How Would YOU "Bryson Proof" a Course??

[Forged4ever]

Hey Gals & Gents, I hope that you all are well👊

 

This is Bryson's take on slowin him down, though what would you do, short of just lengthening the course?

 

My first thought was to set the course up to keep the driver out of his hands, and as far as the rest of the field??

 

Deal with it🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Also, he stated that "distance is now king."

 

Well, distance has ALWAYS been king!!

 

For you youngsters, go back to the archives and read what they said after Jack exploded onto the scene, and Gregory, then Big John and lastly, Tiger🐯 

 

Distance has ALWAYS been King!!

 

Keep the Faith My Friends, we're gonna get through this together😊

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever⛳️

RP

 

https://golf.com/news/bryson-dechambeau-bryson-proof-course/amp/

[caniac6]

I think his driver was a factor at the US Open, but I think he won it with his putter, and his strength to hit the ball out of the rough. I heard Michael Breed come up with an interesting thought. He said to eliminate rough so the shorter hitters would be able to reach greens if they missed the fairway. I anybody can hit quality shots from the rough, and have a putting week like Bryson, they would be pretty hard to beat.

[johnseg]

I think recency bias is the biggest problem and why bad changes are made. Bryson has not really shown the consistency necessary to be an al time great. He may still develop that skill but hasn't to date. It is not unusual for a player to get hot for a week or two. I think what he did at Winged Foot was just that.  Is this the new Bryson? Time will tell but I think if you need to slow players down it is about putting and short game areas.

[Forged4ever]

8 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

I think his driver was a factor at the US Open, but I think he won it with his putter, and his strength to hit the ball out of the rough. I heard Michael Breed come up with an interesting thought. He said to eliminate rough so the shorter hitters would be able to reach greens if they missed the fairway. I anybody can hit quality shots from the rough, and have a putting week like Bryson, they would be pretty hard to beat.

I agree wholeheartedly on makin the putts to win!!

 

This is an aside however I Played a number of rounds with John Daly and needless to say, he was sick off of the tee, and the one day that I'm thinkin of, he was layin wedges in at 6-12' and he made exactly 2 of those. I don't remember out of how many however he had a round of -3(67), and if you'd have seen his drives, and yea, he drove past all the trouble that the mortals hit into, you'd think that he was headed for a low 60's round.

 

He just couldn't make the putts🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Thanks for responding Brotha and I hope that you're havin a nice season👊

 

My Best,

RP

[ScottF]

Golf courses were mostly designed with hazards located to penalize poor shots for golfers who hit it less than 250 - 270, and not golfers who could carry it 330. Just add more hazards like trees, bushes, water and deep bunkers in areas where the big hitters are likely to land on missed shots. If they hit it straight, reward them. If not, make them pay. Penalizing long hitters just for being long is like penalizing short hitters for being able to hit it straight. 

[Hawkeye77]

Richard - thanks for the find!

 

Bryson had some thoughtful comments about the East Lake setup after the U.S. Open in an interview.

 

ME? I wouldn't do anything.  Whatever the normal setup is and if someone can separate themselves from the field let the field figure out how to play better! 

 

Kind of like your point with Daly in a slightly different way, Jack was super long compared to many, but he had a lot of other skills and a unique talent - and he didn't win everything he entered (but, Tiger Woods - Jack had those 19 seconds!).  Bryson isn't winning just on length BUT he isn't going to be a Woods or a Nicklaus, either, so in the long run things should be fine.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[Fairways_and_Greens]

Graduated fairways: the fairway gets narrower as you move closer to the hole. Have more water hazard and waste areas protecting the longer parts of the fairway.

 

Graduated roughs: the rough gets thicker as you move closer to the hole.

 

Shave the rough near the green, shortside the pins, make the runoffs 40 yards away and diabolical. It doesn't matter if you miss by a little or a lot, you get the same short game test. Make the greens as firm as possible.

 

Add width to the fairways, but add trees around the green: don't just use trees to protect the doglegs. Use them to protect the right angle of the approach to the green.

 

All of the above is very expensive,  but I'd love to see it.

[Dr. Block]

26 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

I agree wholeheartedly on makin the putts to win!!

 

This is an aside however I Played a number of rounds with John Daly and needless to say, he was sick off of the tee, and the one day that I'm thinkin of, he was layin wedges in at 6-12' and he made exactly 2 of those. I don't remember out of how many however he had a round of -3(67), and if you'd have seen his drives, and yea, he drove past all the trouble that the mortals hit into, you'd think that he was headed for a low 60's round.

 

He just couldn't make the putts🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Thanks for responding Brotha and I hope that you're havin a nice season👊

 

My Best,

RP

So cool that you got to play with Big John.  He's one of my favorites - and for many reasons past his golf game.

