How Would YOU "Bryson Proof" a Course??

[gvogel]

1 hour ago, Forged4ever said:

Hey Bro, I hope all's well👊

 

Yah, John is the most accurate Long Baller that I've ever Played with or watched over an extended period of time or rounds. When his head was in the game, and that includes sh*ts & giggles games like Pro-Ams, regular money games and friendly games, he was easily the most accurate, rarely straying outside the second cut and I don't recall EVER seeing him "airmail(when the drive goes 1+ fairways over or OB)" a ball, where as I saw Norman airmail a few.

 

There's no way that BD can outdrive John in his prime cuz you gotta remember that John, as long as his backswing was, rarely "swung for the fences," went full bore or as he would say, "rip it," where as BD goes pedal to the metal every drive.

 

Our #2 is a short lil vanilla 346yd(BoBs) Par 4 and John normally hit a 3i to 50-60yds in front and flipped a wedge up to a small undulating green.

 

So this day it was John and I against  Maddie my Father & Brother and for sh*ts & giggles he pulled his driver, let 'er rip and while all of his tee balls sounded like a shot gun blast, this was louder, the ball was high and this was in 2011 and I'd been Playin with him for well over a decade so I'd seen about everything that he had in his bag, and I'd seen him "rip it," his vernacular for when he went for the fences before though this was different, lol. 

 

The ball drew a tad and came down between traps guarding the left & right front of the green, about 1-2yds in front of the green, bounced high once, landing 10-15' onto the green and rolled across the green, which has a slight uphill grade the last 1/3 and settled in the back frog hair🐸.

 

I'd seen other guys bounce it on, seen Couples and Norman and my Bro(A former Pinnacle LB national qualifier) one bounce it into the traps and my Bro has rolled it on numerous times, however no one ever dropped it between the traps and basically flew onto the green, which when I asked him his target, he said without laughing, "the pin," which was center green and 4-5' to the right of his ball as it rolled across the green.

 

Another extremely accurate Long Baller, and you young guns will have no f*ckin idea of whom I'm speaking, however Lon Hinkle rolled it onto the #2 green from the BoBs(Back of Box) with a PERSIMMON driver in the late 80's!!

 

In his prime, with today's equipment, he'd be AT LEAST as long as BD and John.

 

Lon was HUGE off the tee and more accurate than Jack(Ask Jack who the most accurate Long Baller that he Played with was and he'll tell ya Lon Hinkle), and FWIW, Lon won a bunch of PGA Long Drive Contests.

 

Haha, apologies for the novella, as sometimes I get carried away reminiscing, lolol😁

 

All The Best,

Richard

 

 

 

 

I remember the Hinkle tree.

[Forged4ever]

2 hours ago, gvogel said:

I remember the Hinkle tree.

Hahaha, that's a Classic!!!

 

For the Youngsters, who in the last year or two found out that there actually was legitimate golf Played Pre-Tiger, let me take ya on a lil walk back to 1979, US Open, Inverness Golf Club, 1st round and a guy, one Lonnie Hinkle(He preferred "Lon"🤷🏻‍♂️), who was a journeyman at the time, came to #8,  a dogleg par 5, and in the first round Looking n Played a 1i tee shot through a gap in the trees and down the adjacent 17th fairway, leaving him a 2i to the green.

 

Well, there was no friggin way that the USGA and the boys at Inverness were gonna let some no name vagabond make a joke of what was set up to be the toughest 5 on the track, as it was all anyone was talking about, though Lon having a share of the first round lead gave it a brighter spotlight than it probably normally would have had. So they had the Greenskeeper run out and pick up a 20' Black Hill Spruce, which was immediately planted and in place for the next day's Play😜

 

Lon's response??

 

No biggie, as he pulled his driver(pictured below), went OVER the Spruce, leaving him 4 CLUBS LESS than his day one drive(2i) had, which ironically was the drive that caused them to run out and drop a buck and a quarter on some god forsaken butt ugly Spruce(second pic below following a recent wind storm, 03/20, which left it partially uprooted), and took a 6i in and still got an easy two putt birdie, lolol. 

