Making golf easier: Single length vs hybrid irons

[SugarLandGolfer]

I am trying to make golf as easy as I possibly can, and I honestly don’t care what the clubs look like.
 

background: turned 34 and fairly athletic. Use the yellow whip for tempo and tourstriker belt for swing plane. Came to golfer later than my friends and still struggle to break 100. Joined local country club during pandemic and practicing a lot over the summer. 

I see two paths to make the game easier:

1) hybrid irons with shafts to keep the flight down

2) single length irons

 

I did a demo day with Cleveland recent and tried the launchers with i95 steelfiber shafts and they felt amazing. Only his the 8 iron, and it felt like hitting the ball with a sledgehammer. However, I’m still concerned about the longer clubs. Hence single length.

 

If you were making the easiest to play set, which direction would you go and why?

[Fairway14]

1 hour ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

I am trying to make golf as easy as I possibly can

 

The best thing you can do is learn and practice fundamentally sound grip technique.

[NoTalentLefty]

Lessons for sure but their are a few ways to do it. Hybrids for the 3 thru 5 6 or 7 irons is also a way. Offset in irons and hybrids, fairway woods , etc. Single length as you say. It’s a great thought but the only way the game got easier for me was golfing a lot. Then as I got older and was familiar with the swing , I filled in what clubs to play. I’m 60+ now and the only club I never Been comfortable with since the advent of the 400+ CC head Is the driver. Godspeed on your search. 

[pinestreetgolf]

13 hours ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

I am trying to make golf as easy as I possibly can, and I honestly don’t care what the clubs look like.
 

background: turned 34 and fairly athletic. Use the yellow whip for tempo and tourstriker belt for swing plane. Came to golfer later than my friends and still struggle to break 100. Joined local country club during pandemic and practicing a lot over the summer. 

I see two paths to make the game easier:

1) hybrid irons with shafts to keep the flight down

2) single length irons

 

I did a demo day with Cleveland recent and tried the launchers with i95 steelfiber shafts and they felt amazing. Only his the 8 iron, and it felt like hitting the ball with a sledgehammer. However, I’m still concerned about the longer clubs. Hence single length.

 

If you were making the easiest to play set, which direction would you go and why?

 

Neither one.  Its like asking us which is easier to put on, a small shirt or a XXL shirt?  Well, it kinda matters what size you are.

 

Your swing determines which is "easier".  The question itself belies a fundamental misunderstanding about how to shoot a low score, and that is correlating golf and golf swing.  Your basic question is "which of these clubs makes playing golf swing easier" when that has relatively little to do with your score.  Golf is a game of decisions.  It is much closer to chess than tennis.  You score lower when you make better decisions.  Mechanics and equipment help (a lot) but they do it inside the context of an overall game and the way you swing.  There is no objective answer to getting better except figuring out how to get the ball in the hole in fewer strokes.  There is no answer to this question.

[SugarLandGolfer]

1 hour ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Neither one.  Its like asking us which is easier to put on, a small shirt or a XXL shirt?  Well, it kinda matters what size you are.

 

Your swing determines which is "easier".  The question itself belies a fundamental misunderstanding about how to shoot a low score, and that is correlating golf and golf swing.  Your basic question is "which of these clubs makes playing golf swing easier" when that has relatively little to do with your score.  Golf is a game of decisions.  It is much closer to chess than tennis.  You score lower when you make better decisions.  Mechanics and equipment help (a lot) but they do it inside the context of an overall game and the way you swing.  There is no objective answer to getting better except figuring out how to get the ball in the hole in fewer strokes.  There is no answer to this question.

I guess the question is as I’m continuing to make an effort to improve my swing, play weekly and do all of the things to get better, the club still has to make contact with the ball. If it was just about swinging a stick at the ball and making a decision, people wouldn’t start every conversation about which clubs to get with “go get fit”.
 

Hybrid irons like the Cleveland Launchers and Cobra T-rails are designed with incredible forgiveness, but you still have the variable of ball position and different swing planes. Single length irons remove the variable of ball position and swing plane, but they aren’t as forgiving on off center hits. 
 

At the end of the day, I do want to get the ball on the hole in fewer strokes; I’m just curious if anyone thinks one way type of iron is easier than the other. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by SugarLandGolfer

[bluedot]

The problem you are going to have with your question is that few, if any, replies are going to be from individuals who have used both types of sets.  And if you get a reply from somebody who has used only one, you run into a version of confirmation bias from guys who are justifying the money that they spent on their set.

 

And you're right; these are VERY different approaches to your game.  If golf was only those two choices, I think better players would go single length, since they already possess a good swing and are looking for "repeatability", while lesser players might opt for hybrid irons to compensate for a not-so-good swing.  It's an oversimplification, of course, but you sort of have to decide which of those two you are, or are going to be.

 

All of that said, you don't really say how long you've been at this, what your current index is, or the extent to which you've had lessons.  You mention in the OP that you practiced "a lot" over the summer, but you don't say what "a lot" means, or how you were practicing.  Both of the equipment options that you mention are sort of "niche" options in equipment world; whether or not either makes sense for you depends in part on where along the path of golf you are right now.  I'm a little skeptical of both options; I don't see good players doing either one, at least not now/yet. 

