Most forgiving wedges?

[grillnugz]

5 hours ago, AussieGolfNut said:

Just bought the CBX2 wedges 46, 50 and 54 degrees. Absolutely brilliant. The 46 Pitching wedge is fantastic. I chip with it everywhere. Never been able to chip with a lofted club before. The 54 is brilliant out of the sand and those delicate shots around the green 

 

Although, I don't own these and have only hit the CBX2 into a monitor (full and half shots) I do agree they are nice wedges. Similar in performance to tour wedge offerings. I first got interested in these when I saw some pics from the Korn Ferry tour this year. A guy was bagging i25s and CBX2 wedges. Made me question my current set up so I went out and tried. 

 

Another consideration is full face grooves. If you're hitting all over the face chipping or full shots why not have more grooved area. For instance, I have a tendency on open face and flop shots to hit off the toe, I currently play a full face 60* PM grind Callaway. Does it make a difference, not sure as these shots use trajectory to stop the ball but I love the concept.

 

 

 

[NDIrish423]

The Ping Glide series are hard to beat.  I've had the Glide, Glide 2.0 and now the Glide 2.0 Stealth and found them equally forgiving.  I have not tried the 3.0 yet.

Edited September 29, 2020 by uhs82

[Swashbuckler]

How can someone truly measure if a wedge is more forgiving than another wedge? Genuinely curious.

[ChipNRun]

On 9/27/2020 at 5:03 AM, simonizer said:

ZipCore mid-bounce that I recently tested were great feeling and easy to hit. 

A veteran golfer who works part-time at a local shop has refitted with latest ZipCore. Says his consistency has increased over well used Callaways. (don't know how much new groove help...)

[nsxguy]

19 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Forgiveness against what is the question?
Thin shots? Fat shorts, Pulls? Hooks? Ballooning full shots? Distance dispersion? Direction?

Whats issues do we wants to solve?

Pointing at a specific head without a clue about what issues there was with the SM8 you try to solve cant be done without knowing more about what the issue really is. There is also a need for info about what shaft that was used, what shaft you play in irons, what play lengths, SW, total wgt and lie angles was used.

For wedges, sole properties or lie angle is often where issues comes from, NOT "the head" itself.
For lofts 40* and higher we dont get much help from perimeter weighting if impact issues is the actual problem, and impact issues is either, length, weight, balance or swing related, not head related, so we dont get "improved impact" by using a cavity-back head. 

Back to the question, whats the issue you try to solve here?

 

This is an incredible coincidence. I was going to start a thread about just this.

 

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the vast majority of wedges are muscle backs whereas most golfers play some sort of GI/cavity back irons. The only CB wedges until this year I can remember were Clevelands. Now Ping has come out with a CB wedge as has Callaway.

 

I'm pretty sure the forgiveness question was about distance, as most forgiveness questions are. Poor dispersion is pretty easily understood by most of us as if the club isn't facing where we want it to the ball isn't going where we want it to. A bit less understood would be the lie angle being off but most serious players regardless of handicap at least understand about lie angles.

 

I was wondering why it was (that we don't get much help from CB wedges),,,,,,, as I've noticed, over a period of time, that similar mishits with a wedge got closer to full distance than a similar mishit with an iron.

 

Why IS that ?

[Howard_Jones]

44 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

This is an incredible coincidence. I was going to start a thread about just this.

 

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the vast majority of wedges are muscle backs whereas most golfers play some sort of GI/cavity back irons. The only CB wedges until this year I can remember were Clevelands. Now Ping has come out with a CB wedge as has Callaway.

 

I'm pretty sure the forgiveness question was about distance, as most forgiveness questions are. Poor dispersion is pretty easily understood by most of us as if the club isn't facing where we want it to the ball isn't going where we want it to. A bit less understood would be the lie angle being off but most serious players regardless of handicap at least understand about lie angles.

 

I was wondering why it was (that we don't get much help from CB wedges),,,,,,, as I've noticed, over a period of time, that similar mishits with a wedge got closer to full distance than a similar mishit with an iron.

 

Why IS that ?

