How Would YOU "Bryson Proof" a Course??

[OrangeGravy]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

But in most sports strength and power is equalled with opposite strength and power because you have an offense and a defense.  But even still there are guys that can overcome power with accuracy and finesse (Greg Maddux for instance). 

 

In golf's case the course and the conditions are the defense.  You can't always count on conditions to come through.  In fact, you are sort of limited in set ups due to the potential for the conditions to cause the course to become unplayable (Opens and US Opens as examples).

 

Take BDC completely out of it for a second.  How do you present a course that is a challenge for the world's best but you still can tone it down the other 51 weeks out of the year for the normal clientele?  Links course is one answer.  But we tend to make a mess of our attempts at recreating those in the US save for Bandon.  I don't think any of the PGA Tour guys were particularly enamored with Trinity Forest aside from YJS.  They don't like the wide open, running, tack your ball around places.  The players run the Tour.  They go where they want and as such exert a lot of influence on how courses are presented and what style of courses they go to.  If all the big names refuse to go then the event dries up.

Other sports (most of them in fact) do make rule changes or equipment changes to account for the athletic evolution of their game. They make them all of the time. Sometimes the rule changes are purely cosmetic, like the NFL basically neutering defenses steadily over the last decade+. Sometimes it's for the "better" of the game as the powers that be deem necessary, like pro tennis using heavy balls at the French Open and slower balls on hard courts to keep the game from turning into all aces or double faults for 5 sets. 

[Sanfran328]

15 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

there😉

 

16 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

I've just been very fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time, and not make an *ss of myself while I was there😉

Now that’s a great line, I might need to use it on my headstone. 

 

Thanks for your reply, nice to hear the back story. Keep your posts coming, all the best. 

Tim

[mahonie]

4 hours ago, OrangeGravy said:

I would enjoy watching tournaments on that type of course and agree it's the best way to negate just pure distance. But, how long would it take until the players started bitching about it. 

 

Lol, I’ve been bitching about it for 30 years...still the most enjoyable golf I’ve played though!

[jordan2240]

They should do the same things that were done when Nick Price and Luke Donald were number ones.

[NoTimeToDie]

I don't think distance proofing is the issue, he only hit 21 of 72 fairways, they could never "distance" proof a golf course against the longest hitters if it was just distance that won it for them. Bryson made magnificent approach shots after hitting to position, that's what won it not his distance, approach shots always make the best golfers. Kyle is 50+ yards average longer than Bryson with drives when he plays golf and hits more fairways, but he would be killed by Bryson because Bryson can do the best approach game in the world and Kyle probably isn't even statistically a plus golfer in that category, if he was he would probably be on tour at least.

 

So bottom line if everyone wants to stop a guy who is nowhere near the longest hitter in the world from winning because he made incredible tactical placement decisions off the tee and hit amazing approaches, then lets just turn the whole of the world golf tours into chip and putt putt 🙂 just saying.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE3jCX0g7xq4zRE5MS5c_mw

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by NoTimeToDie

[dropkicked]

Place multiple cameramen around the holes to watch his every move.

[QuigleyDU]

A shot clock that was actually enforced.

 

Truly though. I think the trick is not to try and tune a course to one guy but to open it up in a way that always others to compete. Bryson has his weaknesses. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by QuigleyDU

[Shilgy]

20 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Not much room for fans so perfect for 2020 pro golf.  But it does show that longer is not the way to rein in pro golf.

This is probably the first time I have replied to myself but just wanted to add...

while this course would probably on some holes prevent drivers being used in a tour level event the scoring would be very low. I would be shocked if the winning score was not better than -20 to -24 for a four round event. 

[mahonie]

55 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

This is probably the first time I have replied to myself but just wanted to add...

while this course would probably on some holes prevent drivers being used in a tour level event the scoring would be very low. I would be shocked if the winning score was not better than -20 to -24 for a four round event. 

Driver for me is only realistically in play on 8 holes. Having said that, even if you take iron off the tee for position some of the doglegs mean that you have to hit a 5 yard wide window to leave a good line into the flag for your 2nd shot. To get into the right position on many holes, you have to be able to move the ball both ways. Fairways are typically cut to 24 yards wide, 2 yard strip of semi-rough and then you’re into dense trees upto 100 feet high framing the hole from tee to green. In the trees, if it’s not a lost ball it’s a chip sideways. Greens are tiny by US standards and relatively firm during the summer months. Slopes are generally subtle, but get on the wrong side during the summer when they’re running 10 on the stimp, and the ball can easily get away from you.