 

Thanks for the bringing up a great memory!!

 

All the Best Brotha👊

RP

Edited October 1, 2020 by Forged4ever

[isaacbm]

I played with Lon  Hinkle in Michigan in the early 90s at some point. He was hitting Threewood about 295 with a tiny persimmon head and an old tour Balata...

I can’t remember if it was McGregor or a Wilson. Anyway it sounded like he was going to break the club every time he hit it!

 

Lon was legend long!!

[jomatty]

6 hours ago, caniac6 said:

I think his driver was a factor at the US Open, but I think he won it with his putter, and his strength to hit the ball out of the rough. I heard Michael Breed come up with an interesting thought. He said to eliminate rough so the shorter hitters would be able to reach greens if they missed the fairway. I anybody can hit quality shots from the rough, and have a putting week like Bryson, they would be pretty hard to beat.

I don’t know if that was a real suggestion but it can’t be the answer.  Making the course easier to level the field just can’t be right.  I, wrongly, thought thick rough was the answer.  I thought if missing the fairway was a big enough penalty it would slow down the bomb and gouge guys.  They illustrated the issue with my thought process.  Strength and power is an advantage in every sport, and I don’t think there is anything that can be done about it.  It makes me sad but it is the case in almost every professional sport.  They can roll back the ball and that will protect the courses from becoming obsolete but strength and power will still be a big advantage...

[smashdn]

25 minutes ago, jomatty said:

I don’t know if that was a real suggestion but it can’t be the answer.  Making the course easier to level the field just can’t be right.  I, wrongly, thought thick rough was the answer.  I thought if missing the fairway was a big enough penalty it would slow down the bomb and gouge guys.  They illustrated the issue with my thought process.  Strength and power is an advantage in every sport, and I don’t think there is anything that can be done about it.  It makes me sad but it is the case in almost every professional sport.  They can roll back the ball and that will protect the courses from becoming obsolete but strength and power will still be a big advantage...

 

But in most sports strength and power is equalled with opposite strength and power because you have an offense and a defense.  But even still there are guys that can overcome power with accuracy and finesse (Greg Maddux for instance). 

 

In golf's case the course and the conditions are the defense.  You can't always count on conditions to come through.  In fact, you are sort of limited in set ups due to the potential for the conditions to cause the course to become unplayable (Opens and US Opens as examples).

 

Take BDC completely out of it for a second.  How do you present a course that is a challenge for the world's best but you still can tone it down the other 51 weeks out of the year for the normal clientele?  Links course is one answer.  But we tend to make a mess of our attempts at recreating those in the US save for Bandon.  I don't think any of the PGA Tour guys were particularly enamored with Trinity Forest aside from YJS.  They don't like the wide open, running, tack your ball around places.  The players run the Tour.  They go where they want and as such exert a lot of influence on how courses are presented and what style of courses they go to.  If all the big names refuse to go then the event dries up.

[Santiago Golf]

Stop making courses longer and don't roll back the ball.

 

If you make the courses play 6600 to 7200 yards (soft fairways, yet firm and fast greens) ... you would solve the problem. 

 

Or setup courses like 2013 US Open

[LeoLeo99]

Did they ever feel a need to Nicklaus proof a course?  Maybe Jack was smarter and only won by a shot or two to not make a mockery of the course.  

[gentles]

I don't agree with narrowing at 300 or anything like that - being able to hit the ball long high and straight is an important skill which should be rewarded, no different from being able to hit good iron shots or a tidy short game. 

