Project X Cypher.....

[mjbaker80]

Just saw this...subtle Easter egg?  Or, did I totally space this shaft?  
 

Looks like it’s in the 50g range?

 

 

[Bburch4]

What is the Stars and Stripes shaft? 

[double or triple?]

5 minutes ago, Bburch4 said:

What is the Stars and Stripes shaft? 

Us open edition smoke RDX blue

[pdaero]

I've still never heard of the Smoke RDX, let alone Blue - where does that fit within the Hzrdus line of Smoke and Green?

[double or triple?]

44 minutes ago, pdaero said:

I've still never heard of the Smoke RDX, let alone Blue - where does that fit within the Hzrdus line of Smoke and Green?

They haven’t quite announced all the specs on it yet but I believe it was noted in the Titleist Tsi thread that it would be a stock offering so maybe we will find out more soon. 

[elwhippy]

Stock offering equals lower quality? 

[Bunkersarebigcups]

3 minutes ago, elwhippy said:

Stock offering equals lower quality? 

Titleist usually uses aftermarket offerings for their woods, so no "made-for-watered-down" stuff. I doubt they change that.

[belh22]

love the stars and stripes.  rdx should be available in november

[jgreer1421]

I believe there is an article on here....Rafa Cabrera Bello put the RDX blue 60TX in his woods the Monday before the U.S. open....along with 12 other clubs he switched out it also talks about in the article.....bold strategy, but seemed to work out for him.

[Gary Gutful]

I cant de-cypher anything about it.

[double or triple?]

So per instagram story from TM - Smoke Hzrdus RDX Blue has firm handle and tip section but softer mid section "help with the launch and keep the spin down".

[scooterhd2]

FIFTY as in grams?

[Adamjoyce15]

I believe that the blue actually has a bit softer mid and tip section than the black, not just a special edition but a different bend profile - if I heard correctly in a video trottie had on is IG

[Oaks]

Is RDX the PX Version of TZ6?

[QuigleyDU]

Curious about this as well...

[liveagua]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:04 AM, elwhippy said:

Stock offering equals lower quality? 

Don't think of in terms of quality, think of it in terms of durability. Even the Titleist 'made for" shafts aren't the same as the aftermarket. OEM's are worried about the shaft not breaking, so they don't have to deal with the warranty issues, so the walls are thicker and you don't get the maximum performance from the "made for" shaft. 

[TonytheTiger]

We need the Tour X ASAP!!!

[pjc]

Cypher is from the fast and furious franchise.  Is this really where the marketing goes...My Gawd, how cheesy.

[third-times-a-charm]

5 hours ago, liveagua said:

Don't think of in terms of quality, think of it in terms of durability. Even the Titleist 'made for" shafts aren't the same as the aftermarket. OEM's are worried about the shaft not breaking, so they don't have to deal with the warranty issues, so the walls are thicker and you don't get the maximum performance from the "made for" shaft. 

this is the most false thing ever posted on the golf internet ever

[mixxedbag]

On 10/7/2020 at 3:08 AM, Bunkersarebigcups said:

Titleist usually uses aftermarket offerings for their woods, so no "made-for-watered-down" stuff. I doubt they change that.

I like that people have bought into this way of thinking.  The shaft companies and the OEM's work together, thus how many "new" shafts you see come stock/free of charge in a brand new driver launch.  They then list it for a ridiculous amount aftermarket, to give the appearance of a high-value shaft where any aftermarket sales they make are gravy.  It's so obvious, they got asked "is this a real deal shaft?" for so many years, that this is the answer and path of least resistance. 

[liveagua]

On 10/14/2020 at 6:30 PM, third-times-a-charm said:

this is the most false thing ever posted on the golf internet ever

No, it isn't, but thanks for trying to make a salient point. 