 

So maybe conventional fitted equipment, with an emphasis on game improvement features, plus top shelf instruction and Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 reps is the best path forward?

 

 

[OsnolaKinnard]

Kirk Junge set up for impact on YouTube will help you build a simple, repeatable, and powerful swing.

 

I am a big fan of his method vs other single plane/multi plane swing teachers...he focuses on basics and comfort during the swing.

 

I switched to a single plane swing and started watching Kirk Junge 2 years ago and it has made a world of difference for me.

 

FYI...I play single length irons...and it helped my game, but I dont think your gear is the key to rapid improvement for you right now.

Edited September 26, 2020 by OsnolaKinnard

[pinestreetgolf]

21 hours ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

Single length irons remove the variable of ball position and swing plane, but they aren’t as forgiving on off center hits. 

 

They only do that at the driving range unless you play golf on a geometrically perfectly flat golf course.  If the lie is 2* sidehill or downhill or uphill your "one ball position, one plane" idea doesn't work anymore.  That was the point of my post.  In an environment where everything is perfect (range) eliminating shaft length as a variable eliminates those things.  On an actual golf course on planet earth, its nonsense.  Single length can be great for certain players, but not because they "remove the variable of ball position and swing plane".  When you are actually playing golf that isn't true at all.  Single length is great because it brings the sweet spot closer to the ball and makes it much easier to hit.  This is at the expense of speed.

 

Players with very high swing speeds (Bryson) benefit a lot from SL because they don't need the extra speed of a longer shaft but the SL shaft allows them to hit it easier.  Just like cutting down a driver.  A 42" driver hits the sweet spot more often but is way slower (in terms of clubhead speed) than a 48" driver.  If you are really fast, but struggle with hitting the middle, try SL.  Otherwise, they won't do much for you.

 

Single length irons are identically forgiving on off center hits.  Where do you get this stuff?  A Cobra OneTec (latest single length) is just the 7 iron head from their non-single length set.  They are identical.  If you choose 36.5", you'll get the 8 iron head, and 36.5" the 6 iron head, just in different lofts.  They have no more or less forgiveness than the equivalent 6/7/8 iron of VL.

[OsnolaKinnard]

Y'all are talking about SL club 'theory'.  I have been playing Edel SLS01's for 2 years.

 

I am a taller golfer 6'4" tall.  I am muscular fatty athletic guy at 290 pounds.  My hands look like miniature Christmas hams with sausages for fingers.  I was the 'fat kid' that was strong, could run, catch and throw.

 

I have never...EVER felt comfortable with a club less than a 7 iron.  I always felt all hunched over and uncomfortable and despite playing VL Irons at +1" long, I never liked hitting an 8-LW.  I just felt like I was playing with a child's club.  I was fitted...and "they" always said I was a +1" 3* upright player...for any iron I used.

 

I saw the SL irons and thought, Hmmm that's neat.  I had a friend build me an old Ram Tour Grind PW at 38" long.  It was COMICAL, but it was also love at first swing.  I used to hit my VL PW about 115-120 yards.  I hit this 38" sledgehammer feeling PW the same distance, but the trajectory was TOWERING and the spin was incredible.  Next up, a friend built me a SL Pinhawk 6 iron and PW at 37.5" long and 2* upright.  Again, it was love at first swing.  I LOVED the PW, and found that I hit better quality shots, hit better chips and pitches and half swings and knockdowns. It was AWESOME.

 

I went to my local Edwin Watts to see about getting fitted for a set of Cobra Forged One Length irons.  I was excited and they immediately tried talking me out of them and away from SL.  The reason being...none of them knew a darn thing about them. They weren't ugly about it or anything but they were stealing me away from them.

 

I then contacted Edel Golf and had a fitting setup in Corpus Christi.  The sales rep met me at a local driving range, and put me through their fitting process.  I hit a TON of combinations.  I hit everything from 3 iron-SW with 85, 95, 115 gram shafts in regular stiff, x still, in various launch profiles, etc.  My best combination for dispersion, feel, and trajectory were a 274 gram head, 2* upright, and a 37.5" length.  That being said, I did NOT care for the 3 and 4 iron at that short length, so I did not purchase them.  I ended up buying 5-GW.

 

When I was in Iowa, I carried a 6.5 index using VL irons, etc.   I played and worked at the game constantly, if there was no snow, I was playing.  When I moved back down south, I started fishing again, and believe, me, coastal saltwater fishing vs golf, fishing wins every day and twice on Sunday.  I stopped playing for 10 years and got really good at fishing.  5 year ago, my solitary kidney started acting up, and I was told to give up fishing as it was a huge infection risk, so I started playing golf again.  Man...I STUNK.  I went from posting scores in the 72-82 range to posting scores like 95-105.  I hit the ball all over the place and could not get up and down to save my life.  I started working at my game, and became a student of Kirk Junge on YouTube.  I started researching gear, and the SL was the way to go for me.  