 

My ideas:

• Regulate the ball or clubs in some way to make hitting super long straight drives harder...driver and ball tech means that players can go full steam at a driver with much lower risk of a really bad shot compared a smaller headed spinny ball. Missing the center of the face should be punished far more than it currently is IMO at the pro level. 
• Firmer, wider courses to level the playing field - if everyone is hitting shorter clubs then it gives the shorter hitters a better chance. A 500+ yard soft par 4 is the absolute worst becuase the shorter hitter has no chance at all to compete hitting hybrids etc. IMO hybrid vs 8i is a much better differential compared to 8i vs Wedge, or 100 yards vs 40 yards. 
• Longer, but less thick rough. Make it more about being able to judge a lie rather than brute strength having to hack out of it. When its super lush it becomes raw power to advance the ball, whereas wispy rough takes much more skill

[dlygrisse]

Bryson won by bombing it over the corners, often landing in the rough, then gouging a wedge to the front of those massive false fronted greens.  Coming out of the rough with no spin the ball would bound to somewhere on gne green or he would have a pretty easy pitch shot.  He also putted really well. 
 

So..

 

1. He will rarely putt that well again, he had a good week. I would be shocked if he putts that well at Augusta. 
 

2. ANGC requires precision irons into the greens, if he isn’t hitting shots from clean lies and sticking them on the right level below the hole good luck.  
3. His distance control with is wedges is very erratic.  His short game around the greens is his weakness.  Unless he greatly improves here I don’t like his chances.  ANGC is a 2nd shot course. 
 

yes he will hit some crazy good shots, I can see him having very short approaches to holes like 13, 15 and 18, but if he miss times one he will end up in jail, or In Raes Creek.  
 

if he has everything dialed in, he could win, but I just think that course could nip him in the a** when the pressure is on Sunday. 

[dlygrisse]

12 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

Did they ever feel a need to Nicklaus proof a course?  Maybe Jack was smarter and only won by a shot or two to not make a mockery of the course.  

Yes. Augusta added that bunker on the left side of 18 because of him.  Courses started hitting 7000 yards because of him.  Before Jack most courses were 6500-ish. 

[mahonie]

1 minute ago, dlygrisse said:

Bryson won by bombing it over the corners, often landing in the rough, then gouging a wedge to the front of those massive false fronted greens.  Coming out of the rough with no spin the ball would bound to somewhere on gne green or he would have a pretty easy pitch shot.  He also putted really well. 
 

So..

 

1. He will rarely putt that well again, he had a good week. I would be shocked if he putts that well at Augusta. 
 

2. ANGC requires precision irons into the greens, if he isn’t hitting shots from clean lies and sticking them on the right level below the hole good luck.  
3. His distance control with is wedges is very erratic.  His short game around the greens is his weakness.  Unless he greatly improves here I don’t like his chances.  ANGC is a 2nd shot course. 
 

yes he will hit some crazy good shots, I can see him having very short approaches to holes like 13, 15 and 18, but if he miss times one he will end up in jail, or In Raes Creek.  
 

if he has everything dialed in, he could win, but I just think that course could nip him in the a** when the pressure is on Sunday. 

 

I called it before BCD won at Winged Foot...I think he will annihilate Augusta. When your second shots are played with wedge on nearly every hole, it doesn’t matter that much where you’re playing them from unless you are behind a tree. Hitting wedge into the greens usually means you’ll be putting for birdie. He’s tightened up his short game and particularly his putting. I’ll be very surprised if he’s not in contention coming down the stretch.

[jomatty]

35 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

But in most sports strength and power is equalled with opposite strength and power because you have an offense and a defense.  But even still there are guys that can overcome power with accuracy and finesse (Greg Maddux for instance). 

 

In golf's case the course and the conditions are the defense.  You can't always count on conditions to come through.  In fact, you are sort of limited in set ups due to the potential for the conditions to cause the course to become unplayable (Opens and US Opens as examples).

 

Take BDC completely out of it for a second.  How do you present a course that is a challenge for the world's best but you still can tone it down the other 51 weeks out of the year for the normal clientele?  Links course is one answer.  But we tend to make a mess of our attempts at recreating those in the US save for Bandon.  I don't think any of the PGA Tour guys were particularly enamored with Trinity Forest aside from YJS.  They don't like the wide open, running, tack your ball around places.  The players run the Tour.  They go where they want and as such exert a lot of influence on how courses are presented and what style of courses they go to.  If all the big names refuse to go then the event dries up.

I don’t disagree but the idea of eliminating or greatly reducing the rough 8n an effort to combat power just seems like watering down the sport to combat an advantage that seems fair and square.  

