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Hips turning in backswing causing dreaded *hanks


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Hi all

 

I've been played by the *hanks my whole golfing life. They come out of nowhere, hit me for a couple of weeks then just disappear. I often think I've cracked the reason, but no it never worked.

 

Anyway I think I've cracked the reason and wanted to check if it makes sense? What I've noticed is I really turn my hips in the backswing, and by restricting their turn am getting much better contact when I unwind them in the downswing. 

 

I was just hoping people may have had this experience themselves, and just see if this sounds like a reasonable reason?

 

Thanks

Edited by tshirttan408
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  • tshirttan408 changed the title to Hips turning in backswing causing dreaded *hanks
15 minutes ago, tshirttan408 said:

Hi all

 

I've been played by the *hanks my whole golfing life. They come out of nowhere, hit me for a couple of weeks then just disappear. I often think I've cracked the reason, but no it never worked.

 

Anyway I think I've cracked the reason and wanted to check if it makes sense? What I've noticed is I really turn my hips in the backswing, and by restricting their turn am getting much better contact when I unwind them in the downswing. 

 

I was just hoping people may have had this experience themselves, and just see if this sounds like a reasonable reason?

 

Thanks

I found it was the opposite, if i dont turn them enough my hands have a habit of going towards the ball

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1 hour ago, Superbrit said:

I found it was the opposite, if i dont turn them enough my hands have a habit of going towards the ball

 

Maybe it's more of a feel for me than a reality. I have an over swing, and think by turning my hips too much, I have to really aggressively turn them in the down swing and early extend as a result to get them open at impact.

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It almost a certainty this is not the issue.  This is masking the real issue.  Incorrect hip movement is possible, but this is a bandaid that will likely lead to injury.

 

i am very curious about this.  Can you post a regular and restricted swing?

Edited by MonteScheinblum

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Maybe it depends on what you were trying to do with your hips? 

 

Shanks for me are ALWAYS about making an arms only swing with very poor body movement; much too far inside, with the hands then having to push the club out at the ball.  And that holds true whether it's full swing or short game.

 

But FOR me, there is a big difference in the thought of turning my front hip away vs turning my trail hip.  If I trigger my swing by what FEELS like a simultaneous turn of the trail hip combined with a movement of the front knee, then I make it easier to make a proper shoulder turn and not get stuck inside and have to throw my arms at the ball. 

 

If that front hip goes too far, then there just isn't time to get turned back and thru, so maybe what you're feeling isn't really restricted turning as much as reduced turning of the front hip?  Which gives you enough time to turn thru the swing correctly?

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On 10/6/2020 at 1:39 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

It almost a certainty this is not the issue.  This is masking the real issue.  Incorrect hip movement is possible, but this is a bandaid that will likely lead to injury.

 

i am very curious about this.  Can you post a regular and restricted swing?

Oh dear this is not what I wanted to hear. Thank you for the offer, I'll take a video of a couple of swings tomorrow and hopefully that'll shed some light

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On 10/6/2020 at 1:48 PM, bluedot said:

Maybe it depends on what you were trying to do with your hips? 

 

Shanks for me are ALWAYS about making an arms only swing with very poor body movement; much too far inside, with the hands then having to push the club out at the ball.  And that holds true whether it's full swing or short game.

 

But FOR me, there is a big difference in the thought of turning my front hip away vs turning my trail hip.  If I trigger my swing by what FEELS like a simultaneous turn of the trail hip combined with a movement of the front knee, then I make it easier to make a proper shoulder turn and not get stuck inside and have to throw my arms at the ball. 

 

If that front hip goes too far, then there just isn't time to get turned back and thru, so maybe what you're feeling isn't really restricted turning as much as reduced turning of the front hip?  Which gives you enough time to turn thru the swing correctly?

This is what I was thinking. When I say restricting I don't mean stopping, just limiting it compared to what I was normally doing. When I hit a bad one, it almost feels like I've got to rush my hips open to get to the ball.

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On 10/6/2020 at 1:39 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

It almost a certainty this is not the issue.  This is masking the real issue.  Incorrect hip movement is possible, but this is a bandaid that will likely lead to injury.

 

i am very curious about this.  Can you post a regular and restricted swing?

 

See below. Seeing them on camera they don't look that different but they do feel it. It also makes me realise how ugly my swing is!

 

1st is with the restricted feeling. 2nd is the one I get the shanks with.

 

Thank you!

 

 

Edited by tshirttan408
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Practice swings are notoriously not helpful in diagnosing swing faults, but in the case we can see some things.  It’s not the hip turn.  Actually, if hip turn is what you focus on, you’re going to make it worse long term.  If you want to improve, you need to make a disciplined and long term effort to train your mind and body that a longer swing doesn’t produce distance.  You need to make an effort ON EVERY SWING to stop at waist high and have no bend in your right elbow for Weeks and even months, until you see below.  Anything else is a bandaid.  This is like losing weight.  There’s all sorts of effort and you see very little, if any noticeable short term gain,  

67B178F9-E099-4723-AE7E-C648C5E82B26.png

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Thank you Monte, I thought that might be the case and I appreciate the feedback. I am on the course Sunday so if you don't mind I could take a few videos then? On the whole I think this is a fair reflection of my swing but better to see it actually working.

 

With over swings is it as simple as just shortening? What I mean is, is there any faults I can focus on that cause it. I've tried that in the past but my timing is always way out when I do it!

