Is the European Tour basically the Korn Ferry at this point?

[mahonie]

21 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

It’s time they create a world tour, there are only a few events in the Euro tour that even the top tier Euro players care about.  They need to merge with the PGA tour and consolidate events.  You could throw in an event or two from Asia, Australia and South Africa and be done with it.  I’d include the Open from several countries including Canada, Australia, etc.  

 

the Euro tour is only a couple of top tier players from defecting from being the Korn Ferry, minus the Open Championship and the Euro Masters.  

Who would you class as the top European players? Not sure any of those playing permanently on the PGA fall into that category anymore.

 

European Tour already has tournaments from Asia, Australia and South Africa. Throw in the Middle East swing and you see there is already a ‘world tour,’ it’s just that the US is not part of it. Why would they want to dilute that with the PGA Tour? You really need to understand that there is a whole world going on quite nicely outside the US which seems to be getting increasingly insular.

[Caddykev]

On 9/29/2020 at 5:36 PM, smashdn said:

 

Live in Florida and play golf year round with no state income tax.  It has an appeal even for a person already living in the States.  I would imagine, unless you had a deep national pride keeping you there, it is even more appealing from a financial standpoint coming from a European country with typically higher taxes.

Prob the case for most, but I caddie for a guy that Is good friends with Alex Noren and he still claims Swedish residency and pays his taxes there. Said he believes in the system, even though he got crushed that one season he won a couple of times. 

[OrangeGravy]

44 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Who would you class as the top European players? Not sure any of those playing permanently on the PGA fall into that category anymore.

 

European Tour already has tournaments from Asia, Australia and South Africa. Throw in the Middle East swing and you see there is already a ‘world tour,’ it’s just that the US is not part of it. Why would they want to dilute that with the PGA Tour? You really need to understand that there is a whole world going on quite nicely outside the US which seems to be getting increasingly insular.

The top European players don't play on that tour anymore. The ET made that minimum tournament requirement to be eligible for the Ryder Cup for a reason. Where would the ET be without that? If they lifted that requirement, how many of the top ET players that already don't play on that tour much would play anything other than the Open and maybe a couple of other tournaments that have special meaning to them? 

 

Regarding a combined tour, that will never happen do to the geo-political reasons you reference. 

[rafal]

It has its own niche, I'd say I prefer watching them than the K-F bots but let's face it, they all want to play on the PGA Tour and wish they could get in on the gravy train.

[scott_Donald]

I don't know about anyone else but I am waking up early to watch the Scottish Open and not watching the Sanderson tournament at all.

 

Missing Links golf big time!

[dlygrisse]

2 hours ago, mahonie said:

Who would you class as the top European players? Not sure any of those playing permanently on the PGA fall into that category anymore.

 

European Tour already has tournaments from Asia, Australia and South Africa. Throw in the Middle East swing and you see there is already a ‘world tour,’ it’s just that the US is not part of it. Why would they want to dilute that with the PGA Tour? You really need to understand that there is a whole world going on quite nicely outside the US which seems to be getting increasingly insular.

Yeah I get there is a world outside the US.  Thanks for being condescending, it as really helpful.  

[mahonie]

5 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Yeah I get there is a world outside the US.  Thanks for being condescending, it as really helpful.  

And your post wasn’t condescending at all? 

[OrangeGravy]

5 hours ago, scott_Donald said:

I don't know about anyone else but I am waking up early to watch the Scottish Open and not watching the Sanderson tournament at all.

 

Missing Links golf big time!

I'll watch it as well, recorded. A lot of the big name ET guys that play over here made the trip, so the field is what that tour used to look like 10-15 years ago. I rarely watch any of the "regular" PGA Tour events for anything other than background noise or when it's nap time. 

[bscinstnct]

12 hours ago, mahonie said:

Who would you class as the top European players? Not sure any of those playing permanently on the PGA fall into that category anymore.

 

European Tour already has tournaments from Asia, Australia and South Africa. Throw in the Middle East swing and you see there is already a ‘world tour,’ it’s just that the US is not part of it. Why would they want to dilute that with the PGA Tour? You really need to understand that there is a whole world going on quite nicely outside the US which seems to be getting increasingly insular.

 

It’s a world tour but the topic is the quality of the players.

 

And don’t make it seem like the “whole world going on outside the US” is some Kumbaya of unity.

 

The UK is leaving the EU and even within the UK, Scottish support for independence has surged to a majority. Much less any notion that the most powerful nations in every geographic sphere arent dominating their neighbors in a manner that makes the US look like the Buddha. 