[403Golfer]

In relation to "stock" shafts I found this information from the most recent GolfWRX Titleist TSi2/TSi3 review interesting:

 

"With Titleist’s position as a premium golf brand, it is officially eliminating the word “stock” from its vocabulary and replacing it with “featured.”

At Titleist, we are a premium brand and the TSi series woods are a premium performance product. For that reason, we only use real deal aftermarket shafts – not make for “stock shafts.”

Yes, it’s just a name change, but it demonstrates just how far Titleist is willing to go to differentiate itself from its competition—even when it comes to its off the rack featured shaft offerings..."

Edited October 17, 2020 by 403Golfer
Grammar

[Mookieb10]

On 10/14/2020 at 7:32 PM, mixxedbag said:

I like that people have bought into this way of thinking.  The shaft companies and the OEM's work together, thus how many "new" shafts you see come stock/free of charge in a brand new driver launch.  They then list it for a ridiculous amount aftermarket, to give the appearance of a high-value shaft where any aftermarket sales they make are gravy.  It's so obvious, they got asked "is this a real deal shaft?" for so many years, that this is the answer and path of least resistance. 

I’m not claiming with 100% certainty that you are wrong, but I would be willing to bet, with 99% certainty, that you are wrong. How about this, it should not be difficult to disprove, so grab a couple aftermarket shafts and a couple “made for” shafts and have them forensically analyzed. I will lead the class action suit against Acushnet and you can be the named/lead plaintiff for the class. With such a simple, easily provable and clear breach, we’ll be retired in South Beach, doing jello shots off the bar maid in about 4 years. 

[The Mad Bomber]

The first guy that writes an accurate handbook on "How to understand Women" is going to be a billionaire. The guy that finally comes out with proof of which side is right on the "Made for vs Aftermarket" debacle is either going to get his own wing in the Golf Hall of Fame...or end up sleeping next to Jimmy Hoffa.

[mixxedbag]

11 hours ago, Mookieb10 said:

I’m not claiming with 100% certainty that you are wrong, but I would be willing to bet, with 99% certainty, that you are wrong. How about this, it should not be difficult to disprove, so grab a couple aftermarket shafts and a couple “made for” shafts and have them forensically analyzed. I will lead the class action suit against Acushnet and you can be the named/lead plaintiff for the class. With such a simple, easily provable and clear breach, we’ll be retired in South Beach, doing jello shots off the bar maid in about 4 years. 

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I mean.

For instance, years ago, we used to have a Speeder that said "made for Titleist" on it, and the Diamana series and countless others.  In those cases, Titleist asked them to make a shaft for their driver, and at the time, the shaft manufacturer would not be selling that shaft in their catalog.  It then caused both Titleist and the shaft mfg grief and really got the "made for" argument where it is today where people always bring it up.  Have prices changed that much? No.  Have margins changed that much?  Don't have access to OEM books to see their true cost.

Fast forward to today.  There is no longer a made for logo stamped on stock shafts.  K cool, they must be putting premium shafts into their clubs right?  Sure, some of them might be big volume deals.  But why are all of these "brand new" shafts launching along with OEM drivers, seen for the first time?

Titleist 913 (D+ and S+ get introduced in this driver)

Titleist 915 (Rogue 110 and 95 MSI version)

Titleist 917 (New series for D+ and S+)
Countless Callaway drivers same thing (PX Velocity, non-handcrafted options, etc, etc)

Cobra's painted Rogues and Atmos', countless others

How many D+, S+ shafts are getting sold at a custom fitter after-market?  Probably not many, but they would be listed for purchase at a high price.