 

in 2019, I set a goal to break 80 consistently.  I started playing and practicing in March, when I received my new irons from Edel.  In September, I was scheduled for cancer surgery on 9/11/2019 with my kidney.  On my last round with my wife, I posted a 79 with a birdie on 18 to finish.  Due to a pretty big surgery, I was unable to swing a club for 12 weeks.  This past year, I stared my comeback and I broke 80 4 times and posted many scores in the 80-83 range.  I have no idea what my handicap is now.  I had another bout with cancer this year, almost 12 months to the day, and just had surgery 2 weeks ago to remove it. I am now 3 weeks from being able to swing a club.  I expect that once I start, I will come back even more quickly.

 

Here is my point.  I have a swing that is incredibly simple, repeatable, and consistent.  I am a firm believer in the single plane swing.  I am a firm believer in SL Irons for taller golfers.  The OEM's discuss better contact in the long irons...the truth is, the longer short irons are a benefit to taller golfers.  I mentioned my size earlier because I have absolutely ZERO in common with any professional golfer physically.  If you want to have some NFL Defensive Linemen play the game...that's pretty much me.  I have been able to come back QUICKLY because of how simple things are for me.  Build a swing that works for you, commit to learning to keep the driver in play and get up and down well.  Once you are doing those things, build your clubs around YOUR game.

 

I really cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you about my 'goof journey', and some of the good things I did and some of the poorer decisions I made and hopefully I can help you on your journey. I will repeat this...check out Kirk Junge 'set up for. impact' videos, and don't focus so munch on equipment...yet.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by OsnolaKinnard

[LeoLeo99]

6 minutes ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Y'all are talking about SL club 'theory'.  I have been playing Edel SLS01's for 2 years.

 

I am a taller golfer 6'4" tall.  I am muscular fatty athletic guy at 290 pounds.  My hands look like miniature Christmas hams with sausages for fingers.  I was the 'fat kid' that was strong, could run, catch and throw.

 

I have never...EVER felt comfortable with a club less than a 7 iron.  I always felt all hunched over and uncomfortable and despite playing VL Irons at +1" long, I never liked hitting an 8-LW.  I just felt like I was playing with a child's club.  I was fitted...and "they" always said I was a +1" 3* upright player...for any iron I used.

 

I saw the SL irons and thought, Hmmm that's neat.  I had a friend build me an old Ram Tour Grind PW at 38" long.  It was COMICAL, but it was also love at first swing.  I used to hit my VL PW about 115-120 yards.  I hit this 38" sledgehammer feeling PW the same distance, but the trajectory was TOWERING and the spin was incredible.  Next up, a friend built me a SL Pinhawk 6 iron and PW at 37.5" long and 2* upright.  Again, it was love at first swing.  I LOVED the PW, and found that I hit better quality shots, hit better chips and pitches and half swings and knockdowns. It was AWESOME.

 

I went to my local Edwin Watts to see about getting fitted for a set of Cobra Forged One Length irons.  I was excited and they immediately tried talking me out of them and away from SL.  The reason being...none of them knew a darn thing about them.

 

I then contacted Edel Golf and had a fitting setup in Corpus Christi.  The sales rep met me at a local driving range, and put me through their fitting process.  I hit a TON of combinations.  I hit everything from 3 iron-SS with 85, 95, 115 gram shafts in regular stiff, x still, in various launch profiles, etc.  My best combination for dispersion, feel, and trajectory were a 274 gram head, 2* upright, and a 37.5" length.  That being said, I did NOT care for the 3 and 4 iron at that short length, so I did not purchase them.  I ended up buying 5-GW.

 

When I was in Iowa, I carried a 6.5 index using VL irons, etc.   I played and worked at the game constantly, if there was no snow, I was playing.  When I moved back down south, I started fishing again, and believe, me, coastal saltwater fishing vs golf, fishing wins every day and twice on Sunday.  I stopped playing for 10 years and got really good at fishing.  5 year ago, my solitary kidney started acting up, and I was told to give up fishing as it was a huge infection risk, so I started playing golf again.  Man...I STUNK.  I went from posting scores in the 72-82 range to posting scores like 95-105.  I hit the ball all over the place and could not get up and down to save my life.  I started working at my game, and became a student of Kirk Junge on YouTube.  I started researching gear, and the SL was the way to go for me.  

 

in 2019, I set a goal to break 80 consistently.  I started playing and practicing in March, when I received my new irons from Edel.  In September, I was scheduled for cancer surgery on 9/11/2019 with my kidney.  On my last round with my wife, I posted a 79 with a birdie on 18 to finish.  Due to a pretty big surgery, I was unable to swing a club for 12 weeks.  This past year, I stared my comeback and I broke 80 4 times and posted many scores in the 80-83 range.  I have no idea what my handicap is now.  I had another bout with cancer this year, almost 12 months to the day, and just had surgery 2 weeks ago to remove it. I am now 3 weeks from being able to swing a club.  I expect that once I start, I will come back even more quickly.

 

Here is my point.  I have a swing that is incredibly simple, repeatable, and consistent.  I am a firm believer in the single plane swing.  I am a firm believer in SL Irons for taller golfers.  The OEM's discuss better contact in the long irons...the truth is, the longer short irons are a benefit to taller golfers.  I mentioned my size earlier because I have absolutely ZERO in common with any professional golfer physically.  If you want to have some NFL Defensive Linemen play the game...that's pretty much me.  I have been able to come back QUICKLY because of how simple things are for me.  Build a swing that works for you, commit to learning to keep the driver in play and get up and down well.  Once you are doing those things, build your clubs around YOUR game.