 

It’s one of the most frustrating courses but also one of the most enjoyable and satisfying. I’ve shot 93 one round, 76 the next followed by 83. 

 

It is recognised to be one of the harder courses in the district and it will be interesting to see what impact the WHS has when it comes in next month as our handicaps have generally ‘travelled well.’

 

Average score over a couple of years of a PGA ‘mini tour’ event (single round each time) was 78. I’m not saying the elite of PGA Tour wouldn’t score well and it would be great fun watching them try. Seeing the best in the world shape shots and controlling trajectory when the wind is swirling through the trees has always been one of the greatest sights in sport for me.

[Sean2]

I don't think anything needs to be done. He hit more fairways then the field (41% versus 39%), he putted well, and got up and down when he needed to. All things one needs to do to win a US Open. His driving was only one component contributing to his win. 

[Shilgy]

Funny in hindsight...I finally get around to reading the Golf Digest preview of the US Open and it has an article regarding the deep rough and how straight driving will never be more important.

[DFS PFD]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Funny in hindsight...I finally get around to reading the Golf Digest preview of the US Open and it has an article regarding the deep rough and how straight driving will never be more important.

You could probably find a version of that statement in every Golf Digest before the US Open or Open every single year. 

[Mitchell]

Eliminate putter being able to touch any part of body except hands during stroke- course set up had less to do with win than self-management did. Nice topic Bro👊🏻

Edited October 2, 2020 by Mitchell

[Titleist99]

I look forward to day that a bunker becomes a true Hazard or penalty on the PGATOUR instead of a safe haven.....until the courses are setup to be more penal, I'm really not interested in seeing any kind of rollback, restrictions or rule changes what so ever....Just my opinion.

[Body_Visions]

Geoff Ogilvy had some interesting thoughts on The Fried Egg podcast. It’s very good, if you can stand listening to the host.  

[Kilo1545]

They should put these up in the fairway at 300yds and another one directly in front of the green.  That way, DeChambeau has to carry his tee shot 325+ yards to clear them (depending on their height) and if he sprays one into the 17" rough (the rough will be 17"), the walls in front of the green complex will prevent him from gouging out a low-spin runner up onto the front of the green.

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Kilo1545

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, Kilo1545 said:

They should put these up in the fairway at 300yds and another one directly in front of the green.  That way, DeChambeau has to either carry his tee shot 325+ yards to clear them (depending on their height) and if he sprays one into the 17" rough (the rough will be 17"), the walls in front of the green complex will prevent him from gouging out a low-spin runner up onto the front of the green.

 

Or, the other option since everyone is just being PC and suggesting 10-20% would be a 50% rollback. All of the reasons used for a rollback apply. Save money? Heck clubs could sell lots and build houses on the unused land. Save time? 250 yard “beast” par 4’s should save a lot of time. Probably wouldn’t need to carry as many clubs either as gapping should get quite compressed. AND we wouldn’t have to worry if anyone is using the old illegal golf ball. It would be much easier to tell I would think. 😎

[smashdn]

22 hours ago, jomatty said:

I don’t disagree but the idea of eliminating or greatly reducing the rough 8n an effort to combat power just seems like watering down the sport to combat an advantage that seems fair and square.  

 

I am inclined to agree as well with how BDC has done it.  I don't begrudge any player for doing whatever within the rules to create an edge or advantage.

 

I don't guess I see where reducing rough is watering down the sport however.  Rough does not technically exist within The Rules.  ANGC didn't have any "rough" for a time.  Let's just say that you have areas that are farther and farther off the intended line or lines of play.  You may or may not encounter things that hamper your ability to get to the green the farther off those intended lines you go.  TOC has fairly wide and accommodating fairways but the are pock marked with hazards that must be skirted.

[jomatty]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

I am inclined to agree as well with how BDC has done it.  I don't begrudge any player for doing whatever within the rules to create an edge or advantage.

 

I don't guess I see where reducing rough is watering down the sport however.  Rough does not technically exist within The Rules.  ANGC didn't have any "rough" for a time.  Let's just say that you have areas that are farther and farther off the intended line or lines of play.  You may or may not encounter things that hamper your ability to get to the green the farther off those intended lines you go.  TOC has fairly wide and accommodating fairways but the are pock marked with hazards that must be skirted.

If you are talking about building some new courses without rough then I suppose I could get behind it.  I just don’t see taking a course like wingfoot or other classic courses and eliminating the rough.  Everywhere I’ve ever played, it has been a penalty to miss the fairway and have to deal with the rough. Admittedly I haven’t played that many places.   I can’t see changing that to make it tougher on a handful of fast swingers.  I mean if a few courses had no real rough it would be one thing but eliminating it from courses being the norm just strikes me as bad.  Just my opinion of course.