You already know why if you think about it......
 What happens with a driver shot if spin levels gets to low and the balls spin axis tilt to much?
Right you have a knuckle ball, ball flight becomes crazy because the flight is very sensitive when spin levels is too low.- The other way, lofts above 40 always have so much spin, the spix axis is no longer a critical parameter for ball flight, you dont see a knuckle ball flight from a wedge ever for that reason. 

So perimeter weighting who really tries to "correct or reduce the tilt on the spin axis" is no longer needed (off center hits, and reduction of head twisting due to higher MOI), and this forces (perimeter weighting and MOI) cant do much when the force behind spin gets as high as it does on clubs with a loft of 40* or higher. (more of the impact forces is converted to spin vs ball speed, we see that as PTR value or smash factor it drops with higher loft since more of the energy is used for spin and launch)

If any improvement is possible, it will be as more stable direction on off center hits (less head twist who either open or close face angle during impact), but the difference will be minimal if its possible to measure any difference at all.

Correct fitting is what works, one size fits all or cavity back want solve variable impact issue, if it works we actually cover up the problem instead of facing it and solving it. We all vary some and does mistake, but the way to reduce them is by fitting and training, so you want ever see a cavity back wedge in my bag, why would i need that?

The right or wrong shaft choice will for sure be of way larger influence for how that wedge work for the player than talking Cavity vs Blade design, and the shaft is only a part of a full fitting.

[Bunkersarebigcups]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

This is an incredible coincidence. I was going to start a thread about just this.

 

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the vast majority of wedges are muscle backs whereas most golfers play some sort of GI/cavity back irons. The only CB wedges until this year I can remember were Clevelands. Now Ping has come out with a CB wedge as has Callaway.

 

I'm pretty sure the forgiveness question was about distance, as most forgiveness questions are. Poor dispersion is pretty easily understood by most of us as if the club isn't facing where we want it to the ball isn't going where we want it to. A bit less understood would be the lie angle being off but most serious players regardless of handicap at least understand about lie angles.

 

I was wondering why it was (that we don't get much help from CB wedges),,,,,,, as I've noticed, over a period of time, that similar mishits with a wedge got closer to full distance than a similar mishit with an iron.

 

Why IS that ?

Couple of answers: First, PING has hat a cavityback wedge for years now, even prior to the Glide series. Not a knock on the rest of your statement just a little correction as PING is one of the more innovative companys but the copycats seem to get all the glory (High Toes, Anser, Cavity backs).

 

Second: Its loft. With more loft (and less clubhead speed), mishits are less pronounced. Its simple physics really, as an iron has to convert all energy into ballspeed so there is a lot of force on strike. With wedges a lot more energy gets lost as the ball can escape upwards. I know this is not the best way to describe it, cant think of a better way =D

[grillnugz]

Also, make sure you consider forgiveness for chipping, bump and runs, and other short game shots. I recently switched from Ping i15s to 919 tours. Ball striking and trajectory control were great with the 919t, but my go to shot around the greens is a pitching wedge bump and run. I found the turf interaction to be sticky with the 919t and found the i15's wider sole and additional bounce performed much better for my technique. I ended up selling the 919t. 

 

 

[Double Dodger]

As Cleveland points out, they have moved the center of gravity toward the toe. Most amateur golfers miss toward the toe. A great (and I mean really great) ball striker will use the toe hit on a blade wedge to take distance off a shot. This will be a killer to the average golfers consistency. What I find after many rounds with the CBX2s is a definite increase in consistency of distance.
I won’t be surprised to see these end up on the PGA tour at some point since consistency is the name of their game. The sole grinds are good for amateurs but I’m sure the big boys would demand some custom work. 

[Albatross2]

Several years ago I bought a set of Eidolon wedges and really liked them. Decided I needed something else and switched. Now I would like to try something similar to the V-sole Eidolon again. What happened to the Eidolon ?  I've tried Ping, Titleist and Mizuno. Have not had a chance to try Cleveland yet. Did Eidolon sell their idea to someone or just disappear?

[gregh729]

On 9/26/2020 at 4:34 PM, animalgolfs said:

G.O.A.T!