[blueonblack]

Have to say, I am looking forward to Augusta and the Bryson-proofing I'm sure they've been up to.

The lack of rough would/should be tougher if it goes into the trees, but he does drive it surprisingly straight. Can he work it around the corners and such will be interesting to see? His pedigree is solid, so hard to stop him. Pretty all-around to say the least.

But let's see how long this streak lasts before we tear up great courses.

[c7015]

shorten the course 

[dlygrisse]

17 minutes ago, c7015 said:

shorten the course 

Crazy.  Like a fox. 

[jons1]

5 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Due to some family obligations and issues I wasn't able to watch the US Open.  Was BDC approaching the green from the fairway most often or the rough?  I wonder what his average approach shot distances were compared to the field?  If you are closer to the hole hitting your approach, you are likely going to be closer to the hole after your approach.  Length begets proximity is a mostly true generality.

 

 

If I remember correctly he hit about 43% of the fairways.

Edited October 1, 2020 by jons1

[jons1]

BDC stats for US Open.  He won with his short game.

 

[Forged4ever]

4 hours ago, isaacbm said:

I played with Lon  Hinkle in Michigan in the early 90s at some point. He was hitting Threewood about 295 with a tiny persimmon head and an old tour Balata...

I can’t remember if it was McGregor or a Wilson. Anyway it sounded like he was going to break the club every time he hit it!

 

Lon was legend long!!

He's also pretty witty, lol. He Played at the club a number of times, in both charity events and then he came to see Pete in the late 80's to do some swing work and we'd all grab a cart in the evening and go out on the course, play 4-5 holes then jump to another part of the course and play 4-5 more then pack it in.

 

So this one evening, Sam had come up to see Pete, so it was Sam, Pete, Lon and myself and we finished up and went into the men's card room for a pop and we were sittin at the table and there were two other tables right next to ours where we all used to sit and then there were the rest of the tables, probably 10-12 more around the room. So Sam comes in from takin a leak and says "Let's have one on Lon the Legend," and as Sam was renowned for his cheapness(though he had a heart of gold and spotted many struggling Pros $$ back in the day, a few of whom never paid him back, though he never said a word about it or them. Pete told me), everyone laughed as he was always volunteering others to foot the bill, and as Lon was -4 or 5 after 10 holes, he was the prime candidate, lol

 

So this guy sittin at the table behind us and not in our "crew," asked to no one in particular, "who the h*ll is Lon the Legend," to which I replied, "Lon Hinkle." He then said "never heard of him," and obviously along with not knowing who he was the guy was also clueless as to what Lon looked like, as he was sitting beside me and dryly replied, "you obviously are not following the right Tours," and he then stood, put out his hand and introduced himself to the guy, lol

 

He was a lot of fun to Play with and till I met John, he was the longest baller that I'd ever seen and I'd still have him in my top 3.

 

Stay Well Brotha👊

RP

Edited October 2, 2020 by Forged4ever

[Soloman1]

How about spending hundreds of millions of dollars to invent and install machines that randomly change the humidity, dew point and air density on each hole? That'll screw with his mind on each shot. Then, get the USGA to ban single length clubs to protect the game? Oh, and ban anchoring a putter against your arm. Oh, and hire Larry David of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" to follow him around and talk to him.

[tiderider]

1 hour ago, c7015 said:

shorten the course 

not the worst idea ... he's going to outdrive most regardless of the equipment ... make every hole a risk/reward par 4, with fronting hazards/rough ... 

[ChillyDipper]

If the goal is to long-ball proof the course (rather than Bryson-proof), I'd shorten it up so that the Corey Pavins of the world can compete.  6200 yards tops, rough short, greens firm.   Bryson hitting  a wedge from 40 is similar to a short-knocker hitting a wedge from 70 (at least is my hope).  And I say that the difference would be 30 yards because Bryson wouldn't necessarily want to hit driver. 

 

As for the poster who said to post a sign that says "No Brysons Allowed", the first thing that came to mind was the "No Homers Club"  - "We're allowed to have ONE".

