Golf is Exclusive? An iPhone costs more than most sets of clubs and a bucket of balls is less than a movie.

[llewol007]

Depends how you look at it. Golf was considered exclusive since the price to play and equipment did keep a lot of people from joining the game. And the exclusivity aspect was the country club, snobbish rich who can only take part. I think the "Tiger Era" did pave the way for more people to take up the game including myself. You are correct in that things nowadays are just as expensive if not more than the expense you pay for golf. But green fees are still money and if you play once or twice a week, it does add up, and like others have said, the game is harder than it looks. Ive had friends who take up the game, spend money on golf clubs and end up giving up because they never see themselves improving. 

[Emthree]

Polo is an exclusive sport, not golf. It's a nightmare trying to sell last year's horse on ebay.

[Admhowarth]

3 minutes ago, Emthree said:

Polo is an exclusive sport, not golf. It's a nightmare trying to sell last year's horse on ebay.

 

There's boat rich...

Then there's plane rich...

and finally there's polo rich...

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 minute ago, llewol007 said:

Depends how you look at it. Golf was considered exclusive since the price to play and equipment did keep a lot of people from joining the game. And the exclusivity aspect was the country club, snobbish rich who can only take part. I think the "Tiger Era" did pave the way for more people to take up the game including myself. You are correct in that things nowadays are just as expensive if not more than the expense you pay for golf. But green fees are still money and if you play once or twice a week, it does add up, and like others have said, the game is harder than it looks. Ive had friends who take up the game, spend money on golf clubs and end up giving up because they never see themselves improving. 

Agreed. At one time the entry barrier to golf was money when courses weren't plentiful in the USA. But not anymore. From 1986 to 2004 the number of US golf courses increased 44%!  Interesting nearly half the new US golf courses built in the last 6 years were built more than 50 miles from large cities. 

 

Agreed... Bottom line, golf being expensive and exclusive is largely inaccurate and a relic from the past. 

[RainShadow]

6 hours ago, NoTimeToDie said:

I obviously grew up in a little different place / era, my 2 local courses only rules 35 years ago were a shirt with sleeves, no collar necessary 🙂 and no bare feet or flip flops. How much is a collared shirt now days, 5 dollars at K-Mart? My local range still allows any dress as long as it's neat and one down the road allows pretty much anything other than naked 🙂 The local Starbucks is far more exclusive IMHO.

How do you know about the naked part? ( asking for a friend) 🙂 

[Soloman1]

It's the mean (average) total cost, including play, equipment and apparel. 

[chippa13]

4 hours ago, Bluefan75 said:

Golf is going to have a bit a of cost disadvantage. After all, it's largest playing field of any sport, and real estate costs.

 

But hearing "golf is exclusive" is a lot like people who say "you can't afford to take your kid to a game."  That isn't true.  Parking and a ticket are the only things that are needed or the event doesn't happen for you. Beer/food/souvenirs are optional.  And pretty much every venue has some tickets that are fairly low price.

 

But what people really mean is "I can't afford to sit behind home plate at these prices and drink the 4 beers I want to drink."  And when it comes to golf they mean "it's too exclusive why can't I play Augusta National."  There are tons of golf courses that can be played.  And the collared shirt argument?  That's just someone looking for an excuse to justify not doing something.  You play hoops in crocs?    Soccer in jeans?

 

Certain levels of golf courses are exclusive.  But golf itself is not.

Going to a game isn't expensive? If a father wants to take his son to a Red Sox game and they don't mind sitting far from the field they are still in for about $250-$300 for the 2 tickets and parking.

 

Golfing once is not exclusive. But if one wants to be a golfer playing a couple of times a week then it can be cost and time prohibitive.

[chippa13]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

The average golfer spends just under $3,000 per year on golf.

Because $3,000 is a small number to average people?

[Soloman1]

18 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Because $3,000 is a small number to average people?

I don't understand your comment. I made no judgement, just telling you the average amount spent per golfer per year.

 

Edit: added "per year"

Edited October 2, 2020 by Soloman1

[chippa13]

Based on the topic, there is an inference made.

[golfortennis]

30 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Going to a game isn't expensive? If a father wants to take his son to a Red Sox game and they don't mind sitting far from the field they are still in for about $250-$300 for the 2 tickets and parking.