 

I’m actually watching the Aberdeen in Scotland and you got Rock, Poulter, and Westwood. It’s raining and cold and that really underlines why the top Euro/Global players all move to sunny Florida as soon as they make it big ; )

[mahonie]

27 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

It’s a world tour but the topic is the quality of the players.

 

And don’t make it seem like the “whole world going on outside the US” is some Kumbaya of unity.

 

The UK is leaving the EU and even within the UK, Scottish support for independence has surged to a majority. Much less any notion that the most powerful nations in every geographic sphere arent dominating their neighbors in a manner that makes the US look like the Buddha. 

 

I’m actually watching the Aberdeen in Scotland and you got Rock, Poulter, and Westwood. It’s raining and cold and that really underlines why the top Euro/Global players all move to sunny Florida as soon as they make it big ; )

 

Why is it assumed that the highest quality players are all on the PGA Tour? You only have to look at Ryder Cup results to know where the real quality sits 😉

 

Having said that, why wouldn’t you want to play in year-round sunshine with the chance of securing your financial future with one  or two good seasons?

 

I wasn’t getting political, I was only making reference to the insular nature of the PGA Tour. Bomb and gouge, or ‘American Golf’ is a bit like American Football in that it’s not really played by anyone anywhere else in the world.

[bscinstnct]

43 minutes ago, mahonie said:

 

Why is it assumed that the highest quality players are all on the PGA Tour? You only have to look at Ryder Cup results to know where the real quality sits 😉

 

Having said that, why wouldn’t you want to play in year-round sunshine with the chance of securing your financial future with one  or two good seasons?

 

I wasn’t getting political, I was only making reference to the insular nature of the PGA Tour. Bomb and gouge, or ‘American Golf’ is a bit like American Football in that it’s not really played by anyone anywhere else in the world.

 

The PGA tour is “insular” in its nature re: bomb and gauge?

 

The UK and Ireland play links because the lords and kings set up courses by the sea and played the ball to roll (as opposed to soar high in the air) because the ball and clubs of the era were wooden sticks and the balls were made of wood as well!

 

Give these guys a 460cc and a ProV1 and they hit drives high and far and be yelling like,

 

”Get in the hole!!”

 

 

[Bubbtubbs]

13 hours ago, scott_Donald said:

I don't know about anyone else but I am waking up early to watch the Scottish Open and not watching the Sanderson tournament at all.

 

Missing Links golf big time!

Links golf is still best golf, IMO. Unfortunately we're not lucky enough to have many of those layouts in Ontario, but I played some nice ones out in Nova Scotia. 

[Bubbtubbs]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

It’s a world tour but the topic is the quality of the players.

 

And don’t make it seem like the “whole world going on outside the US” is some Kumbaya of unity.

 

The UK is leaving the EU and even within the UK, Scottish support for independence has surged to a majority. Much less any notion that the most powerful nations in every geographic sphere arent dominating their neighbors in a manner that makes the US look like the Buddha. 

 

I’m actually watching the Aberdeen in Scotland and you got Rock, Poulter, and Westwood. It’s raining and cold and that really underlines why the top Euro/Global players all move to sunny Florida as soon as they make it big ; )

You'd have to pay me PGA-level money to live in Florida. Hurricanes, humidity, crappy accents, old people everywhere... No thanks.

[dlygrisse]

7 hours ago, mahonie said:

And your post wasn’t condescending at all? 

I was actually saying the entire world should form one tour, so you know, like everyone around the world could join together and compete at golf.  But if you want to be a Euro snob.  

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, Bubbtubbs said:

You'd have to pay me PGA-level money to live in Florida. Hurricanes, humidity, crappy accents, old people everywhere... No thanks.

 

Yeah but you could be doin Pilates and drinking Decaf Macchiatos with JLo ; )

 

 

[mahonie]

4 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

I was actually saying the entire world should form one tour, so you know, like everyone around the world could join together and compete at golf.  But if you want to be a Euro snob.  

Apologies, the way I read it was that because of the poor quality of golf in Europe that a couple of the Euro Tour events along with a few others from around the world should be absorbed into the PGA Tour...my bad if that’s incorrect.

 

The biggest obstacle to a World Tour has in fact been the PGA Tour. This makes an interesting read:

 

https://www.morningread.com/news-opinion/feature/2019-11-14/a-man-and-an-idea-ahead-of-their-time

 

[dlygrisse]

1 hour ago, mahonie said:

 

Why is it assumed that the highest quality players are all on the PGA Tour? You only have to look at Ryder Cup results to know where the real quality sits 😉

 

Having said that, why wouldn’t you want to play in year-round sunshine with the chance of securing your financial future with one  or two good seasons?