 

I really cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you about my 'goof journey', and some of the good things I did and some of the poorer decisions I made and hopefully I can help you on your journey. I will repeat this...check out Kirk Junge 'set up for. impact' videos, and don't focus so munch on equipment...yet.

 

 

Hope you get well soon and are back on the course and back to your peak soon.  Have you seen Kyle Williams play?  He's a big man and plays very well.  6'1"   300lbs.  D tackle for the Bills.  

 

To the OP, I think you're better off sticking with traditional clubs and working on your swing.  At 34 and fairly athletic, you'll reach your potential faster with traditional or maybe SL clubs.  You might improve quicker in the short term with those launchers but I don't see you breaking 85 with them if you don't learn how to shallow the club and hit down on irons.  

[pinestreetgolf]

1 hour ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Y'all are talking about SL club 'theory'.  I have been playing Edel SLS01's for 2 years.

 

I am a taller golfer 6'4" tall.  I am muscular fatty athletic guy at 290 pounds.  My hands look like miniature Christmas hams with sausages for fingers.  I was the 'fat kid' that was strong, could run, catch and throw.

 

I have never...EVER felt comfortable with a club less than a 7 iron.  I always felt all hunched over and uncomfortable and despite playing VL Irons at +1" long, I never liked hitting an 8-LW.  I just felt like I was playing with a child's club.  I was fitted...and "they" always said I was a +1" 3* upright player...for any iron I used.

 

I saw the SL irons and thought, Hmmm that's neat.  I had a friend build me an old Ram Tour Grind PW at 38" long.  It was COMICAL, but it was also love at first swing.  I used to hit my VL PW about 115-120 yards.  I hit this 38" sledgehammer feeling PW the same distance, but the trajectory was TOWERING and the spin was incredible.  Next up, a friend built me a SL Pinhawk 6 iron and PW at 37.5" long and 2* upright.  Again, it was love at first swing.  I LOVED the PW, and found that I hit better quality shots, hit better chips and pitches and half swings and knockdowns. It was AWESOME.

 

I went to my local Edwin Watts to see about getting fitted for a set of Cobra Forged One Length irons.  I was excited and they immediately tried talking me out of them and away from SL.  The reason being...none of them knew a darn thing about them. They weren't ugly about it or anything but they were stealing me away from them.

 

I then contacted Edel Golf and had a fitting setup in Corpus Christi.  The sales rep met me at a local driving range, and put me through their fitting process.  I hit a TON of combinations.  I hit everything from 3 iron-SW with 85, 95, 115 gram shafts in regular stiff, x still, in various launch profiles, etc.  My best combination for dispersion, feel, and trajectory were a 274 gram head, 2* upright, and a 37.5" length.  That being said, I did NOT care for the 3 and 4 iron at that short length, so I did not purchase them.  I ended up buying 5-GW.

 

When I was in Iowa, I carried a 6.5 index using VL irons, etc.   I played and worked at the game constantly, if there was no snow, I was playing.  When I moved back down south, I started fishing again, and believe, me, coastal saltwater fishing vs golf, fishing wins every day and twice on Sunday.  I stopped playing for 10 years and got really good at fishing.  5 year ago, my solitary kidney started acting up, and I was told to give up fishing as it was a huge infection risk, so I started playing golf again.  Man...I STUNK.  I went from posting scores in the 72-82 range to posting scores like 95-105.  I hit the ball all over the place and could not get up and down to save my life.  I started working at my game, and became a student of Kirk Junge on YouTube.  I started researching gear, and the SL was the way to go for me.  

 

in 2019, I set a goal to break 80 consistently.  I started playing and practicing in March, when I received my new irons from Edel.  In September, I was scheduled for cancer surgery on 9/11/2019 with my kidney.  On my last round with my wife, I posted a 79 with a birdie on 18 to finish.  Due to a pretty big surgery, I was unable to swing a club for 12 weeks.  This past year, I stared my comeback and I broke 80 4 times and posted many scores in the 80-83 range.  I have no idea what my handicap is now.  I had another bout with cancer this year, almost 12 months to the day, and just had surgery 2 weeks ago to remove it. I am now 3 weeks from being able to swing a club.  I expect that once I start, I will come back even more quickly.

 

Here is my point.  I have a swing that is incredibly simple, repeatable, and consistent.  I am a firm believer in the single plane swing.  I am a firm believer in SL Irons for taller golfers.  The OEM's discuss better contact in the long irons...the truth is, the longer short irons are a benefit to taller golfers.  I mentioned my size earlier because I have absolutely ZERO in common with any professional golfer physically.  If you want to have some NFL Defensive Linemen play the game...that's pretty much me.  I have been able to come back QUICKLY because of how simple things are for me.  Build a swing that works for you, commit to learning to keep the driver in play and get up and down well.  Once you are doing those things, build your clubs around YOUR game.