 

Golfing once is not exclusive. But if one wants to be a golfer playing a couple of times a week then it can be cost and time prohibitive.

 

Most venues, I said.  Sure, there is the odd place like Fenway where there are no seats.  But you're grabbing one of over 100 venues.  There might be 5 that that applies.  The vast majority of them can be had for a very reasonable sum.  It's all a choice.

 

Again, where are you playing?  And now you're bringing time into it.  Which yes, it takes time.  BUt if you're willing to get up early, you can mitigate that as well.

 

There's a difference between "can't do it" and "can't do it at my dream price and most convenient time."

[chippa13]

23 minutes ago, Bluefan75 said:

 

Most venues, I said.  Sure, there is the odd place like Fenway where there are no seats.  But you're grabbing one of over 100 venues.  There might be 5 that that applies.  The vast majority of them can be had for a very reasonable sum.  It's all a choice.

 

Again, where are you playing?  And now you're bringing time into it.  Which yes, it takes time.  BUt if you're willing to get up early, you can mitigate that as well.

 

There's a difference between "can't do it" and "can't do it at my dream price and most convenient time."

Oh, so the choice for the New England dad is to pack up his family and move to Phoenix? Many people are willing to get up early because that is what they do for their job that you know, feeds the family and keeps the roof over their heads. But I love the "it's all a choice" folks. It is a much easier choice for those with the ample means and time.

[Sean2]

There is no doubt certain golf clubs that are way out of the price range of most of us on this forum. It seems people who don't play the game are familiar with those kinds of places, and not, for example, the local muni where I can walk 18 for $27. 

[James the Hogan Fan]

28 minutes ago, Bluefan75 said:

 

Most venues, I said.  Sure, there is the odd place like Fenway where there are no seats.  But you're grabbing one of over 100 venues.  There might be 5 that that applies.  The vast majority of them can be had for a very reasonable sum.  It's all a choice.

 

Again, where are you playing?  And now you're bringing time into it.  Which yes, it takes time.  BUt if you're willing to get up early, you can mitigate that as well.

 

There's a difference between "can't do it" and "can't do it at my dream price and most convenient time."

 

Well if you couldn't do something at your convenience, you might feel, perhaps, 'excluded'? 

 

Golf has considerable barriers to entry for the beginner. There is a cost for clubs and other equipment costs. That's before a club is even swung. People aren't willing to take a $20 risk on a new restaurant they might not like, so $200 for clubs is a shaky start. 

 

So now you want to play golf. You find a muni, pay $20-30 to be godawful at golf, be stared at and glared at for breaking hitherto unknown etiquette things, and to otherwise not enjoy yourself for 5 hours.

 

So you decide you need to practice and you learn a hundred balls costs $8-10 bucks and lessons are $100/hour. That's again looking pretty steep, for a game that isn't that fun.

 

I'm not saying golf is actively trying to exclude people, but based on its very nature, it's not that enticing to everyone. Sure it can be played on the cheap, but you've got to have the desire. As members of a golf forum we take that desire for granted. As a beginner/just trying outer, golf will shut you out pretty quick. 

 

[golfortennis]

40 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Oh, so the choice for the New England dad is to pack up his family and move to Phoenix? Many people are willing to get up early because that is what they do for their job that you know, feeds the family and keeps the roof over their heads. But I love the "it's all a choice" folks. It is a much easier choice for those with the ample means and time.

 

So an owner of a business should charge less just because?

 

And what is most important to that dad?  Going to a ballgame for a cheap price on a regular basis?  Life is all about choices.  Sure some have more than others, but many have more choices than they think they do as well.  You're not dealing with charities, you're dealing with businesses.  IF I have one of something, and you and another person both want it, I'm selling it to the other guy if he offers more.  Unless you'd like me to take his lower bid instead of your higher one, because, reasons.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Bluefan75

[Soloman1]

No! Please do not pack up and move to Phoenix. Stay away! There's dragons and coyotes and no more tee times or room on the highways for you. Everything is full. Move to somewhere else, PLEASE!

 

Local muni for $27? Y'all must live in the sticks. Sheesh. It's $100 for a dumpy, burned out goat ranch of a golf course... 😠

[golfortennis]

2 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

Well if you couldn't do something at your convenience, you might feel, perhaps, 'excluded'? 