[CCTxGolf]

Like others have said it was really mainly that he had an awesome week.

 

His strength was a huge factor in making that rough far less penal for him than other players.

 

I think the main thing that would slow him down is water. If there had been more water he would have been toast. Hitting the ball So far sideways and into other holes fairways can not be completely without repercussions. If he would have found water obviously he would not be able to use his muscles to get out of it.

[mcputter]

How to 'Bryson-Proof' a course? Implement a shot clock.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, CCTxGolf said:

Like others have said it was really mainly that he had an awesome week.

 

His strength was a huge factor in making that rough far less penal for him than other players.

 

I think the main thing that would slow him down is water. If there had been more water he would have been toast. Hitting the ball So far sideways and into other holes fairways can not be completely without repercussions. If he would have found water obviously he would not be able to use his muscles to get out of it.

Then he would have laid up short of the water and still had an easier time than most covering the recast of the hole. He’s not an idiot blindly whaling away at driver.

And...did you miss the part where he was 19th in driving accuracy?

[randywall]

With USGA and the R&A being concerned about distance, and all the talk about how the major OEM's have a stake that is hard to take into account, wouldn't it be possible to just put a limit on how few degrees of loft that a driver can have on the PGA Tour? Pick a number like perhaps 9*, and say that's the minimum loft on a driver on PGA Tour, and a lot of the distance is taken off the table, OEM's can still compete on technology, balls can still differentiate from each other, etc.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, randywall said:

With USGA and the R&A being concerned about distance, and all the talk about how the major OEM's have a stake that is hard to take into account, wouldn't it be possible to just put a limit on how few degrees of loft that a driver can have on the PGA Tour? Pick a number like perhaps 9*, and say that's the minimum loft on a driver on PGA Tour, and a lot of the distance is taken off the table, OEM's can still compete on technology, balls can still differentiate from each other, etc.

That's better than a ball roll back and can be instituted almost immediately.....consider it done, I hereby decree. LOL!

[Jc0]

21 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

That's better than a ball roll back and can be instituted almost immediately.....consider it done, I hereby decree. LOL!

 

 

Then you'll just have adapters that open the face up 4 degrees making it an effective 5 degree loft. Also it provides a competitive advantage for some players who deloft the club naturally and already play higher lofted drivers. 

 

 

[Shilgy]

53 minutes ago, Jc0 said:

 

 

Then you'll just have adapters that open the face up 4 degrees making it an effective 5 degree loft. Also it provides a competitive advantage for some players who deloft the club naturally and already play higher lofted drivers. 

 

 

Pffft....details lol. C’mon man get with the program. This is the USGA we’re talking about. It doesn’t have to be well thought out.

#kneejerksareus

Edited October 4, 2020 by Shilgy

[Tasals]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:54 AM, QuigleyDU said:

A shot clock that was actually enforced.

 

Truly though. I think the trick is not to try and tune a course to one guy but to open it up in a way that always others to compete. Bryson has his weaknesses. 

This would do it pretty handily. Bryson was taking 2min 40s to play his shot compared to Wolfe at sub 40 seconds. Its supposed to be a 60/40second shot clock as well isnt. Well there ya go, Bryson never wins anything agian.

[smashdn]

On 10/2/2020 at 9:12 PM, jomatty said:

If you are talking about building some new courses without rough then I suppose I could get behind it.  I just don’t see taking a course like wingfoot or other classic courses and eliminating the rough.  Everywhere I’ve ever played, it has been a penalty to miss the fairway and have to deal with the rough. Admittedly I haven’t played that many places.   I can’t see changing that to make it tougher on a handful of fast swingers.  I mean if a few courses had no real rough it would be one thing but eliminating it from courses being the norm just strikes me as bad.  Just my opinion of course.

 

 

Definitely not advocating for removing rough on a parkland layout.  The charm of wide open fairways is two-fold.  1) You can plot your own path to the hole among many options of your choosing weighing risk and reward as you go.  2) You have the space to get yourself into trouble.  It would be nice with these no-rough or wide fairways that you had running fairways of sufficient width that the hazards actually funnel balls into them as opposed to being ringed with rough where shots are caught before they get into the sand or too far off-line.

[MUNIGRIT]

DQ him.

[tannyhoban]

Full contact golf!!!!

 

Always great to see RP as OP threads.