Flagstick gimmes?

[wkndhckr]

Last week my playing partner hit the flag stick on a super long putt and we all agreed it was holed because had the flag stick not been in it would have dropped and we had to leave the stick in.

 

That night I thought about it and flag stick can stay in this year. If the cup is not altered and there's nothing stopping the ball from falling deep into the cup, no concessions should be made for hitting the flag stick. Yet i've seen this happen many times through covid.

 

I hate to be that guy, but on hole 1 I'm going to start pointing out to the group that the hole is otherwise unaltered and if the ball jumps out it's not due to covid. This admittedly punishes the putter who drives the ball to lessen the break and is less impactful to the putter who perfectly drops the ball over the edge. It's almost as if before putting, you need to "call" the shot (like using the backboard on free throw) to warn the partners that you "would have" taken the flag out but can't and this putt may ricochet out.

 

Has anyone else seen a little too much leniency with the stick over the past few months?

[LeoLeo99]

USGA has clearly defined what holed means.  Some of the guys I play with think and say the same as your friends.   But we're not playing for anything.  

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, wkndhckr said:

Last week my playing partner hit the flag stick on a super long putt and we all agreed it was holed because had the flag stick not been in it would have dropped and we had to leave the stick in.

 

That night I thought about it and flag stick can stay in this year. If the cup is not altered and there's nothing stopping the ball from falling deep into the cup, no concessions should be made for hitting the flag stick. Yet i've seen this happen many times through covid.

 

I hate to be that guy, but on hole 1 I'm going to start pointing out to the group that the hole is otherwise unaltered and if the ball jumps out it's not due to covid. This admittedly punishes the putter who drives the ball to lessen the break and is less impactful to the putter who perfectly drops the ball over the edge. It's almost as if before putting, you need to "call" the shot (like using the backboard on free throw) to warn the partners that you "would have" taken the flag out but can't and this putt may ricochet out.

 

Has anyone else seen a little too much leniency with the stick over the past few months?

 

How can you tell if a ball would have sunk had the pin not been there? Well, in essence you cannot so the ball is not holed.

 

There have been various covid-rules allowing that kind of fiddling but you need to know whether those 'rules' are valid on your course. OR you agree with your friends before the round how you will deal with such issues.

 

FWIW, IMO the easiest, best and most coherent way is to play by the Rules of Golf. They are uniform around the globe and easily verified from various sources.

[hacker49]

There is a thread somewhere on this forum about the new rule allowing the flag to remain (pre-covid) and the affect was very minimal. It basically said the times it hurt was offset by the times it helped. So no concessions should be allowed, IMO.

[Newgs]

I have had some friends say something like this as well but if it is not in the hole then it is not in the hole...

[wkndhckr]

I remember the adjustment. In or out? Are we faster now or slower? Whatever that is, either way it seems many have lumped covid in and used it as an excuse to count hammered putts as holed. 

 

I can agree to the pool noodle holes where the ball is not permitted to fall into the cup and basically rolls through the hole or god forbid the cup is upside down. that is a judgement call for the foursome. 

 

"I would have taken the flag out but I can't bc covid so that counts"

I've heard this several times during the pandemic so I was curious if you all are hearing it too. 

 

[cval]

It is not just keeping the flag in but having the cup upside or the hole altered in some other way.

 

Just keeping in the flag to a normal hole should not count.

[llewol007]

That would not of counted in my book. Even on television some of the pros opt to keep the flag stick in but you still have to hole the thing. 

[2bGood]

No reason to count them. We don't at our club. The USGA did put out guidance for handicap purposes you can count them as holed when the hole is altered (all the same that does not mean it is holed of the purposes of a match). Note that just having the flag stick in, does not meet the description of an altered hole. So your buddy that bounced off the flag can't count it as holed when he posts his score.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rulesarticles/covid-19-rules-and-handicapping-faqs.html

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by 2bGood

[Augster]

Leaving the stick in has been legal since 1/1/19. WAY before COVID. 
 

What did you guys do last year when it hit the stick? Count it then also?

 

Ridiculous. 
 

When they ease the restrictions and allow pulling the flagstick at your course, pull the stick every time. We’ve been allowed to pull the sticks since June and it is heavenly. 

[Colin L]

And do these guys count it as holed if by chance they hit the top of the flagstick with an overly enthusiastic wedge shot? 

[golfandtennisfan]

Our regular groups would definitely not count them as it is either in or out. I agree that the hurting examples are balanced out by the ones that help. Probably doesn't matter in a real casual game but the slippery slope always seems to slowly work its way in.

[Pepperturbo]

Since Covid, here in SOCA sticks are left in and what looks to be some sort of ring around the pin keeps the ball from dropping deep into the cup, like before Covid.  The ring sets the ball up making it easy for us to retrieve the ball.  That ring is suppose to be set deep enough to allow the ball drop at least 3/4 ball depth into the cup, but sometimes that doesn't happen.  Having the pin in has no bearing on how the spacer affects a putt.

 

I suspect when cups are placed in the morning, attention to cup and ring depth detail is getting sloppy.  I can't count how many times I've seen the ball rolling at a drop pace, roll right over the cup, not touching the pin, because that ring wasn't set deep enough. 

 

During my last two rounds I had that happen multiple times.  Excellent pace putts that rolled right over the cup that otherwise should have dropped.  Everyone thought the ring allowed ball momentum to keep it rolling over the cup, so they gave the putts to me.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Pepperturbo