to spread around 8 - 12 person rosters. D2 programs have 3.6 to spread around 8 - 12 person rosters. This isn't hard to figure out that scholarships covering 75% are going to be exceedingly rare. I don't have to believe what I want to believe, facts are stubborn things. 

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

D1 programs have 4.5 scholarships to spread around 8 - 12 person rosters. D2 programs have 3.6 to spread around 8 - 12 person rosters. This isn't hard to figure out that scholarships covering 75% are going to be exceedingly rare. I don't have to believe what I want to believe, facts are stubborn things. 

What I gather is we are talking about a female athlete.  75% is more common.  The way I read it is 75% of academic money, not room and board.