 

I wasn’t getting political, I was only making reference to the insular nature of the PGA Tour. Bomb and gouge, or ‘American Golf’ is a bit like American Football in that it’s not really played by anyone anywhere else in the world.

Serious question.  How many tournaments a year, on the Euro tour are played on true links courses?  I’m guessing 3 off the top of my head Including the Open Championship.  The Scottish Open is sometimes but not every time. Irish Open?   
 

yes, American golf, as you call it, is played most everywhere except the coasts where there are links land soil conditions.  Quite frankly it looks like a lot of fun, but there are very few places on earth that these conditions exist.
 

That being said.  A golfer from the United States has won the Open 44 times, more than any other country.  Quite frankly a huge margin if you consider most of the Scottish wins were prior to the 20th century.   
 

 

[mahonie]

39 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

The PGA tour is “insular” in its nature re: bomb and gauge?

 

The UK and Ireland play links because the lords and kings set up courses by the sea and played the ball to roll (as opposed to soar high in the air) because the ball and clubs of the era were wooden sticks and the balls were made of wood as well!

 

Give these guys a 460cc and a ProV1 and they hit drives high and far and be yelling like,

 

”Get in the hole!!”

 

 

Lol

[dlygrisse]

7 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Apologies, the way I read it was that because of the poor quality of golf in Europe that a couple of the Euro Tour events along with a few others from around the world should be absorbed into the PGA Tour...my bad if that’s incorrect.

 

The biggest obstacle to a World Tour has in fact been the PGA Tour. This makes an interesting read:

 

https://www.morningread.com/news-opinion/feature/2019-11-14/a-man-and-an-idea-ahead-of-their-time

 

I’m sure they are, trying to protect their brand and not diminish the smaller events.  The COVID thing may do it for them though.  Quite frankly I’d be fine with losing about 1/2 the regular tournaments if they could get the top players together more often. Plus I’d like to see more courses from around the world.  With bigger crowds.  The one thing I do notice about most Euro events is that the galleries are small.  The US draws many more people, yes they can be a bit rowdy and annoying, but it pays the bills and raises the purses, which attracts the top level talent 

Edited October 3, 2020 by dlygrisse
Spelling

[Bubbtubbs]

16 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yeah but you could be doin Pilates and drinking Decaf Macchiatos with JLo ; )

 

 

Who can argue with compelling logic like this?

[mahonie]

3 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

Serious question.  How many tournaments a year, on the Euro tour are played on true links courses?  I’m guessing 3 off the top of my head Including the Open Championship.  The Scottish Open is sometimes but not every time. Irish Open?   
 

yes, American golf, as you call it, is played most everywhere except the coasts where there are links land soil conditions.  Quite frankly it looks like a lot of fun, but there are very few places on earth that these conditions exist.
 

That being said.  A golfer from the United States has won the Open 44 times, more than any other country.  Quite frankly a huge margin if you consider most of the Scottish wins were prior to the 20th century.   
 

 

Links golf is the most fun and I’m lucky that I’ve played a fair few courses over the years...I really should make the effort to play more.

 

You are correct only a max of 3/4 tournaments a year are played on pure links courses to my knowledge (Dunhill Links is another), but if you think the rest are played on PGA Tour-style courses, you are much mistaken. The Desert swing in the Middle East I’ll grant and a couple of others, but they are the exceptions.

 

The US dominated golf for the last half of the last century and the Euro Tour didn’t really get going until Seve came along...things are a lot more equal these days.

[mahonie]

11 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

I’m sure they are, trying to protect their brand and not diminish the smaller events.  The COVID thing may do it for them though.  Quite frankly I’d be fine with losing about 1/2 the regular tournaments if they could get the top players together more often. Plus I’d like to see more courses from around the world.  With bigger crowds.  The one thing I do notice about most Euro events is that the galleries are small.  The US draws many more people, yes they can be a bit rowdy and annoying, but it pays the bills and raises the purses, which attracts the top level talent 

 

European courses don’t typically have the infrastructure in place to host masses of fans and it’s only really been fully televised for the last 15 years or so since Sky got involved. Watching tournaments from Australia, South Africa, as well as the main Euro events is a massive improvement...I grew up on a diet of the Open, Masters highlights, Pro-celebrity golf and ‘A Round with Alliss.’

 

Professional golf has always been on a smaller more amateurish scale over here. Things are changing though. From the viewing figures I’ve seen from Sky, the audience for Euro Tour events is something like 10x more than for PGA Tour events even though the PGA Tour fits in with evening viewing.