 

Golf has considerable barriers to entry for the beginner. There is a cost for clubs and other equipment costs. That's before a club is even swung. People aren't willing to take a $20 risk on a new restaurant they might not like, so $200 for clubs is a shaky start. 

 

So now you want to play golf. You find a muni, pay $20-30 to be godawful at golf, be stared at and glared at for breaking hitherto unknown etiquette things, and to otherwise not enjoy yourself for 5 hours.

 

So you decide you need to practice and you learn a hundred balls costs $8-10 bucks and lessons are $100/hour. That's again looking pretty steep, for a game that isn't that fun.

 

I'm not saying golf is actively trying to exclude people, but based on its very nature, it's not that enticing to everyone. Sure it can be played on the cheap, but you've got to have the desire. As members of a golf forum we take that desire for granted. As a beginner/just trying outer, golf will shut you out pretty quick. 

 

 

Try starting playing hockey in Canada as an adult.  After you buy the equipment(which is comparable to golf equipment if not more), you need to either a)find a league that will allow beginners, or b) find a hockey school for adults.  If you don't know someone who has ice time, you can have a hell of a time getting chances. If you grew up playing, no problem, all the guys know buddies who know buddies.  Not to mention, almost all the rinks reserve most of the time for minor hockey.  So you better be ready to play at 10 pm or later(which can really screw up the next day if you have to work normal hours because you aren't falling asleep until 1 am at best).  Or you can play at 6 or 7 am on weekends. 

 

So you can be like some people who think you should whine and cry until they make it easier, or you suck it up and do it, or you find something else to do.  These aren't charities.

[chippa13]

4 minutes ago, Bluefan75 said:

 

Try starting playing hockey in Canada as an adult.  After you buy the equipment(which is comparable to golf equipment if not more), you need to either a)find a league that will allow beginners, or b) find a hockey school for adults.  If you don't know someone who has ice time, you can have a hell of a time getting chances. If you grew up playing, no problem, all the guys know buddies who know buddies.  Not to mention, almost all the rinks reserve most of the time for minor hockey.  So you better be ready to play at 10 pm or later(which can really screw up the next day if you have to work normal hours because you aren't falling asleep until 1 am at best).  Or you can play at 6 or 7 am on weekends. 

 

So you can be like some people who think you should whine and cry until they make it easier, or you suck it up and do it, or you find something else to do.  These aren't charities.

I also play hockey here in New Hampshire. The difference is that I recognize that the sport does have a problem of exclusivity.

[GHIN n Juice]

Sorry, I’m not quite following...Golf is not exclusive because clubs can cost about the same as a phone?  You do realize few people pay full price for the most expensive phone right?, and one round of golf a month is the same as a monthly phone bill... and golf requires you have 3.5-5 hours of free time...which also implies you have a job that affords you all those opportunities.

 

A bit of a self own on this one OP.  Let them eat cake I guess.

[golfortennis]

5 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

I also play hockey here in New Hampshire. The difference is that I recognize that the sport does have a problem of exclusivity.

 

Ok, you win a cookie.  Now what?  What "solution" is prevented by this "problem"? And how do you suggest getting from A to B?

[chippa13]

Run inexpensive learn to play clinics at the range during usual slow times. Block off Noon-2PM for inexpensive Learn to Play rounds on those slow Mondays or those short afternoons when noone wants to play only 9 before the shotgun leagues show up. Hold swap meets as a way to get used gear affordably. Just a few that come to mind and I'm sure other folks will have their ideas.

[Soloman1]

Who is this "noone" person who wants to play? Is he a member?

[chippa13]

You miss the space bar once and..............

[MtlJeff]

It depends on where you live of course since golf is tied to real estate prices....But i am a bit of a "truther" on this subject also OP. I have told many people over the years that golf is actually fairly inexpensive compared to other sports, especially when you are talking about families. 

 

As an individual, yes golf is more expensive than merely playing in a flag football league. So if you are a 30yr old single male....yes golf is not the cheapest. You can play in 5 different softball leagues for like 200$ each. You can play in men's flag football leagues for the same

 

However, wait until you have kids. Soccer, the "global game" (note: LOL) is hilariously expensive. I have 4 nieces that play soccer. It's hundreds of dollars per season for registrations, sometimes thousand + depending on city etc. That is before equipment, travel expenses (away tournaments where you stay in hotels), school programs like "sport etudes" in Quebec which have separate costs. Just one away tournament will cost you almost as much as a golf membership, when i was growing up my team played in 3-4 tournaments a year so you get the idea there. 