 

I really cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you about my 'goof journey', and some of the good things I did and some of the poorer decisions I made and hopefully I can help you on your journey. I will repeat this...check out Kirk Junge 'set up for. impact' videos, and don't focus so munch on equipment...yet.

 

 

1.  Best wishes on your fight with cancer and illness.

 

2. You said it yourself - "I started playing and practicing in March, when I got my SL irons".  Its not the irons.  You started playing and practicing when you got them.  You have no control group. They were likely completely irrelevant.  If you had started playing and practicing with VL you probably do the exact same thing.  So, per your own post, you started doing two things at the same time in March -

 

First, you played and practiced.

Second, you got SL irons.

 

One of those two accounts for the vast majority of your improvement.  I know where my money is.

 

Look, SL irons are fine.  And the fact that Bryson plays them and happens to have a one-plane swing leads everyone to this idea that one plane = single length.  One plane refers to the fact that there is only one plane arm in the swing (the right) which lines up with the shaft both at impact and in the follow-through.  Two plane swings refer to the fact that you have two plane arms - the left at impact, the right at halfway through.  It has nothing to do with single length irons.  On the way down, you have a hole between your arms.  One planers close it going inside, maintaing one plane arm (the right) and two-planers close that hole going outside, switching plane arms at imapact (left, then right).  Single length and one plane have absolutely nothing to do with each other, other than the fact that the most popular one plane golfer also plays SL.  You may as well say Cobra is good for a one plane swing because Bryson hits that too.

[pinestreetgolf]

Why can't we edit?  This is really weird.  Although the forum is finally usable again, so I guess can't complain too much.

 

One-plane doesn't mean you don't leave the shaft plane established at address.  You couldn't hit the ball anywhere.  This is why the classic Ben Hogan line - "I wish I had three right arms" - is so often quoted.  He's the ultimate one-plane swinger, and one-plane means you maintain one arm that paralells the shaft (not two).  

 

Now, please explain what you mean because I'd love to learn more, but i don't see the connection between having one plane arm versus two plane arms and SL.

[cardoustie]

Any new golfer I would suggest

 

- weak lofted driver

- 4w

- 7w

- 4h and 5h

- 6i to Gw - 57* sw 

 

 

 

[cardoustie]

1 hour ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Y'all are talking about SL club 'theory'.  I have been playing Edel SLS01's for 2 years.

 

I am a taller golfer 6'4" tall.  I am muscular fatty athletic guy at 290 pounds.  My hands look like miniature Christmas hams with sausages for fingers.  I was the 'fat kid' that was strong, could run, catch and throw.

 

I have never...EVER felt comfortable with a club less than a 7 iron.  I always felt all hunched over and uncomfortable and despite playing VL Irons at +1" long, I never liked hitting an 8-LW.  I just felt like I was playing with a child's club.  I was fitted...and "they" always said I was a +1" 3* upright player...for any iron I used.

 

I saw the SL irons and thought, Hmmm that's neat.  I had a friend build me an old Ram Tour Grind PW at 38" long.  It was COMICAL, but it was also love at first swing.  I used to hit my VL PW about 115-120 yards.  I hit this 38" sledgehammer feeling PW the same distance, but the trajectory was TOWERING and the spin was incredible.  Next up, a friend built me a SL Pinhawk 6 iron and PW at 37.5" long and 2* upright.  Again, it was love at first swing.  I LOVED the PW, and found that I hit better quality shots, hit better chips and pitches and half swings and knockdowns. It was AWESOME.

 

I went to my local Edwin Watts to see about getting fitted for a set of Cobra Forged One Length irons.  I was excited and they immediately tried talking me out of them and away from SL.  The reason being...none of them knew a darn thing about them. They weren't ugly about it or anything but they were stealing me away from them.

 

I then contacted Edel Golf and had a fitting setup in Corpus Christi.  The sales rep met me at a local driving range, and put me through their fitting process.  I hit a TON of combinations.  I hit everything from 3 iron-SW with 85, 95, 115 gram shafts in regular stiff, x still, in various launch profiles, etc.  My best combination for dispersion, feel, and trajectory were a 274 gram head, 2* upright, and a 37.5" length.  That being said, I did NOT care for the 3 and 4 iron at that short length, so I did not purchase them.  I ended up buying 5-GW.

 

When I was in Iowa, I carried a 6.5 index using VL irons, etc.   I played and worked at the game constantly, if there was no snow, I was playing.  When I moved back down south, I started fishing again, and believe, me, coastal saltwater fishing vs golf, fishing wins every day and twice on Sunday.  I stopped playing for 10 years and got really good at fishing.  5 year ago, my solitary kidney started acting up, and I was told to give up fishing as it was a huge infection risk, so I started playing golf again.  Man...I STUNK.  I went from posting scores in the 72-82 range to posting scores like 95-105.  I hit the ball all over the place and could not get up and down to save my life.  I started working at my game, and became a student of Kirk Junge on YouTube.  I started researching gear, and the SL was the way to go for me.  