 

The Euro Tour has tried to model a modified version of the PGA Tour with the Rolex series and the Race to Dubai and I think it has done that very well. It’s social media side is fantastic as well.

 

The innovative ways they have come up with to hold events under Covid are to be lauded given the travel restrictions and quarantine requirements. I’m sure they will be fine going forward.

[Titleist99]

9 minutes ago, mahonie said:

 

European courses don’t typically have the infrastructure in place to host masses of fans and it’s only really been fully televised for the last 15 years or so since Sky got involved. Watching tournaments from Australia, South Africa, as well as the main Euro events is a massive improvement...I grew up on a diet of the Open, Masters highlights, Pro-celebrity golf and ‘A Round with Alliss.’

 

Professional golf has always been on a smaller more amateurish scale over here. Things are changing though. From the viewing figures I’ve seen from Sky, the audience for Euro Tour events is something like 10x more than for PGA Tour events even though the PGA Tour fits in with evening viewing.

 

The Euro Tour has tried to model a modified version of the PGA Tour with the Rolex series and the Race to Dubai and I think it has done that very well. It’s social media side is fantastic as well.

 

The innovative ways they have come up with to hold events under Covid are to be lauded given the travel restrictions and quarantine requirements. I’m sure they will be fine going forward.

I'm here to tell you that the European Tour is viewed in the States more than a lot of poster will admit. Early morning golf is fantastic over here and the players are well known despite what the commentators would have you believe. I'm watching links golf right now, the only other time is during The Open Championship. Good to see golf played in the different countries.......Valderrama is one of my favorite courses. Golf was must see TV when Tiger and others were world players....

[chigolfer1]

This is wild, and fun, watching the Scottish Open right now.    So, would they ever stop the tourney for rain, or only if the greens become unplayable due to standing water?

[Titleist99]

1 minute ago, chigolfer1 said:

This is wild, and fun, watching the Scottish Open right now.    So, would they ever stop the tourney for rain, or only if the greens become unplayable due to standing water?

They're doing a good job handling the element....lol! I have a new respect for Poulter...... 

[mahonie]

30 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

This is wild, and fun, watching the Scottish Open right now.    So, would they ever stop the tourney for rain, or only if the greens become unplayable due to standing water?

I was expecting to see the squeegees out to clear the greens!

 

Reminds of a round I played at Princes in Kent (I think Sarazen won an Open there 1929ish?) in similar conditions...pro at the course reckoned it was a 6 club wind. I was hitting stinger 4-irons 110 yards into the wind. It was brutal but fun. Downwind, driver was going over 350 yards.

[scott_Donald]

2 hours ago, mahonie said:

I was expecting to see the squeegees out to clear the greens!

 

Reminds of a round I played at Princes in Kent (I think Sarazen won an Open there 1929ish?) in similar conditions...pro at the course reckoned it was a 6 club wind. I was hitting stinger 4-irons 110 yards into the wind. It was brutal but fun. Downwind, driver was going over 350 yards.

 At my home club we have a 218 yard par 3 raised tee. no wind for me its a 6 iron - last year I didn't reach with a 2 iron or hit as little as a 9 iron, that's links golf.

 

The final competition of the year was called off this morning at my home club due to that weather they played in.

 

I am loving the new Memorial course in Houston(Houston open in 4 weeks) they have run offs and you have so many options around the green, makes me think of links golf!

 

To me the Dunhill has more attraction to watch than Wentworth next week.

[OrangeGravy]

6 hours ago, mahonie said:

 

Why is it assumed that the highest quality players are all on the PGA Tour? You only have to look at Ryder Cup results to know where the real quality sits 😉

 

Having said that, why wouldn’t you want to play in year-round sunshine with the chance of securing your financial future with one  or two good seasons?

 

I wasn’t getting political, I was only making reference to the insular nature of the PGA Tour. Bomb and gouge, or ‘American Golf’ is a bit like American Football in that it’s not really played by anyone anywhere else in the world.

And what tour do those ET Ryder Cup players play the majority of their tournaments? 

[OrangeGravy]

5 hours ago, Bubbtubbs said:

Links golf is still best golf, IMO. Unfortunately we're not lucky enough to have many of those layouts in Ontario, but I played some nice ones out in Nova Scotia. 

I personally prefer Links to watch and play

[mahonie]

21 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

And what tour do those ET Ryder Cup players play the majority of their tournaments? 

Where the sun is shining and the money is easier 😉

 

I’m trying to think of the Euro players who play on the PGA Tour full-time who didn’t graduate through the US collegiate system via scholarships and with the exception of Poulter and McIlroy none are jumping out at me. Any others I’m missing?