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How Would YOU "Bryson Proof" a Course??


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There's two distinct, but separate, issues people talk about when they are discussing Bryson-proofing or Tiger-proofing.

 

The first is the perceived advantage of the long hitter, and reigning that in comparatively, to even the field for the shorter hitters. Personally, I don't think this really even merits a discussion. Athletes evolve their fields in every sport played. Athletes are constantly pushing the boundaries. This doesn't need to be reigned in, it's just a fact of athletic competition. 

 

The second is unique to golf. Golf is the athlete against the course, rather than directly against another athlete. A huge number of these courses were designed 80+ years ago and as such were designed with the distances people were hitting the ball 80+ years ago. Many of these courses can't be lengthened due to real estate concerns, and others can't afford the tens of millions of dollars to constantly do a redesigned course with all new hazards to accommodate Bryson distances, while still being playable the rest of the year to their members or public. So, the discussion here has turned to the equipment roll-back, ie limited flight balls. By reducing distance by 10-15% you keep old courses still playable, and interesting, without forcing major hardships on them; and the long-hitters still have the same proportional advantage over the short hitters since their relative distances remain the exact same. This is the solution currently supported by both Jack and Tiger. They aren't concerned with reigning in the long ball, but protecting courses from becoming irrelevant. 

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It was his week to win.  Seems like a hip shot reaction to make changes based on the performance of one player in one tourney.        They didn't move the Pacific Ocean or Stillwater Co

Hey Bro, I hope all's well👊   Yah, John is the most accurate Long Baller that I've ever Played with or watched over an extended period of time or rounds. When his head was in the game, and th

How would I Bryson proof a course? Pair him up with Bernhard Langer. 

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52 minutes ago, ScottF said:

You don’t have to do anything to negate the ability to hit it long and straight. If a guy can hit it 350 and be in the fairway, fine. But if he misses the fairway, make him pay. Bryson missed 60% of the fairways.  He wasn’t penalized enough for the inaccuracies. He knew that he wasn’t going to be hurt enough if he missed the fairway so he was free to let loose. Make the risk of a bad shot severe enough off the tee to make you think about playing safer and shorter.  

They made the fairways too narrow at Winged Foot. Bryson may have only hit 41%(?) of his fairways in the event but that was above the field average.

I would venture a guess that Bryson IS STRAIGHTER than was Fred Funk or Mike “Radar” Reid. Meaning that as his ball was over their distance he was still within the fairway cut. It’s that extra 50-60 yards that gets a smidge into the rough. So your plan is to essentially make them all hit it the same distance? As others have said let’s just play a par three course then if driving long is not rewarded. 

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19 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

They were successful.   

 

 

Tiger is still short of this guy in the majors column. 

 

 

image.png.9ac44768ca9f12484a13fe23e2050b67.png

 

 

 

 

 

And, still short of this guy, in height. 

 

image.png.577485489fc28b299930e32b4cee2326.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, still short of this guy, in # of divorces. 

 

image.png.cef88c62e5db0b2157111e110a82b276.png

 

 

 

Bryson apparently is scientist enough to understand (so far), you can't have "marital issues" if you don't get married. 😉

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1 minute ago, Dr. Block said:

I think it's also worth a mention that Bryson has dominated two parkland courses this year in Detroit and at the US Open.  Parkland courses are a bombers paradise, the only real hazards are the boundary lines of the property.    

So the answer is they should play more here in Arizona. But not at the TPC Scottsdale where they play the Phoenix Open. They need to go to some of the more severe desert courses where if you get off the grass you are unplayable in rocks and cactus.

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6 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So the answer is they should play more here in Arizona. But not at the TPC Scottsdale where they play the Phoenix Open. They need to go to some of the more severe desert courses where if you get off the grass you are unplayable in rocks and cactus.

 

Not providing an answer, just an observation.  Maybe we need to take his performance on all the different types of courses into consideration before we call for "proofing".  A lot of courses may already be proofed.   Of course, like its been said, there's no proofing a hot putter and strong wedge game. 