 

Curious though, did you get the impression from his play that for as long as he is, he's surprisingly accurate with the driver?  The times I've spent in his gallery, that's always stood out to me.  He is long, but his swing is very controlled (despite its length) and he hits it straighter then most give him credit for.

 

 

[golfing_penguin]

I'd get them all to play a course local to me near Marbella. Off the tips it's only 6200, so there'd need to be some yardage found, BUT, the greens are similar in size to Hilton Head, about as sloped as Winged Foot, you can't miss the edge of the greens by more than 10 paces on 15 holes nor can you really miss the fairways or it's bye-bye golf ball.

 

In fairness, most any course with no real margin for error will suddenly show up a lot of less-than-premium ball-striking

[gvogel]

I don't think that they should do anything at Augusta.  The fact that there is water in front of some greens, false fronts, and mounding around the greens means that he will have to hit the ball in the correct side of the fairway to attack pins.  If he is successful, so be it.

[Ferguson]

It was his week to win.  Seems like a hip shot reaction to make changes based on the performance of one player in one tourney.   

 

 

They didn't move the Pacific Ocean or Stillwater Cove when Tiger beat the field by 15 in 2000. 

[Shilgy]

8 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Graduated fairways: the fairway gets narrower as you move closer to the hole. Have more water hazard and waste areas protecting the longer parts of the fairway.

 

Graduated roughs: the rough gets thicker as you move closer to the hole.

 

Shave the rough near the green, shortside the pins, make the runoffs 40 yards away and diabolical. It doesn't matter if you miss by a little or a lot, you get the same short game test. Make the greens as firm as possible.

 

Add width to the fairways, but add trees around the green: don't just use trees to protect the doglegs. Use them to protect the right angle of the approach to the green.

 

All of the above is very expensive,  but I'd love to see it.

So basically the real penalties are for being long? Short hitters get a pass?

Trees around the green create shade...shade on the green makes for poor turf conditions. Which is why so many courses are removing, not adding, trees.

[Dr. Block]

2 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

It was his week to win.  Seems like a hip shot reaction to make changes based on the performance of one player in one tourney.   

 

 

They didn't move the Pacific Ocean or Stillwater Cove when Tiger beat the field by 15 in 2000. 

I agree.  Lets see him lay waste to the field a half dozen or so times with the 48" inch driver before we give him the crown.  As far as proofing the course, not sure anything can stop his game when it's at full chat. 

 

That said, I find his brand of golf pretty bland.  Removing the variables like he's done is incredibly intelligent, but those variables also make golf interesting and entertaining.  Some of the suggestions in this thread so far are pretty interesting as well and would make for some fun golf to watch. 

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

Put a sign out front "NO BRYSONS ALLOWED"
That'll show him.  Though, I suppose that could be foiled with a Groucho Marx mask...

[isaacbm]

Well there were Nearly  10 guys who averaged longer off the tee at the U.S. Open then Bryson. I guess the best way to Bryson proof course is to break his putter?

 

He basically lead every shots gained statistic other than driving distance...

Edited October 1, 2020 by isaacbm

[isaacbm]

Everything you do to make a golf course harder for a long hitter makes it harder still for a short hitter.

Bryson wins because he has the most control of his ball. There are 15 guys on tour who can easily swing it harder than him. They just can’t control it as well as he does. Control is still king. He just has a lot of control at high-speed. Which is an incredible talent. Not one that should be penalized.

Edited October 1, 2020 by isaacbm

[bazinky]

Require more forced carries for the shots hit off-line. Rough is not as big of deal when you can run the ball up to the green, especially when you can do it with a short iron.

 

That said, I'm of the opinion that there isn't much you can do to combat a bomber with a hot putter. I only see distance as a problem when the longer guys start winning with crappy short-game play.

[tiderider]

i'd hire 1000 cameramen to stand around and video him and his brand ... 

[Ferguson]

 

Something that troubles me about Bryson, and this is pure speculation (believe it or not).

 

 

He seems like a guy that would say, 35 pounds is good, 45 is better.  

Working out 4 hours per day is good, 5 hours is better.

 

 

 

In other words, let's not change anything because he might rip his arms off.

 

 

[Shilgy]

19 minutes ago, bazinky said:

Require more forced carries for the shots hit off-line. Rough is not as big of deal when you can run the ball up to the green, especially when you can do it with a short iron.

 

That said, I'm of the opinion that there isn't much you can do to combat a bomber with a hot putter. I only see distance as a problem when the longer guys start winning with crappy short-game play.

Th rough in front of the green idea is more penal overall for the short hitter than the long hitter. As @isaacbmnoted above everything you try to do to harm the long hitter actually affects the short hitter more. 
Good to know we have learned nothing over the last 23 years of Tiger proofing. 