[clevited]

Here are the best ideas I could come up with.

 

1) Implement a club randomizer wheel at the tee box for each hole.  The wheel has to be spun by each player and they are to tee off with whatever club is shown by the wheel when it stops.

 

2) Put a giant net up right in front of the tee box with a 6 foot gap between the bottom of the net and the ground.  This will force a "skilled" stinger shot to be hit by each player off the tee thus rewarding only the best and most skilled players.

 

3) Combine 1 and 2 for tee shots.

 

4) Use wheel for all shots.

 

5) Have all hazards be mobile so ground crews can just roll them to appropriate distances for each player for each shot.

 

Yes I am being sarcastic. 

 

If driving the ball long and keeping it in play, muscling it out of 6 plus inch long grass and landing it on good spots on the green, making long clutch putts, hitting out of deep bunkers, sucessfully hitting off precarious slopes all during a major where even Tiger Woods missed the cut isn't amazing to people on here and the infinitely "wise" USGA, then I don't know what is.

 

 

 

 

[jomatty]

It’s interesting that BDC is so unlike able that threads like this exist.  He has won a few events and one major and everyone (myself included) are trying to figure out how to stop him.  I don’t remember hearing people talk about tiger proofing or jack proofing courses when they were winning everything...my suggestion is to leave golf alone and it will be fine.  People will get stronger and the game will change a bit, but the game will be fine.  Bryson will won some, maybe a bunch.  He is damn good at most aspects of the game.  He is weird and annoying so it will be irritating to watch him win, but you don’t change a sport to combat someone playing within the rules and excelling.

I do realize that most comments are tongue and cheek but a lot of people are really talking about how to combat this single player and it is just strange to me.  I’m 42 years old and and played with a 25 year old that looked like they were carved out of stone the other day.  He had an advantage because he was younger, fitter and stronger.  Such is sports.  I didn’t feel it was unfair.

[Sanfran328]

2 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

He's also pretty witty, lol. He Played at the club a number of times, in both charity events and then he came to see Pete in the late 80's to do some swing work and we'd all grab a cart in the evening and go out on the course, play 4-5 holes then jump to another part of the course and play 4-5 more then pack it in.

 

So this one evening, Sam had come up to see Pete, so it was Sam, Pete, Lon and myself and we finished up and went into the men's card room for a pop and we were sittin at the table and there were two other tables right next to ours where we all used to sit and then there were the rest of the tables, probably 10-12 more around the room. So Sam comes in from takin a leak and says "Let's have one on Lon the Legend," and as Sam was renowned for his cheapness(though he had a heart of gold and spotted many struggling Pros $$ back in the day, a few of whom never paid him back, though he never said a word about it or them. Pete told me), everyone laughed as he was always volunteering others to foot the bill, and as Lon was -4 or 5 after 10 holes, he was the prime candidate, lol

 

So this guy sittin at the table behind us and not in our "crew," asked to no one in particular, "who the h*ll is Lon the Legend," to which I replied, "Lon Hinkle." He then said "never heard of him," and obviously along with not knowing who he was the guy was also clueless as to what Lon looked like, as he was sitting beside me and dryly replied, "you obviously are not following the right Tours," and he then stood, put out his hand and introduced himself to the guy, lol

 

He was a lot of fun to Play with and till I met John, he was the longest baller that I'd ever seen and I'd still have him in my top 3.

 

Stay Well Brotha👊

RP

Hi Richard, I don’t want to hijack this thread, but may I politely ask “Who the Hell are you"? 😄

 

You have spent time with some of the greats in the game, did you play on tour? I always enjoy your posts, particularly when you start wandering down the path of some obscure story that involves a well known name. 

 

I hope you are well and the worst of your health issues are behind you. Cheers,

Tim

[ingy]

question is how do we proof courses for all the people who were longer than Bryson..?

 

 

 

[Forged4ever]

1 minute ago, ingy said:

question is how do we proof courses for all the people who were longer than Bryson..?

 

 

 

Hahaha, think of averaging THREE HUNDRED & FIFTY TWO YARDS PER DRIVE(351.90) for a round of golf🏌🏻‍♂️

 

WTF😂😂???