My point is, when these no upcharge shafts get launched in a driver, and the shaft mfg makes them available to buy in the after-market space, it creates the illusion that it is a real deal shaft.  What "real deal" means anymore is blurred, because shaft mfg's and OEM's have worked together to try to eliminate the bitching about made for shafts. I don't think it's as far-fetched as you think it is.  I get why people get defensive about it, we want to feel like they're offering awesome value to us.  But if they're just inflating the price in the after-market so that that value is now only perceived value?  There's also no way to prove it, due to the shaft manufacturers making all shafts they put into drivers these days available aftermarket.  Yet people have tested "Tensei Pro White" hybrid shafts from the 818 hybrids side to side with the aftermarket version, and say there's no way they're the same.  So no, I'm not trusting the word of any of the companies, it's in their best interest to have us thinking it's a $300 shaft in there, and the shaft mfg's job to sell shafts to the OEM's.

[The Mad Bomber]

I don't know who's right who's right or who's wrong or who puts their shaft where. What I do know is that as recently as last week at my TSi fitting, a very reputable fitter saw me take a couple of swings with my driver and immediately headed over to the "Pro Stock" shaft wall because he ascertained that nothing the Titleist rep. brought was really all that stellar. They have an entire wall of no-upcharge shafts that come with the driver matrix of all the manufacturers. There were DEFINITELY shafts on both walls that looked pretty much identical. I didn't hit them side by side, so I can't say what the differences are other than the shafts from one wall come with your new driver and shafts from the other wall come with a $400+ dent in your wallet. Noticeably absent on the no-upcharge wall was the GD AD-DI, but there were a half dozen on the Pro Stock wall. Who the $*!% knows...

Edited October 20, 2020 by The Mad Bomber

[okta]

I will preface this with I don’t have any inside knowledge at all or detailed knowledge of how golf equipment is made but rather general manufacturing and business knowledge. 
 

Simply put the consumers, aka us, hated a lot on made for shafts. We want value and want to pretend that we’re getting a $3-400 shaft in our new $500 driver. The economics of this simply make no sense. 
 

I think the answer lies in dispelling a few myths that I’ve observed.
 

1) The majority of shafts aren’t expensive to manufacturer, there are exceptions to this as some shafts use extremely expensive materials. Research, development and frankly low numbers lead to high costs. 

 

2) Club Manufacturers that buy up shafts in the tens of thousands significantly reduce costs. This, in the right way, can give you a very high performing product at a lower cost (see PINGs model) and in the wrong way give you older designs with lower quality materials or similar recycled products with a new paint job (HZRDUS anyone?).

 

3) All businesses are out to make money. Let’s say cobra doubles their sales making about $50-100 on each driver. Let’s make up an imaginary sales amount of 10000 units to 20000 units. They’re making an extra $500,000-1,000,000 on this. Now if they got there by replacing a shaft that cost them $10 with one that cost them $100 now you’re looking at losing $500,000 to making nothing more.
 

4) Simply put, they aren’t putting truly expensive shafts in their products especially when the average golfer has no idea between a $50 Prolaunch and a $500 Ventus. If your job is to maximize profit and your average customer can’t tell the difference between a cheap and expensive part and there’s no discernible risk on the durability front why in the world would you go expensive? You’re going as cheap as you can get away with. 
 

5) Does an expensive shaft truly make a difference? For very good to elite golfers? Yes. Absolutely, it’s a game of inches. For the average golfer, hell no. You’re better off getting properly fit for weight, flex and EI profile. Sell the made for shaft in your driver, get an older version that matches your swing and use the difference on lessons or beers.

[The Mad Bomber]

Little fuel on the fire...head over to TXG's Youtube channel to see a comparison between the "Ventus" Black TaylorMade puts in the SIM and the Aftermarket Ventus Velicore from the ProStock wall.

[mixxedbag]

31 minutes ago, The Mad Bomber said:

Little fuel on the fire...head over to TXG's Youtube channel to see a comparison between the "Ventus" Black TaylorMade puts in the SIM and the Aftermarket Ventus Velicore from the ProStock wall.

There's no hiding the fact that one is "made for".

[mjbaker80]

Yup.  Very well known and not concealed that the stock Ventus in TM woods doesn’t have Velocore.

Edited October 22, 2020 by mjbaker80