[ScottF]

34 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

Everything you do to make a golf course harder for a long hitter makes it harder still for a short hitter.

Not necessarily true. Courses that put hazards 250 yards off the tee don’t even come into play for short hitters like me that can’t hit the ball that far. If they put them 300 yards plus off the tee, I’m still going to hit right over them on my second shot. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by ScottF

[ClarkGrswld4]

ants...lots and lots of ants

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, ScottF said:

Not necessarily true. Courses that put hazards 250 yards off the tee don’t even come into play for short hitters like me that can’t hit the ball that far. If they put them 300 yards plus off the tee, I’m still not going to hit right over them on my second shot. 

If I read that right what is your solution? And remember we are discussing a pro solution. Not a solution for short hitting amateurs. A hazard 250 off the tee won’t come into play for the long hitter at all. If you put a deep hazard on a long par 4...say 520 on tour. And you create a hazard that runs from 290 off the tee to 350 so everyone needs to lay up. Now you have created approximately a 240 yard approach shot. Which favors the long hitter.

I do not believe there is anything you can do to a course that negates the ability to hit it long and straight and the advantage that skill creates.

[mackepa]

less rough, firmer fairways with wider angles until you get to 300 yards +. then it starts to bottleneck into narrow fairways lined with deep bunkers with high lips or even church pew style bunkers. 

[RedWings1]

Yes, he bombs the ball and so do some others. What most people still don't acknowledge is that Bryson putted awesome at Det and the US Open. Almost always the person who wins any tourney on any level is one of the top putters that week!
 

I'd get rid of the green reading topographic maps these guys are pulling out of their pocket 1 to 4 times per putt on each green.
I believe this is making putting so friggin easy for tour pros.

I also think they need to stop cutting and rolling the fairways so they are running at 10+ on the stemp with drives running out another 20 to 40+ yards after impact.

[ScottF]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

If I read that right what is your solution? And remember we are discussing a pro solution. Not a solution for short hitting amateurs. A hazard 250 off the tee won’t come into play for the long hitter at all. If you put a deep hazard on a long par 4...say 520 on tour. And you create a hazard that runs from 290 off the tee to 350 so everyone needs to lay up. Now you have created approximately a 240 yard approach shot. Which favors the long hitter.

I do not believe there is anything you can do to a course that negates the ability to hit it long and straight and the advantage that skill creates.

You don’t have to do anything to negate the ability to hit it long and straight. If a guy can hit it 350 and be in the fairway, fine. But if he misses the fairway, make him pay. Bryson missed 60% of the fairways.  He wasn’t penalized enough for the inaccuracies. He knew that he wasn’t going to be hurt enough if he missed the fairway so he was free to let loose. Make the risk of a bad shot severe enough off the tee to make you think about playing safer and shorter.  

[elwhippy]

They tried with Tiger and failed. The penalties off the tee would need to be far more severe....water, out of bounds, bushes, rocks etc. 

[bscinstnct]

From what I see in the stats, his performance in the US Open, particularly SG approach and SG around the green, was far superior to the 17 tournaments in the 2020 season (2nd pic below)

 

If he can continue to play basically TW 1.0 circa 2000 golf, you can’t “proof” anything and he’s gonna kill everybody.

 

But, more likely he reverts to the mean and is a great driver and putter with a “poor to good” approach/green side game.

 

 

[Ferguson]

19 minutes ago, elwhippy said:

They tried with Tiger and failed. The penalties off the tee would need to be far more severe....water, out of bounds, bushes, rocks etc. 

 

They were successful.   

 

 

Tiger is still short of this guy in the majors column. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, still short of this guy, in height. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, still short of this guy, in # of divorces. 

 

 

 

[isaacbm]

The other side of that coin is should we make the golf course  more difficult for guys who are good putters? Should we penalized guys who have good wedge play? Should we penalized guys who have good course management? What would that look like? Every time a guy with good course management is about ready to hit somebody throws a doughnut at him? Or how about putting every time a good putter is ready to putt somebody runs out and drags his ball another 8 feet away from the hole? Why does anything have to be “Proofed” . 
 

If you say as a general rule you want everybody on the tour to hit it 15% less that’s one thing. But trying to figure out how to penalize long hitters is not possible. Especially when they can hit Less club the same distance as the short hitter and therefore be more accurate.

 

anyone ever hear of Bobby Jones? How about Sam Snead? How about Jack Nicklaus? Long hitters have had an advantage for 100 years guys! not going away.  Literally the only way you could take away Bryson’s advantage would be to change the rules only for him. As in he’s only allowed a 42 inch driver with 12° of loft for example.  
 

Edited October 1, 2020 by isaacbm