 

[Bunkersarebigcups]

18 hours ago, Albatross2 said:

Several years ago I bought a set of Eidolon wedges and really liked them. Decided I needed something else and switched. Now I would like to try something similar to the V-sole Eidolon again. What happened to the Eidolon ?  I've tried Ping, Titleist and Mizuno. Have not had a chance to try Cleveland yet. Did Eidolon sell their idea to someone or just disappear?

Look at Edison Wedges 😉 some People switch manufacturers More frequently than underwear

[fore left]

Played vokeys for years, never got along with Clevelands. Play Mizuno JPX wedges now and am very pleased with them. Much more forgiving and plenty of spin. 

[Mainehacker21]

Just picked up a Cleveland CBX2 58 to use for 100 and in approach shots, sand, and flops around the green. I stuck with my scalpel vokey sm6 54 S grind for chipping around the green close as I prefer the heavier feel for those shots. But man the CBX2 is MONEY for what I am using it for. 

[jons1]

It's a wedge, so I think it depends on your definition of forgiveness given the club we're talking about.

 

In a wedge, when we're talking forgiveness, I think we should be looking at the grind, bounce, how it interacts with the turf, feel of the ball coming off the face, etc.  It's not about how straight it goes, because there's enough backspin that direction is not a part of the consideration.

[bbfifas]

On 10/5/2020 at 9:41 AM, jons1 said:

It's a wedge, so I think it depends on your definition of forgiveness given the club we're talking about.

 

In a wedge, when we're talking forgiveness, I think we should be looking at the grind, bounce, how it interacts with the turf, feel of the ball coming off the face, etc.  It's not about how straight it goes, because there's enough backspin that direction is not a part of the consideration.

Yea good points.  Big one for my forgiveness category is shots high on the face going nowhere.  That is a real problem with the traditional blade styles.  

[animalgolfs]

On 10/5/2020 at 6:31 AM, gregh729 said:

G.O.A.T!

 

These younger guys will never realize just how darn forgiving these were......you can literally hit it anywhere on the face

[nsxguy]

On 9/30/2020 at 2:00 AM, Bunkersarebigcups said:

Couple of answers: First, PING has hat a cavityback wedge for years now, even prior to the Glide series. Not a knock on the rest of your statement just a little correction as PING is one of the more innovative companys but the copycats seem to get all the glory (High Toes, Anser, Cavity backs).

 

Second: Its loft. With more loft (and less clubhead speed), mishits are less pronounced. Its simple physics really, as an iron has to convert all energy into ballspeed so there is a lot of force on strike. With wedges a lot more energy gets lost as the ball can escape upwards. I know this is not the best way to describe it, cant think of a better way =D

 

Yes, of course Ping has had CB wedges "forever". My bad.

 

As for correction/forgiveness, Howard explained it nicely - although I did kinda sorta know it from driver results and other posters around here.

 

Rather than "escape upwards", I would think that just like drivers, if (back)spin rate is low and "sidespin" (off axis) is high the ball dives quickly and curves very erratically, kind of like the ratio of back-to-side spin.

 

But as the backspin rises and the sidespin component stays the same the ball doesn't "dive" and curvature, even at the same off axis strike, is less. So it would seem the "formula" is the ratio of backspin to sidespin.

 

So it sort of makes sense that with the very high backspin rate of a wedge that the off axis component virtually has to be a smaller ratio to backspin and therefore, considerably less curvature.

 

Thanks.

[SwingMan]

On 10/3/2020 at 1:20 PM, grillnugz said:

Also, make sure you consider forgiveness for chipping, bump and runs, and other short game shots. I recently switched from Ping i15s to 919 tours. Ball striking and trajectory control were great with the 919t, but my go to shot around the greens is a pitching wedge bump and run. I found the turf interaction to be sticky with the 919t and found the i15's wider sole and additional bounce performed much better for my technique. I ended up selling the 919t. 

 

 

 

Why not just change the PW?

[ChipNRun]

General advice: Most wedges become more forgiving if you practice with them on occasion!

[kthomas]

I had a hard time being consistent with vokeys, so I eventually swapped to Ping Glide 2.0 stealths and I'm really happy with them. Much more forgiving, and great performers.

[setter02]

Short game lessons.