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@tshirttan408

 

Good morning. I would like to add that you need to firm up your right leg, imo even on practice swings. Many pros do nice flowing practice swings mostly focusing on swing mechanics as opposed to the real engine that drives the swing, tension from the ground up. This gives the impression that they just get into a relaxed position at the top and then swing away somehow generating so much clubhead speed by some pure magic of mechanics and hand movement. Bryson Dechambreau on the other hands has a real practice swing where you can see the tension. Even his abbreviated takeaway before starting his swing shows he is letting tension drive his swing. In fact it also demonstrates an easy way to generate power - turn the left shoulder in to start keeping the hands low and when turned far enough push the left shoulder back against both legs - this will adduct the left shoulder and also allow the hands to feel really connected. If you don't let the tension go in your legs, ie you resist the whole time from there it's bombs away.

 

Another couple of pointers that could be useful in the setup are as follows. At address take your normal position and put a club along the two back hip bones parallel to the ground and then turn the right knee in the target until the shaft of the club has turned at least 20 degrees to the left. The right leg needs to feel like it is comfortably braced to resist movement. The next setup technique is every bit as important. Turn your left shoulder in so that it is 20 to 30 degrees closed in relation to the back of the hips. Having the shoulder closed in relation to the hips will help start the swing. It may feel odd but it will work. Look at Bobby Jones videos, and there are many other pros that do this as well. 

 

To start the swing just roll the left shoulder in and keep the hands low. The legs will resist and the hips will turn too, in fact you want to feel that the back of the right hip bone is now pointed square to the target and when it does get to this position reach your left shoulder and arms as far away from your body as possible while you feel there is good tension in your legs. Remember we are not trying to hurt ourselves, we are trying to load the elastic tissue in out bodies like a rubber band, if we make it too tight that's not good. The downswing should feel like the same back right hip bone now pushes straight to the target. The legs feel like they are performing a back and forth dance between the feet.

 

Finally at the top of the backswing we should feel that at least part of our back is facing the target. There is no need to go 90 degrees. Also, to envision getting my back to the target using the right muscles I like to imagine myself as a little kid with a puppy in my arms surrounded by a bunch of other kids trying to take it from me. Turning one's back as a kid would in this situation is the closest thing to how the turn in the golf swing should feel imo. Bobby Jones is a perfect example. Turning this way will cause your head to turn, but that's good, sometimes Bobby Jones said he lost sight of the golf ball. Good luck.

"Shirtsleeve" swing technique:

1. Setup: Elbows bent forearms pressed together against shaft slightly forward of center with "Hogan" "active/flexed" leg tension left foot turned out slightly and the right leg slightly farther to the right - weight mostly on balls of feet butt of left hands sits on the top of the grip with very light grip.

2. Swing - W/o disturbing weight distribution of legs and feet lower hands while doing a forward press "swing trigger" then the left upper arm takes over on the backswing, it needs to go out in front of the body then back in front of the chest as the hands trace down initially then up to over the right shoulder "Torres". The goal is to not disturb the pressure of the feet during the initial takeaway.

 

Notes:

1. Only swing thought after swing trigger - extend left arm at shirt sleeve when reaching left hand over right shoulder "Shirtsleeve technique".

2. The upper left arm move "Shirtsleeve technique" can be practiced independently without a club, sitting down for instance

3. The correct feet tension can be felt by doing very short hops on the balls of the feet then holding the same feeling of pressure on the front of the feet and then taking three practice swings with the grip very loose in order to not disturb the same pressure on the feet and on the 3rd swing actively do the "Shirtsleeve" move. From there the swing should be done within a matter of seconds to not lose the feel of the legs resisting, this way this is not a learned technique as much as it is a setup technique.

 

 

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I see too long of a swing and some early extension. I don't battle shanks but when I get too far from the inside or don't get through it properly I start fighting heel hits. 

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2 hours ago, tshirttan408 said:

Thank you Monte, I thought that might be the case and I appreciate the feedback. I am on the course Sunday so if you don't mind I could take a few videos then? On the whole I think this is a fair reflection of my swing but better to see it actually working.

 

With over swings is it as simple as just shortening? What I mean is, is there any faults I can focus on that cause it. I've tried that in the past but my timing is always way out when I do it!

The big reason ams don’t improve is they don’t give their body time to adapt to a new dynamic.  Trying to shorten the swing is hard enough without adding multiple ideas.  Waist high, hit ball.  Things can always be refined later.

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The big reason ams don’t improve is they don’t give their body time to adapt to a new dynamic.  Trying to shorten the swing is hard enough without adding multiple ideas.  Waist high, hit ball.  Things can always be refined later.

 

Thanks Monte. I'll try you no turn cast drill from YouTube and let you know how it works.

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On 10/8/2020 at 12:38 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

The big reason ams don’t improve is they don’t give their body time to adapt to a new dynamic.  Trying to shorten the swing is hard enough without adding multiple ideas.  Waist high, hit ball.  Things can always be refined later.

Backswing stopping when arms reach waist high is probably one of the best, easiest, high impact swing thoughts.

 

Recently started employing this thought with the driver. Always used 

 

-stop backswing when left shoulder reaches chin

Or

-think 3/4

 

Backswing stops when arms reach waist high has been the better than both. And power for days.

Edited by getitdaily
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Just wanted to report back. I tried the no turn cast on the course today and saw some really promising results. Swing was a lot shorter (still going slightly past parallel but early days) and a lot less across the line. Was striking my irons really nicely, some of the purest hits I've had in a long time. Took some getting used to with the woods but after a few low duck hooks started hitting them really nice.

 

I'd also say I felt I had more speed than with my original swing.

 

So just wanted to say thank you for the advice.

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