 

Meanwhile if i wanted to get my Daughter into golf it would be like 1500-2000$ add-on to my existing membership. Plus equipment costs and some lessons here and there. 

 

Golf is actually a lot less expensive than soccer or hockey for a good 10-11-12 yr old. And in Soccer the parents don't get to play a sport themselves while their kid is practicing....

 

 

[Admhowarth]

Really enjoying this thread.

 

If you look at population density, it tends to be on the coasts (some would argue that is changing). If you have high population density, you often have high land scarcity. That (generally speaking) would make golf more expensive the closer to the coast you get given the scarce (and expensive land). As you move inland, there are fewer people and more space. This would (generally speaking) make the cost of golf (tee times) less expensive. 

 

We moved from a coastal state, where public golf was difficult to access and could be expensive to an inland state where public golf is easy to access and has options from very affordable (sub 20 bucks) to expensive (north of 100 bucks).

 

 

[chippa13]

34 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

It depends on where you live of course since golf is tied to real estate prices....But i am a bit of a "truther" on this subject also OP. I have told many people over the years that golf is actually fairly inexpensive compared to other sports, especially when you are talking about families. 

 

As an individual, yes golf is more expensive than merely playing in a flag football league. So if you are a 30yr old single male....yes golf is not the cheapest. You can play in 5 different softball leagues for like 200$ each. You can play in men's flag football leagues for the same

 

However, wait until you have kids. Soccer, the "global game" (note: LOL) is hilariously expensive. I have 4 nieces that play soccer. It's hundreds of dollars per season for registrations, sometimes thousand + depending on city etc. That is before equipment, travel expenses (away tournaments where you stay in hotels), school programs like "sport etudes" in Quebec which have separate costs. Just one away tournament will cost you almost as much as a golf membership, when i was growing up my team played in 3-4 tournaments a year so you get the idea there. 

 

Meanwhile if i wanted to get my Daughter into golf it would be like 1500-2000$ add-on to my existing membership. Plus equipment costs and some lessons here and there. 

 

Golf is actually a lot less expensive than soccer or hockey for a good 10-11-12 yr old. And in Soccer the parents don't get to play a sport themselves while their kid is practicing....

 

 

Golf isn't exclusive after all. It is only another $2,000 on top of the existing membership for the daughter to play. Hilarious.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, chippa13 said:

Run inexpensive learn to play clinics at the range during usual slow times. Block off Noon-2PM for inexpensive Learn to Play rounds on those slow Mondays or those short afternoons when noone wants to play only 9 before the shotgun leagues show up. Hold swap meets as a way to get used gear affordably. Just a few that come to mind and I'm sure other folks will have their ideas.

 

So lower the price during low demand times.  I will give credit, that is a decent use of the time before leagues.  I've been caught in that myself when a road trip went awry. 

 

So are owners/pros being stupid not doing this stuff, or are they busy enough with traffic at full pop that it's a better use of time?  Rationally I would say the latter, but after seeing course owners make decisions over the years, I'm not writing off the former.  So I am really asking the question without trying to lead to one answer or another.

[MtlJeff]

2 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Golf isn't exclusive after all. It is only another $2,000 on top of the existing membership for the daughter to play. Hilarious.

 

Are you being sarcastic? My point is getting your kids into a sport like soccer or hockey would be a lot more than that. If golf is "exclusive" than every competitive sport is exclusive, and no one goes around calling soccer exclusive. Yet every parent i know with kids in intercity soccer pays more per year than it would cost them to get their kids into golf

[clinkinfo]

Golf CAN be exclusive and expensive. I can't play at Augusta. I can't afford to play at pebble.  

 

It doesn't mean it always is everywhere, but if you want it to be it can be.

 

Additionally, exclusive doesn't just mean "you can't play".  Many beginners feel Golf is exclusive because many of us who play don't like people learning on our courses, they slow down play, they don't know the rules or etiquette, and we as enthusiasts can generally be jerks about it.

 

So it's not just cost or status that drives exclusivity. 

[Hawkeye77]

Played 18 at a 9 hole course in the area I don't normally play this afternoon/evening - $26.  Nobody there, balmy 55 degrees and sunny, greens had been punched but rolled fine and the course was in good shape.