 

 Nice post👊

 

Cheers🍻

RP

[tdeutmeyer]

Past 275yds out from the tee, water the fairways heavy and cut them long.   These guys don't need 80yds of roll.

[OrangeGravy]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Not much room for fans so perfect for 2020 pro golf.  But it does show that longer is not the way to rein in pro golf.

I would enjoy watching tournaments on that type of course and agree it's the best way to negate just pure distance. But, how long would it take until the players started bitching about it. 

[OrangeGravy]

5 hours ago, jomatty said:

I don’t know if that was a real suggestion but it can’t be the answer.  Making the course easier to level the field just can’t be right.  I, wrongly, thought thick rough was the answer.  I thought if missing the fairway was a big enough penalty it would slow down the bomb and gouge guys.  They illustrated the issue with my thought process.  Strength and power is an advantage in every sport, and I don’t think there is anything that can be done about it.  It makes me sad but it is the case in almost every professional sport.  They can roll back the ball and that will protect the courses from becoming obsolete but strength and power will still be a big advantage...

You don't have to go that far, but as seen with Wingedfoot, the fairways were so narrow that nobody could hit them. Guys who were taking less than driver couldn't even hit them. That just automatically removes the "short" guys from contention. It turns into who's the best from the rough and putter of the guys long enough to hit wedge out of the rough all day. 

[Forged4ever]

13 hours ago, Sanfran328 said:

Hi Richard, I don’t want to hijack this thread, but may I politely ask “Who the Hell are you"? 😄

 

You have spent time with some of the greats in the game, did you play on tour? I always enjoy your posts, particularly when you start wandering down the path of some obscure story that involves a well known name. 

 

I hope you are well and the worst of your health issues are behind you. Cheers,

Tim

Don't worry about hijackin the thread, lol. There is no such thing in one of my threads😊

 

No, never even close to Tour level, lol

 

As my Teacher often said, I was a football Player masquerading as a Player, lol

 

I was a good competitive Am, at my best, between +2.8 and +3.2.

 

My biggest break was having the Grandmother that I had, a 4-time State Womens' Am Champion and former Mixed BB Partner of Pete(Hary Wilford) Snead, Sam's Bro. She taught me the game starting at the age of 7yo, then she dropped me off on his doorstep figuratively speaking at the age of 14yo, and though football did consume my life from then until I was 22yo, I would be with Pete for the next 32+ years, until he passed in 2006. Pete was an amazing ambassador for the game, the only swing coach that Sam ever had, and many famous  Players, from Walkers Cuppers to Ryder Cuppers, dropped by his cow pasture/course & driving range, so I was fortunate to meet a few.

 

Pete was like a second father and though he was pretty hard on me, he helped me to maximize my ability as a Player. I used the intensity, focus and discipline that I had learned and successfully utilized on a football field to allow me to compete with and against Players much more talented than I from a purely golf standpoint, however I had a consistent reproducible swing, I was always a great putter and I seldom blew myself out of a round, especially in Match Play(the pic in my avatar is from the 2012 W PA Inter Club MP Championship where I beat a former State Am Champion and future USGA Champion in the Semis when I won it). Though I was by no means Elite, I was fortunate enough to beat a few Elite Players a few times where they Played down and I got "hot," lol

 

Then there were other times where I Played my *ss off and got pasted 8&7 by Nathan over at Oakmont(1999) and then 6&5 by Jay Sigel, again at Oakmont(1987), lolol. These were the difference between a solid competitive Plus Player and two Elite Am Players. That's why I always chuckle when those threads pop up where guys talk about a ~2 cap competing against a Pro or even a LPGA Player. Hell, I smoked 2~'s bedraggled & hung over, and I wasn't even Elite Am status, lolol😂😂

 

Anyhoo, that's me in a nutshell. 

 

I've just been very fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time, and not make an *ss of myself while I was there😉

 

Stay at Well Tim and I wish you and yours a great Holiday Season👊

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

RP

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Forged4ever