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First thing I would point out in the article linked is they said BDC was a big man.  Wiki has him down at 6'1" and 239lbs.  Not many people accuse me of being big.  I'm 6'0" 235.  No protein shakes involved.

 

You want to design a course that would level the playing field?  It's called a par three course.  Driver is completely out of his hands.  Cool you can hit a 4i 280.  No need to though.

 

But seriously, if you wanted to talk about a regulation length PGA Tour set up that would be problematic, Harbour Town.  You can hit it far but you can't hit it far and straight or hit it far, high and straight.  Doesn't mean he can't win there (DJ did) but it would bring more of the field into contention.

 

Like BDC said in the article, he has to be forced into making decisions about what to tee off with.  He has to be forced to evaluate risks. It is not enough to put the rough so damn deep at 340 you can't hit driver.  It needs to offer just enough temptation of reward, of the ability to recover if I go into the rough, that I am thinking hard on the tee box whether I should go driver or lay back with an iron and be safe.  That being said, if US Open rough isn't enough to cause you to re-think hitting driver I don't know what is.

 

I bet the stats are available on the PGA Tour website somewhere but it would be interesting to look at which holes played the most over par for everyone and try to find the commonalities.  Throw out or minimize length to an extent and see what things those holes have that cause problems.

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2 minutes ago, jons1 said:

His short game was 1st or 2nd in strokes gained against the field.. that's why he won.

 

Due to some family obligations and issues I wasn't able to watch the US Open.  Was BDC approaching the green from the fairway most often or the rough?  I wonder what his average approach shot distances were compared to the field?  If you are closer to the hole hitting your approach, you are likely going to be closer to the hole after your approach.  Length begets proximity is a mostly true generality.

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4 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Due to some family obligations and issues I wasn't able to watch the US Open.  Was BDC approaching the green from the fairway most often or the rough?  I wonder what his average approach shot distances were compared to the field?  If you are closer to the hole hitting your approach, you are likely going to be closer to the hole after your approach.  Length begets proximity is a mostly true generality.

Don’t have the answer you seek but I  will say there were only a few players that hit more approach shots from the fairway than from the rough. There were only a few over 50% fairways hit as the fairways were cut too narrow which played into the long hitters game.

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5 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Don’t have the answer you seek but I  will say there were only a few players that hit more approach shots from the fairway than from the rough. There were only a few over 50% fairways hit as the fairways were cut too narrow which played into the long hitters game.

 

The highlights I got to see, he hit from the rough, allowed for the release and roll, and either got the ball within makeable range or no worse than two putt.  He even said in the article if he wasn't able to allow for the release from the rough (hazards in front of green) he would have had trouble.

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Take away the tools of his trade. :einstein::classic_laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What you've got to do is cut the hamstring on the back of his leg right at the bottom. He'll never play golf again, because his weight displacement goes back, all his weight is on his right foot, and he'll push everything off to the right. He'll never come through on anything. He'll quit the game.

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If it goes right, it's a slice. If it goes left, it's a hook. If it goes straight, it's a miracle.

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3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

So basically the real penalties are for being long? Short hitters get a pass?

Trees around the green create shade...shade on the green makes for poor turf conditions. Which is why so many courses are removing, not adding, trees.

Not really, just graduated difficulty like it is today. Not different than today when you decide how much of dog leg to cut off, or how close do you lay up to a hazard (water, bunker, waste, etc) for a shorter shot.

 

The length today bypasses those decisions. A stream that gently cuts into the fairway as you get closer to the green is already in play at many course today. I have no idea why you're up in arms...

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4 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Not really, just graduated difficulty like it is today. Not different than today when you decide how much of dog leg to cut off, or how close do you lay up to a hazard (water, bunker, waste, etc) for a shorter shot.

 

The length today bypasses those decisions. A stream that gently cuts into the fairway as you get closer to the green is already in play at many course today. I have no idea why you're up in arms...

Not up in arms at all. Just don’t understand the philosophy of your statement...

You are saying graduated difficulty the further from the tee you get...