 

in 2019, I set a goal to break 80 consistently.  I started playing and practicing in March, when I received my new irons from Edel.  In September, I was scheduled for cancer surgery on 9/11/2019 with my kidney.  On my last round with my wife, I posted a 79 with a birdie on 18 to finish.  Due to a pretty big surgery, I was unable to swing a club for 12 weeks.  This past year, I stared my comeback and I broke 80 4 times and posted many scores in the 80-83 range.  I have no idea what my handicap is now.  I had another bout with cancer this year, almost 12 months to the day, and just had surgery 2 weeks ago to remove it. I am now 3 weeks from being able to swing a club.  I expect that once I start, I will come back even more quickly.

 

Here is my point.  I have a swing that is incredibly simple, repeatable, and consistent.  I am a firm believer in the single plane swing.  I am a firm believer in SL Irons for taller golfers.  The OEM's discuss better contact in the long irons...the truth is, the longer short irons are a benefit to taller golfers.  I mentioned my size earlier because I have absolutely ZERO in common with any professional golfer physically.  If you want to have some NFL Defensive Linemen play the game...that's pretty much me.  I have been able to come back QUICKLY because of how simple things are for me.  Build a swing that works for you, commit to learning to keep the driver in play and get up and down well.  Once you are doing those things, build your clubs around YOUR game.

 

I really cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you about my 'goof journey', and some of the good things I did and some of the poorer decisions I made and hopefully I can help you on your journey. I will repeat this...check out Kirk Junge 'set up for. impact' videos, and don't focus so munch on equipment...yet.

 

Great read

 

my short irons got MILES better when I went longer as well ... did a post on it 

 

also a bigger athletic guy
 

[SugarLandGolfer]

1 hour ago, pinestreetgolf said:

One-plane doesn't mean you don't leave the shaft plane established at address.  You couldn't hit the ball anywhere.  This is why the classic Ben Hogan line - "I wish I had three right arms" - is so often quoted.  He's the ultimate one-plane swinger, and one-plane means you maintain one arm that paralells the shaft (not two).  

 

Now, please explain what you mean because I'd love to learn more, but i don't see the connection between having one plane arm versus two plane arms and SL.

I may be using the wrong terminology, but this is what I’m referencing. With variable length clubs, you have to stand a different distance from the ball. The creates a slightly different plane for every club. Single length clubs remove some of that challenge during setup. While there are differences while on the course, for the most part you have one swing you have to learn.
 

My challenge is that I hit the ball fat more often than I would like. I’m doing drills to help me get more consistent multiple times per week while practicing and playing, but it’s still a problem.

 

1) To the original question, clubs like the t rail and launchers are designed to help with that specific problem.  While I continue to work on my problem, they might make the game easier.

2) I also see single length as a potential solution because I can practice a single length swing and get good at that one swing that then applies to all clubs. 
 

Practice is still the key to getting bette at golf, and I have made significant strides using my 8 year old non fitted clubs. I’m just curious if anyone else has gone through a similar debate to make the game a little more fun while improving. 
 

 

 

 

 

[OsnolaKinnard]

8 hours ago, pinestreetgolf said:

Why can't we edit?  This is really weird.  Although the forum is finally usable again, so I guess can't complain too much.

 

One-plane doesn't mean you don't leave the shaft plane established at address.  You couldn't hit the ball anywhere.  This is why the classic Ben Hogan line - "I wish I had three right arms" - is so often quoted.  He's the ultimate one-plane swinger, and one-plane means you maintain one arm that paralells the shaft (not two).  

 

Now, please explain what you mean because I'd love to learn more, but i don't see the connection between having one plane arm versus two plane arms and SL.

I set up, with my club, hands,,and body in the “impact position”.  I turn my shoulder back, fold my right arm, then turn my hips, then shoulder and unfold my right arm and return everything the way I started, and am rewarded with very straight shots.

 

my swing is probably the least complicated thing you will see...and it works for me.

 

Check out this analysis of Sandra Carlborg, women’s LD competitor.  This is pretty much who I try to model my swing after.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by OsnolaKinnard

[OsnolaKinnard]

I am far more comfortable now standing over a 7-LW than I have ever been.

 

comfort leads to relaxed golf, leads to better quality shots, leads to more enjoyment of the game.
 

it works for me.

 

 

[Tax77]

To many individual variables to answer. At my height with joint health issues, I stand upright and swing a club at 36.75 way faster with much better contact than I can with anything longer. I play F9 5 6 7 at 36.75 and they will be with me for the rest of my life. Some tall guys need to stand up with wedges, some short guys need to be looking down at long irons. 

[games]

@OsnolaKinnardGlad to hear you're on the mend, and playing well, Hax!

 

I can see why Edel is the gold standard.  I own an SLS set I bought off the bay.  It is clear Edel looks at each club as a "unit" (head/shaft combo) and each set as a "system" where each unit has to "graduate" from one to the next.  There is so much technology in the Paderson shafts and sets they use.   I'm reconsidering SL, and if I do, it will be a custom set of Edels.

[Fairway14]

18 hours ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

 With variable length clubs, you have to stand a different distance from the ball. The creates a slightly different plane for every club. Single length clubs remove some of that challenge during setup. While there are differences while on the course, for the most part you have one swing you have to learn.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes and no. Specifically, using traditional fundamental technique the player's distance from the butt end of the club is the same for all club's wedge thru driver.

And the swing technique is the same for all clubs. 

Yes, due to different length shafts the player's swing plane may appear different, but the player may address the ball the same, use the exact same swing technique etc... so there is no inherent problem with a traditional set of clubs.

[SugarLandGolfer]

43 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Yes and no. Specifically, using traditional fundamental technique the player's distance from the butt end of the club is the same for all club's wedge thru driver.

And the swing technique is the same for all clubs. 

Yes, due to different length shafts the player's swing plane may appear different, but the player may address the ball the same, use the exact same swing technique etc... so there is no inherent problem with a traditional set of clubs.

But it’s the same concept. You come in steeper with a wedge than a long iron because you are closer to the ball. As you get further from the ball, the swing plane flattens. Single length removes that variable (on flat ground) entirely.

[scooterhd2]

I played full single length for 6 months or so, and then a a mixed set with single length long irons for another 3 months or so, before switching back to a full variable length set. Mostly for fun, and out of tinkering curiosity, I have recently put the single length set back in the bag. I'd like to thing I'm not fully biased one way or another. I've shot really good scores and bad scores with both methods. I see the merits to both sets. I've tried to combine them to get the best of both worlds. They both have flaws. 

 

No doubt, that for me, my setup is much more comfortable with the single length set. There is no question about how far to spread the feet, where to place the ball in the stance, how far to be away from the ball. Unless you have a really awkward lie, there is little thought to low point control and how to steepen or shallow the shaft. I hit less balls fat or thin. I do not have a single plane swing, but the backswing for every club feels the same, at the same tempo. I think this would be a great way to learn the game. 

 

Most of the issues about single length have been well documented. Some of them can easily be mitigated, and others are difficult to get around. If I was playing a tournament tomorrow, I'd play my variable length set as it is easier to hit golf shots. To control the flight, to control the spin. I feel like I can be more aggressive at times. But those are learned skills. If you are just wanting to have fun and learn how to make contact with the ball and hit it straight, single length is not a bad place to start. Just understand some of the well documented flaws and plan accordingly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SugarLandGolfer]

19 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

I played full single length for 6 months or so, and then a a mixed set with single length long irons for another 3 months or so, before switching back to a full variable length set. Mostly for fun, and out of tinkering curiosity, I have recently put the single length set back in the bag. I'd like to thing I'm not fully biased one way or another. I've shot really good scores and bad scores with both methods. I see the merits to both sets. I've tried to combine them to get the best of both worlds. They both have flaws. 

 

No doubt, that for me, my setup is much more comfortable with the single length set. There is no question about how far to spread the feet, where to place the ball in the stance, how far to be away from the ball. Unless you have a really awkward lie, there is little thought to low point control and how to steepen or shallow the shaft. I hit less balls fat or thin. I do not have a single plane swing, but the backswing for every club feels the same, at the same tempo. I think this would be a great way to learn the game. 

 

Most of the issues about single length have been well documented. Some of them can easily be mitigated, and others are difficult to get around. If I was playing a tournament tomorrow, I'd play my variable length set as it is easier to hit golf shots. To control the flight, to control the spin. I feel like I can be more aggressive at times. But those are learned skills. If you are just wanting to have fun and learn how to make contact with the ball and hit it straight, single length is not a bad place to start. Just understand some of the well documented flaws and plan accordingly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I think this is good feedback. I am definitely on the “make golf easier” side of the equipment discussion. Yes, some irons may feel more workable or easier to draw/fade (some articles debate that, but different discussion), but I’m ok just hitting the ball as straight and as far as I can.
 

I think that’s why I loved hitting the launcher hb 8 iron. It really did go like a rocket long and straight. Stock shaft kept the spin to high and it floated on me, but after trying the steel fiber, I was able to get the spin down. I had never felt point and shoot like that. 5 in a row just long, tall and perfectly straight. But an 8 iron is easy. As it gets longer, not so sure.

 

That’s why the SL irons intrigue me so much. One setup. Get good at that and golf suddenly seems easier. Maybe Cobra will come out with a SL t rail and my life with be easier. I want to try the forged tec irons because they’re also hollow body, but don’t think they will have the same forgiveness as a larger iron.

Edited September 28, 2020 by SugarLandGolfer

[boggyman]

I’ve tinkered in the past, 3 different times with SL. I like the concept, considering going back. I like long irons and SL makes it easier, for myself, to hit them. Holding out in hopes Cobra would release a set of the T Rails in OL, that would be a fun set. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by boggyman

[SugarLandGolfer]

8 minutes ago, boggyman said:

I’ve tinkered in the past, 3 different times with SL. I like the concept, considering going back. I like long irons and SL makes it easier, for myself, to hit them. Holding out in hopes Cobra would release a set of the T Rails in OL, that would be a fun set. 

I think that could be the final sweet spot for me, and given that they have both SL and hybrid irons in their repertoire, it makes perfect sense for them to make them. The larger heads may also make it easier to get the long irons up (one of the main complaints of SL). I’d almost certainly be sold on them.