Graduated fairways: the fairway gets narrower as you move closer to the hole. Have more water hazard and waste areas protecting the longer parts of the fairway.

 

Graduated roughs: the rough gets thicker as youmove closer to the hole.

 

The graduated difficulty of today is to raise the penalty for spraying it wider off the tee...not for hitting it further off the tee. Massive difference.  Hitting it further is a skill. There is no reason a player should be penalized more for hitting it 325 and missing the fairway versus hitting it 280 and missing the fairway. What you and a couple others have proposed is essentially to get everyone to hit their tee shot to the same place. Penalizing the longer player more harshly than the short player.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Block said:

I think it's also worth a mention that Bryson has dominated two parkland courses this year in Detroit and at the US Open.  Parkland courses are a bombers paradise, the only real hazards are the boundary lines of the property.    

Great point! 

 

Cheers🍻

RP

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Let's take a look at Bryson's tournament positions prior to the US Open...22nd, 50th, M/C, 4th, 30th and M/C...
He won at Detroit golf Club but after that I'd say that he was struggling...
I think that people are a little premature in changing golf as we now it because a player wins one tournament......Let's at least wait until he wins the Master before we talk about BDC proofing anything. IMO

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44 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Hey Bro, I hope all's well👊

 

Yah, John is the most accurate Long Baller that I've ever Played with or watched over an extended period of time or rounds. When his head was in the game, and that includes sh*ts & giggles games like Pro-Ams, regular money games and friendly games, he was easily the most accurate, rarely straying outside the second cut and I don't recall EVER seeing him "airmail(when the drive goes 1+ fairways over or OB)" a ball, where as I saw Norman airmail a few.

 

There's no way that BD can outdrive John in his prime cuz you gotta remember that John, as long as his backswing was, rarely "swung for the fences," went full bore or as he would say, "rip it," where as BD goes pedal to the metal every drive.

 

Our #2 is a short lil vanilla 346yd(BoBs) Par 4 and John normally hit a 3i to 50-60yds in front and flipped a wedge up to a small undulating green.

 

So this day it was John and I against  Maddie my Father & Brother and for sh*ts & giggles he pulled his driver, let 'er rip and while all of his tee balls sounded like a shot gun blast, this was louder, the ball was high and this was in 2011 and I'd been Playin with him for well over a decade so I'd seen about everything that he had in his bag, and I'd seen him "rip it," his vernacular for when he went for the fences before though this was different, lol. 

 

The ball drew a tad and came down between traps guarding the left & right front of the green, about 1-2yds in front of the green, bounced high once, landing 10-15' onto the green and rolled across the green, which has a slight uphill grade the last 1/3 and settled in the back frog hair🐸.

 

I'd seen other guys bounce it on, seen Couples and Norman and my Bro(A former Pinnacle LB national qualifier) one bounce it into the traps and my Bro has rolled it on numerous times, however no one ever dropped it between the traps and basically flew onto the green, which when I asked him his target, he said without laughing, "the pin," which was center green and 4-5' to the right of his ball as it rolled across the green.

 

Another extremely accurate Long Baller, and you young guns will have no f*ckin idea of whom I'm speaking, however Lon Hinkle rolled it onto the #2 green from the BoBs(Back of Box) with a PERSIMMON driver in the late 80's!!

 

In his prime, with today's equipment, he'd be AT LEAST as long as BD and John.

 

Lon was HUGE off the tee and more accurate than Jack(Ask Jack who the most accurate Long Baller that he Played with was and he'll tell ya Lon Hinkle), and FWIW, Lon won a bunch of PGA Long Drive Contests.

 

Haha, apologies for the novella, as sometimes I get carried away reminiscing, lolol😁

 

All The Best,

Richard

 

 

 

 

That was great Richard.  I was hoping for some big John tales.  I always enjoy when you lay some reminiscing on us.

 

Hope you're doing good as well.

 

Thanks again and keep them coming my friend,

Matt 

 

 

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Make him play holes (and courses) like this every week.

 

 

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Easy...

 

Ban the arm lock putters!

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