[scooterhd2]

8 minutes ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

Thanks. I think this is good feedback. I am definitely on the “make golf easier” side of the equipment discussion. Yes, some irons may feel more workable or easier to draw/fade (some articles debate that, but different discussion), but I’m ok just hitting the ball as straight and as far as I can.
 

I think that’s why I loved hitting the launcher hb 8 iron. It really did go like a rocket long and straight. Stock shaft kept the spin to high and it floated on me, but after trying the steel fiber, I was able to get the spin down. I had never felt point and shoot like that. 5 in a row just long, tall and perfectly straight. But an 8 iron is easy. As it gets longer, not so sure.

 

That’s why the SL irons intrigue me so much. One setup. Get good at that and golf suddenly seems easier. Maybe Cobra will come out with a SL t rail and my life with be easier.

 

Did you hit the single length 8 iron as well. Speedzone? Those look pretty easy to launch to me.

 

If you wanted a cheaper experiment, you could look for a used set of Adams hybrid irons. V3 and A12OS come to mind. Ought to be able to find those at a decent price. 

[SugarLandGolfer]

1 hour ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

Did you hit the single length 8 iron as well. Speedzone? Those look pretty easy to launch to me.

 

If you wanted a cheaper experiment, you could look for a used set of Adams hybrid irons. V3 and A12OS come to mind. Ought to be able to find those at a decent price. 

Not yet. The plan is to get a fitting over the winter to try both. 

[Fairway14]

6 hours ago, SugarLandGolfer said:

But it’s the same concept. You come in steeper with a wedge than a long iron because you are closer to the ball. As you get further from the ball, the swing plane flattens. Single length removes that variable (on flat ground) entirely.

 

Yes, but the factors you seem focused on are nothing the player ever has to think about. Traditional iron sets have a range of shaft lengths and lie angles to allow a player to  use the same address and swing technique for all clubs within the bag.

[pinestreetgolf]

On 9/27/2020 at 7:51 PM, OsnolaKinnard said:

I set up, with my club, hands,,and body in the “impact position”.  I turn my shoulder back, fold my right arm, then turn my hips, then shoulder and unfold my right arm and return everything the way I started, and am rewarded with very straight shots.

 

my swing is probably the least complicated thing you will see...and it works for me.

 

Check out this analysis of Sandra Carlborg, women’s LD competitor.  This is pretty much who I try to model my swing after.

 

 

 

This is a one-plane swing because the right arm is controlling the shaft for the entire swing.  It has nothing to do with complexity.  There are simple, gorgeous two-plane swings (for example Jimmy Walker, who has a swing exactly as you describe, he just uses his left arm before impact and his right arm after impact).  "One-plane" doesn't mean "simple and more consistent" that is marketing hype so you will join internet swing academies.  One-plane means the club has one plane arm throughout the swing.  At 1:49 (her impact position) you can see her right arm is controlling the shaft and it is right on her initial shaft plane line.  However, if she were at two-planer, she'd be in *exactly* the same place except she'd be on the line formed by the shaft and her shoulders instead of the shaft and her belt.

 

Both one- and two-plane swings can be extremely simple and both do exactly what you've said.  The difference is that one swings the right arm and one swings the left arm pre-impact and the right arm post-impact.  One uses the shaft plane line formed by hosel to belt and one by hosel to shoulders.  Other than that they are the same.

[pinestreetgolf]

On 9/27/2020 at 1:39 PM, SugarLandGolfer said:

I may be using the wrong terminology, but this is what I’m referencing. With variable length clubs, you have to stand a different distance from the ball. The creates a slightly different plane for every club. Single length clubs remove some of that challenge during setup. While there are differences while on the course, for the most part you have one swing you have to learn.
 

My challenge is that I hit the ball fat more often than I would like. I’m doing drills to help me get more consistent multiple times per week while practicing and playing, but it’s still a problem.

 

1) To the original question, clubs like the t rail and launchers are designed to help with that specific problem.  While I continue to work on my problem, they might make the game easier.

2) I also see single length as a potential solution because I can practice a single length swing and get good at that one swing that then applies to all clubs. 
 

Practice is still the key to getting bette at golf, and I have made significant strides using my 8 year old non fitted clubs. I’m just curious if anyone else has gone through a similar debate to make the game a little more fun while improving. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely wish you the best for sure, but that has nothing to do with a one or two plane swing.  In a one plane swing (McIlroy) if you pause halfway down his downswing the shaft is tracking his right arm (its tucked right next to it).  Sergio too.  One planers track the shaft with their right arm all the way back down and through - the shaft is never following the right arm.  Two-planers simply have a steeper plane because they do the exact same thing, except with the left arm.  The left arm tracks the shaft back and down (Jason Day, Jimmy Walker, Mickelson, Justin Thomas) but the arms cross at impact at the right arm takes over the shaft in the following through.  In short, one planers don't square the face at all (because they never rotate the face in the backswing, they don't have to square it) and two-planers square the face by rolling their forearms.  But both are identical to what you want, just different.  Both have planes.  One (one-planer) tracks the line from the hosel to the hands and the other (two-planer) the line from the hosel to the shoulders.  SL would be identically helpful to both.  Both are still swinging on arcs.  One plays with the right arm and the other the left arm (then right arm in the follow-through).